[saerensenatljn]

Haqqanis and fighting in Iraq?. Their close ties to the American governmet are well known as they are regularly invited by the government on special occassions.

There is different between real Naqshbandis and Haqqanis.

[saerensenatljn]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but some of the greatest fighting forces the Ummah has ever seen used certain musical instruments on the battlefield.

There is difference. In those times drums were used for different purporse in the battlefield, like make to draw attentions, etc.

They would fight during the day and spend night in the rememberance of ALLAH.

Its different when you listen to music for your nafasi desires.

It is authentically narrated from ‘Abdullâh ibn Mas‘ûd that he said:

"Singing breeds hypocrisy in the heart like water causes plants to grow."

Shu‘ab al-Imân no.5120

[saerensenatljn]

As far as the stance against Biddat and Shirk, the Haqqani share *exactly* the same stance of the Grandshaykh Imam Sirhindi al-Rabbani al-Mujaddid.

Imam Rabbani declared Milad, Sama, Hadra and all "good" Biddats to be haram.

Do Haqqanis follow that?

[kimaddison]

Asalaamu Alaikum

I'm still waiting for evidence of Music breeding cowardice...inshaAlah soon br khanbaba

[AlekseyZubkov]

Asalaamu Alaikum

I'm still waiting for evidence of Music breeding cowardice...inshaAlah soon br khanbaba

Wa'alaikum Asalam akhi. KhanBaba already gave the evidence that cowardice increases when you listen to music because nifaq in a person increases when you listen to music (by an apparently authentic narration).

[RafaelYV]

Asalaamu Alaikum

I'm still waiting for evidence of Music breeding cowardice...inshaAlah soon br khanbaba

wa 'alaikumassalam

I think what he meant was that music is not for true Muslims. He was just further insulting them [those who listen to music] and calling them cowards. Allah knows best.

[jokiruss]

BismillahirRahmanirRahim

Imam Rabbani declared Milad, Sama, Hadra and all "good" Biddats to be haram.

Do Haqqanis follow that?

"Gatherings of Meelaad as-Shareef with the recitation of Holy Quraan with good (melodious) voice and Naats and Qasidaas are recited for Huzoor Sallallaho alayhi wa sallam then what is the hesitation ? " [Ahmed Sirhindi, Maktobaat, Volume 1, First Chapter, Maktoob number 42, page 154]

Senseless people who read wise works end up with senseless results. Uncited claims by anonymous attackers of Tariqats are somewhat amusing once one gets over the annoyance having to reply to such weak 'attacks' at all.

It is obvious what Imam Rabbani (R) was speaking against was irreligious activities at 'mawlids' of the time. So now we established the base understanding of 'good bidaats' of Imam Rabbani (R) was that of the Naksibendi Hakkani tariqat. The idea that Imam Sirhindi considered the entirety of the Mevlevi and Shazali tariqat to be evil is a bit ridiculous.

The reality is the few comments of the great Mujaddid against Bidat cannot be understood through the lens of the Wahabified society of today. In his time, he did not speak of such things as Mawlid's, Tariqats, Shariah compliant Sama, Hadra as Bidaat's, rather he understood them as Sunnat al-Hasanat, leaving the ugly word Bidaat for those things which were directly from polytheistic religions.

Of course, this is need to attack such practices was a desperate need in his time, where one needs to compare the Moghul empire of the time to the Ottomans where the Naqshbandiya eventually flourished in its Khalidiyya and now Hakkani form.

Will you go after Imam Rabbani (R) now? May Allah protect us.

[Dilangos]

Salaam.

With all due respect, the people giving the Haqqania a bad rep, are those claiming to follow the Tariqah.

Personally was impressed when I first read about the Haqqani tariqah.

Then I bought the internet and started seeing the numerous sites claiming to represent the Haqqani group, what can one say!!!!!

Besides someone posted the Comments of Mujadid alf e Thani, against biddats from the Maktoobat, on this very site and they gave a totally different impression to what you posted.

[jokiruss]

Salaam.

With all due respect, the people giving the Haqqania a bad rep, are those claiming to follow the Tariqah.

Personally was impressed when I first read about the Haqqani tariqah.

Then I bought the internet and started seeing the numerous sites claiming to represent the Haqqani group, what can one say!!!!!

BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Wassalam,

I agree with you very much.

My advice would be to judge based on actual audio or video of Shaykh Maulana Nazim or his deputy Shaykh Abdul Kerim al-Kibrisi.

Anything else is suspect for me.

You can find them for free here:
http://www.naksibendi.org/sohbets.html

[Dilangos]

Salaam.

Jazak'Allah for the link, I will have a look, and also just for info, who are the authentic Khulafa of the Shaykh and his Tariqah.

[jokiruss]

Salaam.

Jazak'Allah for the link, I will have a look, and also just for info, who are the authentic Khulafa of the Shaykh and his Tariqah.

Shaykh Abdul Kerim is the one who has the best 'approval rating' by Shaykh Maulana and was raised by him. All in my humble opinion.

[AlekseyZubkov]

The reality is the few comments of the great Mujaddid against Bidat cannot be understood through the lens of the Wahabified society of today. In his time, he did not speak of such things as Mawlid's, Tariqats, Shariah compliant Sama, Hadra as Bidaat's, rather he understood them as Sunnat al-Hasanat, leaving the ugly word Bidaat for those things which were directly from polytheistic religions.

SubhanAllah! Brother Khanbaba is anything about "wahabi"/Salafi, lol...

And since when has bid'a become restricted only to those things borrowed from Kufar? Bid'a means simply 'innovation', there is no dictionary and no connotation with the word of it being restricted only to innovations *from* other religions. The real problem is reading the words of shuyukh through a lens of those with pre-established views on certain parties/acts so that they'll diminish the intended meaning of the shuyukh who condemned those parties or those acts.

[Adollobdeb]

Assalamu alaikum

Bro yursli, what has hadra got to do with Islam?

Jazakallah

Wassalam

[jokiruss]

Assalamu alaikum

Bro yursli, what has hadra got to do with Islam?

Jazakallah

Wassalam

Alaykumsalaam,

Shazali's who perform a Hadra regularly would be better inclined to answer. But here is a link for you:

http://www.************/index.php?opt...d=55&Itemid=48

[saerensenatljn]

BismillahirRahmanirRahim



"Gatherings of Meelaad as-Shareef with the recitation of Holy Quraan with good (melodious) voice and Naats and Qasidaas are recited for Huzoor Sallallaho alayhi wa sallam then what is the hesitation ? " [Ahmed Sirhindi, Maktobaat, Volume 1, First Chapter, Maktoob number 42, page 154]


.

The quote youhave provided is about Seerah gethering, not what happens in pesent day Milads. Milad gatherings in our time are total opposite to it. He clearly prohibited Milad as I will show in the quotes below.

Syed Abul Hasan Nadwi writes in his 'Saviours of the Spirit':

When Imam Rabbani was asked whether there was any objection to such gatherings [Milad] if they were not attended by any ritual against the approved religious practices, he answered:

''This poorling is of the opinion that unless this practice is completely given up, the interested persons would not cease taking advantage of it. If the practise is declared lawful, it would gradually lead to finding justification for other innovations also. Even a small mistake becomes a prelude to grave errors.''

[Maktubat Vol. III No 72 to Khwaja Hosam-ud-Din]

"I vehemently prohibit the practice of Moulood because it is contrary to our Path [Shariah]. I prohibit whatever is in opposition to our Path, whether the contrary act be Simaa’, Riqs [Spiritual dance and music], poetry, music, and Moulood practices."

Hadrat Mujaddid Alf-e-Thaani said”

“MAY ALLAH TAALA GRANT THE ULAMA OF THE TIME THE TAUFEEQ OF NOT HAVING THE AUDACITY TO DESCRIBE ANY BID’AH AS BEING HASAN [BEAUTIFUL] EVEN IF THE BID’AH IN THEIR SIGHT APPEARS TO BE LIKE THE GLITTERING RAYS OF MORNING LIGHT BECAUSE IN ANYHING OTHER THAN THE SUNNAH, THE DECEPTION OF SHAITAAN PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE.”

[Maktoob 23, Daftar 11]

"Until when one does not abstain from Bid’ah Hasanah like one abstains from Bid’ah Sayyiah, one will never attain the fragrance of this wealth [of Nafs-e-Mutmainnah]. Today it [abstention from innovation] seems difficult because the whole world is drowned in the ocean of bid’ah and trapped in the blindness of bid’ah. Who then has the courage to ward off bid’ah and claim the revivification of the Sunnah?"

[Maktoob 54, Daftar 11, addressed to Sayyid Shah Muhammad]

As you can see the Shaykh prohibited Milad all together. In your words, if Milad getherings in those days had haram in it, so then in our times, its worse.

Oh yea and typical Wahhabi attacks. In fact the "good" diddats have covered peoples eyes to distinguish between haram and halal.

Clearly, Haqqanis and Imam Rabbani dont go together.

[jokiruss]

SubhanAllah! Brother Khanbaba is anything about "wahabi"/Salafi, lol...

And since when has bid'a become restricted only to those things borrowed from Kufar? Bid'a means simply 'innovation', there is no dictionary and no connotation with the word of it being restricted only to innovations *from* other religions. The real problem is reading the words of shuyukh through a lens of those with pre-established views on certain parties/acts so that they'll diminish the intended meaning of the shuyukh who condemned those parties or those acts.

The reality of living in a time surrounded by Wahabi understandings should not escape even the most adamant anti-Wahabi. No one, including myself, should think they have cleansed themselves of this without deep consideration. The reality which has been created has affected our interpretation of complex and subtle concepts and techniques and transformed them into simplistic, childish ideas.

If one could find some other way to reconcile how Imam Sirhindi (R) attacked 'Bida' but somehow felt quite at ease about Mawlid with Naats and Qasidah's, Tariqats themselves with 'innovated' names, and concepts such as 'fana' and entered topics of Tassawuf then please feel free to explain. Otherwise, its clear what was understood from this and his other writings.

[jokiruss]

The quote youhave provided is about Seerah gethering, not what happens in pesent day Milads. Milad gatherings in our time are total opposite to it. He clearly prohibited Milad as I will show in the quotes below.

I don't know what happens at your present day Milads, but what Imam Sirhindi described and specifically allowed, and *called* a Milad is all that occurs at Hakkani Milads. I read it more than simple public reading of Seerah history.

again:
"Gatherings of Meelaad as-Shareef with the recitation of Holy Quraan with good (melodious) voice and Naats and Qasidaas are recited for Huzoor Sallallaho alayhi wa sallam then what is the hesitation ? " [Ahmed Sirhindi, Maktobaat, Volume 1, First Chapter, Maktoob number 42, page 154]

What Shaykh Sirhindi is specifically mentioning is "Meelad" and its allowed. Your quotes afterwards then try to say that Milad is not allowed.. yet you take it further to say "As you can see the Shaykh prohibited Milad all together."

How you reconcile this is still a mystery, its clear Imam Sirhindi (R) was speaking to specific practices at a Milad, not the use of the name in itself (which as far as I know is technically an 'innovation' according to the Wahabi understanding of it).

And it really wasn't an 'attack'. What I mentioned about Wahabi's was bit more complex than that.

[saerensenatljn]

How you reconcile this is still a mystery, its clear Imam Sirhindi (R) was speaking to specific practices at a Milad, not the use of the name in itself (which as far as I know is technically an 'innovation' according to the Wahabi understanding of it).
.

Specific practice? Read again few times:

''This poorling is of the opinion that unless this practice is completely given up, the interested persons would not cease taking advantage of it. If the practise is declared lawful, it would gradually lead to finding justification for other innovations also. Even a small mistake becomes a prelude to grave errors.''

[Maktubat Vol. III No 72 to Khwaja Hosam-ud-Din]

Ponder over "completely given up".

"I vehemently prohibit the practice of Moulood because it is contrary to our Path [Shariah]. I prohibit whatever is in opposition to our Path, whether the contrary act be Simaa’, Riqs [Spiritual dance and music], poetry, music, and Moulood practices."

First he prohibits Milad. Then he says Sima, Riqs, Music and mentions Milad again. So all the above are haram individually.

Music is loved by Haqqanis. Their gatherings have much more, such as mingling between males-females.

[jokiruss]

I guess like parrots we can thow quotes at each other, I'm not really into that game. Especially when my quote is ignored. Its clear Imam Sirhindi (R) allowed Meelad, as he in fact mentions it. It seems you believe he contradicted himself, I don't think thats the case.

I believe there was much more subtlety involved. In your quotes I find him attacking the practices of people who abused Milads. If you need an analysis of your quotes.. I see when sama and music is mentioned interestingly enough I see poetry is included in them.

Its clear that poetry is not haraam in itself, unless that is too what meaning you are taking from these quotes. Simple literalist readings of Imam Sirhindi (R) just don't work.

And earlier in that part Imam Sirhindi (R) is mentioning what is contrary to this "Path" which is the Tariqat Way of his time, not the Shariat. Does this apply to the Khalidiya of Shams or those who have initiation in more than one path, such as Shaykh Maulana Nazim (R)?

And there are no gatherings of Hakkani's with males and females. You have a disturbed vision created by others.

[Dilangos]

Salaam.

Well saw the Sufi healing videos by shayh nur jahan, in his sufi healing class, where there was a mixed gender class of dancing, it was posted on this site but got deleted by the mods; because it violated modesty.

Seen other videos on youtube and some hadrah in germany involving Shaykh Kabbani where there was also mix gender Hadrah.