[xanaxnewtrader]

You guys brought up something enlightening to me about the Imams. How can you prove that they were not the 12 Imams?

I don't think you have read anything other than Al-kafi. Otherwise you would not have ignorant views of the Shias. I am currently reading about the shias in Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih of Shaikh Saduq, which is one of their hadith books.

If you can prove that the 12 Imams were not Imams but just people, then this would definetly disprove Shia Islam. Can you please bring some proof on this?

[bahrains27]

You guys brought up something enlightening to me about the Imams. How can you prove that they were not the 12 Imams?

I don't think you have read anything other than Al-kafi. Otherwise you would not have ignorant views of the Shias. I am currently reading about the shias in Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih of Shaikh Saduq, which is one of their hadith books.

If you can prove that the 12 Imams were not Imams but just people, then this would definetly disprove Shia Islam. Can you please bring some proof on this?

We believe that they are Imams, in fact we call them Imams. But we don't believe in something else guess what that is.

[xanaxnewtrader]

We believe that they are Imams, in fact we call them Imams. But we don't believe in something else guess what that is.

You mean infallibility? I thought that the Shia Imams declared that they were Infallible. If this is true, then how come there is no proof? This would have defeated Shia Islam a long time ago if there was proof that the Imams were not infallible.

Try to read the Shia Hadith I am reading, if you haven't already read it of course.

[bahrains27]

You mean infallibility? I thought that the Shia Imams declared that they were Infallible. If this is true, then how come there is no proof? This would have defeated Shia Islam a long time ago if there was proof that the Imams were not infallible.

Try to read the Shia Hadith I am reading, if you haven't already read it of course.

Something more important than infallibility, We believe they are Imams and pious scholars but we don't believe in the twelver shiite concept of ****** fill the blank.

[xanaxnewtrader]

Something more important than infallibility, We believe they are Imams and pious scholars but we don't believe in the twelver shiite concept of ****** fill the blank.

Please enlighten me about what you mean by ******, because I am just learning about Shia Islam. If you don't believe that the Imams are ******fill the blank, then where is your proof concerning this matter?

[bahrains27]

It's their concept of "Divine right of kings" The "Holy Imamah" ok? To Them the Imamah is an Asl Min Usool el Din Now can you answer the following question:

Where do the Muslims take their Usool el Din from?

[Neitteloxesia]

I don't think you are right on the 70% people of syeds being sunnis. Because, in order to be a Syed, you would have to be coming from the 12 Imams of the shias. Like me for example, I have a shia background. This would imply that Shias probably have more syeds than sunnis do.

interesting

[xanaxnewtrader]

interesting

I am surprised that you didn't know about this not known.


I prefer if you would answer my question first as to how can you prove that the 12 Imams were not the Holy Imamah or something?

I initally assumed that the 12 Imams were from the Holy Imamah but if you can prove otherwise, I would like to hear it.

[bahrains27]

interesting

I know this guy is clueless, According to what he said The Brother Of Imam Mohammad el Baqir would not be a sayyed Lol.

[xanaxnewtrader]

I know this guy is clueless, According to what he said The Brother Of Imam Mohammad el Baqir would not be a sayyed Lol.

I would highly appreciate it if you would prove that the 12 Shia Imams never were from the Holy Imamate or infalliable etc, and were just normal, pious scholars.

[xanaxnewtrader]

I know this guy is clueless, According to what he said The Brother Of Imam Mohammad el Baqir would not be a sayyed Lol.

Actually I was wrong. Muhammad Al Baqir's brother still came from a Shia Imam, hence he would even be syed. So your logic would be wrong.

[bahrains27]

What I mean is that people who are syeds "MAINLY" come from the 12 Shia Imams, though there are very few exceptions of other people.

I would highly appreciate it if you would prove that the 12 Shia Imams never were from the Holy Imamate or infalliable etc, and were just normal, pious scholars.

I Want to be honest with you, i believe in Something called "Juda'Imamah" Which means that there were 12 holy Imams, but they are not from Hussein's lineage In Fact they are 12 Imams from Bani Israel and they are Jewish, I dare you to prove otherwise. i have proofs as well.

[xanaxnewtrader]

I Want to be honest with you, i believe in Something called "Juda'Imamah" Which means that there were 12 holy Imams, but they are not from Hussein's lineage In Fact they are 12 Imams from Bani Israel and they are Jewish, I dare you to prove otherwise. i have proofs as well.

First You have to acknowledge what I said was right about syeds having to come from the 12 Imams in order to be syed was true.

I just proved to you that even Muhammad al baqir's brother is syed because he came from a syed father.

I never heard something called "Juda Imamah"? I know that there were 12 tribes of Israel. Enlighten me on this concept as I think this is foreign to my Islamic knowledge.

If you have proof to dispel this concept of Jafar as sadiq being a Shia Imam I would be glad to hear it. But so far I have not heard proof that Jafar as sadiq was sunni.

[bahrains27]

Actually I was wrong. Muhammad Al Baqir's brother still came from a Shia Imam, hence he would even be syed. So your logic would be wrong.

What About Omar Bin Ali Zainu'l Abedeen Bin Hussein Bin Ali Bin Abi TalibRAA is he a Sayyed as well? Ok Another question why Did The uncle of imam Ja'afar el Sadiq rebel against Hashim and try to take the caliphate for himself? Didn't he know his nephew was entitled to it?

[bahrains27]

First You have to acknowledge what I said was right about syeds having to come from the 12 Imams in order to be syed was true.

I just proved to you that even Muhammad al baqir's brother is syed because he came from a syed father.

I never heard something called "Juda Imamah"? I know that there were 12 tribes of Israel. Enlighten me on this concept as I think this is foreign to my Islamic knowledge.

If you have proof to dispel this concept of Jafar as sadiq being a Shia Imam I would be glad to hear it. But so far I have not heard proof that Jafar as sadiq was sunni.

Before i give you my proofs I want to ask, For the twelvers is the Imamah from Usool el Deen?

[xanaxnewtrader]

What About Omar Bin Ali Zainu'l Abedeen Bin Hussein Bin Ali Bin Abi TalibRAA is he a Sayyed as well? Ok Another question why Did The uncle of imam Ja'afar el Sadiq rebel against Hashim and try to take the caliphate for himself? Didn't he know his nephew was entitled to it?

Now I am not a professional person regarding Shia Islam, but who is Omar Bin Ali Zainu'l Abedeen Bin Hussein Bin Ali Bin Abi Talib?

Zainu'l Abedeen had only two sons: Muhammad Al Baqir and Zayd Bin Ali. Both were Syeds because both were the sons of Zainu'l Abedeen who was the son of Imam Hussein, the 3rd Imam.

This proves that in order to be a syed, you would have to come from 12 imams which further proves that sunnis cannot be the majority of syeds as all syeds have a shia background.

Could you please give me the name of the Uncle of Imam Jaafar al sadiq?

Also, what is this belief of the Juda Imamah? Is this an islamic concept?

[bahrains27]

Now I am not a professional person regarding Shia Islam, but who is Omar Bin Ali Zainu'l Abedeen Bin Hussein Bin Ali Bin Abi Talib?

Zainu'l Abedeen had only two sons: Muhammad Al Baqir and Zayd Bin Ali. Both were Syeds because both were the sons of Zainu'l Abedeen who was the son of Imam Hussein, the 3rd Imam.

This proves that in order to be a syed, you would have to come from 12 imams which further proves that sunnis cannot be the majority of syeds as all syeds have a shia background.

Could you please give me the name of the Uncle of Imam Jaafar al sadiq?

Also, what is this belief of the Juda Imamah? Is this an islamic concept?

According to many twelvers Prophet PBUh never had daughters other than Fatima, also according to twelvers anyone called abu bakar or Umar or uthman is "denied", meaning that they deny his existence but guess what Their brothers the Zaidi Shiites actually expose their lies because in their texts Ali had a third and youngest son called Omar and that is common knowledge for them, in fact Twelver scholar use the most ridiculous excuses to prove that the Imams never named thier sons names such as "Uthman, Omar, Abu Bakr".

But before i tell you anything more, first answer my fundamental question above. Is the Imamah from usool el Din according to the twelvers?

[xanaxnewtrader]

According to many twelvers Prophet PBUh never had daughters other than Fatima, also according to twelvers anyone called abu bakar or Umar or uthman is "denied", meaning that they deny his existence but guess what Their brothers the Zaidi Shiites actually expose their lies because in their texts Ali had a third and youngest son called Omar and that is common knowledge for them, in fact Twelver scholar use the most ridiculous excuses to prove that the Imams never named thier sons names such as "Uthman, Omar, Abu Bakr".

But before i tell you anything more, first answer my fundamental question above. Is the Imamah from usool el Din according to the twelvers?

I will go off topic and say that I really enjoy having these discussions with you about Shia/Sunni Islam. It really makes me invest my time in Islamic things so thank you.

First off, how do the Zaidi's "expose their lies"? How do you know that they are not lying themselves?

I am not avoiding your question but I would really appreciate it if you could answer mine, since I asked you first. Can you really prove that the Imams like Jafar As Sadiq were not infallible or part of the Holy Imamah? I would really like to see their proof.

I am not sure if the Imamah is from the Usool el din. I am still learning the concepts of Shia Islam so I am not that advanced as you are, but I am some important knowledge of Shia Islam.

[bahrains27]

I will go off topic and say that I really enjoy having these discussions with you about Shia/Sunni Islam. It really makes me invest my time in Islamic things so thank you.

First off, how do the Zaidi's "expose their lies"? How do you know that they are not lying themselves?

I am not avoiding your question but I would really appreciate it if you could answer mine, since I asked you first. Can you really prove that the Imams like Jafar As Sadiq were not infallible or part of the Holy Imamah? I would really like to see their proof.

I am not sure if the Imamah is from the Usool el din. I am still learning the concepts of Shia Islam so I am not that advanced as you are, but I am some important knowledge of Shia Islam.

For God's Sake Man IT IS FROM USOOL EL DEEN? How the Hell can you research "Imami Shiites" If you Don't know This Basic piece of Information, Why The Hell would you read "Man La Yahduruhu el Faqih" If You don't know that the Imamah is not from Usool el Deen for Them!

Now where do the Muslims get their Usool el Deen from? I'll answer since you're clueless, We Get them from the Quran.

Now I can prove My Judah'Imamah from the Quran and that the 12 leaders must be Jewish But Can you Prove to me from the Quran That:

Ali is Imam el Zaman and The 9 infallible Imams come from His Son Hussein from his Persian wife

bring me this And I will believe in the twelver concept of Imamah.

[bahrains27]

Here are My Proofs:

Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).[002.047]

God did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. [005.012]

Now bring me proofs from the quran for your concept of Imamah:
That Ali is Imam el Zaman and The 9 infallible Imams come from His Son Hussein from his Persian wife