[Freeptube]

men nowadays are not like the sahaba and khulafa' alrashideen (rarely) so nope you don't win. if men WERE then women wouldn't really have that much of a problem regarding this.

Well, women today are not like the Sahabiyaat either for us to stick with just that one perfect wife, so we're even on that front.

[Tapupah]

Well, women today are not like the Sahabiyaat either for us to stick with just that one perfect wife, so we're even on that front.

Well, its much easier for us to be like sahabiyaat and there are other ways for a woman to be the perfect wife too. We're not even! I still win!

And if your wife isn't perfect.... wait a sec you said marrying other wives for the man to satisfy his desires now we're talking about deen!?

[Freeptube]

Well, its much easier for us to be like sahabiyaat and there are other ways for a woman to be the perfect wife too. We're not even! I still win!

And there are other ways for a man to be perfectly fair to his wives, so no, we're still even.

And if your wife isn't perfect.... wait a sec you said marrying other wives for the man to satisfy his desires now we're talking about deen!? Of course deen is a part of that. If a man isn't satisfied with one wife alone and fulfills the criteria for taking another wife, it is better for him to marry and find a halaal means of satisfaction to protect his deen.

[Tapupah]

And there are other ways for a man to be perfectly fair to his wives, so no, we're still even.

Of course deen is a part of that. If a man isn't satisfied with one wife alone and fulfills the criteria for taking another wife, it is better for him to marry and find a halaal means of satisfaction to protect his deen.

Yeah, but you were saying we're not like the sahabiyaat either so b4 you were obviously talking about our deen, not yours. (since I was comparing you guys to the sahaba) i lost track if we're even or not..... wait, no we're not.

Well he should be satisfied. He should work hard so he could get hur al3een in jannah () instead of just fulfilling his desires in this dunya. But if a man can't control himself () and one wife isn't enough then thats up to him and his wife(which I feel sorry for). But she can still put 'no polygamy' in the contract just like the questionor asked in the first place.

[Pedsshuth]

Hm, interesting discussion. I'll have to agree with br al-Mufakkir on this one.

We women, with all our jealousy and possessiveness, which YES s natural, also have to realize that a man's desires are natural too. Allah gave these to us and we have to deal with these feelings.

coincidently yesterday my husband was gone somewhere, so when one of my students asked where, the other teacher said "sotan". the student asked what it meant so I replied "second wife", to which the student exclaimed, "Astaghfirullah!"

Now this is the attitude even youngsters have now! polygyny, a sunnah, such a taboo that it receives and Astaghfirullah!

[Tapupah]

Hm, interesting discussion. I'll have to agree with br al-Mufakkir on this one.

We women, with all our jealousy and possessiveness, which YES s natural, also have to realize that a man's desires are natural too. Allah gave these to us and we have to deal with these feelings.

coincidently yesterday my husband was gone somewhere, so when one of my students asked where, the other teacher said "sotan". the student asked what it meant so I replied "second wife", to which the student exclaimed, "Astaghfirullah!"

Now this is the attitude even youngsters have now! polygyny, a sunnah, such a taboo that it receives and Astaghfirullah!

I can't believe it!!!!!!! you out of everyone betrayed me!!! .. (lol)

Okay, so we both have diff natural feelings so we should equal out - : a man satisfies himself with his wife, and the wife will do all she can to keep him happy, they have their own kids... there! life isn't fair anyway so thats why our main goal is to just try our best to follow all that Allah (SWT) commands us and therefore we will be rewarded in Jannah with all that we desire. We deal with them by evening out our feelings between each other.

But I'm not saying Astaghfirullah about it lol I understand why Allah (SWT) allowed it in Islam. Maybe after I'm 30 or 40 and I have a stable family in both deen and finance, I'll even encourage him to marry women who are in need. But not for his desires, because if I marry someone who doesn't think I'm enough, then he can go out and look for several who are.

[Freeptube]

Yeah, but you were saying we're not like the sahabiyaat either so b4 you were obviously talking about our deen, not yours. (since I was comparing you guys to the sahaba) i lost track if we're even or not..... wait, no we're not.

You started the comparison with Sahaba, not me. Both the men and women of our time are equally flawed. So that does nothing to negate my argument.

Well he should be satisfied. He should work hard so he could get hur al3een in jannah () instead of just fulfilling his desires in this dunya. If that was the case, why did Allah made polygamy lawful in the first place? And that too with not many restrictions? Ta'addud-e-azwaaj is in the fitrah of man. Try as you might to explain it away, but men, generally speaking, are polygamous by nature, just as women are possessive and jealous by nature.

But if a man can't control himself () Why should he control himself when Allah has already given him a lawful means to fulfill those desires? Why would he restrict himself from that which Allah has made halaal for him?

and one wife isn't enough then thats up to him and his wife(which I feel sorry for). What is there to feel sorry about?

But she can still put 'no polygamy' in the contract just like the questionor asked in the first place. Perhaps. But then again, we all know what happened when the Messenger of Allah , in order to please his wives, prohibited for himself that which Allah made permissible:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
66:1 O PROPHET! Why dost thou, out of a desire to please [one or another of] thy wives, impose [on thyself] a prohibition of something that God has made lawful to thee? But God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace

[Freeptube]

And now when men go out and marry for their desires, the kids get messed up, the wife gets messed up, because the man isn't handling it right. And I know about this because I know a few men who went out to satisfy their desires and their sons back home ended up in jail with drug abuse and their wife can't handle it. But I'm not saying all men are like that -- but you have to agree that its a very hard task for a man to juggle out fairly

I know you didn't mean it to be, but that sounds like a gross generalization and doesn't help your point one bit, because the same can be said about men who have one wife as well.

i dont think al-mufakkir is still here he prob got sick of me and left lol. Internet connection's been acting up, but I am still here. At least for a few more minutes anyway.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Of course I know one of the reasons for marriage is to provide a halal way to satisfy sexual desire, but what is your evidence for that being a sufficient reason for him to take a second wife (just to satisfy sexual desire for more than one woman)?. Also, I made my statement then clearly asked "Is that correct?" I did not say or imply that that is correct. Thats the whole reason why I asked the question, because there are plenty of brothers and sisters on SF who are more knowledgeable on the subject. So correcting me is sufficient.

What is your evidence for this? If a man has the means to support more than one wife and treat them justly, he can take a second, third and fourth wife, even if it is just to satisfy his sexual desire. After all, isn't that one of the main reasons why Allah and His Messenger encouraged marriage in the first place - so that it provides man a lawful means for fulfilling his natural urges? Islam makes man responsible for his pleasures. So if he wants to take multiples wives, he must also be prepared to face the responsibilities that come with it.



Again, I would like to see your basis for this conclusion. As long as the man is just and has the means, nothing in the Shari'ah has prohibited him from taking more than one wife.

[Tapupah]

If that was the case, why did Allah made polygamy lawful in the first place? And that too with not many restrictions? Ta'addud-e-azwaaj is in the fitrah of man. Try as you might to explain it away, but men, generally speaking, are polygamous by nature, just as women are possessive and jealous by nature.



Why should he control himself when Allah has already given him a lawful means to fulfill those desires? Why would he restrict himself from that which Allah has made halaal for him?



What is there to feel sorry about?



Perhaps. But then again, we all know what happened when the Messenger of Allah , in order to please his wives, prohibited for himself that which Allah made permissible:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
66:1 O PROPHET! Why dost thou, out of a desire to please [one or another of] thy wives, impose [on thyself] a prohibition of something that God has made lawful to thee? But God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace

Polygamy was not only made lawful just for a man to please himself with it - though men can use it that way.

You're wrong there. Not all women are jealous actually. There are women out there who have no problem with their husband marrying other wives. Some actually like it. Just the same, not all men are polygamous. Some think just one special wife is enough.

Possessive?! We are not possessive! lol.. it can also be said that men are dissatisfied

"Why should he control himself when Allah has already given him a lawful means to fulfill those desires? Why would he restrict himself from that which Allah has made halaal for him?"

Okay.... you got me there... I've heard that phrase a billion times. Well, if he truly loves his wife he wouldn't need another one. And I know you're going to say "fulfilling his 'desire' doesn't meant he doesn't truly love his wife" but if you look at it this way, it does: he gets married with his wife, she's all his, no other man can see her, she does her best to always be there for him only and be the best wife and mom, then he brings another lady into their life because she doesn't satisfy him. There are many things that are lawful but why go there if that's really not an important purpose of life? BUT AGAIN: if he really needs another wife and he'll go into zina if he doesn't get married, I'm not saying it's haram!


يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

That ayah does not specifically adress polygamy!! So you're saying that a man can go out despite his what his (first) wife thinks and marry (an)other lady(s)?


"What is there to feel sorry about? "

Sorry, that probably sounded wrong, it was just my opinion = I wouldn't mind if my future husband would want to marry another lady to help her out .. but not if he doesn't think I'm enough. I may be wrong, but thats my view. I apologize.

[Tapupah]

...and doesn't help your point one bit, because the same can be said about men who have one wife as well.

No it can't actually because if he has one wife then those are his only kids so he has no excuse not to be there for them (focus on them). On the other hand, if he has another wife (or others) then he's going to have so many different kids going through the different phases in life in all different times. While one's going through the difficult teenage years, the other is still scared of the monster in the dark and needs her daddy. Only good Islamic and awesome men can handle that. And to top it off, each wife wants her attention as well. If you can handle that, then go ahead..(to the general lol not to you specifically)

btw glad i didn't drive you away

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Jazakallah sister ninjapro for understanding

To the other brother, not recommended does not mean anything other than "not recommended" saying it "implies something bad" would be a missunderstanding.

It is clear that if the husband cannot be fair and equal between them, it is BEST that he keep one wife. There are reasons for a man marrying multiple wives stated clearly in the Quran and as far as I can understand, none of those reasons are because one wife doesn't fulfill his sexual desires.

Here's part of another post regarding this subject:
No where in the Qur'an is it allowed to marry more than one wife for personal satisfaction. The verse regarding polygamy is set in the clear context of taking care of orphaned children. It specifies the only reasoning behind marriage to more than one woman:


Surah 4 - An-Nisa (Women), Verses 1 to 4

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالا كَثِيرًا وَنِسَاءً وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا

"People, be mindful of your Lord, who created you from a single soul, and from it created its mate and from the pair of them spread countless men and women. Be mindful of Allah, in whose name you ask one another of what is in the womb, Allah is always watching over you". (4:1)

وَآتُوا الْيَتَامَى أَمْوَالَهُمْ وَلا تَتَبَدَّلُوا الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ وَلا تَأْكُلُوا أَمْوَالَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَالِكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوبًا كَبِيرًا

"Give orphans their property, do not replace their good things with the bad, and do not consume their property with your own. That is a serious crime". (4:2)

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَى وَثُلاثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلا تَعُولُوا

"If you fear that you will not be just/equitable to the orphans, then marry as permissible for you, women, two, three or four. But if you fear you will not be equitable, then one or to whom you are committed to by oath. That is better so that you do not deviate from the right course". (4:3)

[Tapupah]

Jazakallah sister ninjapro for understanding

.......

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَى وَثُلاثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلا تَعُولُوا

"If you fear that you will not be just/equitable to the orphans, then marry as permissible for you, women, two, three or four. But if you fear you will not be equitable, then one or to whom you are committed to by oath. That is better so that you do not deviate from the right course". (4:3)

That's the verse I was looking for!!! Thanks for bringing it up sis.

No problem.

But the brother does have some good points, and the debate could go on forever. At the end it'll always be a matter of will, understanding, and opinions.

[Freeptube]

Of course I know one of the reasons for marriage is to provide a halal way to satisfy sexual desire, but what is your evidence for that being a sufficient reason for him to take a second wife (just to satisfy sexual desire for more than one woman)?

I believe you need evidence for proving something is impermissible, not if it is permissible. To my knowledge, if a man fulfills the basic criteria for taking more than one wife (having the means to support them and being just with all of them), nothing in the Qur'an and the Sunnah discourages him from doing so, even if it is only for the purpose of fulfilling his sexual desires. After all, if that can be an acceptable reason for marrying one wife, why can't it be the same for two, three or four wives, especially when Allah has made it lawful for us?

[Natashasuw]

Interesting thread.

A man wants a second wife when:
1. His 1st wife is not able to give him children
2. His 1st wife is not a good muslimah
3. His 1st wife is not up to his standards
4. Because it's a common thing in their culture (in some places of the world most of the men have multiple wives)
5. Her husband doesn't lower his gaze, when watching tv, going on the internet, on the road, at home... his sexual desires are stimulated and his wife who might not look like the next top model is not attended and liked for that reason.
6. Because of his nature, some men are born with extra hormones, for which 1 wife is just not enough!

As much i hate the thought of a second wife, may Allah never make my husband even intend on marring another or having a liking for another woman(Ameen), these are the facts and we have to face our fears when the time comes.

May Allah give sabr, and istiqamat to all those 1st wives... It must be hard no matter how much they get used to the idea.

[Tapupah]

Interesting thread.

A man wants a second wife when:
1. His 1st wife is not able to give him children
2. His 1st wife is not a good muslimah
3. His 1st wife is not up to his standards
4. Because it's a common thing in their culture (in some places of the world most of the men have multiple wives)
5. His husabnd doesn't lower his gaze, when watching tv, going on the internet, on the road, at home... his sexual desires are stimulated and his wife who might not look like the next top model is not attended and liked for that reason.
6. Because of his nature, some men are born with extra hormones, for which 1 wife is just not enough!

As much i hate the thought of a second wife, may Allah never make my husband even intent on marring another or having a liking for another woman(Ameen), these are the facts and we have to face our fears when the time comes.

May Allah give sabr, and istiqamat to all those 1st wives... It must be hard no matter how much they get used to the idea.

haha you summed up all what we've been arguing about for 3 pages in one post love how you sorted it out sis.

And I'm with you... Ameen!

....

is that your website?! mashallah it's great!!

[Freeptube]

Polygamy was not only made lawful just for a man to please himself with it - though men can use it that way.

Like I said, polygamy in Islam is not for men to just go wild. It comes with its own burden and share of greater responsibilities. If the man is ready to pay that price for his pleasures, what's wrong with it?

You're wrong there. Not all women are jealous actually. There are women out there who have no problem with their husband marrying other wives. Some actually like it. But none who aren't jealous of their co-wives. And if not jealousy, there most certainly is competition between them.

Just the same, not all men are polygamous. Some think just one special wife is enough. Then you don't know men. We only say one wife is enough because don't want to sleep on the sofa and want our breakfast ready in the morning.

Possessive?! We are not possessive! lol.. it can also be said that men are dissatisfied One thing's for sure - if there is nothing stopping a man from taking a second wife, he most definitely will. Things such as limited financial means, social stigma and risking harmonious relations with his first wife are some of the reasons why men say they are 'happy' with just one wife.

Okay.... you got me there... I've heard that phrase a billion times. Well, if he truly loves his wife he wouldn't need another one. And I know you're going to say "fulfilling his 'desire' doesn't meant he doesn't truly love his wife" but if you look at it this way, it does: he gets married with his wife, she's all his, no other man can see her, she does her best to always be there for him only and be the best wife and mom, then he brings another lady into their life because she doesn't satisfy him. There are many things that are lawful but why go there if that's really not an important purpose of life? BUT AGAIN: if he really needs another wife and he'll go into zina if he doesn't get married, I'm not saying it's haram! I would talk about this in more detail but I feel we're skirting the limits of modesty on this discussion as is so all I'll say is: a man can easily get attracted to another woman even if he is fully satisfied with his current wife.

That ayah does not specifically adress polygamy!! So you're saying that a man can go out despite his what his (first) wife thinks and marry (an)other lady(s)? No, it does not address polygamy directly but it does address making something impermissible (no polygamy clause in marriage contracts) which Allah has made permissible (polygamy).

Sorry, that probably sounded wrong, it was just my opinion = I wouldn't mind if my future husband would want to marry another lady to help her out .. but not if he doesn't think I'm enough. I may be wrong, but thats my view. I apologize. No need to apologize. I understand what you're saying. I'm not married either...and I hope my future wife doesn't see this.

[Freeptube]

4. Because it's a common thing in their culture (in some places of the world most of the men have multiple wives)
5. His husabnd doesn't lower his gaze, when watching tv, going on the internet, on the road, at home... his sexual desires are stimulated and his wife who might not look like the next top model is not attended and liked for that reason.
6. Because of his nature, some men are born with extra hormones, for which 1 wife is just not enough!

Bingo! I didn't want to say it directly because I feared coming off as crude and inappropriate, but now that you've broken the ice, yes, that is exactly what I mean with a man marrying more than wife for fulfilling his desires.

[Freeptube]

It is clear that if the husband cannot be fair and equal between them, it is BEST that he keep one wife. There are reasons for a man marrying multiple wives stated clearly in the Quran and as far as I can understand, none of those reasons are because one wife doesn't fulfill his sexual desires.

"If the husband cannot be fair and equal between them" is the key phrase here. If he can be, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Here's part of another post regarding this subject:
No where in the Qur'an is it allowed to marry more than one wife for personal satisfaction. The verse regarding polygamy is set in the clear context of taking care of orphaned children. It specifies the only reasoning behind marriage to more than one woman:

Surah 4 - An-Nisa (Women), Verses 1 to 4

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالا كَثِيرًا وَنِسَاءً وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا

"People, be mindful of your Lord, who created you from a single soul, and from it created its mate and from the pair of them spread countless men and women. Be mindful of Allah, in whose name you ask one another of what is in the womb, Allah is always watching over you". (4:1)

وَآتُوا الْيَتَامَى أَمْوَالَهُمْ وَلا تَتَبَدَّلُوا الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ وَلا تَأْكُلُوا أَمْوَالَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَالِكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوبًا كَبِيرًا

"Give orphans their property, do not replace their good things with the bad, and do not consume their property with your own. That is a serious crime". (4:2)

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَى وَثُلاثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلا تَعُولُوا

"If you fear that you will not be just/equitable to the orphans, then marry as permissible for you, women, two, three or four. But if you fear you will not be equitable, then one or to whom you are committed to by oath. That is better so that you do not deviate from the right course". (4:3) With all due respect, this explanation is wrong and can be proven wrong by the example of Sahaba and Khulafa-e-Rashideen who married multiple women and not for the sake of taking care of orphaned children. Otherwise, the Shari'ah would have forbidden us from taking virgin women as second, third or fourth wives and we both know that is not the case.

[Tapupah]

Like I said, polygamy in Islam is not for men to just go wild. It comes with its own burden and share of greater responsibilities. If the man is ready to pay that price for his pleasures, what's wrong with it?

But none who aren't jealous of their co-wives. And if not jealousy, there most certainly is competition between them.

Then you don't know men. We only say one wife is enough because don't want to sleep on the sofa and want our breakfast ready in the morning.

One thing's for sure - if there is nothing stopping a man from taking a second wife, he most definitely will. Things such as limited financial means, social stigma and risking harmonious relations with his first wife are some of the reasons why men say they are 'happy' with just one wife.

I would talk about this in more detail but I feel we're skirting the limits of modesty on this discussion as is so all I'll say is: a man can easily get attracted to another woman even if he is fully satisfied with his current wife.

No, it does not address polygamy directly but it does address making something impermissible (no polygamy clause in marriage contracts) which Allah has made permissible (polygamy).

No need to apologize. I understand what you're saying. I'm not married either...and I hope my future wife doesn't see this.

I can barely keep my eyes open and I dont know how you quote parts and reply so im jst going to copy and paste everything you wrote and reply to it that way

Alritee...

"Like I said, polygamy in Islam is not for men to just go wild. It comes with its own burden and share of greater responsibilities. If the man is ready to pay that price for his pleasures, what's wrong with it?"

Nothing, bro. Except that his wife might murder him in sleep. (I'll advise a gun, not a knife sis.)

"But none who aren't jealous of their co-wives. And if not jealousy, there most certainly is competition between them."

Maybe... maybe not. Some are very close friends with them actually. I know.

"I would talk about this in more detail but I feel we're skirting the limits of modesty on this discussion as is so all I'll say is: a man can easily get attracted to another woman even if he is fully satisfied with his current wife. "

No comment. I guess I'll never understand men. And anyway he shouldn't be looking at other women to get attracted to them (like onlyfaith said) and if he does and gets the idea he needs to be with them he should ask his wife to slap him so he'll wake up. and I know the argument will continue ..... so you know what? just go ahead marry all the women in the universe. (not that I encourage such an idea) im jst sure it will not happen to me, inshallah.

"No, it does not address polygamy directly but it does address making something impermissible (no polygamy clause in marriage contracts) which Allah has made permissible (polygamy)."

here we are again. im not making it impermissible btw. im talking reality. so you're still saying a man can go out and get married without his wife's permission?

"... We only say one wife is enough because don't want to sleep on the sofa and want our breakfast ready in the morning."

Then I think they fully deserve to sleep on the sofa and have cold cereal for breakfast

"I'm not married either...and I hope my future wife doesn't see this"

Oh lord

"One thing's for sure - if there is nothing stopping a man from taking a second wife, he most definitely will. Things such as limited financial means, social stigma and risking harmonious relations with his first wife are some of the reasons why men say they are 'happy' with just one wife. "

And you would know.....?


Im going to bed so I won't be replying anymore for now. nice arguing with you! salam.