[ButKnillinoi]

what is the relationship between sufism and the hanafi madhab? Is it necessary that one must look into sufism in order to follow the hanafi madhab, or is it possible to be a "hanafi" but not practice sufism?

[amelveEnromma]

Tasawuff actually deals with the purification of ones inner self such that adhering to the shariah becomes easy and persistent.It is obligatory to engage oneself in this self purification process as only then do we fulfill the criteria of being the true followers of the beloved Prophet (SAAS) . At the time of the Prophets (SAAS) presence amongst the sahaba it was not essentially ascribed a name as the process would start and attain perfection immediately in the company of the Prophet (SAAS) whom one could compare to the brightest sun whose light would immediately burn away all impurities of those desirous of developing their souls but now that we are centuries away from that sun we have to work on this path in such a way that tazkiya or self purification becomes one of the duties which we perform in the background while executing our other obligations. It is just like the fact that none of the sahabis learnt the science of tajweed as we do today-- we learn it so that our recitation of the word of Allah which is a fard becomes perfect. Similarly to attain the degree of focus on Allah swt which the sahaba(RA) had inspite of being engaged in all sorts of activities involving their bodies. minds and hearts
we have to learn this science in presence of an authentic guide. The goal is not tasawuff but the goal is attaining that focus on Allah swt such that all our other aamal attain the status of ihsaan.
No madhab is complete unless one works on this front; yes one can call oneself a hanafi even when he is not engaged in self purification but naming ourselves is not enough-- to be one is different ! May Allah swt fill us with His love and the love for His beloved. Aameen.

[denwerdinoss]

Yes it is possible for one to be a Hanafi and not be a Sufi (and vice-versa). They are complementary rather than substitues as they deal with different aspects of Islam, namely that the former is a school of law (fiqh) and thus deals with the external self whilst the latter deals with the purification of the inner self as faqirah has already detailed above.

[ButKnillinoi]

jazakallahu khairan,

I read most if not all of the scholars from the subcontinent was infact sufi (the hanafi ones). Considering that I'd probably be reading their text, I was confused as to whether it was possible to learn from them but avoid certain things that are particular to sufis (ex. hadras).

anyway jazakallah for the replies

[denwerdinoss]

The Hanafi Ulema of the Indian Subcontinent are of two types, Deobandi and Barelwi. The Deobandis do not practice Hadra or the other rituals associated with the version of Sufism propogated by Hisham Kabbani others like him. The Barelwis may or may not I don't know but they are more inclined to practices similar in nature.

PS not all Sufis practice Hadra, etc

[ButKnillinoi]

PS not all Sufis practice Hadra, etc wow...i did not know that.

jazakallah. I've seen barelvi's on youtube. they definitely look a bit... lol

[amelveEnromma]

what u have seen is all ignorant misleading stuff; real tasawuff is something entirely different and pure.

[PrettyFifa12]

Different Tariqas have different methods, and none of the rightly guided tariqas do anything which goes against Quran and Sunna (such as dancing, or neglecting Sallat, or weirdo stuff).

I also noticed this:
Yes it is possible for one to be a Hanafi and not be a Sufi (and vice-versa). you can not be Sufi without following one of the four madhabs.

[ButKnillinoi]

Different Tariqas have different methods, and none of the rightly guided tariqas do anything which goes against Quran and Sunna (such as dancing, or neglecting Sallat, or weirdo stuff).

I also noticed this:

you can not be Sufi without following one of the four madhabs.

what u have seen is all ignorant misleading stuff; real tasawuff is something entirely different and pure.

if that is the case, then alhumdulilah.

[hablyShappY]

Slmz,

In my country (South Africa) a large portion of the Jamaat are engaged in Sufi practices (loud collective zikr, visiting Sheikhs tombs, holding Ratipul Ghadat, holding Meelad un Nabi etc.) This seems to be quite a every day 'normal' practice by Malay Muslims (a part of their tradition ?) and they follow mostly the Tariqas Qadirriya, Riffai, Naqshbandiyya.

There are also Muslims from the Indian Subcontinent, they follow mostly Saabiri Chisti Tariqa.

I personally do not engage in these practices as I do not know the permisibillity of these acts of worship (not always sure if they are engaging in good/bad Bidats.) The reason I mention this is I have been to a Ratipul Ghadat and they were rythmically beating drums whilst performing certain dangerous looking acts with traditional daggers and swords....?

I found it quite interesting but at the same time I read (not sure where) that the use of musical instruments like the drum is Haraam if not used for the sole purpose to announce a Nikah.

Maybe someone more learned than me can advise on the permissabillity of these acts.

But Allah (swt) knows best.....

Wslm,

Bro Riyaaz

[lE3l6Lgn]

since you asked for advise.. it would be to avoid such gathering which have music in them.. no matter what.. Your aim is to follow the Shariah and be close to Allah.. Since you are in Johannesburg.. get in touch with Shuyukh like Mufti Razaul Haq Saheb, or Maulana Choksi.. at Darul Uloom Zakariya.. or Maulana Abdul Hameed at Azadville Madrassah.. and ask them to guide in your daily life.. with adhkaar etc

[hablyShappY]

Slmz,

Jazak-Allah for the guidence. As I have said I personally do not participate in observing these practices. However I stay in a Malay area (my wife is of mixed Indian/Malay origen) and I am European (a revert.) I also attend the predominently Shafi Masjid for Namaaz.

I summize from your reply that these acts are in fact Bidat to be avoided (as I suspected....)

Wslm,

Riyaaz.

[lE3l6Lgn]

predominantly.. but I rather not generalize on the gathering.. as that could be some far fetched method of some sheikh's idea of corrective measure in his silsila.. I am not that wellgrounded with the malay side of the customs.. but I do know many are just customary rituals like the ones we have among indo pakistani people..

This is why I gave you the names of those shuyukh whome I know for definite to be mutabe' sunnah (follower of sunnah) and in this day of age.. there is no better guide than one who himself exerts to fulfil a life of sunnah.

It does not matter if you are shafii.. you can keep your shafii practices.. Islaah of the heart will not be affected by it onebit. Since you are english revert.. I would suggest Maulana Abdul Hameed.. it will ease your language barrier..

Remember, if you go meet these shuyukh .. it does not mean that you are stuck now.. sit with them.. for sometime and see if their environment changes your life for the better or not.. If their explanations and answers help you understand your problems of heart better .. and most importantly whether it makes you a better person in terms of following your deen.

If it does.. then dont loose their company.. and stick to them..

[sbgctsa]

what is the relationship between sufism and the hanafi madhab? Is it necessary that one must look into sufism in order to follow the hanafi madhab, or is it possible to be a "hanafi" but not practice sufism?

The hanafi madhab in and of itself does not have a relationship to sufism. The hanafi fiqh is distinct from sufism. As for matters of aqeedah, depending on whom you study this vast topic with, it may get confusing for you if mention is made of what constitutes as bidah and shirk. It is better to learn from the deobandi hanafi sheikhs, although realise that the deobandi's do accept four tariqa's of sufism. You will not be obliged to follow any of the tariqah's as they are not an integral part of the religion. Also a good point to remember is that there is no taqleed in matters of aqeedah.

[ASSESTYTEAH]

brother riyaaz, Asalamualykum

Which Shafi Musjid in Johannesburg do you attend?
I am also from Joburg

[hablyShappY]

Slmz, mospike

I attend the Bosmont masjied. I am originally from the Strand in Cape Town.

Wslmz,

Bro Riyaaz

[ASSESTYTEAH]

Mashallah


A few points about the musjid and it's activities.

The musjid is open to all and sundry to conduct activities in it. Thus you will find:

Tabligh Jamaat Activities
Moulood un Nabi
Qirat Jalsa
Ghadat
Loud recitation in unision of surah yaseen everyday after Fajar
Last year a Moulood conference was held in that musjid....
All ulama bodies from any background are welcomed to conduct programmes and hand out material.....

Muslims in that community try very hard to immitate the Malay style communities found in Cape Town unfortunately the demographic in Bosmont is not 100% the same as in Cape Town.........

Have you been to Maraisburg musjid?

[ASSESTYTEAH]

The above information which you have concerning the Ulama of Deoband and the Aqida held by these illustriouse Ulama is totally incorrects and is full of lies and slander (May Allah protect us from them)

Let me tell you straight out, BOSMONT is not a SUNNI musjid neither does the imam of that Musjid hold beliefs contrary to that of the ulama of Deoband.

Moulana Qari Salih Peck lectures in bosmont on Jumma once a month and Moulana is a lecturer at the Darul Uloom Zakarriya (the institution that AbuHajira mentioned earlier)

You refer to an 'old school' Moulana. You would be happy to know that the Majority of the Ulama in South Africa have their educational routes stemming from Deoband....

Also if you refer to Malay Ulama you would be happy to know that most of those Ulama have studied in Egypt, Makkah and Medina..... and they DO NOT HOLD beliefs contrary to that of the Ulama of Deoband........

I Suggest you get in touch with the Imam Malik or Qari Saleh to assist you,,,, better yet i would suggest you go down the road to Maraisburg and Speak to the Ulama there.

Better then that, asks the brothers in Bosmont to introduce you to Haji Amin and then take council from him with regards to Tabligh.....

I really hope that u accept this advice of mine

May Allah guide us all towards Love for one another

[hablyShappY]

Slmz, mospike

So if I understand you correctly you are saying that the Ulema of Bosmont are 'pro' Deoband / Tablighi Jamaat ? Yet the Jamaat is holding Ratipul Gadat etc. at the Masjied (I have attended one there and a couple back in CT.)

Is this not a bit of a contradiction or is it that the Jamaat (albeit probably not all) hold on to customary beliefs whilst the Imaams do not. (?)

Please advise.

Wslmz,

Bro Riyaaz.

[ASSESTYTEAH]

Like i said before,,, Bosmont is a musjid where all and sundry are allowed to hold programmes....

The imams are also of all kinds. Some participate in Tabligh whilst other like Ghadat etc.....

And yes you are right, this decision taken by them to hold all kinds of programmes can be very confusing to the general public and in this case your situation is a prime example of that.

The difficulty you have is that you married into Islam and now your in laws have presented a Islam to you that shows muslims oppose each other. This shouldnt be the case.

So even if we give you all the proofs and islamic status of the gatherings that you have been exposed to, it will be very hard for you to continue or oppose them because of pressure from your in laws. Thus your only recourse is to get into contact with reliable Ulama and ask them to advise you.