[hereiamguy]

Many students take out loans of up to £9000 annually for university, which are supposed to be repaid once the student has left university and is earning more than £15000 annually.

Some students know that they will not be going on to getting a job, or atleast not working at a job which pays £15000. Thus, they know that they will not be able to pay the loan back, and have no intention of paying it back.

Is this permissible?

[tinetttstation]

Many students take out loans of up to £9000 annually for university, which are supposed to be repaid once the student has left university and is earning more than £15000 annually.

Some students know that they will not be going on to getting a job, or atleast not working at a job which pays £15000. Thus, they know that they will not be able to pay the loan back, and have no intention of paying it back.

Is this permissible?

Before raising the issue of paying back , you should focus on the validiy of usury-based loan in Islam. This usury based loan is completely haram .

[HugoSimon]

To take out a loan means you are making a trust to pay it back. If you have no intention to do so, then you are breaking that trust and it will be haraam. One of the
characteristics of a hypocrite is he breaks the trusts entrusted to him. But as pawlak said, the very fact that the loan will be paid back with interest makes the loan Haraam too.
I am also in the same position as you I'm afraid.

[hereiamguy]

Before raising the issue of paying back , you should focus on the validiy of usury-based loan in Islam. This usury based loan is completely haram .

I am aware of this. But because they are certain of their future employment, or rather unemployment, they have no intention of repaying it. Interest-free or not

[HugoSimon]

See my post sister, interest free or not that is completely Haraam and un-Islamic and a trait of the Hypocrites (who will be in the lowest pits of hell). Mind you, that doesn't mean
they are hypocrites per se, rather they have one quality of a hypocrite, which is bad enough.

[hereiamguy]

See my post sister, interest free or not that is completely Haraam and un-Islamic and a trait of the Hypocrites (who will be in the lowest pits of hell). Mind you, that doesn't mean
they are hypocrites per se, rather they have one quality of a hypocrite, which is bad enough.

This issue is only raised because of the government's law, which states that the person must pay it back only when they are earning 15k per annum. If the person knows they won't be earning that much, then they know they don't have to repay it. Therefore they also know that the interest doesn't play a part.

[Dominick Yo]

Many students take out loans of up to £9000 annually for university, which are supposed to be repaid once the student has left university and is earning more than £15000 annually.

Some students know that they will not be going on to getting a job, or atleast not working at a job which pays £15000. Thus, they know that they will not be able to pay the loan back, and have no intention of paying it back.

Is this permissible?

What you on about? Even cleaners earn more than 15K!! Anyone not aiming to get 20k plus in his/her first year of employment, shouldn't even bother going to uni and wasting government resources & time! That's what you call waste of space lol

[hereiamguy]

What you on about? Even cleaners earn more than 15K!! Anyone not aiming to get 20k plus in his/her first year of employment, shouldn't even bother going to uni and wasting government resources & time! That's what you call waste of space lol

Resourceful as your post is, it does not answer my question

[HugoSimon]

This issue is only raised because of the government's law, which states that the person must pay it back only when they are earning 15k per annum. If the person knows they won't be earning that much, then they know they don't have to repay it. Therefore they also know that the interest doesn't play a part.

Ahh I see what you mean now, I was thinking of something else my sister said once in order to scam the system. Apologies. In that case it would be permissible, since the terms of the contract do say the loan is only payable if you earn over 15k. However, the only issue which may arise from this is the time frame this is applicable for.

Your Student Loan is automatically written off if you have not paid it off within 25 years. So as soon as you hit 25 years, whatever you owe SLC, it will be written off. Now if the person in question can guarantee themselves that for the next 25 years after graduating they will not earn a penny above 15k and thus not one penny will be paid back to the SLC, then I guess, with the terms of the contract that would be permissible.

But 25 years is a very long time, and as Sister Somali Lioness said 15k is usually standard, besides, the want for money can tempt the person to do higher paid jobs earning more than 15k in which SLC will take money out.

But in answer to your question, if for 25 years they dont earn a penny above 15k, then it is permissible as it is in line with the contract as far as I know, unless their is some small print I missed.

[Dominick Yo]

Resourceful as your post is, it does not answer my question

Well I just tried to put things in context. In terms of answering your question, there are more knowledgeable brothers and sisters in here, so I'm not attempting anything. Given the fact that I also took out loan to finance my uni fees and I am currently paying it back with interest... May Allah forgive me for my ignorance... I don't wanna rot in hell

[HugoSimon]

Well I just tried to put things in context. In terms of answering your question, there are more knowledgeable brothers and sisters in here, so I'm not attempting anything. Given the fact that I also took out loan to finance my uni fees and I am currently paying it back with interest... May Allah forgive me for my ignorance... I don't wanna rot in hell

Same here, I start in October. I'm trying to find an alternative to student loans but it is looking bleak. I've recently contacted the Islamic Bank of Britain, see if they have anything up their sleeves for students. The thought of using Haraam to pay for my education sends shivers down my spine. To think my education will be a means of paying for my food, clothing, family and shelter, and that all of that is based on Haraam is quite a scary thought.

[Salliter]

Same here, I start in October. I'm trying to find an alternative to student loans but it is looking bleak. I've recently contacted the Islamic Bank of Britain, see if they have anything up their sleeves for students. The thought of using Haraam to pay for my education sends shivers down my spine. To think my education will be a means of paying for my food, clothing, family and shelter, and that all of that is based on Haraam is quite a scary thought.

You hit the nail on the head. Some professional degrees in the U.S (Medical/dental) will cost around 50k usd a year. InshaAllah I will try my best to avoid interest loans when the time comes, but its hard to scrape 50k a year...

I also want to add that I feel that we are killing ourselves due to pride. We COULD find a way to work without getting these degrees etc and have trust in Allah and forgo getting interest loans at all costs, but we are too weak to do so, either due to pride or lack of faith. In any case, I am not in the situation yet that I need those loans, but they are always in the back of my head.

[Unhappu]

You hit the nail on the head. Some professional degrees in the U.S (Medical/dental) will cost around 50k usd a year. InshaAllah I will try my best to avoid interest loans when the time comes, but its hard to scrape 50k a year...

I also want to add that I feel that we are killing ourselves due to pride. We COULD find a way to work without getting these degrees etc and have trust in Allah and forgo getting interest loans at all costs, but we are too weak to do so, either due to pride or lack of faith. In any case, I am not in the situation yet that I need those loans, but they are always in the back of my head.

I agree with you.

It can be done.One can find a way to study whilst protecting oneself from an interest based study.

From my personal experience; The idea of going to university never really appealed to me but half of my family insisted and the other half denied. I was torn between going and not going. This 'taking interest loan' was one of the reasons I was reluctant to got , alongside with the free mixing etc.

The day came to enroll and sign for the course I was accepted for. I delayed it, knowing I had one month time limit to sign up. The final week to enroll came and my parent insisted I go and ended up driving me there.
It was horrible for me. Having spent 8 years in all girl schools, being in a mixed environment for me was toxic. To top it all off, discussing the fees, how they are going to be paid and the great costs etc put a huge weight on my chest. I didn't want to be indebted to the government for all my life. And most of all, I didn't want to be at war with Allah and his messenger
I got home and showed my stubborn streak and refused to ever go back. I researched and came to a compromise that i would study at home, teaching myself with the Open university for a much cheaper costing loan-less, safer and halal education,

. , I have completed 2.5 years and have about one year left. At the same time, I am comfortably able to teach, study and review about islam and serve my parents.

I humbly relate this to explain that it is possible.
Like the proverb states: "Where there's a will, there's a way"

Just to state further, one of my teachers use to say, "I have nothing against further secular education, in fact I encourage it, but the path one takes and the means could be corrupt, morally wrong and impure. So take care of the route you chose"

[duawLauff]

very big issue facing western youth. Funny how people fight over pathetic little arguements when the majority of the muslims are engaged in clear cut haraam, many dont pray, many use rib'a etc. And all some people are interested in doing is attacking other practicing muslims

[bely832new]

Same here, I start in October. I'm trying to find an alternative to student loans but it is looking bleak. I've recently contacted the Islamic Bank of Britain, see if they have anything up their sleeves for students. The thought of using Haraam to pay for my education sends shivers down my spine. To think my education will be a means of paying for my food, clothing, family and shelter, and that all of that is based on Haraam is quite a scary thought.

But 9,000 fees is from next year. If you are eligible for the Student Maintenance Grant (which alot of students are) use that to pay for your fees (and the additional grant you will get from the uni - which has to add up with SMG to the total fee you have to pay). Work part time/weekends to pay for additional costs. Many students (especially overseas students) manage to do this without taking out a loan. You need to plan your finances well and be stingy (or prudent), but it can work.

[bely832new]

I agree with you.

It can be done.One can find a way to study whilst protecting oneself from an interest based study.

From my personal experience; The idea of going to university never really appealed to me but half of my family insisted and the other half denied. I was torn between going and not going. This 'taking interest loan' was one of the reasons I was reluctant to got , alongside with the free mixing etc.

The day came to enroll and sign for the course I was accepted for. I delayed it, knowing I had one month time limit to sign up. The final week to enroll came and my parent insisted I go and ended up driving me there.
It was horrible for me. Having spent 8 years in all girl schools, being in a mixed environment for me was toxic. To top it all off, discussing the fees, how they are going to be paid and the great costs etc put a huge weight on my chest. I didn't want to be indebted to the government for all my life. And most of all, I didn't want to be at war with Allah and his messenger
I got home and showed my stubborn streak and refused to ever go back. I researched and came to a compromise that i would study at home, teaching myself with the Open university for a much cheaper costing loan-less, safer and halal education,

. , I have completed 2.5 years and have about one year left. At the same time, I am comfortably able to teach, study and review about islam and serve my parents.

I humbly relate this to explain that it is possible.
Like the proverb states: "Where there's a will, there's a way"

Just to state further, one of my teachers use to say, "I have nothing against further secular education, in fact I encourage it, but the path one takes and the means could be corrupt, morally wrong and impure. So take care of the route you chose"

Currently the Open Uni costs the same (or extremely similar) to any other university in the UK. This will change only from Sep 2012.

[hereiamguy]

But 9,000 fees is from next year. If you are eligible for the Student Maintenance Grant (which alot of students are) use that to pay for your fees (and the additional grant you will get from the uni - which has to add up with SMG to the total fee you have to pay). Work part time/weekends to pay for additional costs. Many students (especially overseas students) manage to do this without taking out a loan. You need to plan your finances well and be stingy (or prudent), but it can work.

This is the best option, eventually.
The loan is so enticing when you calculate the ease it will bring, but at the end of the day, true ease is from Allah.

Although that doesn't answer the original question!

[beepbeet]

i myself is in a similar situation, to the point i might just forget about uni and consider employment
i have friends who have finished their a levels and are considering apprenticeships due to uni prices

and last time i heard you had to pay the loan back when your earning 19/20k. im not too sure, so your better of checking this yourself


but i honestly think this is jihad for me not to go uni, and rather seek halal alternatives. but its sometimes hard as so many people around me are like "you should go uni" bla bla blaaaa
so inshaa allah im sure Allah will help me out

also i remember hearing that its possible to do home study and just sit the exams somewhere else
(which was told me to me by a friend)
so i dont know if this works out cheaper or not

[Unhappu]

Currently the Open Uni costs the same (or extremely similar) to any other university in the UK. This will change only from Sep 2012.

Maybe it depends what course one is studying. For my course, I am paying much less than what one would pay if going to an actual university and i am not getting any financial aid from the university.

When studying with the open university, one does not have to pay for the whole year but one pays for each module. You do not have pay for another module until you have not registered for it. Therefore, i think it is more manageable to pay for.

Of course, I am aware of the change about to come. (worried)

[bely832new]

Maybe it depends what course one is studying. For my course, I am paying much less than what one would pay if going to an actual university and i am not getting any financial aid from the university.

When studying with the open university, one does not have to pay for the whole year but one pays for each module. You do not have pay for another module until you have not registered for it. Therefore, i think it is more manageable to pay for.

Of course, I am aware of the change about to come. (worried)

You can also go part-time or study on modular basis at other universities. You are probably paying much less because you are paying per module, and your degree will take (much) longer to complete? Overall (currently) it probably add up to the same amount that any other uni charges. It is a UK university regulation.

Will you be affected by the change? However, if you were registered at a normal uni part time, you would not be affected by the changes as your start date was before Sep 2012. So people starting before that date carry on with the old regulations and fees and are not affected.