[zbckFNlW]

Salaams

interested in your views

what are the best policies for islamic states/countries in terms of economics, foreign policy, home policy etc?

Examples:

WHat should the state provide, roads? hospitals? Healthcare?

How should it be funded? Tax? State owned businesses? Zakah (Is it permissable to spend zakah on roads?)

Should immigration be allowed for non muslims? muslims?
Should they be given passports, citzenship, indefinite leave to remain, visa's etc?

What should the foreign policy with non muslim nations be? Should thery be invaded? Should alliances be forged?


Some of my theories:

The islamic state will function on gold, unlike the western system. the state cannot borrow gold from banks, in fact i believe tehre shoud only be one bank and it should be state owned. teh state should own ports and pay its workers as this will inject money into the economy and the funds come from charges for people who dock at the ports and use teh services.

same goes for postal system, hospitals, water and electricty, schooling etc. prices shoudl be charged on all these things but its should be low prices that are affordable and the money should be treated as tax, no actual tax should be charged and no private businesses should be allowed in these fields.

tourism should be restricted to the halal and can include places of learning, places of relaxation, places for sports, retreats etc.

agriculture is important and the state should not sell stuff cheaply to foreign countries. it should first sell products to people within the state, and surpplus can be sold at premium prices as a source of revenue for the islamic state.

I dont believe we should have the lawsuit and suing culture that the west has. we need a much better system. also the way the west chucks out so much food every day as it goes out of date in shops, needsa to be changed to a better system taht reduces waste. also we should not have all the plastic packaging and cans and things, we shoudl keep it simple and sell things loose and avoid genetic modification etc. mass producing rubish should not be allowed and we should be mindful of how much resources is left and how much we're using.

we should be developing the latest state of the art weaponry to keep ahead of the game and should have powerful armies

the state should have no public debt at all. it shoudl owe zero dinar (of it shoudl have dinar as the currency and dirham).

arabic should be the language used by everyone in shops, schools, tv, media, etc. proper classical arabic and grammar shoudl be taught. if people wish to retain their other language in tehir homes or in public the government shoudl not intervene but schools, media etc must be in arabic as should shops etc.

it should aim to make arabic a world powerful language, and computer programming, engineering books etc should all be translated to arabic to reduce our dependency on english language.

Only those who excel in arabic language should be allowed to learn other languages at a special language school for the purposes of diplomacy, trade etc.

a different educational system in terms of secular education should be invented as i found the western secular education system to be very poor until you reach university and specialise in a subject and learn it to a useful level after which the education improved. its a level down to preschool that needs to be revised. the university system needs some reforming but the general crux is good

these are some of my ideas. what do you think about how to manage a modern day state?

[vigraxtru]

depends where the khilafah would be. east or west.
if for example it would be afghanistan again, first and foremost id want the borders of the state secure from potential invaders. so first an atom bomb or something to tackle drone strikes or other foreign invaders(like how america came into pakistan and martyred sh usamah RA).
once thats done then economically u need a system where theres fair trade. buyer and seller both benefit. all necessities should be at a cheap flat rate and luxuries prices would be upto the seller. theres 4 necessities in life, food clothes home and transport.

Food example: lentils would be at a flat rate as would tomatoes and onions flour milk, say tomatoes rs35 a kilo in the whole state. but things u could live without like say pasta or pizza would be upto the seller.

clothes example: cloth like cotton and latha or silk would be upto the seller but standard cloth would be at a flat rate, say rs 300 for 6 metres(enough for a pair of salwar qamees). or burka material for veils would be cheap aswell.

home example: building materials should be cheap, cement bricks etc. luxuries like chandaliers and all these different colours of paint would be upto the seller.

transport exemple: a suzuki alto or mehran or a 70cc motorbike should be cheap and flat rate compared to say bmw mercedes or a 660cc motorbike. public transport would be cheap aswell.

cars shouldnt run on gas, petrol only so gas is preserved for peoples houses.

that would be like my ideal state where the rich and poor could live with ease. sorry for dragiging on. just my imagination.



ps medication and petrol should be at a low rate aswell. schools should teach darwinism and the big band etc only to refute them and not to promote it. a certain amount of islamic education should be a must aswell.minimum qudoori or taleemul islam. schools segragated and womens education so women doctors can see women and women teachers can teach women.

[zbckFNlW]

interesting ideas dadullah, jazak Allahu khair. I agree with the aducation of sisters to provide valuable positions like doctors for other sisters. like in saudi now, they just put women in charge of womens underwear shops which makes far more sense than having men do it. I think there needs a clear definition of mens roles and womens roles in the work places so that they can get the education needed for their specific roles in society. definitely we would need female doctors and also i believe the brightest women should be able to become engineers and programmers etc as long as it doesnt invovle danger i.e. desk jobs as we dont want to lose the potential of 50% of the population and sisters can teach other sisters too.

interesting economic policies. do you think the state shoudl provide any services and how shoudl they be financed? I really dont like the western model of borrowing trillions of dollars from your own banks. i dont understand how they get away with doing that with no consequences

[vigraxtru]

inshAllah this time round the khilafah would be more successful. my logic says that in 1995 we had first and second generation muslims in the west taking knowledge from them. 15 years on its the second and third generations time to prevail, we have more muslim engineers doctors nurses etc. aswell as this we have alot more reverts since 9/11 and alot more people started living the way a muslim should. a big portion of these people will benefit the state. we have lost a few old and experienced heads RA but generally i think, or hope, itll be better this time. more professional muslims in the west probably means more funding and facilities for the state. for example in afghanistan theres a problem with electricity, the new generation who migrate will do things like import solar panels and uninterruptible power supply. i really do think this time the muslims in the west will help more.

the other thing is in a hadith to the nearest effect it says “A believer is not bitten from the same hole twice.” (Related by Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah), therefore our ameerul mumineen is not going to be infallible but probably not going to make the same mistakes again inshAllah.

[HootSnori]

Wow good points and nice thread. : )
I think having non Muslim allies is fine so long as the Muslims have the upperhand and the final sayin all matters. I beleive thats what the Prophet did in concluding a treaty with the Jews living near Madinah. One of the provisions of the treaty mentioned thatshould any disagreement occur between them it would be settled by Allah :subhan: and His SWT Messenger .

[zbckFNlW]

brother nodamic could you give me the list of some arabic books inshAllah?

[Aw1HhC0m]

Salaams

interested in your views

what are the best policies for islamic states/countries in terms of economics, foreign policy, home policy etc?

Examples:

WHat should the state provide, roads? hospitals? Healthcare?

How should it be funded? Tax? State owned businesses? Zakah (Is it permissable to spend zakah on roads?)

Should immigration be allowed for non muslims? muslims?
Should they be given passports, citzenship, indefinite leave to remain, visa's etc?

What should the foreign policy with non muslim nations be? Should thery be invaded? Should alliances be forged?


Some of my theories:

The islamic state will function on gold, unlike the western system. the state cannot borrow gold from banks, in fact i believe tehre shoud only be one bank and it should be state owned. teh state should own ports and pay its workers as this will inject money into the economy and the funds come from charges for people who dock at the ports and use teh services.

same goes for postal system, hospitals, water and electricty, schooling etc. prices shoudl be charged on all these things but its should be low prices that are affordable and the money should be treated as tax, no actual tax should be charged and no private businesses should be allowed in these fields.

tourism should be restricted to the halal and can include places of learning, places of relaxation, places for sports, retreats etc.

agriculture is important and the state should not sell stuff cheaply to foreign countries. it should first sell products to people within the state, and surpplus can be sold at premium prices as a source of revenue for the islamic state.

I dont believe we should have the lawsuit and suing culture that the west has. we need a much better system. also the way the west chucks out so much food every day as it goes out of date in shops, needsa to be changed to a better system taht reduces waste. also we should not have all the plastic packaging and cans and things, we shoudl keep it simple and sell things loose and avoid genetic modification etc. mass producing rubish should not be allowed and we should be mindful of how much resources is left and how much we're using.

we should be developing the latest state of the art weaponry to keep ahead of the game and should have powerful armies

the state should have no public debt at all. it shoudl owe zero dinar (of it shoudl have dinar as the currency and dirham).

arabic should be the language used by everyone in shops, schools, tv, media, etc. proper classical arabic and grammar shoudl be taught. if people wish to retain their other language in tehir homes or in public the government shoudl not intervene but schools, media etc must be in arabic as should shops etc.

it should aim to make arabic a world powerful language, and computer programming, engineering books etc should all be translated to arabic to reduce our dependency on english language.

Only those who excel in arabic language should be allowed to learn other languages at a special language school for the purposes of diplomacy, trade etc.

a different educational system in terms of secular education should be invented as i found the western secular education system to be very poor until you reach university and specialise in a subject and learn it to a useful level after which the education improved. its a level down to preschool that needs to be revised. the university system needs some reforming but the general crux is good

these are some of my ideas. what do you think about how to manage a modern day state?

Salam br dawud

Good thread with some interesting ideas.

In regards to what services should be provided by an Islamic state then I believe society is judged by how it looks after its poor and how it looks after its women. Therefore I believe that in an Islamic state healthcare should be provided free of charge for those people who are earning under a certain amount or for those who are not working. THOSE who are working will receive a subsidised service; as you don't want to pick on the people who are paying taxes and making effort to establish a successful system

Also what are your views on unemployment insurance; obviously here we have job-seekers allowance? How would it work in an Islamic state? Would it be economically feasible to provide everyone with a set amount of money for the period they are off work or would it be better to provide them with food stamps? Obviously if you take the monetary value away you are encouraging poverty so there may be some sort of minimum allowance, perhaps an insurance payment while the person is working to cover in terms of long term sick or if they lose there job.

In regards to agriculture then how would you encourage farmers not to sell there product abroad when they will perhaps receive a higher amount for there produce? Perhaps set up agreements and rights for agricultural zones, or land owners with a fixed rate of lower tax and subsidised fuel.

Im also interested to learn how a gold based economy will work; would goods and trade be conducted purely in gold or would it be paper currency also?

Also what departments will be created which will establish under an Islamic state, by that I mean department of transport, department of agriculture? Would you encourage a big government so help is available for citizens when they require it or a smaller government where the onus is on the individual?

Some interesting thoughts

[AngelBee]

According to Sheikh al-Awlaki (may Allah have mercy on him), we already have examples of model Muslim societies here on earth today. In an old interview he cited Somalia as the most complete Muslim society in the Ummah, and that other nations ought to send their scholars, imams, teachers, jurors, and mujahideen to learn from the examples he cites in Somalia. The interview was given to As-Sahab media.

[Dwencejed]

As shabab - is this suppose to be a joke?

Br, Dawud,
Please refer to the work by Imam Ghazali. I can't recall the name of these books, in one he disscussed various ruler at the same time. A Mufti specialised in these field can direct you to the materials.
There are some books on siyas but some of them were binned due to unscholastic take verging on socialism and marxism.

In recent time the idea of Gold Dinar and silver dirham is championed by Murabatun (Sidi Abdul Qadir As Sufi). I think there is none today with the level of expertise in this field. You will find some of their websites on the net. The murabatun scholar like Imam Abdasamad clark are also famalier with the subject of khilafat. In late 90s, there was course organised on the subject by Islamic Course organiser.
As a jahil, i dont' think paper money will work if it is not linked to tangible asset like gold, silver, platinum.
Mufti Taqi stance is not as puritanical but prinicple are Shariah based though what is in existence is not!

I think your serach in contemporary world is likly be limited to Mufti Taqi Uthmani, Mufti Abdullah bin Baya and a few others.

Sidi Abu Aliya was at one time was studying some of the books on siyas and perhaps contact him for direction.

http://www.deoband.org/category/general/politics/
Allahualam

[vigraxtru]

i think mufti shamzai RA came to england in 1999 and my dad recorded a question and answer session that was going on and most of the things iv wrote in my first post were announced by 'the students' when they came to power. its a pity they never got the chance to implement them totally but some amazing policies. big dave (david cameron) shoukld take note. mufti sahib later goes on to say after peoples 'ain necessities then you move onto the structure of your society like more masaajid roads hospitals etc. a 'muhajireen-ansaar' system should be beneficial aswell for new comers. when 'struggle' is fardh kifaaya the army should have a good salary and there children should be taken care of by the government. it would take YEARS to get a good muslim independent state but its possible none the less.

[buchmausar]

can we start something like this in the UK?

http://www.letslinkuk.net/practice/theory.htm

the kuffar do it. lets have our own system amongst the muslims.

[buchmausar]

can we start something like this in the UK?

http://www.letslinkuk.net/practice/theory.htm

the kuffar do it. lets have our own system amongst the muslims.

and its completely untainted with interest. and the government cant tax it and spend it to kill muslims in other countries.

[HootSnori]

and its completely untainted with interest. and the government cant tax it and spend it to kill muslims in other countries.

It is a very nice system but i think the interestis still there because, even if i sell my bananas for somone's oranges, we both still have to buy them first ourselves and pay interest. correct?

[HootSnori]

I always thought Anwar Al-Awlaki would make an awesome Khalif.. is there any chance he's still alive? Could he just be going along with the claims that he's dead to stop the US strikes trying to kill him?

[bMc8F9ZI]

It's more realistic to have several official languages in the New Caliphate rather than Arabic alone. It's not just Arabs and Turks anymore.

India has 19... too many! A few major languages would be fine.

[buchmausar]

It is a very nice system but i think the interestis still there because, even if i sell my bananas for somone's oranges, we both still have to buy them first ourselves and pay interest. correct?

there is no money involved. only trading of goods and services. i think some of these groups have their own currency system. eg if i carry out a service for someone then instead of giving a service or some goods back to me they give me x amount of credits which i can then spend on service or goods from someone else.

some creases will need to be ironed out to make it shariah compliant, but if people are really interested in moving away from interest based currencies and giving less tax to the governement as much as possible then it can work.

[HootSnori]

i liked shaikh Anwar Awalaki prior to his detetion. It seems he became quiet aggressive in his view and was enough for me to switched off. We all know what he was saying but there is a way to say it.
I don't think a khalif would say things willy nilly!! So nope!he wouldn't have fitted the bill of a khalif. Perhaps the likes of Mufti Abdullah Bin Bayaa.

Maybe you're right my brother or maybe we’ve just become a little too soft. Other than his position on suicide bombing, I’d say his others views ewre good wallahu a’lam.

[HootSnori]

there is no money involved. only trading of goods and services. i think some of these groups have their own currency system. eg if i carry out a service for someone then instead of giving a service or some goods back to me they give me x amount of credits which i can then spend on service or goods from someone else.

some creases will need to be ironed out to make it shariah compliant, but if people are really interested in moving away from interest based currencies and giving less tax to the governement as much as possible then it can work.

Right but my tiny point was if I’m not growing my bananas myself I’d have to buy them first wholesale with interest and then sell them at my banana stand. That was my tiny point.

[bMc8F9ZI]

Another thing. If you introduce gold coins, then there should be people maintaining the standard of the coins, eg. making sure the gold percentage is constant, the coins aren't "clipped", forgeries are severely punished.

When England used gold coins, forgery was punishable by death. Isaac Newton himself, who was in charge of the Royal Mint, sent many forgers to the gallows.

Also, historically many kingdoms and empires end up "diluting" the coins by reducing the percentage of gold and silver, usually when the govt ran out of money to pay the army. Should the caliphate government be allowed to devalue money like this?

[IrrettelatWet]

I always thought Anwar Al-Awlaki would make an awesome Khalif.. is there any chance he's still alive? Could he just be going along with the claims that he's dead to stop the US strikes trying to kill him?

sister i dont believe he would make a good khalif. giving good speeches does not mean u r a great khalifa. a khalifa requires extremely high illumination of the qalb and extremely hig knowledge and wisdom. which i did not see in anwar. simply giving good speeches does not make u a good khalifa. it requires exrtreme wisdom