[Tinasblue]

Brothers and sisters, I have been on this forum for a short amount of time and I have noticed a few patterns.

If one wants to understand what is the issue with the Muslim Ummah as a whole today (worldwide), one needs to look no further than this very forum you are reading this post on.

People never agree on anything. The most simplest of things turn into huge arguments extending a simple thread into 100's of pages full of arguments and name calling.

Just make a thread saying something... anything at all (you can even say something as simple as "My name is _____"), and wait for someone to find a way to call you "Ahal-ul-bidat", "deobandi", "barelvi", "Quranist", etc, etc, etc. Pick your flavor of the day.

I, much like most of the average members/lurkers on here I'm sure, don't even know what half the words/titles which are used to "insult" each other on here mean... but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they get thrown around with full force like stones.

Once again, if you don't believe me, just browse only the first page of the main forum and you will see the same patterns as evident, thread after thread, page after page, day after day.

, don't get me wrong here, as this is mainly the only forum I frequent these days. However, what I said remains:

If one wants to understand what is the issue with the Muslim Ummah as a whole today, one needs to look no further than this very forum you are reading this post on.

Pretend if the interaction which takes place on this forum was happening in the "real world" instead... as in it was all offline, face to face, in all different parts of the world. Well, there you have what we know as the Muslim Ummah today.

Think about it.



May Allah give us the will & the ability to get along with each other and treat each other like blood brothers and sisters, as was the case during the time of Rasul-Allah & remained just the same for some time afterwards when the Sahaba were still around. Ameen.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. All that is well & good is from Allah , any and all mistakes & misrepresentation are solely my own.

[kertUtire]

brother.

I guess i am a part of the mess you have mentioned. I m sorry about that. Sometimes the emotions just fly.
will be careful in the future.

for the reminder bro.

[theatadug]

Brothers and sisters, I have been on this forum for a short amount of time and I have noticed a few patterns.

If one wants to understand what is the issue with the Muslim Ummah as a whole today (worldwide), one needs to look no further than this very forum you are reading this post on.

People never agree on anything. The most simplest of things turn into huge arguments extending a simple thread into 100's of pages full of arguments and name calling.

Just make a thread saying something... anything at all (you can even say something as simple as "My name is _____"), and wait for someone to find a way to call you "Ahal-ul-bidat", "deobandi", "barelvi", "Quranist", etc, etc, etc. Pick your flavor of the day.

I, much like most of the average members/lurkers on here I'm sure, don't even know what half the words/titles which are used to "insult" each other on here mean... but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they get thrown around with full force like stones.

Once again, if you don't believe me, just browse only the first page of the main forum and you will see the same patterns as evident, thread after thread, page after page, day after day.

, don't get me wrong here, as this is mainly the only forum I frequent these days. However, what I said remains:

If one wants to understand what is the issue with the Muslim Ummah as a whole today, one needs to look no further than this very forum you are reading this post on.

Pretend if the interaction which takes place on this forum was happening in the "real world" instead... as in it was all offline, face to face, in all different parts of the world. Well, there you have what we know as the Muslim Ummah today.

Think about it.



May Allah give us the will & the ability to get along with each other and treat each other like blood brothers and sisters, as was the case during the time of Rasul-Allah & remained just the same for some time afterwards when the Sahaba were still around. Ameen.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. All that is well & good is from Allah , any and all mistakes & misrepresentation are solely my own.

Wa'alaikumus salaam wr wb,

Brother, JazakAllah for raising this concern. We've had, do have, and will have our differences. No two minds are alike. We just need to understand how much these differences affect us today, and to what extent do these differences matter.

For example, Differences between ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah, and the ahlul bid'ah like barelvis and ghair muqallideen are inevitable, and in some case, very harsh, but on the outset, if we see this, these very differences should not lead any of us to raise weapons against each other. These are academic differences.

In real life however, we see these differences exceed merely raising weapons; In Pakistan and the whole Muslim world nowadays, these differences actually lead some of us to ally ourselves with the kuffar who are out to take over our lands. Did you know that there were J groups in Pakistan who Simply did not support the Islamic Emirates in 2001 because they were hanafis or they were deobandis? Do you know there was a chancellor of a very renowned darululoom of barelvis in Pakistan who actually took out rallies in favor of Operations against the brothers in the free areas? The enemy has a keen eye, he's even reading every post we make here. We need to understand the limits to which we take our differences.

If you are somehow bothered by the differences ( hey even I am at times ) , don't visit the forum or the general forums section here. That's the only recommendation I can give right now.

To make things simple :

Differences :
1) Have Existed
2) Do Exist
3) Will Exist

What we need to do is :
1) Categorize the nature of difference
2) The severity of the difference
3) The limits these differences should take us to

wassalaam

[Tinasblue]

for all replies.

[UJRonald]

for the reminder my brother. It is impossible for us to agree and see eye to eye on every issue but this should not extend into personal conflict with one another.

Maybe this is an opportune time to watch this brilliant lecture by Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq on this very issue; 'Compassion despite disagreement'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzbq6nOtzyo

[Bletlemof]

I agree bro, we wasting far too much time and energu arguing, not enough time building up our ummah and returning the izza. A page on shiakh ul islam muhammad ibn abdul whahab will mount up 10 pages, its hard to even get one rpely on a charity threda like this:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-number-4-spot

People are not excited by the things that are the most benficial to the ummah, and the shaytaan has caused them to get the most enjoyment from teh most destructive thigns, myself included. im trying to avoid the net these days, master electronic engineering so i can benefit the ummah inshallah, seek knowledge, raise a family, aid any dawah that is worth supporting in teh revival of the ummah inshAllah.

I recommend EVERYONE read this great article inshAllah. I alreday read it but acting upon it is the great jihad that reaps huge fruits when you save about 4 hours every day that you can utilise for far more beneficial things inshAllah:

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-423-4142.htm



Home»Words of Advice»Interpersonal Dealings»Argument Avoidance - A Vital Skill to Cultivate
Argument Avoidance - A Vital Skill to Cultivate Sheikh Salman al-Oadah
Sun, 07/17/2011


It gives me some satisfaction to recall the times I have been able to swallow back my bitterness and restrain my anger when one of my dear brothers (who may not think of me as such) abused me because they disagreed with me on some point. However, I mean it when I say: there are far more things that we have in common than the points of contention in which we disagreed.

I feel happy when I recall how Allah helped me to restrain myself and therefore avoid getting into useless and base arguments, the type that is heated and impassioned, where I would have inevitably stooped – witting or unwitting – to the level of disputing for the sake of my own ego instead of for the truth.

In the heat of the moment, there is a strong impulse to “clarify” the “truth” or “give full disclosure”, or any other justification for mean-hearted and vain disputation. We enter into a wild and barren desert when we let ourselves succumb to that impulse.

The strength of religious conviction – which should make us exemplary, well-mannered individuals and guide our interpersonal dealings in a positive way – unfortunately makes some of us mean hearted, bitter, and resentful to others. Sometimes, their zeal makes them always seek out faults in others or reasons to despise them. They become the type of people everyone else tries to avoid, since everyone expects them to come with questions to interrogate their faith: “What ideology do you subscribe to? What methodology do you follow? Who is your sheikh? What is your stance on such-and-such?”

I remember once when a young man came up to my teacher Salih al-Bulayhi and asked to speak with him in private. My teacher got up and went with him a distance to where the two could talk alone. As soon as they were together, the young man burst out: “I despise you for the sake of Allah!”

My teacher smiled and said: “Now why is that?”

The man said: “Because you say we can pay the Zakah al-Fitr in rice and that we can offer the Tarawih prayer as five units of prayer!”

To this my teacher replied: “Our Prophet (peace be upon him) advised us that when we love someone for Allah’s sake, then we should tell them that we love them. This, we know, is related by Abu Dawud. However, I do not recall where the Prophet said when we hate someone for Allah’s sake, we should tell them that we hate them.”

He wisely averted getting into a dispute on trivial matters that would have done nothing but harden both their hearts.

Avoiding arguments is an excellent skill to master. One of its rewards for is all the time that it saves! It also keeps our hearts clean and our relationships with other people amicable.

I thank Allah that I do not have to struggle very hard to keep my heart clean when others are ill-mannered with me in their disagreements. One way to do this is shrug off their behavior. You might excuse them by saying to yourself: “Some people never learned how to speak to others.”

With time, I learned an even better way: to pray for them. It is good to seek out the times when supplications are most accepted by Allah, and ask Allah to forgive them, show them mercy, and help them to overcome their shortcomings. You will find this lightens the load on your heart. It is good to pray for all Muslims, the knowledgeable among them as well as the ignorant, the righteous as well as the sinners. Indeed, I include all of humanity in my prayers, that Allah puts places the best of them in charge of their affairs and protects them from those who are tyrannical, that He bestows His bounty and favor upon them, and grants them His mercy, clemency, and guidance.

I do not deceive myself into thinking I am immune to being caught off guard by someone’s bad behavior and forget all the good values I have learned, so that I react and speak back at them in my own defense before I have time to recall my own principles. Allah teaches us humility through these experiences, and reminds us that we are still very small students in the school of life. This gives us the occasion to turn to Allah and say: “Glory be to You! Of knowledge We have none, save what You have taught us: In truth it is You who are perfect in knowledge and wisdom.” [Surah al-Baqarah: 32]

And to say: “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, then surely we are of the lost!” [Surah al-A`raf: 23]

When we stumble and forget ourselves, this should make us all the more vigilant to maintain our dignity and composure in the future: to be patient, to pardon and to overlook.

We should turn to Allah who created us and ask Him to purify our hearts and make our inner selves more goodly than our outward appearance; to grant us humility before those who preceded us in knowledge, faith, and deeds; and to never behave arrogantly to anyone, no matter what mistakes we might see them making.

As Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhi (2499) and Sunan Ibn Majah (4251)]

Those who we see making mistakes might have virtues that only Allah knows about in which they surpass many who fancy themselves to be scholars, preachers, and religious leaders. Allah tells us, relating Noah’s words: “I do not say about those whom your eyes hold in mean estimation (that) Allah will never grant them any good-- Allah knows best what is in their souls-- for then most surely I should be of the unjust.” [Surah Hud: 31] .

[veizKinquiz]

To be honest these days it has also become a fashion to give a speech to muslims about how they have different point of views and always arguing. I think muslims will always disagree cause after all we are humans too, when it comes to Qital, helping the community, defending our lands i think we all should not compromise one bbit, but when it comes to salah, bidahs etc i think we will always have differences and which is fine, we just have to remember that we can argue all as much as we can to defend our point of views , but it should all stay in a circle in a limit, and we have to establish this that we will never break the bond of muslims brotherhood based on Fiqhi, and secondary aqeeda issues. Aslong as we are all at one page in primary beliefs, Zarooriyat e Deen, then We should stick together no matter the big fiqhi differences we have.

So i say lets keep discussing and enlightening and warning each other, but lets also pray together when the time for Salah comes, when the time for food comes, when the time for marriage comes, when the time of Eid come, and similarly everyother scenario inour daily life.Lets keep our hearts clean for each other. Lets always think that even though i feel my point of view is correct and the other brother is not so correct, but in the end we are both muslims, and we are brothers in islam, and the worse that will happen is that he might turn out to be following a little less correct ruling, or i might be following a more correct positions in the eyes of Allah, but inshAllah we both will be qubool. One might get a A mark, the other might get an A+.InshAllah as long as no one Fails. So the discussion should be held with the jazba to help each other understand what the better position might be to follow, and to warn against any misguidance, and if a brother accepts well and good if not its fine. Cuz in the end we are still one ummah and when the time for bigger problems and action comes we have to be side by side.

This message is intended towards Hanafis,Shafis, Salafis/ghair muqalid/ahle hdaeeth/non followers of a madhab,Malikis, Hanbalis.
As for Qadiyanis, Shia, Athiests, Chiristians. We all have a common call for you all here to accept islam in the manner the Sahaba did, and you are most welcome to discuss with us anything you would like to get cleared on.

[Hankie]

Asalaam Alaikum

MashAllah this is the best thread I have read. May Allah swt bless you and all of those who have shared their views.

I have noticed that there is a definitive problem - almost like a parasite that lurks in most people and I am included in this unortunately - that if we don't agree with someone then we must automatically attack someone or group of people and we have the audacity to call ourselves Muslims!

A Muslim does not attack but defends himself/ herself.

A Muslim does not backbite but asks for Allah's protection from Shaitan the Accursed and his evil whispers.

A Muslim is a shield for another Muslim

A Muslim does dua for the Ummah.

A Muslim loves for the sake of Allah and hates for the sake of Allah.

I have come accross many threads on this forum that have all sorts of attacks, criticisms, refutations and defences and then counter attacks and defences. Is this what is Islam is? Is this the Sunnah?

There is one thing having a difference of opinion and another thing entirely to attack and criticise someone because they don't agree with your point of view. Is this Islam? Where is the tolerance and understanding?

Muslims need to wake up. The Ummah needs to wake up from its slumber and unite. Islam is Peace and we must be a means of peace and understaning and where that peace is threatend then thi can turn into an iron fist. We must remember that Islam was not spread with the sword but through barakah that Sahabah carried which emnated from their very being however they knew how to use the sword and implemented its use where the need arose. They fought tyranny and evil and ignorance and dispensed justice according the Qur'an and the Sunnah. This was all due to the Prophetic blessings and light that they carried in their hearts, may Allah swt be pleased with them all.

One more thing is that real men don't hide behind internet forums causing fitna and ignornace. Real men iron out their differences face to face.

One action will always cause some sort of reaction.

May Allah swt give us all the understanding and hikmah of how to interact with other people! And may Allah give us the true understanding of His Deen! May Allah send His choicest Peace and blessings on his last and final Messenger Muhammad pbuh and his family and companions and all of his pbuh followers. Ameen.


JazakAllah kher

[Tinasblue]

I made this thread last year and in lieu of some recent things I've read on the forum, this thread popped into my head and I felt that Insha'Allah it could use a bump.

[LarryRda]

I made this thread last year and in lieu of some recent things I've read on the forum, this thread popped into my head and I felt that Insha'Allah it could use a bump.

I for one am glad that you did. Thanks

[JonDopl]

Seems like you're yourself a suroori...







...just joking : D

I understand your point but what is the limit then we should set ? Accept any opinion of the quranist, bid'ati or even callers to shirk and all be treated on the same ground because of "ummah concern" ? May be then SF should not accept anybody that subscribes the forum while propagating his deviant creed here, thus they would be less debate. Some topics should be banned and a relevant link toward SF's official position given imho and Allah knows best.

[BorBitExatini]

I understand your point but what is the limit then we should set ? Accept any opinion of the quranist, bid'ati or even callers to shirk and all be treated on the same ground because of "ummah concern" ? May be then SF should not accept anybody that subscribes the forum while propagating his deviant creed here, thus they would be less debate. Some topics should be banned and a relevant link toward SF's official position given imho and Allah knows best.

You've said what I wanted to say. Also, should we not show those ignorant members that how wrong they are, who shout for so called unity among twelver Shia, Barelwi and Ahlal Sunnah Wal Jamaat?

[Lapsinuibense]

You've said what I wanted to say. Also, should we not show those ignorant members who shout for so called unity among twelver Shia, Barelwi and Ahlal Sunnah Wal Jamaat?

Salaamu alaiykum
Sorry for intruding but I would just like to point out that the spectrum of reaction and da'wah is very wide. Da'wah can be in the form of speech, self practising, handing out leaflets, helping the community etc. There is more ways to react to such statements than to insult or become haste in letting out all the 'ilm in one shot. I'm probably misunderstanding your post (and I guess I'm now open to ridicule and rejection myself ) as I usually do to everyone's but I thought I'd put that in just in case.

[BorBitExatini]

Salaamu alaiykum
Sorry for intruding but I would just like to point out that the spectrum of reaction and da'wah is very wide. Da'wah can be in the form of speech, self practising, handing out leaflets, helping the community etc. There is more ways to react to such statements than to insult or become haste in letting out all the 'ilm in one shot. I'm probably misunderstanding your post (and I guess I'm now open to ridicule and rejection myself ) as I usually do to everyone's but I thought I'd put that in just in case.

Sorry, I skipped some words during typing. By the way, I can show you m-a-n-y examples on the favour of my last post. Some brothers come and start blaming all the muslims for not uniting with Shi'ites. When they are shown proofs, they remain like deaf and the blah blah continues. And what to say about a feminist brother who openly rejects Quranic commands and tries to establish his nonsense claims?

[Lapsinuibense]

Sorry, I skipped some words during typing. By the way, I can show you m-a-n-y examples on the favour of my last post. Some brothers come and start blaming all the muslims for not uniting with Shi'ites. When they are shown proofs, they remain like deaf and the blah blah continues. And what to say about a feminist brother who openly rejects Quranic commands and tries to establish his nonsense claims?

Subhanallah, you're absolutely right. But with all fairness, we shouldn't tackle extremism in one direction with extremism in the other which I've also seen (alhamdullilah not too much in this forum but mainly through watching other people). I guess if we show the middle path, both sides will come to agreement inshallah. That's the beauty of following the middle path - everyone agrees (atleast everyone who's willing to be open-minded and partly sacrificial) Even if the problem is not resolved by following the middle path (i.e. they're a bit arrogant, and you're tempted to force them to realise), stick to it because that will be following Allah and hence will have barakah inshallah (correct me if I'm wrong shaykh).

[vioppyskype]

I understand your point but what is the limit then we should set ? Accept any opinion of the quranist, bid'ati or even callers to shirk and all be treated on the same ground because of "ummah concern" ? May be then SF should not accept anybody that subscribes the forum while propagating his deviant creed here, thus they would be less debate. Some topics should be banned and a relevant link toward SF's official position given imho and Allah knows best.

No matter what, if you look at Sunni forum you will see that they are Bias, They have a lot of contradictions in their method of allowing or disallowing certain things, and the moment something goes against their preconceived notions of what they think is correct, they delete your posts, disallowing outside links, and ban you, even if what you are saying is in agreement with some scholars of Deoband.

On the other hand they do allow deviant creed to be propagated here in the name of Tawassul, you will see many threads people allow istigatha to other than Allah, calling for leniency on the part of Ahlul Sunnah for their shirk in the name of "Differences of opinions."

I think this forum has a specific purpose, and the purpose is to propagate the deobandi Maslak, and as long you don't entirely disagree with them you're okay, however if your from another Madhab and your Madhab just so happens to be against something from theirs instead of actually accepting differences (ones that aren't shirk or bida'a) they result to what I mentioned in the first part.

Alhamdulillah being here taught me a lot of things,all of it came from interacting with the people/Muftis, but I wouldn't say I learned those things in the best possible way, they came from realizing that even those who are supposedly the ones to uphold the higher ground in terms of manners are the first one to label you something that they find disrespectful and start disagreeing with anything you say even if it's from legitimate scholars of Ahlul Sunnah. Which is surely what is wrong with Muslims in real world.

[BorBitExatini]

Subhanallah, you're absolutely right. But with all fairness, we shouldn't tackle extremism in one direction with extremism in the other which I've also seen (alhamdullilah not too much in this forum but mainly through watching other people). I guess if we show the middle path, both sides will come to agreement inshallah. That's the beauty of following the middle path - everyone agrees (atleast everyone who's willing to be open-minded and partly sacrificial) Even if the problem is not resolved by following the middle path (i.e. they're a bit arrogant, and you're tempted to force them to realise), stick to it because that will be following Allah and hence will have barakah inshallah

(I'm not convinced at all by your tactics. Because I'm also a Tablighi.)

Brother, some people do not give any option to stay on the middle path. After showing Akhlaq patiently for a long time when it is found that this guy will never understand because he has pre planned agenda, then it becomes necessary to show some roughness. (Although it shouldn't be done in real life. This is applicable on online forums only.)

Rasulullaah would tolerate patiently personal attacks on him done by ignorant people, plus he would show his great Akhlaq. But in case of attacks on Deen, he wouldn't tolerate. Same was the case of Abu Bakr who declared Jihad against Zakat deniers.

(correct me if I'm wrong shaykh). I'm offended greatly by this line.

[JonDopl]

No matter what, if you look at Sunni forum you will see that they are Bias, They have a lot of contradictions in their method of allowing or disallowing certain things, and the moment something goes against their preconceived notions of what they think is correct, they delete your posts, disallowing outside links, and ban you, even if what you are saying is in agreement with some scholars of Deoband.(...)

I understand what you wrote, and although SF like any forum will inevitably be biased (either in a good or bad way), I agree people with obvious deviant creed are given a free tribune here sometimes without the same leniency for some other topics.

wa

[Lapsinuibense]

(I'm not convinced at all by your tactics. Because I'm also a Tablighi.)

Brother, some people do not give any option to stay on the middle path. After showing Akhlaq patiently for a long time when it is found that this guy will never understand because he has pre planned agenda, then it becomes necessary to show some roughness. (Although it shouldn't be done in real life. This is applicable on online forums only.)

Rasulullaah would tolerate patiently personal attacks on him done by ignorant people, plus he would show his great Akhlaq. But in case of attacks on Deen, he wouldn't tolerate. Same was the case of Abu Bakr who declared Jihad against Zakat deniers.



I'm offended greatly by this line.

Akhi, I'm not tablighi. I would love to go with them and learn from them, but I haven't got the opportunity. Do you think I am ready for it?
I didn't mean anything about that last sentence bro. I just said it because sometimes I say things (like just there - you corrected me) which are wrong and the people also get misguided. I just say what I learnt and because of that I have to make it known that in no way am I following something which would possibly affect (make you doubt) your following of a different thing. Forgive me if I have offended you. I am curious as to what tactics brother. Is it something you learn from experience that you can't really speak of? Don't worry, I won't call you shaykh this time.

[BorBitExatini]

Akhi, I'm not tablighi. I would love to go with them and learn from them, but I haven't got the opportunity. Do you think I am ready for it?
I didn't mean anything about that last sentence bro. I just said it because sometimes I say things (like just there - you corrected me) which are wrong and the people also get misguided. I just say what I learnt and because of that I have to make it known that in no way am I following something which would possibly affect (make you doubt) your following of a different thing. Forgive me if I have offended you. I am curious as to what tactics brother. Is it something you learn from experience that you can't really speak of? Don't worry, I won't call you shaykh this time.

Well... By tactics I've meant a system of convincing someone to make him correct. During giving Dawah, this system plays a vital role on the success. I'm briefing it:
At first, the person is praised for his good virtues.
Secondly, politely he is shown the correct thing.
Finally, apologizing and seeking correction with humble request.

Example: If you go to a local leader who is a muslim (by name), at first start conversation with praising him- Mashallaah, Allaah has made you a leader. You are perfect for this job. You are very skilled etc etc.
Then start saying the greatness of Allaah and remind him about death. Later advise him very politely to be regular in Amaal and to avoid corruption.
Finally apologize and request him for making Du'a.
This strategy is very effective even with arrogant and ignorant people.

Please forgive me for my silly arguments. Remember me in your Du'a. (This part is real. I'm not implementing above mentioned tactics on you.)