[ladleliDypenue]

just wondering

[GeorgeEckland]

Its a form of name-calling. If you are a Sunni against worshipping graves and superstutions, and announce that to some Shias or other groups that allow grave-worship, sooner or later you will be called that without even knowing who Sheikh Imam Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab (may Allah have mercy on his soul) is.

Usually its a response to graveworship, when they cannot defend it, they reply by name calling.

Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdulwahab never brought anything new, but it bothered some so that they accused him of takfeer as they say (lying, of course which is clear in his books), being an agent of the British (who told him tell people to stop worshipping graves lol) . He was just against graveworship that became prevelant at the time and called to return to pure Islam, from Qur'aan and authentic Sunnah, with no "middle man" between a person and Allah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO-r7TQIzbI

[mod note: please do not embed videos]

[BaselBimbooooo]

Salam

I wouldn't recommend using it as the people generally use it as a negative deroagatory term. and the ppl whom it generally refers to will oftne refer to themselves as salafis instead so that's a more fitting term. also it really pisses salafis off when you call them that so, rathaer than offending your brother over nothing it's best to avoid the term.

also wahabie has become such a broad term that in many parts of the world any one with a beard is a salafi (nevermind the fact that it's wajib in the hanafi madhab), or anyone who wishes to live their life according to the sunnah and refuses to listen to music is often looked down upon and labelled "wahabi" by more "balanced" muslims.

[ladleliDypenue]

Its a form of name-calling. If you are a Sunni against worshipping graves and superstutions, and announce that to some Shias or other groups that allow grave-worship, sooner or later you will be called that without even knowing who Sheikh Imam Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab (may Allah have mercy on his soul) is.

Usually its a response to graveworship, when they cannot defend it, they reply by name calling.

Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdulwahab never brought anything new, but it bothered some so that they accused him of takfeer as they say (lying, of course which is clear in his books), being an agent of the British who told him tell people to stop worshipping graves. He was just against graveworship that became prevelant at the time and called to return to pure Islam, from Qur'aan and authentic Sunnah, with no "middle man" between a person and Allah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO-r7TQIzbI

when is was shia i used to think wahabie was to describe a terrorist or something but know i know that any sunni brother can be labeld that thank you for the advise

[GeorgeEckland]

when is was shia i used to think wahabie was to describe a terrorist or something but know i know that any sunni brother can be labeld that thank you for the advise

Most welcome bro.

Heres another video in English.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeeKx...eature=related

[ladleliDypenue]

Most welcome bro.

Heres another video in English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeeKx...eature=related

i dont get how shia scholers say they memorized the quran and all of allahs names but they say wahabi isnt that proof they havent don their studing plus wahab is a good thing so they are complementing me without knowing it lol thank you kafirs

[Bxbhtjnr]

just wondering

It's been discussed before. Read this thread, particularly post #16

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Wahhabbi/page2

[ladleliDypenue]

Salam

I wouldn't recommend using it as the people generally use it as a negative deroagatory term. and the ppl whom it generally refers to will oftne refer to themselves as salafis instead so that's a more fitting term. also it really pisses salafis off when you call them that so, rathaer than offending your brother over nothing it's best to avoid the term.

also wahabie has become such a broad term that in many parts of the world any one with a beard is a salafi (nevermind the fact that it's wajib in the hanafi madhab), or anyone who wishes to live their life according to the sunnah and refuses to listen to music is often looked down upon and labelled "wahabi" by more "balanced" muslims.

i wouldent recomd it eathor now

[paratayoma]

As Salamu Alaykum

The term wahhabi was used by various ulama of the past who have wrote refutations and spoken out against them including the great Maliki Mufassir of Quran Imam Sawi. Wahhabis are a deviant group that is not part of mainstream Sunni Islam. To accuse traditional Sunnis of grave worship is basically making takfir of us. I'm sure you heard the hadith of calling a Muslim a kafir, so If I were you I would watch what I say. Yusuf Estes is a Salafi so his videos are irrelevant.

[GeorgeEckland]

As Salamu Alaykum

To accuse traditional Sunnis of grave worship is basically making takfir of us. I'm sure you heard the hadith of calling a Muslim a kafir, so If I were you I would watch what I say. Yusuf Estes is a Salafi so his videos are irrelevant.

See what I mean, bro Sunni from Iraq?

First of all, theres a difference between تكفير العين takfir al ain , and takfir al naw' تكفير النوع . Thats why in the first video it mentions Sheikh Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahab, not making takfeer ain on anyone of those who do tawaf around graves even and worshipping them, although the action is kufr, they arent automatically considered kafir. Because takfir is a very dangerous serious issue. Conditions have to be met, and nullifiers must be non existant. يجب ان تتحقق شروط وتنتفي الموانع and this isnt for any layman to decide, and should be left for Sheikhs with knowledge of Islam who understand how serious it is.

Making dua to the dead as being in the Middle between a person and Allah, isnt "traditional Sunni Islam".

In Saheeh Al Bukhari "Narrated Anas:

Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain. "

ويعبدون من دول الله ما لا يضرهم ولا ينفعهم ويقولون "هؤلاء شفعاؤنا عند الله" They worship besides Allah what doesnt not harm them or benefit them and say "these are our intercessors with Allah".

also in another verse وما نعبدهم الا ليقربونا الى الله زلفى so they didnt really say they were creators.

Also { وَقالُوا لا تَذَرُنَّ آلِهَتَكُمْ وَلا تَذَرُنَّ وَدًّا وَلا سُواعاً وَلا يَغُوثَ وَيَعُوقَ وَنَسْراً (23) وَقَدْ أَضَلُّوا كَثِيراً وَلا تَزِدِ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلاَّ ضَلالاً (24)

71:23 And said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr.

What are these names? Wadd Suwa etc? They were good people, and they later on became worshipped after their death.

Building on graves and worshipping them isnt limited to Shias, many others who claim to be Sunnis do the same.

'A'isha reported: Umm Habiba and Umm Salama made a mention before the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of a church which they had seen in Abyssinia and which had pictures in it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When a pious person amongst them (among the religious groups) dies they build a place of worship on his grave, and then decorate it with such pictures. They would be the worst of creatures on the Day of judgment in the sight of Allah.

Sound familiar?

Whats ironic, is many who build on graves and worship them and call on Ali raa for help, forget this hadeeth.

Abu'l-Hayyaj al-Asadi told that 'Ali (b. Abu Talib) said to him: Should I not send you on the same mission as Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent me? Do not leave an image without obliterating it, or a high grave without levelling It.

) حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي وَائِلٍ ، أَنَّ عَلِيًّا ، قَالَ لِأَبِي الْهَيَّاجِ الْأَسَدِيّ : أَبْعَثُكَ عَلَى مَا بَعَثَنِي بِهِ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، " أَنْ لَا تَدَعَ قَبْرًا مُشْرِفًا إِلَّا سَوَّيْتَهُ ، وَلَا تِمْثَالًا إِلَّا طَمَسْتَهُ "

You will find some saying "I am Sunni! Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali! yet does similar things. None of the four Imams endorsed such practiced, and they were all against them.

For more see ahlalhdeeth dot com /vbe/


Second, and more important, saying Ya Ali madad, Ya Hussain Madad, Ya Jilani Madad, Ya badawi help cure my wife etc, has nothing to do with "traditional Sunnis". If nobody does that, nobody will say anything.

However, if the ones in the video called "Ya Jilani" or "Ya *put name here*" instead of Hussain, it wouldnt make it "traditional Sunni", more like traditional act of shirk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-jsrfCjkzg


Same thing with some who who claim to be "traditional Sunnis" yet make sujood to their sheikhs, saying this is respect, and not worship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk_vS5qn32A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoB8I...eature=related


Resorting to name-calling for rejection of such actions is certainly not Islamic. Sheikh Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahab didnt bring this as a new thing, it has always been wrong even before he was born.

Even those with Ash'ari Aqeedah عقيدة الاشاعرة and disagree with us on issues of Tawheed of the attributes of Allah توحيد الاسماء والصفات , do not claim that the sheikh brought this.

Sujood to sheikhs, making dua to pious people instead of going directly to Allah, are actions that are hard to defend. So deragetory name-calling becomes the way some approach the issue.

You sound young, and masha'Allah left Shiasm. So I think your Fitrah will clearly make "why such things are wrong" very clear, insha'Allah. May Allah bless you and give us all guidence.

[paratayoma]

As Salamu Alaykum

I dont know why you keep posting up a video about Shia when most of the people on this forum arent Shia but Sunni.

Posting up youtube videos of certain groups doesnt mean all traditional sunnis do that.

No legimate tariqa or madhhab in traditional sunni islam has ever validated sujud to anyone but Allah.

Again..you are recycling arguments and debates that have been settled and refuted already. It is obvious that you are new to this forum and are only starting fitnah.

Wahhabi movement is a deviant group. Many forum members already have posted the traditional sunni refutations to your group. I suggest you use the search option on this forum.

[GeorgeEckland]

As Salamu Alaykum

I dont know why you keep posting up a video about Shia when most of the people on this forum arent Shia but Sunni.

Posting up youtube videos of certain groups doesnt mean all traditional sunnis do that.

No legimate tariqa or madhhab in traditional sunni islam has ever validated sujud to anyone but Allah.

Again..you are recycling arguments and debates that have been settled and refuted already. It is obvious that you are new to this forum and are only starting fitnah.

Wahhabi movement is a deviant group. Many forum members already have posted the traditional sunni refutations to your group. I suggest you use the search option on this forum.

First of all, about the video, many who claim to be Sunni do the same thing and many many graves. No one can deny this. I asked you a specific question and you didnt answer, if they said "Ya Jilani" instead of "Ya Hussain" would it make it different? No, it wouldnt. The concept is the same.

If you want a video of some claiming to be Sunni, heres one. From An AlJazeera documentary, affirming they go to grave to ask for marriage and Barakah, and build huge buildings on the graves they worship. Just like the Shia.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36dz-eKMd4

Another documentary on graves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-wt9-2c5tA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-wt9-2c5tA

Also, they make Hajj to some graves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRo7P5gKnm8



And then they say "traditional Sunni Islam" Maybe traditional myths and superstitions and innovations.

Theres no refutation for graveworship. Trying to give it an islamic cover with weak hadeeths, and verses taken out of context, doesnt make it "traditional". Its far, far from the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Ya Ali madad here, Ya Jilani madad there, Ya Badawi Ya Shafi'i Ya Hussain. What happened to "Ya Allah?" Ya Rahman Ya Raheem Ya Wadood Ya Dhal Jalal Wal Ikram. Allah who said make dua to Him and He will respond. What happenned to calling Allah, by His names?

Its all lost with some. Even if they "stretch" after waking up they'd say "Ya Ali". What is this?

As for your name calling, name ONE belief in Aqeedah, that sheikh Muhammad Bin AbdulWahab brought that didnt exist centuries before he was born. You cannot because theres none, and all he did was reject graveworship, and ask to return to pure Islam, Qur'aan and Sunnah.

You admit that there are groups who may claim to be either Sunni, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, yet make sujood to their sheikhs.

Likewise, is calling Ya Jilani madad, "traditional Sunni islam?" yes or no, far from name calling? Can you answer with a a simple yes or no?

You cant call others names and expect them to be quiet. Defending graveworship is whats fitnah, not otherwise.

[w3QHxwNb]

Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdulwahab never brought anything new, but it bothered some so that they accused him of takfeer as they say (lying, of course which is clear in his books), being an agent of the British (who told him tell people to stop worshipping graves lol) . He was just against graveworship that became prevelant at the time and called to return to pure Islam, from Qur'aan and authentic Sunnah, with no "middle man" between a person and Allah.

Can you prove from anywhere that grave worship had become prevailant at that time?

[GeorgeEckland]

Also, making Tawaf around the grave of Al Badawi. Remember the Saheeh clear hadeeths about building on graves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nu_zy3AUvI


"Traditional Sunnis" (not!) at the grave of "Al Sayyidah Nafisa" (Similar at "Al Sayyidah Zainab)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5HQ9...eature=related

[w3QHxwNb]

In Saheeh Al Bukhari "Narrated Anas:

Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain. "

Please post the arabic.

Abu'l-Hayyaj al-Asadi told that 'Ali (b. Abu Talib) said to him: Should I not send you on the same mission as Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent me? Do not leave an image without obliterating it, or a high grave without levelling It.

) حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي وَائِلٍ ، أَنَّ عَلِيًّا ، قَالَ لِأَبِي الْهَيَّاجِ الْأَسَدِيّ : أَبْعَثُكَ عَلَى مَا بَعَثَنِي بِهِ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، " أَنْ لَا تَدَعَ قَبْرًا مُشْرِفًا إِلَّا سَوَّيْتَهُ ، وَلَا تِمْثَالًا إِلَّا طَمَسْتَهُ " And you are posting images on images, videos on videos.... SAD

You will find some saying "I am Sunni! Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali! yet does similar things. None of the four Imams endorsed such practiced, and they were all against them. How about I'm Salafi!

Can you show me anywhere that the imams were against calling themselves Sunni, Shafii, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali?

However, if the ones in the video called "Ya Jilani" or "Ya *put name here*" instead of Hussain, it wouldnt make it "traditional Sunni", more like traditional act of shirk. So if someone says Ya Jilani, hes a mushrik?

Same thing with some who who claim to be "traditional Sunnis" yet make sujood to their sheikhs, saying this is respect, and not worship. How about bowing down to kiss hands? Isn't that Shirk?

Even those with Ash'ari Aqeedah عقيدة الاشاعرة and disagree with us on issues of Tawheed of the attributes of Allah توحيد الاسماء والصفات , do not claim that the sheikh brought this. Even those.. you mean the ones with Ash'ari aqeedah are misguided?

You sound young, and masha'Allah left Shiasm. So I think your Fitrah will clearly make "why such things are wrong" very clear, insha'Allah. May Allah bless you and give us all guidence. What is such things?

[w3QHxwNb]

Also, making Tawaf around the grave of Al Badawi. Remember the Saheeh clear hadeeths about building on graves?

"Traditional Sunnis" (not!) at the grave of "Al Sayyidah Nafisa" (Similar at "Al Sayyidah Zainab)

What would you say about the building on Rawdah e Rasool

The caption of the video is very misleading. It says, look at the actions of Tasawwuf! Very dishonest!

It's same as saying, look at the actions of Islam - stay away from Islam.

[GeorgeEckland]

Can you prove from anywhere that grave worship had become prevailant at that time?

Yes brother, theres numerous countless sources and history left. Its also common knowledge among the elder.

Theres the grave of Zaid Ibn Al Khattab that they'd go to in a small town called Jubailah, very near Riyadh (you can go by car and come back the same day).

There is also a a place called "Shuainb Al Ghabra" which they'd go to claiming theres a grave of "Dhirar Ibn Al Azwar". In the village of Al Afra, there were palm trees, that they would call "Al-Fahaal" (meaning something like... masculine, not sure of the English word), they would go to Al Fahaal and ask for rizq, women asking to get married, men asking to be cured etc.

In Al Kharj, south of Riyadh, was a man called "taaj" they'd go to to offer Nadhr etc. Also a tree called shajarat Al Dhi'b (tree of the wolf) they'd go to. All of them as intercessors, trees, graves, and so on. It was common all over the Peninsula.

[w3QHxwNb]

Yes brother, theres numerous countless sources and history left. Its also common knowledge among the elder.

Theres the grave of Zaid Ibn Al Khattab that they'd go to in a small town called Jubailah, very near Riyadh (you can go by car and come back the same day).

It's still there?!?!

There is also a a place called "Shuainb Al Ghabra" which they'd go to claiming theres a grave of "Dhirar Ibn Al Azwar". In the village of Al Afra, there were palm trees, that they would call "Al-Fahaal" (meaning something like... masculine, not sure of the English word), they would go to Al Fahaal and ask for rizq, women asking to get married, men asking to be cured etc.

In Al Kharj, south of Riyadh, was a man called "taaj" they'd go to to offer Nadhr etc. Also a tree called shajarat Al Dhi'b (tree of the wolf) they'd go to. All of them as intercessors, trees, graves, and so on. It was common all over the Peninsula. Seems like all the Shirk is around Riyadh.

If we take history and common knowledge of the elders as definite proof, then I would like to state that thousands of Muslims were killed in Haramain due to them being branded Mushriks. Is it okay to kill thousands like that?

[GeorgeEckland]

Please post the arabic.



And you are posting images on images, videos on videos.... SAD



How about I'm Salafi!

Can you show me anywhere that the imams were against calling themselves Sunni, Shafii, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali?



So if someone says Ya Jilani, hes a mushrik?



How about bowing down to kiss hands? Isn't that Shirk?



Even those.. you mean the ones with Ash'ari aqeedah are misguided?



What is such things?

Yes I post videos because when one sees this common sense says that its not right.

As for calling ones self with a certain label (not calling others), I also disagree with this in a way, Ahl Al Sunnah should be more than enough, but this is different from calling others names, in defense of graveworship.

If someone says Ya Jilani cure me, as I explained, we say this is an act of shirk, we dont automatically say he is mushrik. Theres conditions for Takfeer, and nullifiers as well. Its certainly not to be taken lightly, and better to be left for the scholars, not us. Its better to just remind them of Tawheed if they are simply uneducated and surrounded with superstitions. The rest is left to Allah

As for bowing to kiss hands, no. This is different, see why videos are good and better at explaining? LOL

Heres examples, enough to get the point accross what I mean by they make sujood. One after the other, complete and full sujood. I wonder if this sheikh even ever extends his foot. This is not anything near bowing even. Its plain sujood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJDKfpGLDZc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6gk4rbFrI

[w3QHxwNb]

Yes I post videos because when one sees this common sense says that its not right.

As for calling ones self with a certain label (not calling others), I also disagree with this in a way, Ahl Al Sunnah should be more than enough, but this is different from calling others names, in defense of graveworship.

If someone says Ya Jilani cure me, as I explained, we say this is an act of shirk, we dont automatically say he is mushrik. Theres conditions for Takfeer, and nullifiers as well. Its certainly not to be taken lightly, and better to be left for the scholars, not us. Its better to just remind them of Tawheed if they are simply uneducated and surrounded with superstitions. The rest is left to Allah

As for bowing to kiss hands, no. This is different, see why videos are good and better at explaining? LOL

Heres examples, enough to get the point accross what I mean by they make sujood. One after the other, complete and full sujood. I wonder if this sheikh even ever extends his foot. This is not anything near bowing even. Its plain sujood.

Didn't answer any of my questions.

I won't ask again as it is a waste of time.

Just tell me this much, You showed a hadith about destroying images and now ur flooding the forum with images. How is this allowed? Which hadith allows videos/images?