[bataovady]

I've read that many Muslims believe that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is death. Which, to my mind, makes a mockery of the words of the Qur'an which says 'no compulsion in religion' (2:256).

How can Muslims live in Britain hope to be part of British society (or other Western countries), if they regard their brothers and sisters who choose to believe differently, are deserving of execution? Isn't that the very height of intolerance?

However, I'm aware that many Muslim scholars, particularly in the past, were of the opinion that Islam affirms freedom of religion and does not require the death penalty.

http://apostasyandislam.blogspot.com/

So, what do you believe, and why?

[discountviagraman]

I've read that many Muslims believe that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is death. Which, to my mind, makes a mockery of the words of the Qur'an which says 'no compulsion in religion' (2:256).

How can Muslims live in Britain hope to be part of British society (or other Western countries), if they regard their brothers and sisters who choose to believe differently, are deserving of execution? Isn't that the very height of intolerance?

However, I'm aware that many Muslim scholars, particularly in the past, were of the opinion that Islam affirms freedom of religion and does not require the death penalty.

http://apostasyandislam.blogspot.com/

So, what do you believe, and why?

No, apostates, should not be executed, but are they ever executed?

Can you please show me evidence where the Saudis or Pakistani government exeucted an apostate?

[Anypeny]

I've read that many Muslims believe that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is death. Which, to my mind, makes a mockery of the words of the Qur'an which says 'no compulsion in religion' (2:256).

No its not mockery. No one is compelling anyone to convert to Islam unless convinced that it is truth.
BUT
Once he/she is convinced about Islam and converts to a Muslim, and after that he/she denounces it purposely has commited clear sin. This is to be dealt with according to Islam.

[bataovady]

No its not mockery. No one is compelling anyone to convert to Islam unless convinced that it is truth.
BUT
Once he/she is convinced about Islam and converts to a Muslim, and after that he/she denounces it purposely has commited clear sin. This is to be dealt with according to Islam.

People who grow up Muslim and then desire to leave Islam may be compelled to remain in the faith, for fear of being killed.

I'm aware that this does not happen to the vast majority of ex-Muslims, even in most Muslim countries, but I'm talking about what you believe is the correct course of action.

[bataovady]

No, apostates, should not be executed, but are they ever executed?

Can you please show me evidence where the Saudis or Pakistani government exeucted an apostate?

1993 Sadeq Mallallah in Saudi Arabia, where it remains punishable by death to apostatise from Islam.

[Anypeny]

The punishment of apostasy can be carried out after proper trial according to Shariat court. There are many conditions attached to it.


Scholarly opinion:


http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...39247bb10735ac




Al-Irtidaad (to renegade from Islam)

The religion of Islam is the most perfect and complete religion. The laws of Islam are flawlessly designed by Allah. These laws of Islam are for the benefit and of mankind.

Islam induces unity and always condemns division and sects.

Once a person accepts Islam, he sees its beauty and perfection. If after seeing the beauty of Islam, a Muslim turns away from it, it means he turned away from perfection towards imperfection, disassociating himself from the unity of the Muslims ummah towards a way that is unacceptable by Allah.

Allah always wishes good for His servants. By one accepting Islam, he will be Insha Allah entitled to paradise. However, after accepting Islam, one turns renegade, it means he has become entitled to Jahannam (Hell). This is not what Allah wishes for His servants. To prevent more people from becoming true candidates of the fire of Hell, Allah legislated a deterrent for it, i.e. the law of execution.

This law of executing the renegade is a unanimously accepted rule according to all Muslims.

Al-Hadith

Sayyiduna Ibn Abbaas radhi allahu anhuma says: Nabi sallalahu alayhi wasallam said "Execute the one who renegades from his Deen." (Sahih al-Bukhariy Hadith6299, Sunan al-Nasaa’iy Hadith4059 edited by Shaikh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah)

Sayyiduna ‘Uthmaan radhiyallahu anhu narrates hearing Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "……The one who changes his religion after accepting Islam must be executed." (Sunan al-Nasaa’iy Hadith4057 edited by Shaikh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah)

Sayyiduna Abdullah radhiallahu anhu narrates Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "It is not Halaal to kill a Muslim except for 3 reason: …no.3.The one that turns away from his Deen, thereby disassociating himself from the group of Muslims."(Sahih Muslim Hadith4351 edited by Shaikh Khalil ma’moon Sheeha)

Ijma’

The one who renegades from Islam must be executed is the unanimous verdict of the sahaaba, none of them rejected it.

The unanimity of the Sahaaba on an issue is conclusive evidence of the same.

The Fuqaha (Jurists)

All the 4 Mazhabs are unanimous that a renegade must be executed if he does not revert to Islam. Hereunder are classical texts from each of the 4 Mazhabs:

Al-Hanafiyyah

Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya)

Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: "Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed" (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)

Al-Maalikiyyah

Imam Maalik says: "The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed." (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)

Al-shaafi’iyyah

Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: "One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed." (Kitab al-Umm)



Al-Hanaabilah

Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: "All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed." (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)

From the above it is explicitly clear that there is no leeway in the religion of Islam regarding executing a renegade from Islam.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[blodwarttufla]

How can Muslims live in Britain hope to be part of British society (or other Western countries), if they regard their brothers and sisters who choose to believe differently, are deserving of execution? Isn't that the very height of intolerance?

the rules can only be adopt in a country which got shariah and in shariah court.

[beonecenry]

These are divine laws (not mere "interpretations") regarding which having pools is absolutely useless.

[gZAhTyWY]

Should apostates be killed? No it's barbaric. If one wishes to convert to another faith or turn atheist/agnostic then that is his/her choice. Good for them if that is their decision.

It's funny how only according to ahadith apostates should be killed yet the Quran says the exact opposite.

[gZAhTyWY]

These are divine laws (not mere "interpretations") regarding which having pools is absolutely useless.

No, according to YOU and YOUR beliefs, they are divine laws. Many others would think otherwise.

As such, a poll is not useless.

[beonecenry]

No, according to YOU and YOUR beliefs, they are divine laws. Many others would think otherwise.

As such, a poll is not useless.

Yes, according to my beliefs which are the Islamic beliefs.
Kuffar think otherwise, Ahadith rejectors kuffar - as you - amongst them.

[gZAhTyWY]

Yes, according to my beliefs which are the Islamic beliefs.
Kuffar think otherwise, Ahadith rejectors kuffar - as you - amongst them.

Lol, your'e funny.

If I'm a "kafir", then so be it. Luckily I don't live in an "Islamic" state and therefore there is no risk of me being killed for a non-crime.

[MontyP@thon]

Yes, according to my beliefs which are the Islamic beliefs.
Kuffar think otherwise, Ahadith rejectors kuffar - as you - amongst them.

Calm down brother takfir, I've noticed that most of your replies do more harm than good.
Maybe you should give a proper summary of your point of view.

[beonecenry]

Lol, your'e funny.

If I'm a "kafir", then so be it. Luckily I don't live in an "Islamic" state and therefore there is no risk of me being killed for a non-crime.

Allah will nonetheless deal with you and us all.
May Allah guide you to Islam.

Calm down brother takfir,

My name is 'umar, not takfir.

We are warned against making takfir of Muslims, while takfir of kuffar is simple logic, except maybe for perennialists.

I've noticed that most of your replies do more harm than good.

If they harm mulhidin, ahadith-rejectors and perennialists, alhamdulillah.

Maybe you should give a proper summary of your point of view.

I have no "point of view": Shari'ah prescribes death penalty for murtaddin (under Islamic State which implements Shari'ah), that's it.

[gZAhTyWY]

It's strange how Islam (Sunni Islam that is) can claim it's the religion of peace yet commands apostates to be put to death. A complete oxymoron if you ask me.

[MontyP@thon]

Allah will nonetheless deal with you and us all.
May Allah guide you to Islam.



My name is 'umar, not takfir.

We are warned against making takfir of Muslims, while takfir of kuffar is simple logic, except maybe for perennialists.



If they harm mulhidin, ahadith-rejectors and perennialists, alhamdulillah.



I have no "point of view": Shari'ah prescribes death penalty for murtaddin (under Islamic State which implements Shari'ah), that's it.

This is not some game of who can win the most points by refuting.


I noticed that in many threads you reply with a harsh and short tone.
There are a lot of young Muslims and non-Muslims visiting this forum who are ignorant of Islam
and possibly seek more guidance to start practising or revert.
If they stumble upon your words, then
your words might lead them to a different direction and you will be held responsible for that, there's no excuse.
You very well know in what time we live and for someone to say the Shahada is a lot.

So before you call me a kafir or a perennialist and what not, all I'm saying is that you're not just a Muslim for yourself but also for those around you, you seem to forget or neglect the second.

[Obebtetibre]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister:

Yes.

I was born into a Muslim family, but I will tell you I would have been considered a former apostate of Islam, as I certainly confessed openly to my friends of my renunciation of anything divine and did reject the Divine in my early childhood before coming to Islam in my early adulthood.

I am saying with the full realization that I could have come under the threat of execution in a shariah-implemented Islamic state had I been tried and found guilty of the same under its laws. Still, I fully support the death penalty for apostates of Islam under shariah laws in an Islamic state. People can of course make a show of repenting and falsely profess faith in Islam while not so in their hearts and escape execution under shariah (if they so choose); or they can die.

And I am also fully aware that many non-Muslims and even secularized Muslims will find death penalty for apostasy barbaric. I am not interested in what the non-Muslim or the secularized Muslim thinks or wants changed about Allah’s laws, as their very model of logic is flawed and their social rhetoric for protection of apostates is based on illegitimate sources.

What I will tell you is that your delving into your area shows your concern for humanity but also shows your lack of understanding of other realities:

Non-Muslim states even practice the death penalty for crimes like murder and terrorism. But I do not find those crimes as reprehensible as rejecting Allah after an individual has been given the chance to understand and live Islam as a Muslim. And if crimes like murder or terrorism merit death penalty, then certainly I find that apostates merit the death penalty for they betray a) the pre-existence covenant taken with Allah when all souls concurred that He is our Lord and b) the Islamic state (which by its nature will require adherence to its laws—the divine and the secular).

Contrary to what many might think, the law ordering apostates to be put to death is a mercy to the apostates themselves, for Allah only wills punishment hastened for those on the earth whom Allah will think to show some leniency in the hereafter. In fact, to be an apostate on earth and not be punished for this high crime on the earth is the worst imaginable condition for the apostate—for they will suffer such punishment for the high crime in the hereafter that they would themselves rather that they been executed over and over again on this earth rather than to suffer the myriad punishments of the damned in hellfire.

The Prophet (SAW) said: “When Allah wishes good for His slave, He hastens to bring about his punishment in this world, and if He does not wish good for him, He withholds the punishment until he is dealt with for his sin on the Day of Resurrection” (Tirmidhi).

So, Sister, your question underscores your unawareness in my humble opinion. Do not endeavor to ask about how Allah has decreed such and such when the question is not of apostasy or at least should not be for a seeker such as yourself but whether the religion is the Truth. Otherwise, your questions will not end and the answers won’t satisfy you because you will follow the indoctrination of societal or other arbitrary human ideals when Islam has set the standards to which any sane human being should submit—the reality of the Seen and the Unseen World. You and I live in the Seen World; therefore, our knowledge is lacking and we do not understand the rules of the Unseen World. However, as Surah Fatiha says, “alhamdullilahi rabbil alameen,” “all praise (credit and thanks) is to the Lord of the Worlds.” The “worlds” refers to the Seen and the Unseen. The Unseen world comprises of the future, the what-ifs, hell, heaven, angels, and all the other knowledge to which our senses are not privy.

A man who had to board an airplane for an important deal curses fate when he misses the flight. He feels cheated and angry. But when the flight crashes on which he had been originally set to board with no survivors, he feels very lucky and blessed to have escaped his fate. Such is the case of human beings that we feel slighted when the Seen World gives us a “boot” in the behind—such as missing the flight—but is really a favor that lack of knowledge of future does not reveal—from the Unseen World—until we get news of this in the Seen World—the plane crashed with no survivors.

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent by Allah as a mercy to the Worlds (Quran 21:107). The question is: Do you believe this? Those who do not will continue to have problems with divine laws.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[beonecenry]

I noticed that in many threads you reply with a harsh and short tone.

Feel free to report them to the mods.

There are a lot of young Muslims and non-Muslims visiting this forum who are ignorant of Islam
and possibly seek more guidance to start practising or revert.
If they stumble upon your words, then
your words might lead them to a different direction and you will be held responsible for that, there's no excuse.

Any example of any such posts of mine before today?

So, shall we lie about the Din of Allah and pretend death penalty doesn't exist not to scare the non-Muslims?

So before you call me a kafir or a perennialist and what not, all I'm saying is that you're not just a Muslim for yourself but also for those around you, you seem to forget or neglect the second.

I haven't called you a kafir, only Kasinova; I don't know your belief.

But focusing only on "Adab" and "education" and completely neglecting 'Aqidah as an essential hardstick is one of the features of perennialists, amongs others.

May Allah guide us all.

[Obebtetibre]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Assalam-Alaikum Brother iSoK and Brother Umar_Italy:

Brothers, you both are different and deal differently with situations and with people online and probably in the real world as well. Brother Umar_Italy does not mince his words while I have seen you Brother iSoK treading lightly.

Abu Bakr and Umar (may Allah's mercy be upon them) treated others and situations that cropped up differently, but they were both loved by Allah. I remind you of this so that you may respect each other's positions, even if you do disagree on each others' approach.

Also, while on the Forum, I might not be criticized (or rarely so); in real life, I am. And Alhamdullilah, that is a blessing of Allah, for criticisms give us an opportunity to reevaluate and humble our nafs. Whether a criticism is deserved or not then becomes immaterial, because of its intrinsic value.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[enlinnyGoob]

It's strange how Islam (Sunni Islam that is) can claim it's the religion of peace yet commands apostates to be put to death. A complete oxymoron if you ask me.

You Shi'ites are Kafir.