[BriKevin]

Asalamu Alaykum.

When I ask why barelvi is wrong, you guys claim they do bidah by their dhikr.

Why is dhikr bidah?

[Jxlacvio]

Asalamu Alaykum.

When I ask why barelvi is wrong, you guys claim they do bidah by their dhikr.

Why is dhikr bidah?

Was-salâmu 'alaykum wa rahmatullâhi wa barakatuhu`
No idea but I would assume whoever it is you spoke to may be referring to loud/group dhikr.
Even thou to my knowledge to say just the barelvi do this sounds like a complete joke to me and just those to love bashing others.
Have a read of this, Inshallah it will answeryour question:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=796

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=786&CATE=3

Allah knows best.

[BriKevin]

Was-salâmu 'alaykum wa rahmatullâhi wa barakatuhu`
No idea but I would assume whoever it is you spoke to may be referring to loud/group dhikr.
Even thou to my knowledge to say just the barelvi do this sounds like a complete joke to me and just those to love bashing others.
Have a read of this, Inshallah it will answeryour question:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=796

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=786&CATE=3

Allah knows best.

Qibla and Sunnipath is the same, and they are both sufi. And they agree on this.

[Carfanate]

This is a summary I wrote:

As in most contentious issues the position of the Deobandi Akabir fall in between the excesses of the extreme Sufis (e.g. Barelwis), who tend to grant blanket legitimisation and exaggeration to every concept, and the literalists (e.g. Salafis), who dismiss anything and everything that is beyond their chaotically varying intellects.

Zikr Khafi (Silent Zikr) is Afdhal (most superior) by Ijma’, except where specifically prescribed by the Sunnah (such as the group Takbir during Eid ul-adha).

Zikr Jahr Mufreet (Loud Zikr with excessive loudness) is impermissible in all situations, by Ijma’

Zikr Jahr (Loud Zikr without excessive loudness) is permissible for individual ibadah, as long as no one else is disturbed, and as long it is not against the laws of the Shariah (e.g. Loud tilawat of the Qur’an is permissible whereas reading the Zuhr Salat loudly would not be).

Zikr Jahr practices involving chanting in unison, which have no precedent in the Sunnah, and which are likely to be mistaken for Sunnah Ibadah by the participant or the uneducated passer-by, is Bid’ah.

Zikr Jahr practices employed in the privacy of the Khanqah, (such as chanting in unison) which have no precedent in the Sunnah, are permissible as specific medicinal prescriptions to aid the mureed temporarily in combating spiritually harmful maladies such as concentration deficiency, laziness etc. They are akin to repeated recitations of trilateral words and guttural noises, exercises of the tongue, and other actions not found in the Sunnah, employed by the experts of Tajweed, to aid their students gain proficiency in reading the Qur’an correctly. Zikr Jahr practices are also permissible for teaching a group of people. These actions become Bid’ah when the participants of such exercises view them as Sunnah Ibadah.

[Karensmith]

Asalamu Alaykum.

When I ask why barelvi is wrong, you guys claim they do bidah by their dhikr.

Why is dhikr bidah?

Who said this?

Berelvi's themselves are bid'ah - not their dhikr.

[BriKevin]

Who said this?

Berelvi's themselves are bid'ah - not their dhikr.

How is barelvi a bidah? Deobandi is almost the same as barelvi, except that barelvi is sufi, and sufi don't care about worldy gains, only about hte hereafter (teoretically)

[LsrSRVxR]

sufi is different from Barelvi.

Barelvi's Aqeedah has few problems like they believe that if they do Dhikr Majlis, Rasool saw presence would come there.
They

[Jxlacvio]

How is barelvi a bidah? Deobandi is almost the same as barelvi, except that barelvi is sufi, and sufi don't care about worldy gains, only about hte hereafter (teoretically)

Salam,
Deobandhi and Barelvi have their differences.
Deobandhi are also sufi, in fact of you look at the elders a lot of them if not all of them were Sufi and part of Tariqa.
This forum is mostly a deobandhi forum so In my opinion you will hear/get told a lot of stuff about Barelvi some of which will be true some of which won't be true.
Best thing to do is to speak to someone you know imam of a mosque/sheikh/scholar if you want to learn the differences .. maybe even see scholars and sheikhs from both sides to be fair.

I am neither Barelvi or Deobandhi and prefer not to get caught in all this name calling etc.

Allah knows best.

[Karensmith]

How is barelvi a bidah? Deobandi is almost the same as barelvi, except that barelvi is sufi, and sufi don't care about worldy gains, only about hte hereafter (teoretically)

Whatttt? so ALL berelvi's are just a sufi version of deo's...?

Okayy. That's news!

[dosyrotsbop]

How is barelvi a bidah? Deobandi is almost the same as barelvi, except that barelvi is sufi, and sufi don't care about worldy gains, only about hte hereafter (teoretically)

What is clear is that you don't know what you are mumbling about.

[GetsTan]

What exactly constitutes as 'sufi'?

... Similarly a true shaykh of tasawwuf (sufism) never breaks even the smallest tenets of the shariah or the sunnah. Rather, he sees them as the means of his progress towards his Lord. In fact, he prefers death over falling into even a minute sin.

I saw a holy man on the seashore wounded by a tiger.
No medicine could relieve his pain; He suffered much,
but he nevertheless constantly thanked God, the most high, saying,
"Praise be to Allah that I have fallen into a calamity and not into sin." from tasawwuf.org

[BriKevin]

Okay so the discussion was about dhikr, and you are instead trying to annoy me?

[GetsTan]

I can assure you at least I was not trying to annoy you.

However, your title does mention sufi in it, making me wonder what do you consider a sufi.

[Karensmith]

Okay so the discussion was about dhikr, and you are instead trying to annoy me?

Hey, don't get annoyed. Actually we just testing out how sufi berelvi's really are.

I dunno if you pass.... sufi's aren't supposed to get annoyed for such trivial stuff. And even if they do get annoyed they're supposed to put their head down, pick up a tasbeeh and start making thikr.

[BriKevin]

I'm asking about dhikr not about sufism, I know what sufism is.

[hitaEtela]

A better question would be what do you consider dhikr? Because a person can have a rock band and play some songs and call that "dhikr"! And some people actually do this if you know what qawwalis are.

Dhikr is confined within shari'ah. Anything that violates shari'ah and props itself up as dhikr is hollow and a sin. Therefore, some forms of "dhikr" that are not found in the shari'ah are a bid'ah and may even be haraam.

[treawittelf]

A better question would be what do you consider dhikr? Because a person can have a rock band and play some songs and call that "dhikr"! And some people actually do this if you know what qawwalis are.

Dhikr is confined within shari'ah. Anything that violates shari'ah and props itself up as dhikr is hollow and a sin. Therefore, some forms of "dhikr" that are not found in the shari'ah are a bid'ah and may even be haraam.

Mashallah, what a beautiful answer. May Allah reward you and us all. Ameen

[GillTeepbew]

Hey, don't get annoyed. Actually we just testing out how sufi berelvi's really are.

I dunno if you pass.... sufi's aren't supposed to get annoyed for such trivial stuff. And even if they do get annoyed they're supposed to put their head down, pick up a tasbeeh and start making thikr.

what a beautiful riminder, also too much hate talk some brothers do and it is so unsufi

[BriKevin]

If so, then explain what sharia says about dhikr?

[AlexanderPalamayr]

I too have a question, some salafis asked me about Sufi dikhirs like in the Naqhbandiya tariqah. Are they biddah ? :jzk: