you mean Qadi Iyad's view? I didn't know outright rejection of Sunnah still maintains a person as muslim....hmmm

wa3alikumusalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

From the little that I know, in the Maliki mad'hab the verses of the Quran are seen of three categories : nas ( verses that are of clear and explicit meaning ), dhahir ( verses that are clear but can have more than one meaning ), mujmal ( verses that are neither clear and can have various meanings), and so for the dhahir and mujmal to be converted to nas' , the hadith comes into work, which make their meaning explicit and clear. The maliki school does hold that the hadith can aborgate the Quran, and make its general specific, and likewise it contains rulings that may not be the Quran, and which hold equally important, thus being at a primary significance with the Kitab. the Maliki usool clearly holds that the Quran without the hadith/sunnah/amal is incomplete. See the principles of fiqh by Abu Zahra.

all hadiths of bukhari regarding gog and magog
http://www.guidedways.com/searchHadi...rds_display=25

all hadiths of muslim regarding gog and magog
http://www.guidedways.com/searchHadi...rds_display=25

there is no hadith ralated with gog and magog in muatta and abu daud

all hadiths of tirmijhi regarding gog and magog
1. Sayyidah Zaynab bint Jahsh (RA) narrated Allah’s Messenger (SAW) got up from sleep once and his face had turned red. He was reciting, 'There is no God but Allah.' He repeated it three times. “There is trouble for the Arabs from this mischief which is near. he waH of Yajuj and Majuj has been opened this much”, indicating with his fingers a round circle. Sayyidah Zaynab (RA) said, “O Messenger of Allah, (SAW) will they perish while we, righteous people are among them?” He said, “Yes if evil overwhelms.”

2. Sayyidina Nawwas narrated: "Allah's Messenger (SAW) mentioned Dajjal one day. He exposed his baseness and emphasized his mischief till we thought he was behind the palm trees. We then dispersed from Allah's Messenger (SAW) only to return shortly. He recognized our state of mind and said, 'How is it with you?' We said, 'O Messenger of Allah! You mentioned Dajjal and made it soft as well as emphatic so that we imagined he was behind some palms. (they meant: He is so sure to come). He said: 'More fearful to me than the Dajjal (are some other things), for if hje emerges while I am among you then I will content with him on your behalf. And if he comes and I am not among you the let everyone of you contend with him on his behalf, and Allah is my Khalifa over every Muslim (i.e. Allah is the One to protect them from the mischief of Dajjal.) Dajjal wil be a youth with curly hair and one eye. He will resemble Abd Uzza bin Qatan-(a king of pre-Islamic era). So those of you who see him, should recite the initial verses of surah al-Kahf. He will come out from what is between Syria and Iraq and corrupt (people on) right and left. O slaves of Allah, be steadfast.' We said, 'O Merssenger of Allah, how long will he tarry on earth?' He said, 'Forty days, (the first) day like a year, a day like a month, a day like a week and the rest of his days like your days.' We submitted, 'O Messenger of Allah, will a day's prayer suffice us in the day that wouldf be like a year?' He said, 'No but make an estimate for it.' We submitted, 'O Messenger of Allah, what will be his speed of movement on earth?’ He said, “Like rain which is driven forward by the wind. He will come to a people and invite them but they will reject him and return him hl words. So, he will turn away from them and their properties will follow him and they will become bereft of everyting on their hands. He will then come upon another people whom he will invite and they will respond to him and confirm him, so he will command the sky to pour rain. It will pour rain. He will command the earth to grow and it will produce crops. Their pasturing animals will come to them with their humps high, their udders full of milk. He will come upon the waste land and command it to bring forth its treasures. So, they will come out of it and go after him like swarms of bees. He will then summon a young man his youth showing on him with fulness. He will strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces, then he will summon him and he will come revived with a shining, laughing face. While he is like that, Eesa ibn Maryam will descend in the east of Damascus at the white minaret, donned in two Saffron coloured garments, his hands on the wings of two angels. If he lowers his head, it will drip and when he raises it, those drops will fall down like shining pearls. “(This is a description of his extreme radiance). “And no one (who disbelieves) will feel his breath but will die. And, the limit of the reach of his breath will be his sight. He will then seek the dajjal and catch up with him at the gate of LuddO, and he will kill him. Then he will stay on earth as long as Allah wills. Allah will reveal to him, ‘Collect my slaves at Tur, for I have sent there such of My slaves whom no one can fight’. Allah will then send Yajuj and Majuj. They will come as Allah has said: "And they sally forth from every mound." (21 : 96)

The first of them will pass the lake Tibriyah (Tiberias) and drink all its contents. Then the last of them will pass and remark, ‘Indeed, there was once, in here water!’ They will travel till they end up at the mountain of Bayt al Maqdas (Jerusalem). They will recall, ‘We have killed all who were on earth. So, come let us kill those who are in heaven’. They will shoot their arrows into the sky and Allah will return to them their arrows reddened as with blood. (Meanwhile) Eesa ibn Maryam (AS) and his companions will surround them and the head of an ox will seem better to each of them then a hundred dinars are to one of you today. So, Eesa ibn Maryam will turn to Allah with his companions. So, Allah wil send down upon them insects on their necks, and by morning all of them would have perished as though they were one person. Eesa and his companions would descend but not find space of even a span without being filled with their fat, odour and blood. So, Eesa and his companions would again turn to Allah Who will send birds on them. Their necks will be like camel’s and they will carry the corpses away to mahbul. Thereafter, Muslims will kindle fire with their arrows, bows and quivers for seven years. Allah will send down on them rain which no mudhouse or tent will keep out but the earth will be washed and it will shine like glass. Then the earth will be commanded to grow its fruit and other produce and bring back its blessings. A whole group will eat from the pomegrenate and they will shelter themselves under its peel. There will be tremendous blessing in milk so that a whole group of men will be satiated with the milk of one she-camel, a whole tribe with the milk of a cow and a whole family with the milk of a shegoat. while they are thus living, Allah will send a wind that will take away the soul of every believer, but there will remain the evil people who will have sexual intercourse on the roads just as asses have. The Hour will come upon them.

3. Abu Rafi’ reported on the authority of Sayyidina Abu Hurayrah (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said about the Sadd: They (Yajuj and Majuj) dig it every day till they nearly bore a hole in it. Then he who is over them (their chief) says, “Return. We shall bore the hole tomorrow.” So, (they go away and) Allah replaces it stronger than before (This) till the term appointed arrives and Allah intends that they should go and overpower mankind, and the one who is over them will say, “Return. We shall bore the hole tomorrow if Allah wills” - included this proviso. Thus, they will return and find it exactly as they had left it and they will bore the hole and pounce on the people. They will drink all their water (and dry them out). The people will flee from them. They (Yajuj Majuj) will shoot arrows towards the sky and the arrows will come back to them with blood thereon. They will boast, “We have subdued those on earth and have overpowered those in the sky”, showing their hard-heartedness and pride. Then, Allah will grow a worm in their necks and they will perish. And by Him in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad the beasts of the earth will fatten and flourish and give thanks on (eating) their flesh.

4. Sayyidina Hudhayfah ibn Usayd (RA) narrated : Allah’s Messenger (SAW) observed us from his room while we were discussing the Hour. He said, “The hour will not come till you witness ten signs. (They arehttp://discussworldissues.com/forums...icon_smile.gif

(1) Rising of the sun from the west,

(2) Yajuj and Majuj,

(3) The beast,Three times sinking down of the earth.

(4) Sinking in the east,

(5) Sinking in the west and,

(6) Sinking in the Arabian peninsula, and

(7) The fire that will emanate from the depths of Aden and drive men or assemble them and spend the night with them wherever they do and wait over them where they have a nap (in the afternoon).

most of the scholars can not give sound explanation of many hadiths of this topic, suppose bukhari and muslim hadith all the people of hell-fire will be from yajuj majuj, then another bukhari hadith people will continue to make hajj even after the appearance of yajuj majuj.

but imran n. hossein's explanation can match all the hadiths. in Quran it has been mentioned in several verses that Qiyamat has came very near, from tirmijhi hadith we can identify yajuj majuj will be evolved out at the time near Qiyamah, if Allah tells in Quran about 1450 years ago that Qiyamat has been so near, then why muslims still think that qiyamat is so far that yajuj majuj has not yet been evolved out,
and of course yajuj majuj will evolve in step by step, one part of them will also evolve during the time of Jesus that has been mentioned in several hadiths

brother murabit cited one comment from imam ibn kathir mentioning each yajuj majuj possess near 1000 sons, i dont know from where imam ibn kathir got this and what its explanation.

All the things i have written are my comments. my comments may be right or wrong and Allah knows best.

dear brother jaywalker this is what Ibn katheer narrates from one hadith from at tabarani :

"Verily Gog and Magog are from the children of Adam, and if they are sent then indeed they would corrupt the people's livelihood, and no man dies from them except that he would leave behind 1000 from his offsprings.., and behind them are three nations : Taweel, Taries, and Mansek"

‏‏

Salaam

Digging a way out through the barrier until they see sunlight would seem to indicate digging through the wall and beginning to see the sunlight on the other side of the wall. WhY did you think it was digging out of the ground?

The hadith does not indicate they are digging in the dark - only that they stop digging until sunlight can be seen through where they have dug through. If I wanted to dig through a wall 2 bricks thick. After removing two bricks (one in front and one behind it) I would be able to see sunlight coming through the gap I had just made even if it is sunlight on my side, I can see additional sunlight through the hole.

Lake Tiberias is at its lowest ever recorded level. This was reported by Jewish newsparer Haaretz on October 3 2008. Yajuj and Majuj characterise insatiable consumption of water and the Zionists are drying up the lake from over use. Water wars and global conflict are projected to occur in forseeable future according to Western experts.

The article states that this past year has seen the sharpest fall in water level since measurements were first recorded. It also states that the level is advancing at a disturbing speed towards the black line. It also says: "Since Spring, 2004, the level of the Kinneret has dropped more than five meters which is about 850 million cubic meters of water, more than the amount of water consumed annually by Israel."

You say yourself that the age will see them drinking out the water resources - this is happening mainly because of the greed and exploitation and pollution of the Western way of life

As to their numbers and reach - the US/Europe/Zionists/secularists are a significant portion of the world. As to their reach - can anyone argue that their is a single contry in the world that does not seek to imitate Western way of life? It has never happened that one world order was embraced by countries all over the world. So the impact of yajuj and majuj has been overwhelming.

As to primitive way of life - this can easily happen after a nuclear war. It is likely yajuj and majuj might start a nuclear war. After all they are a people who will wreak widespread destruction.

You said "added an authentic narration from sahih muslim states that when Esa ibn Maryam (as) comes and kills the dajjal, Allah will reveal to him that He is going to release Gog and Magog which no one would be able to fight, and so he would gather the people in a mountain and seal themselves there"

The end world events interlink. Yajuj and Majuj are mentioned in Quran with reference to exiled people not being able to return to their land until Y and M are released. Which exiled people are these that were exiled from their land as punishment and could not return to it until fitan and godlessness (which is what Y and M will unleash) grip the world? Which exiled people have been given their ancestral land back by Europe/US/UN world order on the back of oppression and injustice? It seems pretty clear.

And these are the people that will follow dajjal - their (false) messiah. Dajjal has not come but the Jews have been returned to their land. But if we take this interpretation (what other interpretation or nation fits better?) then how can they go back if yajuj and majuj haven't been released as the Quran indicates. Thus it is plausible that yajuj and majuj have been released and will become completely and obviously manifest to doubters when they attack Hazrat Isa and believers. The Christians and Jews will have to believe Hazrat Isa when he comes, but do you think the Zionists (whose messiah he has killed)/atheists/secularists will develop any love for him. Certainly not if they are indeed yajuj and majuj - they will chase him and his followers till the last.

So I think in light of the state of the world today, the hadith doesn't necessarily have to conflict with the notion that yajuj and majuj are already the dominant force in the world or have already been let through. The hadith translation says send rather than let through or release but I do not know what the Arabic word used implies. Allah knows best.

I found the analysis quite insightful. Because we have been born into such strange times, we accept the strangeness around us without much thought. Just think what peopel 300 years ago would think of our world - they would think it was a magical devilish world. I think it is hard for us to accept that we are living in the age of Yajuj/Majuj tribulation because we expect some big announcement or something really out of the extraordinary with the fulfillment of the major signs.

I think it is also disturbing for the majority of Muslims because we all have a vision of ourselves that if we were ever to face dajjal or yajuj majuj we would instantly recognise them, staunchly resist them and make whatever sacrifices are needed. That is our hope anyway - it never occurs to most of us (including me) that the enemy we were warned about has been so insidious that unknowingly we suddenly find ourselves surrounded by a system that is so godless, so pervasive, so oppressive, greedy and powerful that it has become seemingly undefeatable. It makes a lot of sense for this system to be none other than yajuj and majuj spreading their corruption to all corners of the globe.

Whatever the case may be, whether Y and M are here or not - we should do what we are commanded to do - be good Muslims, be just and righteous, enjoin the good, and forbid the evil, spread Islamic knowledge, fight oppression, keep away from haram, raise a generation of staunch Mulsims, above all cling to the Quran and Sunnah of our beloved Proophet (saw) come what may.

Whatever the case may be, whether Y and M are here or not - we should do what we are commanded to do - be good Muslims, be just and righteous, enjoin the good, and forbid the evil, spread Islamic knowledge, fight oppression, keep away from haram, raise a generation of staunch Mulsims, above all cling to the Quran and Sunnah of our beloved Proophet (saw) come what may. You have spoken the truth here, may Allah bless you.

jazakallah jaywalker for the hadith.

i am not an alim but to me, the second hadith you pasted seems to give the chronological order of events that are to happen in regards to dajjal, Isa (as) and yajuj majuj.

dajjal will come first, then Isa (as), then dajjal will be killed, then yajuj majuj will emerge.

can anyone tell me how the hadith could be indicating a different chronological order or maybe not indicating the order of events at all?

thank you brother for the reference. now i am a bit more confused.http://discussworldissues.com/forums..._surprised.gif

anyway we should be engaged in rightful deeds rather than engaging in confusing matters

I think the view presented is that yajuj and majuj could have been released through their barrier and causing generalised fitna before they are sent specifically against Hazrat Isa and the Muslims that remain with him.

(The posible impetus could be the killing by Hazrat Isa of their "messiah" dajjal which it took them over a thousand years to finally establish in the "promised land" but this point is strictly my personal opinion)

This view is supported because there is no longer an iron barrier in the Caucasus keeping anyone out of anywhere. This barrier has not existed for the last 1000 years (roughly corresponding to the emergence of Khazar Jews who are not Banu Israil but Eastern European - these Khazar Jews and other Khazars also proved undefeatable and prevented Muslims in 7th/8th century getting through and conquering Europe, even though Muslims had defeated the two superpowers of the day - Persians and Byzantines).

The Quran mentions in 21:95-96 that any population which Allah has destroyed will not return until Yajuj and Majuj are let through, yet the Jews have already returned. The verses preceding mention the Israelite prophets and Maryam (as) and Isa (as) being made a sign for all peoples. Therefore 21:95-96 may said to have particular significance for Jews and their expusion from their holy land.

Yajuj and majuj will spread widespread killing and corruption everywhere on a scale not seen before. We see this being manifested by the secular world order as never before. There is corruption in everything - politics, trade, economics, news propoganda, social relations, the place of religion in society, gender roles, morals, ethics. There is war and conflict erupting everywhere. The Arabs and Muslims have been specifically oppressed and humiliated by the new world order and continue to do so with increasing ferocity. There is not a single aspect of life that the secularists have left uncorrupted. Judeao-Christianity led the way to all this corruption and secularism.

Yajuj and Majuj will have great undefeatable military strength - The Western World has unparalleled weaponry and technology which they use without shame or ethics.

Also - I never heard about leaving 100os of offspring, but maybe this acn be explained by cloning? An army of clones?

Assalaamu 'alaikum,

786

[B]Respected Brother, My website is the publisher of the gog and magog book and it has only been released to the public on the 2nd Safar 1430, a few days ago.

Please do let me know the source for your previous version of the book. http://discussworldissues.com/forums...nnah_smile.gif

Please take the time to read it and then let us all have you opinion as surely Allah has blessed you with knowlege he may not have given to us, and he has blessed us with knowledge he may not have given to you.

firstly about the proof that Gog and Magog are inside the earth, here is the narration:
‏ I think that Saj has sufficiently addressed this.

-the hadith mentions when the day comes when they accomplish their dig, they will "yokhrajun" which lingustically means as as if they are swarming out from something below to a surface or something above, or coming out from something that has enveloped. Dr Tamam Adi has provided almost two whole pages on this one word, you may want to read the ebook.


-their age will witness them drinking out water resources.
In fact one hadith from the sahih muslim it is understood that when their first group start drinking from the lake of tiberias, and as they finish and the turn for their last one reaches, they will comment that there once used to be a lake here( in Tiberias' place), indicating their huge swarming numbers that would march forth. Lake Tiberias=Lake Kinneret=Sea of Gallilee

Monitoring in the biblical Sea of Galilee is stepped up as water levels drop to historic lows

In average years, about 800 million cubic meters (MCM) of water flow into Lake Kinneret (the biblical Sea of Galilee) from its catchment basin - 70% from the Jordan River and its tributaries and 30% from other sources. Some 380 MCM are withdrawn for distribution through the National Water Carrier and 100 MCM are used by consumers in the immediate area. About 280 MCM are lost by evaporation and about 50 MCM are released into the lower Jordan River.

But this year was not an average year. A continuing drop in water levels as a result of overpumping, on the one hand, and several years of drought, on the other hand, has brought about a negative water balance (minus 155 MCM). Thus, despite a significant decrease in pumping from the lake in 1999, water levels plunged to an historic low in December 1999 - 213.28 meters below sea level, 28 cm lower than the minimum “red line” set in regulations.

http://www.sviva.gov.il/Enviroment/S.../kineret_1.doc


The latest article I now found was dated December 2008, which stated that should the lake now fall another 10 feet they would be unable to pump water from it!
Using published information, by my calculation the lake is falling at a rate of around 2 feet per year and Allah knows best!

So their hordes and great numbers are unlike what is known of the nations of world. Consider the growth in the wordl population. Then consider that the majority of this population live essentially the same lifestyle - blue jeans, coke and macdonalds - this is the lifestyle of gog and magog. Everyone imitates them and you are a part of what you imitate.

added to this an authentic narration from sahih muslim states that when Esa ibn Maryam (as) comes and kills the dajjal, Allah will reveal to him that He is going to release Gog and Magog which no one would be able to fight, and so he would gather the people in a mountain and seal themselves there. We found one such Had?th in our study of this subject i.e. the
Had?th which has been understood to imply that Gog and Magog
would be released only after Jesus (‘alaihi al-Sal?m) returns and only
after he kills Dajjal:

“. . . It will be under such conditions that Allah will reveal to Jesus
these words: I have brought forth from among My servants such people
against whom none will be able to fight; you take these people safely to
the mountain, fa yab’athullahu Y’aj?ja wa M’aj?j (and then Allah Most
High will send or raise Gog and Magog) and they will spread out in
every direction or occupy every place of advantage. The first of them will
pass by Lake Tiberias (i.e. the Sea of Galilee) drink out of it, and when
the last of them passes, he will say: ‘There was once water here . . . .’”
(Sah?h Muslim)

A deficient methodology which focused on this solitary stand-
alone Hadith led many to conclude that Allah Most High would
release Gog and Magog into the world (and hence destroy or level
the barrier built by Dhul Qarnain) only after Jesus (’alaihi al-Salam)
returns and kills Dajjal. But the Hadith uses the word send or raise. It does not use the word ‘release’.

Page 92, Islamic View of Gog and Magog in the Modern Age, Imran N Hosein, 2009


it is something very known to all those who have some familiarity with the principles of fiqh, that the Quran and the hadith stand at a similiar significance, and are mutually given a primary status. No authentic established hadith should be discounted, and if someone does that out of jah'd(deep refusal) knowingly, then according to Qadhi Iyad he/she is out of Islam. No one is negating the hadith, it is only this single item that does not fit in the system of meaning derived from the Quran and on closer study, using the Light of the Quran, you will notice from the preceding paragraph, the word is "raise" and not "release". If the traditional interpretation of the hadith had just been accepted, this error may have been propogated to Kiyamah.

There are other authentic hadiths which contradict the "orthodox" interpretation of even this one, like the one where the Nabie (s.a.w) mentions the hole in the wall.

The blessed protection of the Quran does not extend to the Hadith. Already Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller has discovered Wahabbis and Salafis changing Traditional Islamic Texts, like Sahih al-Bukhari etc. You may want to research this further....

Once again, we release books every few months. All the new books are first published on the Website, then printed. Accept our sadakah and spend some time at http://www.imranhosein.org/books.html

We will be publishing AlQuds fil Quran (Jerusalem in the Quran in Arabic) on the site next week,insha Allah, for the brothers and sisters speaking Arabic.

ma'asalaamah,

I would like to concur with Saj here and also state that the book and the work we are doing at imranhosein.org is not asking for anything else but this.

We have already begun work in South Africa on establishing a Muslim Village near Cape Town. Here we pray that we will be able to at least build, on a small scale, an islamic society that is in confomance to the Prophetic(s.a.w) model - from leadership, to education, to productions and consumption, to commerce.
Everyone will be welcome here, no matter what your view of the matter is.

fiamaanillah,

muslims are going to outnumber "Y&M" http://discussworldissues.com/forums...cheesygrin.gif

it never occurs to most of us (including me) that the enemy we were warned about has been so insidious that unknowingly we suddenly find ourselves surrounded by a system that is so godless, so pervasive, so oppressive, greedy and powerful that it has become seemingly undefeatable. http://discussworldissues.com/forums...lies/salam.gif
Agree.

The things is, what else can explain what has been going on with the world today? all the evil practices of the previous destroyed nations are in the culture we're living in today. we can hardly recognize haqq from batil, just as how the previous nations cant acknowledge how erroneous they have been.. and yet in the sight of Allah Ta’ala and the messengers alaihimussalam they have put themselves in a grievous situation.

if yajuj majuj are zionism and communism manifested in the kuffar of today and are already here, and will still be here when Isa (as) and the believers will seek refuge from them on the mountain.......

then who will Al-Mahdi, Isa (as) and the muslim army fight and completely destroy and establish Islam and peace around the world after destroying all of kufr and killing all the swines and breaking all the crosses.

from what i have understood all these years, first the black banners will emerge, then Al-Mahdi, then Isa (as) then they along with the muslims armies will kill all the kuffar, then establish pure Islam and peace upon the earth to such an extent that the dangerous animals will no longer be a danger and the earth will produce food as never seen before, then Al-Mahdi will pass away and then the yajuj majuj will emerge etc etc.

brother, your chronology is not right and please follow my above post where I mentioned all hadith about gog and magog from Bukhari, Muslim and Tirmijhi. I also searched Muatta and ibn daud, but not found any hadith in these sources about gog and magog.

there is a famous hadith about jews and christians dominating muslims, even though our numbers are large and theirs few.
the hadith talks about them feeding off muslims like dogs from a bowl.
it's about love of the dunya (hubb al-dunya) and hating death (karahiyat al-mawt) and wahn(weakness) in muslims' hearts.

we see the truth of that today, which proves that these jews and christians are not yajuj and majuj.

here it is:

“The People will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their food.” Someone asked, “Will that be because of our small numbers at that time?” He replied, “No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be froth and scum like that carried down by a torrent (of water), and Allah will take the fear of you from the breasts (hearts) of your enemy and cast al-wahn into your hearts.” Someone asked, “O Messenger of Allah, what is al-wahn?” He replied, “Love of the world and dislike of death.” [An authentic hadith recorded by Abu Dawud and Ahmad]

please can you lay the chronology down in a simple way as i have done.

jazakallah.

Originally Posted by Murabit View Post
Dear brother mogamdza, i have read the book shaykh imran hossein years ago, and i do have a familiarity of the arguements that have been raised, and most respectfully I disagree with them.
----
----

Respected Brother, My website is the publisher of the gog and magog book and it has only been released to the public on the 2nd Safar 1430, a few days ago. I remember shaykh imran hossein coming to our masjid 8 years ago, and i personally met with him. He gave a jumuah khutba and talked about several of his books dealing with these subjects of gog and magog, dajjal, new world order, the world banking system etc., and which i obtained from him. it is the content of these books, Jerusalem in the Quran etc., im talking about and not the new one that has been published by you dear brother. Inshallah i will read this new book of his, and will share my opinion of it, bi idnillah