[12dargernswearf]

My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me

After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me.

He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

[kiosokkn]

Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Dont use the word conclusion but say Introduction. The way you changes the tracks, for you Allah knows the best where will you end.

[chootsonege]

My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me

After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me.

He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

Christianity, to Islam, to Buddhism, brief stopover at Christianity and now to idol worship. ...

Demoting God to the level of the creation is absolutely disgusting and shows how far you've sunk Silouan.

May Allah have mercy on you and in this blessed month accept our duas to guide you back to the Truth.

[Enjknsua]

I know this is off topic but I noticed your sig:

The Quran states, "They disbelieve, those who say that God is Christ the son of Mary." (5:17) I say, this is true if God here means the Father, because Christ is not the Father, but the Word of the Father. Haven't you ever read the Gospel of John? You know, the one that goes:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."

Yes, there were some Christians like Arius who did not believe that Jesus was divine, but as I'm sure you know, the Nicean Creed which was eventually adopted by all Christians says Jesus is of the same substance as God; that he is God.

[kiosokkn]

I know this is off topic but I noticed your sig:
Haven't you ever read the Gospel of John?

He doesnt believe in christianity, so it doesnt matter what it has been stated in Bible.

[pBiRXp8u]

Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

Well, being that you are more inclined towards Hinduism, let's take a look at the Hindu idea of the creation of the universe:

"Before this time began, there was no heaven, no earth and no space between. A vast dark ocean washed upon the shores of nothingness and licked the edges of the night. A giant cobra floated on the waters. Asleep within its endless coils lay the Lord Vishnu. He was watched over by the mighty serpent.

Everything was so peaceful and silent that Vishnu slept undisturbed by dreams or motion. From the depths a humming sound began to tremble, Aum. It grew and spread, filling the emptiness and throbbing with energy.

Aum, or Om

The night had ended, Vishnu awoke. As the dawn began to break, from Vishnu’s navel grew a magnificent lotus flower. In the middle of the blossom sat Vishnu’s servant, Brahma. He awaited the Lord’s command. Vishnu spoke to his servant: ‘It is time to begin.’ Brahma bowed. Vishnu commanded: ‘Create the World.’ A wind swept up the waters. Vishnu and the serpent vanished.

Brahma remained in the lotus flower, floating and tossing on the sea. He lifted up his arms and calmed the wind and the ocean. Then Brahma split the lotus flower into three. He stretched one part into the heavens. He made another part into the earth. With the third part of the flower he created the skies.

The earth was bare. Brahma set to work. He created grass, flowers, trees and plants of all kinds. To these he gave feeling. Next he created the animals and the insects to live on the land. He made birds to fly in the air and many fish to swim in the sea. To all these creatures, he gave the senses of touch and smell. He gave them power to see, hear and move.

The world was soon bristling with life and the air was filled with the sounds of Brahma’s creation. "

Taken from: http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signpo...tion_story.htm

So, if you honestly feel that this idea of creation is accurate, more power to you. I, on the other hand, will take the Qur'aanic narrative.

[MaraReenece]

Salam...

We are well aware of the penalty for leaving Islam...

Its good to be tolerant and patient, but too much leniency isn't good either.

[chootsonege]

Asalamu alaykum,

Obviously, as muslims, we find his conversion away from Islam to be abhorrent. But, there should be a level of hikma a muslim should utilise if they want to guide somebody back. Your post is only likely to further him away from Islam.

I mean, take the imam Silouan is talking about. He actually invited him to dinner and had a long discussion to guide him with hikmah and patience. That's what we should be like too. Harshness in this context is counter-productive and if your intention is sincere, you shouldn't do it.

I think you'll find he's distanced himself far from Islam all by himself without any help from me! Siloaun joined SF as an apostate so my "harsh" tone has nothing to do with his actions prior to joining SF.

How are we supposed to talk to apostates?

[globjgtyf]

My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me

After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me.

He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

I can't believe this !! Hinduism is the epitome of idol worshipping and mythical beliefs.anyway may Allah guide you in the right path.Iman is such a precious gift that it is not given to everyone.

[MaraReenece]

Iman is such a precious gift that it is not given to everyone.

And he threw it away in persuence of his WORLD VIEW, what Hinduism?

[chootsonege]

The following article I find is indicative of a problem that exists when one decides to learn Islam on their own

http://masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/wobb.htm

[AnneseeKels]

This reminds me of a Ripley's Believe it or Not show here in the USA I recently watched with my son.

In it, an investigative reporter exposed a cult/tribe within Hinduism wherein they eat the flesh of the dead. Apparently, certain Hindus burn their dead on the shore of a river (I forgot the name of the river). And this cult/tribe is situated right on this shore/village. Every so often, male members of this cult/tribe sneek up to the burning corpse and remove portions of it when no one is looking (usually at night). They take these pieces of burning human flesh a distance to some spot they like and then eat the flesh in some ritual. Apparently younger men become drunk before doing this.

The video footage showed these flesheaters bowing down without using their hands to bite pieces of the flesh. They are painted and wearing some colored ceremonial robe.

The report said locals in the area are afraid of this cult/tribe because they are known to cast spells on those who stop them.

Just wanted to share that tidbit morsel of info from Ripley's Believe it or Not!

[sapedotru]

Maybe it would be best if Silouan explains what about Hinduism appeals to him.

as Muslims, we automaticly attack the aspects [clip] which we find abhorant.

He obviously does not hold the same aversion to polytheism as we do.

which also means he must have never had love for tauhid in his heart when he was Muslim.

So what aspects of Hinduism fit your world view Silouan?

[Prosocorneliay]

His explanation is worthless. This is guy is obviously confused. He was defending Christianity adamantly months ago, now he is Hindu?? May Allah guide him to the Haqq.

[KeettyGlots]

My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me

After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me.

He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

-Hinduism is a pantheistic religion that claims that "God is all, and all is God." Now, beyond the arrogance of asserting that you're God, this also has numerous moral and theological weaknesses.

If everybody is essentially God, then individual morality essentially breaks down. Why not kill such and such? They're really me...so am I really doing anything wrong? Hindus attempted to overcome this issue with the idea of reincarnation. The problem with reincarnation though is that it's not really a punishment. The idea within Hinduism is that if you're bad, you'll be reborn as a fly or something; the problem with this though is that it assumes being a fly would be inherently bad. It may be blissful to be a being that has such little understanding of the world. It may not be; who knows? Is a fly even aware that its in a bad state or that it's being punished? I certainly don't have any recollection of any past life, so how exactly would a fly be aware of any past life and the punishment incurred during it? It's nonsensical. Not to mention that reincarnation also leads to numerous social ills such as caste stratification. The assumption behind this is that a noble, virtuous person would be reborn as someone wealthy, whereas a unvirtuous person would be born poor and lowly. Reincarnation, if taken to its logical extent, inherently leads to this mentality.

A better way to understand the relationship between the human and the divine is to think of Allah as a thinker, and we're the thought. The thinker isn't the thought, just as the thought isn't the thinker; they're related. The thought is wholly dependent on the thinker. If the thinker does not exist, then the thought cannot exist; the thought cannot be independent of the thinker, but the thinker can be independent of the though. Now, there are caveats to this. A thought doesn't think, but we--self evidently--do think. So it's more appropriate to liken our existence to what it is: a creation of Allah that has physicality and individuality (and depending on how well one's individual will aligns with the will of Allah, one will be rewarded or punished). The world isn't a mere illusion. It's illusory in nature, but it has a reality--a contingent reality (one that is wholly dependent on Allah for its existence).

And Allah knows best.

[DumbNelmcrece]

Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

Please have a look in the book "Mohammad in World Scriptures". I hope that your journey towards the truth will ultimately end successfully.

http://www.al-rashad.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=844

http://isris.blogspot.com/2005/09/mu...criptures.html

ACCORDING TO HINDU SCRIPTURES

The “Puran” comprises of 18 volumes. They are the 3500 years old religious books of the Hindus. “Bhavishya” means foretelling of things that will happen in the future. Below is the Sanskrit text from Prati Sarg Parv 3, Kanda 3, Adhyaya 3, Slokas 5-8 of “Bhavishya Puran”, published by Venkateshwar Press, Bombay:

Translation:

5) “A Malech (i.e. a person who does not know how to read or write) will become a great spiritual guide or acharya teaching the world what they did not know.

“Mahamad will be his blessed name. He will appear with his disciples (i.e. Ashab)”.

6) “Those who will accept this Maha Dev dweller of the desert (i.e. Arabia) will become pure (sins forgiven).

“Like those (Hindus whose sins are washed away) when they take a bath in the pure waters of the Ganga and the Pangaviya (the five rivers of Punjab).

“These pious will offer him their sincere devotion and show him all reverence”.

7) “Bhoj Raj will do Namaste (i.e. I pay my respects to you) O you, the pride of mankind, the dweller of the hills and sands (i.e. Mecca which comprises several hills and sands).

“You will collect a great force to destroy the evil (i.e. all the evil pagan habits of the people of Arabia) and you are protected from your enemies”.

8) “O you, the representative of the Almighty God will be the noblest person (amongst mankind), I (i.e. Maharishi Vyasa the writer of the Puran) offer myself as a slave to you (from now i.e. more than a thousand years before your birth), so take me as one lying at your feet (i.e. one who has wholeheartedly accepted your religion)”.

Actually at the time of Prophet Muhammad of Arabia, there was a king of Dhar, a town in the western part of Central India. His name happened to be Bhoj. When he saw from his palace that the full moon was split into two he raised an alarm. He feared the world was coming to an end. He found out from the Sanskrit Holy Books of India that this was the work of a very great personage whose name was Mahamad of the deserts of Arabia, who was the greatest messenger of God to come on this earth.

Raja Bhoj sent his gifts to the Holy Prophet Muhammad at Mecca and accepted Islam. Thus the foretellings made in the Bhavishya Puran over a thousand years earlier became absolutely true including the name of Raja Bhoj. The Shrine of this King who changed his name to Abdullah is still in existence outside Dhar town (Pages 10-17, Asrar-e-Tasaouf, published Lahore, May 1925 Edition).

[Arr34ston]

This is guy is obviously confused. He was defending Christianity adamantly months ago, now he is Hindu??

I thought this was strange too.

[12dargernswearf]

His explanation is worthless. This is guy is obviously confused. He was defending Christianity adamantly months ago, now he is Hindu?? May Allah guide him to the Haqq.

I've followed some form of Islam most of life. And now that I've left Islam, I still have a spiritual needs. Islam failed in fulfilling my spiritual needs so I've sought else where. So this has lead me to studying other traditions in search of God, trying to understand my purpose in life etc etc.

What is confusing about that???

-Silouan

[12dargernswearf]

-Hinduism is a pantheistic religion that claims that "God is all, and all is God." Now, beyond the arrogance of asserting that you're God, this also has numerous moral and theological weaknesses.

First of all, Hinduism is a monothesitic religion, Brahman is the one God. What is agreed about the one God by both Muslims and Hindus is that He is beyond comprehension. So if God is beyond comprehension, then any explanation that one gives of God actually falls short of what God really is. Some try to explain God using logic, but God is not the conclusion of some logical formula either.

What can be said about pantheism, whether it is a reality or not, I don't know, but when one reaches the highest states of spirituality, one feels as if they are one with God. Even in Islam when one reaches the highest spiritual, Prophet Muhammad describe this experience as in a Hadith Qudsi as, "And when I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he seizes, and his foot with which he walks," (Sahih Muslim)

This experience is known by the sufis as Fana or Baqa. If one reaches this spiritual experience without the science of Islamic aqidah one can reach the conclusion that he or she is God or even that everything is God. It is not inconceivable for one to perceive this.
The assumption behind this is that a noble, virtuous person would be reborn as someone wealthy, whereas a unvirtuous person would be born poor and lowly. Reincarnation, if taken to its logical extent, inherently leads to this mentality. Hindu Aqidah is not like Islamic Aqidah, one is not required to believe in everything, that is taught. I personally believe in reincarnation in regards to people, but I don't know about people reincarnating into animals. It doesn't seems reasonable to me. And I don't have to believe it.

A better way to understand the relationship between the human and the divine is to think of Allah as a thinker, and we're the thought. The thinker isn't the thought, just as the thought isn't the thinker; they're related. The thought is wholly dependent on the thinker. If the thinker does not exist, then the thought cannot exist; the thought cannot be independent of the thinker, but the thinker can be independent of the though. Now, there are caveats to this. A thought doesn't think, but we--self evidently--do think. So it's more appropriate to liken our existence to what it is: a creation of Allah that has physicality and individuality (and depending on how well one's individual will aligns with the will of Allah, one will be rewarded or punished). The world isn't a mere illusion. It's illusory in nature, but it has a reality--a contingent reality (one that is wholly dependent on Allah for its existence). I don't think the hindus would disagree with you on this one.

-Silouan

[lapInsalm]

First of all, Hinduism is a monothesitic religion, Brahman is the one God. What is agreed about the one God by both Muslims and Hindus is that He is beyond comprehension. So if God is beyond comprehension, then any explanation that one gives of God actually falls short of what God really is. Some try to explain God using logic, but God is not the conclusion of some logical formula either.

What can be said about pantheism, whether it is a reality or not, I don't know, but when one reaches the highest states of spirituality, one feels as if they are one with God. Even in Islam when one reaches the highest spiritual, Prophet Muhammad describe this experience as in a Hadith Qudsi as, "And when I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he seizes, and his foot with which he walks," (Sahih Muslim)

This experience is known by the sufis as Fana or Baqa. If one reaches this spiritual experience without the science of Islamic aqidah one can reach the conclusion that he or she is God or even that everything is God. It is not inconceivable for one to perceive this.


Hindu Aqidah is not like Islamic Aqidah, one is not required to believe in everything, that is taught. I personally believe in reincarnation in regards to people, but I don't know about people reincarnating into animals. It doesn't seems reasonable to me. And I don't have to believe it.



I don't think the hindus would disagree with you on this one.

-Silouan

You seem to be a very confused individual regardless of the Religion you follow