[Vezazvqw]

Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem had been invited by the University of Hertfordshire Student Union Islamic Society to
speak on ‘Marriage in Islam’ at today’s event but will now not be allowed onto the campus.

Where is the freedom of speech/ expression?

[scemHeish]

Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem had been invited by the University of Hertfordshire Student Union Islamic Society to
speak on ‘Marriage in Islam’ at today’s event but will now not be allowed onto the campus.

Where is the freedom of speech/ expression?

Where is inviting towards truth with wisdom?

[tweriaroats]

Where is inviting towards truth with wisdom?

Maybe he was asked a question on homosexuality; what was he supposed to do, just lie and say it's all good? At least he spoke the truth and in this country, he is supposed to have freedom of speech regardless of whether his approach was 'wise' or not.

[scemHeish]

Maybe he was asked a question on homosexuality; what was he supposed to do, just lie and say it's all good? At least he spoke the truth and in this country, he is supposed to have freedom of speech regardless of whether his approach was 'wise' or not.

Salaam,

Freedom of speech has consequences, people should not complain.

[DrJonson]

Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem had been invited by the University of Hertfordshire Student Union Islamic Society to
speak on ‘Marriage in Islam’ at today’s event but will now not be allowed onto the campus.

Where is the freedom of speech/ expression?

liberals are ironically often the most intolerant people.

[ARKLqAZ6]

The 'true' nature of freedom of speech should divest itself from consequences. If there are consequences then it is not freedom of speech. It is a deception.

The Shaikh was 100% correct in stating the Haqq. That is wisdom.

[ConoMadura]

Does anyone know where we draw the line with freedom of expression? Do Muslims have the exclusive right to draw that line?

Barak Allah ta'aala

[ethigSmimbine]

As a Muslim your supposed say what you believe in to be the truth as per Quran and Sunnah . If someone compromises that when it comes to talking in public then they better re examine their own sincerity in belief.

What would any of us say in situations such as this if we are in the public
spotlight ?

[Vezazvqw]

Freedom of expression comes from the freedom of thought, however that expression should be allowed only if it does not resultto insult or injury.

[ethigSmimbine]

Freedom of expression comes from the freedom of thought, however that expression should be allowed only if it does not resultto insult or injury.

' Insult and Injury ' I agree if a person do not know how to say something delicately or diplomatically in public that might result in insult and injury . Such a person should not be in a public platform.

But your missing the point on the issue we are discussing ,
If someone asks me what is my standing
on homosexuality I have no choice but to answer them in terms however
delicately put that will insult and injure intended or not.

Because I do believe its not natural and should not be allowed in society.

As a Muslim I feel I will go against the Shariah and will be accountable to Allah if I try to mince my words on the matter.

Not everything has politically correct answers to it.

How would you have answered the question ?

[ConoMadura]

' Insult and Injury ' I agree if a person do not know how to say something delicately or diplomatically in public that might result in insult and injury . Such a person should not be in a public platform.

But your missing the point on the issue we are discussing ,
If someone asks me what is my standing
on homosexuality I have no choice but to answer them in terms however
delicately put that will insult and injure intended or not.

Because I do believe its not natural and should not be allowed in society.

As a Muslim I feel I will go against the Shariah and will be accountable to Allah if I try to mince my words on the matter.

Not everything has politically correct answers to it.

How would you have answered the question ?

I don’t think homosexuals should feel injured just like someone denying Islam is the true religion shouldn’t offend us. Wallahu a’alam

Barak Allah ta’aala.

[ConoMadura]

Freedom of speech debate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqxO-...eature=related

Barak Allah ta’aala.

[Hsmrcahr]

The real hard question is, if a Muslim country should be allowed to punish a gay, why shouldnt a pro gay country be allowed to execute a Muslim for being Muslim ?

If you look at the big picture, we lost the plot when we started using UN laws and conventions. If the relationship was mutual then it would be better in that we don't have to show any hypocrisy such as begging for secularism in kaffir countries while opposing secularism in Muslim countries. If a kaffir country doesn't want muslims, then muslims shouldnt even go there rather than begging them. This should be made clear lest we give the impression that muslims are there because we agreed with UN laws or love secularism and liberalism.

An Indian Muslim is also caught up in this because Muslims are better off if the politics in India stays away from religion. So in my view Muslim relationship with kaffir society is in getting them to like us and make allowance for us.

[Vezazvqw]

' Insult and Injury ' I agree if a person do not know how to say something delicately or diplomatically in public that might result in insult and injury . Such a person should not be in a public platform.

But your missing the point on the issue we are discussing ,
If someone asks me what is my standing
on homosexuality I have no choice but to answer them in terms however
delicately put that will insult and injure intended or not.

Because I do believe its not natural and should not be allowed in society.

As a Muslim I feel I will go against the Shariah and will be accountable to Allah if I try to mince my words on the matter.

Not everything has politically correct answers to it.

How would you have answered the question ?

As a practicing Muslimah I follow the teaching of the Quran. I have worked in many environments where my fellow workers have been gay. Alhumdulilah when in a situation where, i have been asked about my view on gay people, i have never hesitated to say that I believe it to be an unnatural practice and and something Allah condemns.

My response even makes straight people feel uncomfortable, but I believe in saying what I believe in without resorting to insulting

[GotActichwicy]

Salam,

I go to the University of Hertfordshire in my final year studying Human Biology and Psychology. So i heard of this happening even thought i chose not to be a member of the Islamic society.

I have looked at homosexuality and it has come up a bit in my course. I have to come to a conclusion that homosexuals are one of the two:

1. They have a problem in the brain and are therefore not "normal" and are "unnatural", if such a word even makes sense.

OR

2. They are "normal" and "natural" but CHOOSE to be homosexual.

Both cannot be the case, because that does not make sense... So either a homosexual has a problem in the brain and therefore did not "choose" to be homosexual and it cannot be helped in that regard OR a homosexual has NO problem in the brain and "CHOSE" to be homosexual.



Studies done on homosexual men found that the amygdala (involved in emotions, moods etc.) in the brain is very similar to that of a woman.
And studies done on homosexual women found that the amygdala in the brain is very similar to that of a man.

So this suggests that there is a "deformity" in the brain AND therefore the homosexual did NOT choose to be homosexual.


However, this does not explain everything as environment does have a part to play. Would a child who ONLY experiences women and sees women still find men attractive? Would a child who has never seen a man still find a man attractive? If the amygdala and other brain regions are NOT responsible for homosexuality then it is a CHOICE and a LIFESTYLE of the person to be attracted to men, but this "choice" came about from the environment, early age sexuality, media, social pressures etc.

Personally, to NOT be attracted to the opposite sex, which serves as key for reproduction, which is key for human survival is a definite "problem". If a young man who's body produces sperm to produce children is NOT used for this purpose then the question of survival comes into play. However men may still have children but "lie" to themselves and then sleep with the same sex. So the middle ground maybe that there is a predisposition to be a homosexual which is triggered by certain environment factors, of which a few I have mentioned.




Now coming to the question of "freedom of speech", Freedom of speech is you may say what you like, as long as NO INSULT OR HARM is caused to others. So the Shaykh saying what he said is "correct" in the sense that it may be a problem but if it is not a problem then it cannot be "treated", because it as a lifestyle choice. If anyone causes insult or harm when it is UNCALLED for then that SHOULD NOT be under "freedom of speech", whether you are a Muslim, Non Muslim, Donkey, Cow, whatever. If you cause insult or harm that is NOT freedom of speech. A man insulting the Prophet is NOT exercising freedom of speech, someone honouring murder is NOT freedom of speech etc etc. Criticising the government IS freedom of speech because that is not insulting or harming anyone, that is using reason and cortex of the brain... not the emotional processing part of the brain.

Homosexuality is a tough one, unless we understand it fully, we cannot judge from our own personal whims and desires what and who they are, but all we can say at most is "God does not like it, God punishes it"... we cannot start claiming things without knowledge of the subject.

Salam

[Corporal White]

aoa,
this ought to solve any confusions in the minds of people about concept of freedom of thought and speech in Islam. one must restrict our opinions when the scholars of islam have spoken.
regarding homosexuality it is one of the biggest sins and one of the biggest destroyers of society and civil life. one may tone down the definition in different environments but the basic idea should remain the same. when speaking to a homosexual audience perhaps a muslim should avoid calling them fairies. but the muslims should tell them clearly it is unnatural and inhuman.to a muslim audience Qaum-e-Lut's incident should suffice.

[Vezazvqw]

Salam,


OR

2. They are "normal" and "natural" but CHOOSE to be homosexual.

Both cannot be the case, because that does not make sense... So either a homosexual has a problem in the brain and therefore did not "choose" to be homosexual and it cannot be helped in that regard OR a homosexual has NO problem in the brain and "CHOSE" to be homosexual.



Studies done on homosexual men found that the amygdala (involved in emotions, moods etc.) in the brain is very similar to that of a woman.
And studies done on homosexual women found that the amygdala in the brain is very similar to that of a man.

So this suggests that there is a "deformity" in the brain AND therefore the homosexual did NOT choose to be homosexual.


However, this does not explain everything as environment does have a part to play. Would a child who ONLY experiences women and sees women still find men attractive? Would a child who has never seen a man still find a man attractive? If the amygdala and other brain regions are NOT responsible for homosexuality then it is a CHOICE and a LIFESTYLE of the person to be attracted to men, but this "choice" came about from the environment, early age sexuality, media, social pressures etc.

Personally, to NOT be attracted to the opposite sex, which serves as key for reproduction, which is key for human survival is a definite "problem". If a young man who's body produces sperm to produce children is NOT used for this purpose then the question of survival comes into play. However men may still have children but "lie" to themselves and then sleep with the same sex. So the middle ground maybe that there is a predisposition to be a homosexual which is triggered by certain environment factors, of which a few I have mentioned.




Now coming to the question of "freedom of speech", Freedom of speech is you may say what you like, as long as NO INSULT OR HARM is caused to others. So the Shaykh saying what he said is "correct" in the sense that it may be a problem but if it is not a problem then it cannot be "treated", because it as a lifestyle choice. If anyone causes insult or harm when it is UNCALLED for then that SHOULD NOT be under "freedom of speech", whether you are a Muslim, Non Muslim, Donkey, Cow, whatever. If you cause insult or harm that is NOT freedom of speech. A man insulting the Prophet is NOT exercising freedom of speech, someone honouring murder is NOT freedom of speech etc etc. Criticising the government IS freedom of speech because that is not insulting or harming anyone, that is using reason and cortex of the brain... not the emotional processing part of the brain.

Homosexuality is a tough one, unless we understand it fully, we cannot judge from our own personal whims and desires what and who they are, but all we can say at most is "God does not like it, God punishes it"... we cannot start claiming things without knowledge of the subject.

Salam

Brother you have provided a good insight

jazakallah khairun

[Hsmrcahr]

Salam,

I go to the University of Hertfordshire in my final year studying Human Biology and Psychology. So i heard of this happening even thought i chose not to be a member of the Islamic society.

I have looked at homosexuality and it has come up a bit in my course. I have to come to a conclusion that homosexuals are one of the two:

1. They have a problem in the brain and are therefore not "normal" and are "unnatural", if such a word even makes sense.

OR

2. They are "normal" and "natural" but CHOOSE to be homosexual.

Both cannot be the case, because that does not make sense... So either a homosexual has a problem in the brain and therefore did not "choose" to be homosexual and it cannot be helped in that regard OR a homosexual has NO problem in the brain and "CHOSE" to be homosexual.



Studies done on homosexual men found that the amygdala (involved in emotions, moods etc.) in the brain is very similar to that of a woman.
And studies done on homosexual women found that the amygdala in the brain is very similar to that of a man.

So this suggests that there is a "deformity" in the brain AND therefore the homosexual did NOT choose to be homosexual.


However, this does not explain everything as environment does have a part to play. Would a child who ONLY experiences women and sees women still find men attractive? Would a child who has never seen a man still find a man attractive? If the amygdala and other brain regions are NOT responsible for homosexuality then it is a CHOICE and a LIFESTYLE of the person to be attracted to men, but this "choice" came about from the environment, early age sexuality, media, social pressures etc.

Personally, to NOT be attracted to the opposite sex, which serves as key for reproduction, which is key for human survival is a definite "problem". If a young man who's body produces sperm to produce children is NOT used for this purpose then the question of survival comes into play. However men may still have children but "lie" to themselves and then sleep with the same sex. So the middle ground maybe that there is a predisposition to be a homosexual which is triggered by certain environment factors, of which a few I have mentioned.




Now coming to the question of "freedom of speech", Freedom of speech is you may say what you like, as long as NO INSULT OR HARM is caused to others. So the Shaykh saying what he said is "correct" in the sense that it may be a problem but if it is not a problem then it cannot be "treated", because it as a lifestyle choice. If anyone causes insult or harm when it is UNCALLED for then that SHOULD NOT be under "freedom of speech", whether you are a Muslim, Non Muslim, Donkey, Cow, whatever. If you cause insult or harm that is NOT freedom of speech. A man insulting the Prophet is NOT exercising freedom of speech, someone honouring murder is NOT freedom of speech etc etc. Criticising the government IS freedom of speech because that is not insulting or harming anyone, that is using reason and cortex of the brain... not the emotional processing part of the brain.

Homosexuality is a tough one, unless we understand it fully, we cannot judge from our own personal whims and desires what and who they are, but all we can say at most is "God does not like it, God punishes it"... we cannot start claiming things without knowledge of the subject.

Salam

I believe that the best way to understand what you call mind problem is the adpatibility of the brain. We know that sinning would darken the heart and cause people to no more consider sinning as evil. A similar slow change could perhaps occur also in our bodies to sinning. This popped into my head when I watched this news about certain experiments on robotic hands for amputees. The intresting aspect of the expermient was that the brain slowly wires by itself to this robotic hand and feels like his real hand. I also remember reading studies about phantom hands which is a similar problem where the mind thinks it still has a hand despite the hands being amputed. They learnt to cure it by using a mirror to change the impression the brain signals receive and thereby to "rewire" it. The point important here is the adaptibility of the brain. Their atmosphere,lifestyle, influences, thoughts, emo culture etc could slowly rewire the brain towards gayness. And hence it is fully possible that they have a genuine mind problem in their homosexuality. This ofcourse is irrelevent to the Islamic legislation against homlsexuality but helps us understand how they reach their state.


The other option of the mind problem is that they are simply shameless that they would do whatever, in the way of the famous saying of the past "if you do not have shame then do what you like".

[Vezazvqw]

The other option of the mind problem is that they are simply shameless that they would do whatever, in the way of the famous saying of the past "if you do not have shame then do what you like".[/QUOTE]

Salaam Brother

It could well be this, especially if we refer to the consolidated message of Islam, and make references to what Allah had
revealed at the time, in the Torah and the Bible.

The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning." ... Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." .... They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door. But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. ... The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it." ... By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. (Genesis 19)

The Torah is the primary source for Jewish views on homosexuality. It states that: "[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a to'eva" (Leviticus 18:22).


"We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175)

"Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58)

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29

[GotActichwicy]

I believe that the best way to understand what you call mind problem is the adpatibility of the brain. We know that sinning would darken the heart and cause people to no more consider sinning as evil. A similar slow change could perhaps occur also in our bodies to sinning. This popped into my head when I watched this news about certain experiments on robotic hands for amputees. The intresting aspect of the expermient was that the brain slowly wires by itself to this robotic hand and feels like his real hand. I also remember reading studies about phantom hands which is a similar problem where the mind thinks it still has a hand despite the hands being amputed. They learnt to cure it by using a mirror to change the impression the brain signals receive and thereby to "rewire" it. The point important here is the adaptibility of the brain. Their atmosphere,lifestyle, influences, thoughts, emo culture etc could slowly rewire the brain towards gayness. And hence it is fully possible that they have a genuine mind problem in their homosexuality. This ofcourse is irrelevent to the Islamic legislation against homlsexuality but helps us understand how they reach their state.


The other option of the mind problem is that they are simply shameless that they would do whatever, in the way of the famous saying of the past "if you do not have shame then do what you like".

I fully agree, that can also be the case. A person committing homosexual acts may rewire the neurons in the brain, more specifically in the amygdala to make it more like a woman's. This is plausible. And therefore it just makes their desire for the same sex even stronger. Hence evil acts causing more evil acts.