[Rtebydou]

Salaams all.. I want to go to university insh'Allah and study and get a good job by the end of it.. not for my self but for my mum.. that has always been my dream.. yes it will benefit me if Allah Paak wills but mainly to make my mums life better and give them and my family everything and not to worry about anything.

But we are not well off and I am from a single parent family living only with my MUM so I wont be able to afford the fees by the looks of things, and the only option I have is taking a loan out and most definatley I do not want to go against Allah Paak and there rulings.. would it be permissible for me to take a loan out? I asked an alim and they said HARAAM full stop!! What do you all think? Also look below for my next question.


as far as I know.. from navel to knees is (sitre awrat) for men which means covering and is haraam to see this area of another man... but I was wondering isit permissible to play a sport called rugby.. the shorts are above the knees..id say half way down the thighs... I would not be looking at the men in a way of lust.. but rather just getting on with the game!

and reason for playing rugby is yes its a sport and its good for fitness but may help me get a scolarship for university which may mean I would'nt have to pay intrest or uni fees. please help

Jazak'Allah

[Rtebydou]

nobody?????????????///

[Lenkapuppia]

Assalamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Firstly, I am not a scholar but I can tell you something about university fees inshaa Allah. Now in the UK the fees have jumped upto £9000! a year which I feel is very difficult to pay off in a halal manner. You should never ever dare to take a student loan because it definitely involves interest and I know sisters in the situation where they realise later that this is wrong and now they are in a huge dillema. However, I promise you trust in Allah and Allah will inshaa Allah show you the way. I have never had to take a student loan although we are not that wealthy of a family either. If Allah wills it for you it comes your way. One other way is to get a loan from a family member or friend and pay it back without interest later on. One more way is to have a well skilled part time job (as in learn a new skill- something that people will greatly benefit from and are willing to pay you more) they give you about £3000 grant, so you have £6000 to pay, if you manage to earn £200 a week or more you can make this amount in 30 weeks inshaa Allah. You are also bound to get a grant by the uni so that will lower your overall paying fee. If you do get into uni, then go for summer placements which will pay you a good amount. Another option is to do a cheaper degree in a cheaper uni. Or do something like nursing or Operating Department Practise DipHE where you will be funded by the NHS.

Now, if you examine all circumstances and you decide that there is no way you can pay off fees then I urge to you to consider the open uni before March ASAP as they will also be increasing fees, but if you can manage to start your degree (distance based) before September you will have current fees plus their good financial support.

Allah knows best and I pray that He makes it easier for you. Ameen.

http://wwwm.coventry.ac.uk/course/ug...erlay-FeesText
http://www.open.ac.uk/

[Unoloknovagog]

In Germany , university education is quite cheap. Only 500 euro per semester. Students from China come to Germany , learn the language for six months or one year. Then , they get admitted into German university . And as far as I know , German education in medicine and engineering has the highest quality in Europe !!

[tutkarussia]

From what some of the recent graduates have been saying at work ... if your a british citizen and you go to the EU to study, its free? (excluding Scotland and Wales and maybe Ireland) And same for EU students, if they come to England to study, its free.

You only have to pay for living accomodations not tuition and pay for books I guess. But most of these can be found in the library, even if you go to Unis here.

I'm not sure about sending kids abroad though? But that is one option for not taking a loan out and paying fees

[seicslybearee]

Salaam fellow student, this doesn't apply to me, but Universities such as Manchester offer an access program which allows students (who's parents didn't attend university) access to a course e.g. Medicine entry onto the course with lower grade boundaries and a fee discount.

You should also check out 'Realising Opportunities'
http://www.realisingopportunities.ac.uk/

-this is something which sixth forms and colleges offer students, it applies to the top 10 universities in the UK,
basically it = lower grade boundaries and depending on the University bursaries and grants are also rewarded to successful applicants.


I hope this was of some help.

[ANCETPYNCTEXT]

What course do you plan on doing?
I have been told that certain NHS related courses don't have a fee, the NHS pay for it. You may want to consider going into that route?

[Rtebydou]

dentistry, medicine,pharmacy or veternary medicine

What course do you plan on doing?
I have been told that certain NHS related courses don't have a fee, the NHS pay for it. You may want to consider going into that route?

[ANCETPYNCTEXT]

dentistry, medicine,pharmacy or veternary medicine

Ok. Good choices mashaAllah, I'm sure if they're NHS funded courses though.

Can somebody shed some light on this university fee issue? Can Muslims take out these loans if not are there any solutions from Islamic banks?

[Rtebydou]

Thank you brother.. im not the brightest but im trying and insh'Allah with you all and closest too me's duas .. Hopefulyl I will get there. and no there are no bursaries etc.. you have to pay £9000 per year.. and there like 4-5 year courses.

Nobody has actually answered my question wether sood would become punishable or haram in this case? my intention is not for pleasure purposes.. my aim is too get into a good course which will eventually insh'Allah take me to a good job with the loan I take out. and with that I shall look after my family n insh'Allah help the poor all around the world and the less fortunate. ALLAH PAAK WILLINGLY OF COURSE

Ok. Good choices mashaAllah, I'm sure if they're NHS funded courses though.

Can somebody shed some light on this university fee issue? Can Muslims take out these loans if not are there any solutions from Islamic banks?

[corkBrobe]

brother. I don't have a reply to your question specifically but noticed this new thread that you may have already read: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ght=university perhaps there is something similar in the UK?

[Rtebydou]

Jazak sister.. I dont think they do unfortuantley.. but I wonder if it would be possible to maybe study abroad? but from I have heard Britain has if not the best, one of the top education systems in the world. and its recognised everywhere.. where some countries may not.

brother. I don't have a reply to your question specifically but noticed this new thread that you may have already read: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ght=university perhaps there is something similar in the UK?

[Lenkapuppia]

Whenever you hear the word "interest" stay away and never go near. It is not an absolute necessity to do a degree so you don't need this loan. Trust me brother if you get into £25,000 debt and then realise later that I shouldn't have taken the loan due to interest it will be hard (inshaa Allah). Consider viewing this site:

http://www.scholars4dev.com/4031/lis...ties-colleges/

Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam Al Kawthari on student loans:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...ID=380&CATE=43

[rasiasertew]

Does this apply to the students who have taken out £3340 tuition fee loan this year or in few previous year because i think they are advertised as interest free but when you pay back, its adjusted with the inflation rate.

Question:
When starting University in the UK, you can take out a student loan from the Local Education Authority (LEA). The LEA claim the student loan has zero percent interest. However, due to the fact that the loan may be paid back over a long period of time, the LEA take inflation into consideration and charge a tiny bit more when you are paying back the loan. This type of loan from the LEA is different to a standard student loan from a bank. Some brothers say this student loan is halal, since on the contract it says zero percent interest, and we should be concerned with the contract. They also say inflation is not interest, rather, inflation is paying back the same value as you borrowed, which is the correct thing to do from Islam. Other brothers say, inflation is still making money on money, which is Riba and therefore, haram. Please could you clarify this issue. The answer to this question, will determine whether some brothers will be able to continue further education or not, because they are not prepared to declare war on Allah (SWT) and His Rasool (SAW). At the same time, their families can not support them at University.

Answer:


In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

It should be kept in mind that, according to Shariah, giving a loan is considered an act of worship and good towards those who are in need. Merely lending money is not, however, a permitted means of seeking financial benefit.

The great reward of lending those in need has been mentioned in many hadiths of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace). A person is not obliged to give a loan, however, as it is a total voluntary act, as the scholars of the Sunni path have explained. [Sarakhsi, al-Mabsut, 14.36; Ibn Qudama,al-Mughni, 4.207-208; Nawawi/Shirbini, Mughni al-Muhtaj Sharh al-Minhaj, 3.29-30; Dardir/Dasuqi,Hashiyat al-Dasuqi `ala al-Sharh al-Kabir, 3.222-223]

Therefore, according to the Noble Shariah, if one wishes to reap the rewards promised upon giving a loan, it must be givenwithout asking for any profit upon what is loaned out.

However, if one wishes to also acquire some financial gain, it can be done by entering in to a financial contract involving risk-sharing, such as enterprise (shirkah or mudarabah, for example).

In this case one will have to also bear the loss incurred (if any) by the debtor.

How must a loan be re-paid?

If one gives a loan to another, it must be re-paid in the same manner and equally (mithl). This is a ruling agreed upon by all the scholars.

The question arises here that, what is meant by ‘Mithl’? Does being equal mean: similarity in weight, measurement and quantity or in value and worth?

By looking into the evidences of the Qur’an, Sunnah and discussions of the great jurists of Islam, it becomes clear that the similarity which is required here is in quantity and magnitude, not in value.

There are many evidences for this. Some are mentioned below:

1) Abu Sa`id al-Khudri and Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with them) narrate that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) appointed a person as a governor of Khaybar. This governor brought to the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) high quality dates of Khaybar. The Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) asked: “Are all the dates of Khaybar like this?” He replied: “By Allah, no, O Messenger of Allah! We barter one measures (sa`) of this type of dates for two measures (sa`) of our own (normal & inferior quality) dates, and two measures (sa`)s for three of ours. The Messenger of Allah said: “Do not do so (as this will be considered usury). Rather, sell the dates of inferior quality, and then buy the good quality dates with that money.” (Recorded by Imam al-Bukhari and Imam Muslim)

Both the fuqaha and hadith commentators have explained that the above narration is clear evidence on the fact that when dealing in usurious goods, the similarity which is required is in quantity and not value

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) did not differentiate between the two types of dates and did not permit for them to be exchanged unless if they were equal in weight, despite the fact that one was of a better quality than the other

2) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do not sell gold for gold unless equal in weight and do not sell silver for silver unless equal in weight. Whosoever gives or demands more, then this is interest” (Recorded by al-Bukhari, Muslim and others).

This and many other similar narrations imply that, when exchanging, there should be total equality in quantity and measurement. If it is a loan, then this becomes more necessary.

3) If a person was to give one kilo of wheat as a loan, the value of which was, for example: two pounds. Now at the time of repaying this loan, the price of one kilo wheat fell to one pound. In this case all the fuqaha (jurists) are unanimous that he will still give one kilo back and not half kilo due to the fall and decreasing in the value of wheat. [Ibn Hazm, al-Muhalla,6.347; Ibn Qudama, al-Mughni, 4.207; Dardir, al-Sharh al-Saghir; 3.290-291; Haskafi, al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 5.161]

The above and other evidences prove that when a loan is paid back then the rate of inflation is not considered according to Shariah. One can only claim back exactly the amount which was given as loan. Anything other than this will be considered as Riba and thus unlawful (Haram) and sinful

It is akin to the situation where one places his money in a safe or money box and thereafter takes the money out after few years. It is obvious that the money which he will take out will be exactly the same as he put in. It will not increase or decrease due to inflation or deflation!

So what about inflation?

As far as the using of the term ‘inflation’ is concerned, it should be noted that there is a principle in Islamic Jurisprudence which says:

“Consideration is given to the substance of the transaction and not the terms used.” [Kasani, Bada’i` al-Sana’i`5.3; Marghinani, al-Hidaya, [with Ibn al-Humam’sFath al-Qadir], 7.132; Zayla`i, Tabyin al-Haqa’iq, 4.112; Majallat al-Ahkam al-`Adliyya, item #3 [explained in detail by Ali Haydar in Durrar al-Hukkam Sharh Majallat al-Ahkam, 1.21]

Whether we call it inflation or something else, the reality is that it is exchanging money for money with more from one side which is Riba and unlawful.

In conclusion, to take out the type of student loan mentioned in the question is considered Riba and not permissible. Those students who do not have anybody to support them should consider and look at other possible alternatives. One may look for a part time job or even consider finding a relative or friend who will assist by giving a interest free, even loan (without accounting for inflation).

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

[Lenkapuppia]

Does this apply to the students who have taken out £3340 tuition fee loan this year or in few previous year because i think they are advertised as interest free but when you pay back, its adjusted with the inflation rate.

In reality if you do some research you will find that they do mention an interest rate. For the current tuition fees there was a 2-3% interest rate clearly stated in one of their booklets. I believe students know very well that they won't be paying back the same amount, they know they will have to pay more. A Muslim needs to be careful as this is a serious issue. Some Muslim students become relaxed and outrightly give necessity as an excuse and go for it. Nobody should be naive in this regard, we should act out of precaution if we don't think there is interest (which there is). That is, we should shiver when we hear such a debate, for we know riba is a major sin and we just leave it there. For the one who choses the halal path, Allah will bless them and grant them more inshaa Allah. You might think you come from a poor family, but believe me it is amazing how Allah will help you if you remain obediant.

As for the very past, I think there used to be something called the tuition grant? Where tuition fees could be payed off by that? Now that system is no longer in use for a few years now. All I would advise my brethren is that they should never go near interest, not even a student loan. If you really have to, get a job and work for a few years before you get to university.

[Zzvukttz]

Whenever you hear the word "interest" stay away and never go near. It is not an absolute necessity to do a degree so you don't need this loan. Trust me brother if you get into £25,000 debt and then realise later that I shouldn't have taken the loan due to interest it will be hard (inshaa Allah). Consider viewing this site:

http://www.scholars4dev.com/4031/lis...ties-colleges/

Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam Al Kawthari on student loans:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...ID=380&CATE=43

Great feedback !! Many Muslim students are lured by the student loans which are really traps. This trap is explained in this article.


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http://www.henrymakow.com/greekfilmmakescase.html

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Andrew said (June 20, 2011):

And let's not forget the vicious trap of student loans and institutions dolling out money to income-less, asset-less kids desperate to get qualified on the on the flimsiest guarantee of 'potential future earnings'. Particularly odious for their serpentine entrapment of the young and naive.

#######

More on usury is here.

########
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-global-empire
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ey-and-bankers
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-middle-class
############

[Geetiill]

I dont think they do unfortuantley.. but I wonder if it would be possible to maybe study abroad? but from I have heard Britain has if not the best, one of the top education systems in the world. and its recognised everywhere.. where some countries may not.

[Zzvukttz]

I dont think they do unfortuantley.. but I wonder if it would be possible to maybe study abroad? but from I have heard Britain has if not the best, one of the top education systems in the world. and its recognised everywhere.. where some countries may not.

In Europe , Germany might be the best in engineering and medical education. But , in finance , banking and other usury related subjects , England is the best.

Muslim students should avoid usury related subjects. Then what is left ?

I think , someone should start a thread like " Getting top-quality education without falling in the traps of student loans or usury ".

[Zzvukttz]

Just started a new thread that wiill promote usury free education in a focussed manner.

#########

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-loan-or-usury

#########

[20170721yuanyuan]

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