[AdipexAdipex]

Many people now a days have taken the concept of ta'addud and turned it into like leasing cars or playing with dolls, the matter isnt so simple and easy. Some dont even have one wife, or can barely handle the one wife they have, and are seeing dreams (more like hallucinating) of practicing ta'addud.

But let us put our hereafter in front of us and look at the tough questions. In reality what is the demand of taqwa when it comes to practicing ta'addud? How should ta'addud be practiced and how did our buzrughs our akabireen practice it? Our buzrughs, ulama of high caliber, who we listen to, read, and try to emulate, they gave so much sacrifice for deen. They were masters of Quran and Hadith, practical demonstration of sunnah, and we try to follow in their footsteps and their supervision and shadow is over us, how did they practice ta'addud? Let us see an incident from the life of Hakeem ul Ummat (ra) as explained by his elite khalifa Hazrat Jalalabadi Moulana Masihullah Khan Sherwani (ra):

Taken from "For Friends" Volume 15, courtesy of Hazrat Dr. Ismail Mangera sahib (db) (eminent khalifah of Hazrat Jalalabadi ra):

His Fairness and Justice - Qissah of the Two Melons

Once a peasant farmer brought two melons and gave it to Hadhratwala (Hakeem ul Ummat ra), "One was enough why did you bring two?" In the simple, straightforward manner of the rural people, the peasant replied, "Who does not know that you have two wives? The one is for the one wife and the other is for the other." Hadhratwala (ra) said, "Very well, but, dear brother, they should be exactly equal." Just take note that the melons should be exactly equal in order that the one wife receives exactly the same as the other wife.

Many people have a great desire to marry a second wife. In fact, Hadhratwala's (ra) first wife once remarked to Hadhratwala, "By marrying a second wife you have opened the road for your muridin to marry second wives also!" Hadhratwala (ra) replied, "To the contrary, I have closed the road!" She said, "Closed the road? In which manner?" Hadhratwala (ra) said, "My muridin witness all the time how I treat both of you with complete fairness and justice. Every item is shared equally between the two of you. If some parcel is tied in a string and is given to me then the item is divided equally. For measuring there is a scale present in the khanqah. Also, that very string is cut and given equally to the two of you. What goes to one goes to the other." Nowadays even one wife is not treated with fairness and justice, so how will justice be done between two wives?

To continue: The peasant responded, "I know you. You are particular about being equal, therefore I have weighed both melons before coming. You can weigh them and see for yourself. There is your scale." Hadhratwala (ra) weighed the melons and, really, they were of equal weight! Hadhratwala (ra) then said, "Fine. They are of equal weight. But show me, out of the two which is the sweeter one and which is not so sweet?"

Just ponder: To what degree is there fairness and justice? To what extent is there mujahadah with the nafs? To what extent is there riyadhat? How much effort is not undertaken?

The peasant said, "You draw very fine lines! Did I thrust myself into them? I do not know." Hadhratwala (ra) said, "Not to worry." He took a knife and cut both of the melons in half, setting one half of each melon into the one pan of the scale and the other half of each melon into the other pan. Adjusting them until they were equal he sent one set to the one wife and the other set to the other wife. Now there was equality. What an extremely high level of taqwa does this not demonstrate!

---He goes onto say---

I am attempting to show you the qualities of our akabir who preceded us. Hadhratwala (ra) used to say - and in this was no boasting but an invitation to simulate - "When I am having marital relations with my one wife I consider it haraam to hold the picture in my mind of my second wife at that particular time - I see that a mental image of hers should not come." Hadhratwala (ra) used to say, "These are the very fine points. To control ones thoughts is very difficult. But I consider it to be haraam and I avoid this visualising."

So we see here this incident the reality of ta'addud and its practical demonstration from people who were imams of taqwa of their time and teachers and shuyookh of ulama and mashaikheen. The matter is just over two melons and thoughts yet we see here to what degree a man needs to give justice and fairness when practicing ta'addud. We see it practically demonstrated by none other than Hakeem ul Ummat. This was a reality check and a wake up call for us who are dreaming of ta'addud, and now we have woken up from the dream and are seeing in reality and practicality to what degree of taqwa we need to implement justice and fairness between multiple wives. Dealings with the wife is a serious issue that we will be separately questioned for on the day of judgement, it is the easiest relationship to commit oppression in.

[jarsbars]

Hazrat Shaikh,

Please transfer this to the ta'addud thread and we can have a decent peaceful discussion about whether a person is required to do such adl by shariat or not. We can also discuss the definition of ADL defined clearly by great Imams of Fiqh. We can also discuss the practice of our Nabi and Sahaba insha'Allah.

I would like to discuss this paragraph particularly:

Many people have a great desire to marry a second wife. In fact, Hadhratwala's (ra) first wife once remarked to Hadhratwala, "By marrying a second wife you have opened the road for your muridin to marry second wives also!" Hadhratwala (ra) replied, "To the contrary, I have closed the road!" She said, "Closed the road? In which manner?" Hadhratwala (ra) said, "My muridin witness all the time how I treat both of you with complete fairness and justice. Every item is shared equally between the two of you. If some parcel is tied in a string and is given to me then the item is divided equally. For measuring there is a scale present in the khanqah. Also, that very string is cut and given equally to the two of you. What goes to one goes to the other." Nowadays even one wife is not treated with fairness and justice, so how will justice be done between two wives? But only if you people don't come pounding on me saying i'm a Gustaakh.

I have some questions regarding this paragraph, if you allow me to ask.

But one question I'd like to ask is:

The practice of our Nabi , The practice of Sahaba, The ayat of Quran, the tafseer of it encouraging us, The hadith of Ibn e Abbas , all the great imams and fuqaha, everyone aside. All this on one side. All this is put in the back because of a saying of Hazrat Hakeem ul Ummah rahimahullah.

IS THIS FAIR?

Is this the true image of Islam you want to portray?

[Narcodran]

Hazrat Shaikh,

Please transfer this to the ta'addud thread and we can have a decent peaceful discussion about whether a person is required to do such adl by shariat or not. We can also discuss the definition of ADL defined clearly by great Imams of Fiqh. We can also discuss the practice of our Nabi and Sahaba insha'Allah.

I would like to discuss this paragraph particularly:



But only if you people don't come pounding on me saying i'm a Gustaakh.

I have some questions regarding this paragraph, if you allow me to ask.

But one question I'd like to ask is:

The practice of our Nabi , The practice of Sahaba, The ayat of Quran, the tafseer of it encouraging us, The hadith of Ibn e Abbas , all the great imams and fuqaha, everyone aside. All this on one side. All this is put in the back because of a saying of Hazrat Hakeem ul Ummah rahimahullah.

IS THIS FAIR?

Is this the true image of Islam you want to portray?

Brother taliban, you are not seeing the big picture. By restricting yourself to Hanafism and deobandism, you will have to accept the teachings of these so called "Akabireen". In your worldview, Islam revolves around the practice and sayings of these so called akabireen, particularly those from Deoband. This is why I invite you to leave it and liberate yourself by only believing in Quran and Hadith. It will be a very liberating experience for you.

[jarsbars]

Brother taliban, you are not seeing the big picture. By restricting yourself to Hanafism and deobandism, you will have to accept the teachings of these so called "Akabireen". In your worldview, Islam revolves around the practice and sayings of these so called akabireen, particularly those from Deoband. This is why I invite you to leave it and liberate yourself by only believing in Quran and Hadith. It will be a very liberating experience for you.

Dear Brother,



Actually, neither is this Hanafism nor is this Deobandism. This is Shaikism. This is no where related to Hanafism or Deobandism. Alhamdulillah, I do believe in Quran and Sunnah (not just hadith :P). I'm already liberated, I need no more liberating. But I invite you to study deeply the wisdom of Hanafi Fuqaha found in our Fiqh books and you will truly liberate yourself from many misconceptions.

Being Hanafi or Deobandi means to follow Quran, Sunnah and Jamaat (Sahaba). It doesn't mean to put aside everything and following one saying just because it suits us. This is what the shaikh is trying to do. Bring in one saying of Hazrat Hakeem ul Ummah Rahimahullah and use it to justify his own discouragement of Ta'addud while Allah and his Rasool encouraged it (as it has been amply proved in the ta'addud thread).

Islam doesn't need any takallufaat. Islam is takalluf-free. No need to put conditions on one's self which arsen't put there by Shariat.

I'll wait for the Shaikh to come and discuss this open mindedly with me, otherwise I'll just stick to my opinion that it is indeen a close minded shaikism where theres no room for discussion - No Questions Asked. Just follow us.

Thank you very much.

[Azzi_Kahlila]

SHAIKHISM?what is that Brother? Never heard of this Madhab?

[!!!maryann!!!]

Assalamu alaikum, I hope Moulana Taliban1 understands the difference between the fairness defined by the books of fiqh and fairness in front of Allah. The two are not the same.

If a husband tells his wife to cook and the wife says "no" and they both go to court, according to fiqh the court must side with the wife and say she does not have to cook, even though she will be sinful for disobeying the husband in a permissible action. Fiqh is talking about what the courts can enforce, not necessarily what is sinful and what is not.

Show me in one place in a fiqh book where it talks about khushu and khudu. It does not.

My post is not about ta'addud. It is about some systematic misunderstandings which I see in some of your understanding and reasonings.

Again since I am not qualified "a'lim" my "opinion" may not matter to Moulana Taliban1, even though many big name scholars have changed their position after speaking to me on a range of topics covering most of the chapters of fiqh.

[Narcodran]

Assalamu alaikum, I hope Moulana Taliban1 understands the difference between the fairness defined by the books of fiqh and fairness in front of Allah. The two are not the same.

If a husband tells his wife to cook and the wife says "no" and they both go to court, according to fiqh the court must side with the wife and say she does not have to cook, even though she will be sinful for disobeying the husband in a permissible action.

How confusing. So Islam says that a woman must obey her husband and she is sinful for disobeying him, but something called fiqh says that she doesn't have to obey her husband? You people have always been portraying fiqh as an understanding of Islam but more and more it seems your fiqh is actually something other than Islam.

[Nfxutkpa]

prophet mohammed s.a.w. himself sometimes gave different answers to same questions,but posed by different people

is it not the case most men are not masculine enough to handle even 1 wife properly let alone 2
and most women are not feminine enough to be subservient co wives

but alhamdulillah im sure there are a few masculine and feminine good muslims out there still

and what will the widows do when many men die in the wars which are coming

[Narcodran]

This moron has an intelectual capacity of a donkey!!
I feel sorry for the soul married to him!! perhaps threatenin to talaq is a way of control along with psudeo mutah

This is the second time you spelt "pseudo" wrong!

[Nfxutkpa]

and it is a sad reality parents are not even treating children equally,
the problem is the condition of most muslims

but some may be capable of many great achievements
as allah will make them for certain situations which are coming on the ummah

and allah knows best

[!!!maryann!!!]

How confusing. So Islam says that a woman must obey her husband and she is sinful for disobeying him, but something called fiqh says that she doesn't have to obey her husband? You people have always been portraying fiqh as an understanding of Islam but more and more it seems your fiqh is actually something other than Islam.

Salafis such as yourself cannot understand what fiqh and qada is. Salafis also don't understand what is kalam and logic and so lash out against Imam Ghazzali and others. So I am not surprised by your failure to understand.

[Narcodran]

Salafis such as yourself cannot understand what fiqh and qada is. Salafis also don't understand what is kalam and logic and so lash out against Imam Ghazzali and others. So I am not surprised by your failure to understand.

We Salafis can only understand things that make sense, like Quran and Hadith. As for your fiqh, alas we must confess it is beyond our understanding.

[!!!maryann!!!]

We Salafis can only understand things that make sense, like Quran and Hadith. As for your fiqh, alas we must confess it is beyond our understanding.

Maybe our fiqh is a deeper understanding of Quran and sunnah. If you don't understand it then please don't comment and say it is incorrect. Your knowledge is not complete and have husne zann of majority of the scholars of Islam.

[SimSlim]

We Salafis can only understand things that make sense, like Quran and Hadith. As for your fiqh, alas we must confess it is beyond our understanding.

It seems you don't even the fiqh of your own elders such as Shaykh Ibn Abd al-Wahhab who was a pure Hanbali. It seems you don't even know the fiqh of your present day Ulama such as Shaykh Fawzaan who says the student of knowledge who has not reached ijtihad is STILL obliged to follow a MADHHAB.

Go argue with these Salafi madhhabis first.

[VomsVomaMew]

This is the second time you spelt "pseudo" wrong!

Only a pseudo can spell it right?

[Narcodran]

It seems you don't even the fiqh of your own elders such as Shaykh Ibn Abd al-Wahhab who was a pure Hanbali. It seems you don't even know the fiqh of your present day Ulama such as Shaykh Fawzaan who says the student of knowledge who has not reached ijtihad is STILL obliged to follow a MADHHAB.

Go argue with these Salafi madhhabis first.

What on earth is a pure Hanbali? Perhaps you mean someone who blindly follows the madhab even when it conflicts with Quran and Hadith? If that is your intention, then in fact Imam Muhammad b. Abdul Wahhab was not a pure Hanbali, for he said:

"If a person is learning fiqh from one of the four madhhabs, then he sees a hadeeth that opposes his madhhab; and so he follows it and leaves his madhhab - then this is recommended, rather it is obligatory upon him when the proof has been made clear to him." (Ad-Durur-Saniyyah (4/7))

[VomsVomaMew]

What on earth is a pure Hanbali? Perhaps you mean someone who blindly follows the madhab even when it conflicts with Quran and Hadith? If that is your intention, then in fact Imam Muhammad b. Abdul Wahhab was not a pure Hanbali, for he said:

"If a person is learning fiqh from one of the four madhhabs, then he sees a hadeeth that opposes his madhhab; and so he follows it and leaves his madhhab - then this is recommended, rather it is obligatory upon him when the proof has been made clear to him." (Ad-Durur-Saniyyah (4/7))

Can you highlight the conflicts of the Hanbali Madhab with Qur'an and Hadith?

On the gradings of Hadith you are blindly following the Hadith Collectors? You accept a Hadith as Sahih only on the authority of the Hadith Collector.

Why do you blindly follow them?????

[Cuccuccaltefe]

To the Salafi:

The Quran and Hadith are vast, you are seriously suggesting that every individual Muslim should approach them directly and take out the laws they need? If so this is stupidity you are suggesting, everyone will be busy doing that and nothing else and everyone will have their own narrow opinion leading to absolute break up of the Islamic ummah. How should one perform wudu? Go to the Quran and Hadith directly and find out?

Marrying more than one woman is a sunnah and there is no reason to discourage people from doing it. Yes it involves greater hardship maybe, and more justice and scrupulousness on the part of the man, but nevertheless it is a sunnah and Muslims will benefit from practising the sunnah. In Palestine for example if Muslims married more that one woman and had children with them, very soon they would out number the Jews. Instead they kill their own youth by encouraging them to perform suicide (which is stupidity and they have lost the Mercy of Allah).

[VomsVomaMew]

We Salafis can only understand things that make sense, like Quran and Hadith. As for your fiqh, alas we must confess it is beyond our understanding.

GOLDEN WORDS. Fiqh is Understanding. If it is beyond your Understanding, then we call such people as FOOLS

[dalnecymync]

Bismihee Ta'aala

Asalmaualaikum

Pleas take this fiqh debate somewhere else. This is about ta'addud. If you want, start a new thread.