[beepbeet]

Muhammad Ali Jinnah(ra) was born in a Shia family of Shia Ismaili background. Later , when he became a bit more religious, he converted to Isna-Ashari Shia......later , when he became even more religious , he converted to mainstream Sunni Islam of the Hanfi mazhab...and I am sure he had profound respect for the Deobandi Ulema , otherwise he wouldn't have requested a Deobandi Alim to unfurl the flag of Pakistan and also to lead his Namaz-e-Janazah.

However , some Shias tried to hijack his Janzah by waving Alams ( Shia banners ) during his funeral.

[Toscoropreark]

There were two funeranals there were held for him. One was held privately by Shias and attended only by Shias. The main funeral prayer was led by Allamah Shabbir Ahmad Uthmani for the general public, at the request of Jinnah. When Jinnah died, Choudhry Zafarullah Khan, then foreign minister of Pakistan and a Qadyani was asked why he didn't join the funeral prayers of Jinnah? His reply was:

“You may take me to be the Musalman Minister of an infidel Government or the infidel employee of a Muslim Government”.

[Zamindar, Lahore, 8th February, 1950]

[CathBraun]

The reality is that Jinnah [r] did more for Islam than any of the Muftis.

Asalam O Alikum,
Thats right...
Asalam O Alikum...

[tactWeiccaf]

i dont know much about him. But definitely someone like maulana ataullah shah bukhari used to really diss him. He would make a pun on his word quaiid-e-azam. But definitely he was better than ghandi and all the hindu leaders. If someone like syed ataullah shah bukhari or maulana lahori were to be leaders of pakistan then pakistan would be a major force today. wasalam

[T1ivuQGS]

heres my 2 cents......

he was a guji

[tactWeiccaf]

Guji? So was he a bharuchi or surti? I'm sure bharuchis dont want him so maybe you surtis could adopt him? lol. May ALLAH forgive him and give us leaders like sayidinah umar radialahuanhu.

[Narkeere]

Guji? So was he a bharuchi or surti? I'm sure bharuchis dont want him so maybe you surtis could adopt him? lol. May ALLAH forgive him and give us leaders like sayidinah umar radialahuanhu.

Jinnah's father was guji, he himself was born in karachi but spoke guji. I know this is off the topic, but what's with guji's being either bharuchi and surti is their like a genuine rivalry? I'm personally tired of people creating invisible divide between us Muslim & non-Muslims for that matter. If you cut us we all bleed. I mean don't get me wrong people from various regions of the world have a different heritage, customs & traditions which they should all fully embrace but for one two many people this becomes an issue superiority, division and friction. Even when we share the same background we are determined to create division in between us I'm a rajput, chaudry, etc

As far as Jinnah, a secularist & an individual who led a rather unilamic lifestyle, is concerned once again I reiterate he is no example for us Muslims. Allah knows best

Originally Posted by JayshAllah View Post
The reality is that Jinnah [r] did more for Islam than any of the Muftis. I'm appalled by this statement. Besides as far as Pakistan is concerned it anything but Islamic !

[avaissema]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Muhammad Ali Jinnah's Great grand-father was neither a Guji (Indian) nor a Shia. He was a Sunni Muslim from Faisalabad or Sahiwaal (can't remember which one) & I have been meaning to write up something on this subject but this isn't a priority.

His whole ancestry is Sunni EXCEPT for when his father married the Gujrati-Biohri women in Bombay, possibly Grand-Father also married into Gujrati-Dawoodi-Bohras (???Not sure but will need to check).

I am a bit shaky on his Grand-Father and I think even he was Sunni but most certainly they adopted Shia'ism from the Mother's side and not the Father's side (in line with Dawoodi-Bohra system).

[tactWeiccaf]

guji shias? thats strange. Never hear of guji shia. I think we should stay quiet about jinnah. He was not a role model but definitely not like todays leaders who are a bunch of spinless fools except the man from afghanistan i wonder what his name is??? The lion of khurasaan.

[avaissema]

guji shias? thats strange. Never hear of guji shia. I think we should stay quiet about jinnah. He was not a role model but definitely not like todays leaders who are a bunch of spinless fools except the man from afghanistan i wonder what his name is??? The lion of khurasaan.

Asslamo Allaikum,

There are many Shias amongst Gujratees. The name "Bohra" itself is in Gujrati.

[T1ivuQGS]

the dawoodi bohras. guji shias. there is a community of them in bradford. for those who know maysum samosas, the owner is a guji shia.

i heard their ancestery is from persia.

[T1ivuQGS]

Jinnah was born as Mahomedali Jinnahbhai[6] in Wazir Mansion, Karachi,[7] - then a province of the Bombay Presidency of British India. Although his earliest school records were to state that he was born on October 20, 1875, he himself later in life[8] would give December 25, 1876 as his official date of birth.[citation needed] Jinnah was the eldest of seven children born to Mithibai and Jinnahbhai Poonja. His father, Jinnahbhai (1857–1901), was a prosperous Gujarati merchant who had moved to Sindh from Kathiawar, Gujarat shortly before Jinnah's birth.[7][9] His grandfather was Poonja Meghji,[10] a Bhatia from Paneli village in Gondal state in Kathiawar. The family had moved there from Sahiwal near Multan. Some sources speculated that the Jinnah's ancestors were Hindu Rajputs from Sahiwal, Punjab that converted to Islam.[9]

The firstborn Jinnah was soon joined by six siblings, brothers Ahmad Ali, Bunde Ali, and Rahmat Ali, and sisters Maryam, Fatima and Shireen. Jinnah's family belonged to the Ismaili Khoja branch of Shi'a Islam, though Jinnah later converted to Twelver Shi'a Islam.[1] Their mother tongue was Gujarati, however, in time they also came to speak Kutchi, Sindhi, Urdu and English.[11]

according to wiki (not sure if it is accurate) his father and grandfather were from gujarat, if so then that makes him a guji regardless of where he was born.
incidentally i have been told that i am also decended from the rajputs.

[ehib8yPc]

well i dont know about jinnah but

it still hurts me, in country like pakistan i had to see what i am seeing today

muslim country with political democracy

[KitRittyTug]

I'm appalled by this statement. Besides as far as Pakistan is concerned it anything but Islamic !

As-Salam Alaykum.

Bismillah.

He created a country for Muslims. Enough said.

I don't care what vision he had for a Muslim country; we cannot keep demanding that everyone have the exact same views as we do. Sometimes people who have some flawed views end up doing great things. I know this example does not apply to you guys since you are Asharis/Maturidis yourself, but I can give the example of myself and Salah al-Deen [ra]. I could care less that he was an Ashari; the fact is that he did something for Islam that no Athari at that time did, and we love him for that...I'm not comparing the aqeedah of Salah al-Deen [ra] with Muhammad Ali Jinnah [ra], but I am saying that they both did a great service to the Muslim Ummah.

The fact is that the Muhammad Ali Jinnah [ra] allowed me to have my own country, distinct from the monkey and phallic worshiping Hindus. That to me is a great thing, and reason enough to pardon him for his faults. I am going to make 70 excuses for him no matter what.

Fi Aman Allah

[beepbeet]

Even if Jinnah was Gujarati or Shia , he never ever claimed to be either. He only presented himself as an URDU-speaking Indian Muslim.

[PristisoliTer]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Muhammad Ali Jinnah's Great grand-father was neither a Guji (Indian) nor a Shia. He was a Sunni Muslim from Faisalabad or Sahiwaal (can't remember which one) & I have been meaning to write up something on this subject but this isn't a priority.

His whole ancestry is Sunni EXCEPT for when his father married the Gujrati-Biohri women in Bombay, possibly Grand-Father also married into Gujrati-Dawoodi-Bohras (???Not sure but will need to check).

I am a bit shaky on his Grand-Father and I think even he was Sunni but most certainly they adopted Shia'ism from the Mother's side and not the Father's side (in line with Dawoodi-Bohra system).

I hope you get a chance to bump up its priority.

[avaissema]

I hope you get a chance to bump up its priority.

Asslamo Allaikum,

Insha’Allah someday when I am bored

As far as Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) is concerned then he was a man and he has passed away and we should leave the judgement to Allah (SWT). IF his Aqeedah was good enough for Shaykhul-Islam Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (RA) to lead Janaza Salah over and others to attend then his Aqeedah is good enough for me and I leave the rest to Allah (SWT).

We should avoid extremism in all aspects of life.

As far as Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) is concerned then people were/are genuinely split and Deobandees were/are genuinely split (over Congress & Muslim League) and what the laymen should do about these differences of opinion are discussed in great detail in the following book:

Al-Itedaal Fi Maratibur-Rijaal (Islamic Politics)

Those were genuine differences based on the well being of the Ummah, now people have differences based on passion/emotion:

1) Pakistani Muslims will mostly love Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) to death

2) Indians (Muslims and more so Non-Muslims) will either dislike Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) or try to highlight and over-emphasise his Indian ancestry and heritage

3) Bangalees (Muslims & some Non-Muslims) will highlight the contribution of Bangalees in the Pakistan movement and Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA)’s Bangali companions and their contribution to the idea of Pakistan

What’s more important to “learn” is the sort of Pakistan all parties (Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA), Dr Muhammad Iqbal (RA), Bangalees companions and supporters of Pakistan movement, Deobandees and all other Muslims of the subcontinent) wanted and you will find that the difference of opinion is either small or non-existent.

That Pakistan (which they wanted) is vastly different to Pakistan of today!

[Narkeere]

As-Salam Alaykum.

Bismillah.

He created a country for Muslims. Enough said.

I don't care what vision he had for a Muslim country; we cannot keep demanding that everyone have the exact same views as we do. Sometimes people who have some flawed views end up doing great things. I know this example does not apply to you guys since you are Asharis/Maturidis yourself, but I can give the example of myself and Salah al-Deen [ra]. I could care less that he was an Ashari; the fact is that he did something for Islam that no Athari at that time did, and we love him for that...I'm not comparing the aqeedah of Salah al-Deen [ra] with Muhammad Ali Jinnah [ra], but I am saying that they both did a great service to the Muslim Ummah.

The fact is that the Muhammad Ali Jinnah [ra] allowed me to have my own country, distinct from the monkey and phallic worshiping Hindus. That to me is a great thing, and reason enough to pardon him for his faults. I am going to make 70 excuses for him no matter what.

Fi Aman Allah

I think you misunderstand me. I'm incredibly tolerant when it comes to other people's beliefs, whether Ahle-hadith or otherwise. My personal vendetta is against him .I think his motives for creating such as state were questionable & far from Islamic. Faroon raised The Prophet Musa doesn't make him good! When Allah excepts a good deed he looks at two thing his action and intention and only when the two are in conjugation He accepts the deed. If he had created Pakistan purely for the sake of Allah then I would have though otherwise about him, but everything I know about him suggests otherwise. Like I've stated before people can idol worship him all you like but he was a secularist and lead a far from Islamic lifestyle. Clearly peoples nationalistic tendencies corrupt their opinions on the subject matter and besides I'm kashmiri (azad kashmiri and happy to be a part of Pakistan) however we're still screwed both ways. I mean look how stupid these invisible boundaries known as borders are. If the Pathaans hadn't fought for our freedom then Kashmir would either have been and entirely different country or most probably a part of India, hence making me of Indian origin. I am not against the creation of Pakistan, but its just another irrelevant country in the greater world, besides I'm born and bred in the UK. You have a problem being raised amidst monkey worshiping Hindus, which I have no objections too& I entirely understand as its better to be in a predominantly Islamic environment, but I've been raised amongst materialistically commercial, capitalistic atheist and I'm fine Alhamdullilah. I'm anything but a nationalist and couldn't care less the country of my origin. I guess I am easily pleased but I'm Muslim and I'm fine with that. I have more in common with a practising Muslim from Ethiopia than I do with non-practising Muslims in Pakistan. This is just my philosophy and I can entirely understand your logic and why people think he was a good guy as he predominantly the founder of Pakistan, which is essence is an islamically good thing (for the people of Pakistan) and it greatly upsets me seeing the condition of Pakistan today. Lets also not forget that despite being a minority we muslims ruled over India, hence dispensing and implementing our laws over the country for many centuries. Anyways I'm far from accusing him of kufr as I don't know enough about his religious beliefs, Allah knows best in which the condition he passed away. Personally I pray that Allah gives hidayat to everyone and that no one dies without Imaan, I aint the condemning type!

[ehib8yPc]

@ jayshAllah

may be u dont know the complete history about ulema in india, may be ur just guessing those things might have happened

[SantaGanstag]

Assalaamualaikum wa rahmatullah

Alhamdulillah that was good summing up of the discussion. Quite true and worth pondering over that someone's Jazana namaz be offered by Shaykh ul Islam Maulana Shaabir Ahmad Usmani rah. MashaAllah. I was recently listening to a rare interview of Mufti Shafi rah and He had many kind words to say about Shaykh ul Islam. Having read the thread it certainly makes me feel that whatever Muhammad Ali Jinnahs intentions were, they certainly dont seem negative after looking at the draft constitution. Wallahu Alam.

So brother, i see its 3 years since someone asked you if you were going to write something on the topic. HAs that happened?

jazakallah

Asslamo Allaikum,

Insha’Allah someday when I am bored

As far as Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) is concerned then he was a man and he has passed away and we should leave the judgement to Allah (SWT). IF his Aqeedah was good enough for Shaykhul-Islam Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (RA) to lead Janaza Salah over and others to attend then his Aqeedah is good enough for me and I leave the rest to Allah (SWT).

We should avoid extremism in all aspects of life.

As far as Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) is concerned then people were/are genuinely split and Deobandees were/are genuinely split (over Congress & Muslim League) and what the laymen should do about these differences of opinion are discussed in great detail in the following book:

Al-Itedaal Fi Maratibur-Rijaal (Islamic Politics)

Those were genuine differences based on the well being of the Ummah, now people have differences based on passion/emotion:

1) Pakistani Muslims will mostly love Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) to death

2) Indians (Muslims and more so Non-Muslims) will either dislike Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) or try to highlight and over-emphasise his Indian ancestry and heritage

3) Bangalees (Muslims & some Non-Muslims) will highlight the contribution of Bangalees in the Pakistan movement and Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA)’s Bangali companions and their contribution to the idea of Pakistan

What’s more important to “learn” is the sort of Pakistan all parties (Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA), Dr Muhammad Iqbal (RA), Bangalees companions and supporters of Pakistan movement, Deobandees and all other Muslims of the subcontinent) wanted and you will find that the difference of opinion is either small or non-existent.

That Pakistan (which they wanted) is vastly different to Pakistan of today!