[9wQlZkIj]

Allah make it easy. Dear brother, are you talking about something that happened on the forum or something that happened offline?



Are the people who used these words on the forum? If not they will not be able to explain it.

Ilm
Tasawwuf
Tabligh
Frontier Work

They all have to happen. If one can, he should do all this. If he cant he should do as many as he can. If he still cant he should get involved in at least one and then Support the other efforts as much as he can.

The Ultimate Objective of all efforts is what? Pleasure of Allah. There are many ways to get this. I have heard that the ways to Allah Ta'ala and gain His Pleasure are as many as the breaths of human beings. Some Mashaikh say that a persons breaths/ day are 24, 000. Then imagine how many breaths of all mankind combined.

The Rahmat of Allah Ta'ala and His Qabooliyat (acceptance) is not limited to any effort. It is not even limited to the 4 efforts mentioned above. The notion of people getting spoiled by going in Jamat may have been spoken by someone who does not understand the effort. Allah give us all understanding. I just met a brother who spent 40 days in Jamat and got out of drinking alcohol. Alhamdulillah

I have seen Sufis bashing Tablighis
I have seen Tablighis bashing Sufis
I have seen Ahle Ilm bashing Tablighis
I have seen Tablighis bashing Ahle Ilm
I have seen Alhe Ilm bashing Sufis and more

It is never ending. There are people who think only ordinary people should do Tabligh. Which is wrong, everyone should do it if they can. There are people who think Tabligh is enough and you need not learn Ilm or Zikr. You get all kinds of people brother

Assalamu alaykum

If you read my OP, Is that correct if someone thinks ahle-tasawwuf doing tableeg is demotion?



I have seen Sufis bashing Tablighis
I have seen Tablighis bashing Sufis
I have seen Ahle Ilm bashing Tablighis
I have seen Tablighis bashing Ahle Ilm
I have seen Alhe Ilm bashing Sufis and more The elders of both tasawwuf and tableeg hate that.

There are people who think Tabligh is enough and you need not learn Ilm or Zikr. There are people who think you have got ilm and zikr then why tableeg?

[Angry White American]

It can be vice versa. It is about balance at the end of the day and not be fanatical and avoiding gholoo.

[Muramoursuard]

Assalamu alaykum

Let me declare (rather swear), I have deep respect for Shuyookh and scholars of tasawwuf and khanqahs. I have visited many khanqahs. I have listened to the shuyookh and khulfa when they visit our city.

I am discussing here about the normal persons who visit the khanqah or listen to the dars (in simple words ordinary murideen). These brothers call the TJ saathees towards tasawwuf with the intention; to put in simple in words; to get elevation, promotion, super islaah etc.

But these friends think (may be I am wrong) that going in tableeg is demotion, means of getting spoiled etc. Also it is a just recommended activity, ordinary persons only should participate in TJ.

I am directing this towards people who are in tasawwuf and not in TJ.

I am not doing tashkeel to go in jamaath. But whether that approach is correct or not.

I do not see anything on this thread that you could not have found the answer from conducting a search of the forum. This exact discussion has been conducting on the forum many a times over.

I suggest you conduct a search in the future to gather intel into the matter and kindly suggest considering not to create a thread prior to this since it just contributes to the noise.

[Kalobbis]

I do not see anything on this thread that you could not have found the answer from conducting a search of the forum. This exact discussion has been conducting on the forum many a times over.

I suggest you conduct a search in the future to gather intel into the matter and kindly suggest considering not to create a thread prior to this since it just contributes to the noise.

Perhaps you should be more concerned about more silly oft repeated 'anti Madhab' propaganda done by some guy in the 'New Muslim' section. Why does the mods don't do anything about it? Kindly clean up the threads in that section.

Also there are multiple threads on Madhabs in the General section. Isn't conducting a search to 'gather intel' not applicable to them?




Edit: This thread also seems like an unnecessary one.

[Berta]

Assalamu alaykum

If you read my OP, Is that correct if someone thinks ahle-tasawwuf doing tableeg is demotion?

Ofcourse its not correct. If AhleTasawwuf do Tabligh it would bring better results. There are many who balance Tasawwuf and Tabligh alhamdulillah, if you look at them, they are all gems

[unmalryAlalry]

I agree with bro Ahmad Sharif that some Tasawwuf elders consider joining TJ as demotion.
But we have to ponder why they think so. It is because the faulty attitudes of layman TJ members. If any Murid stays at a high state of spiritual condition and joining with ignorant Tablighi people make harms of him instead of good, then it is a valid attitude.

The situation nowadays has become so bad that some Tablighi so called local elders have a little respect for Ulama/Mashaykh.
For example, in my area some of the teachers of our University are Ahle Shura. Once a professor (a member of Shura) was saying in his bayan- "No Pir is required for your Islah. Just make efforts of dawah, Allah will make your Islah."

Now tell me, if any Shaykh or Alim listen it, will he let his murid to go for Tabligh under this type of elders' supervision?

But it is not only Tablighi's fault. Ulama have become too busy to spend some time to purify the work of Tabligh. The imam of our central masjid is a great Mufti. He was the student of Shaykh Zakariyya .
He always point out the faults created by Tablighi people. It's good. But he has never visited our local Markaz. What's the problem if he sits with our ghair Alim elders and advise them about purifying the effort of Tabligh?
I've seen this attitude among a plenty of Ulama.

[Dildos]

Can we take the main problem mentioned in the OP as just one of the things in a days work?

[Goalseexere]

It seems like everyone on this thread has concluded that you can do only one or the other - If this is the case how do you folks hold jobs and still remain Tj's or spend time with your famlies and a still perform your prescribed awrad?

Like other brothers have said - there are extremists in every camp, they are not the norm, and are usually the least knowledgable of the group.

No one has even touched on the fact that there may be other reasons why someone would refrain from Tableeghi jamaat activities. I for one am involved in tassawuf, and I dont go kharooj with the Tj's, I have my own reasons. Reasons that need not be shared because I know how much the members of this forum love TJ.

So I may be one the people the OP was looking for when he asked his original question. I refrain from TJ not because of any of the reasons you listed, in fact those reasons sound a little dumb to me, but for a variety of other reasons (which will remain nameless so DONT ASK).

[unmalryAlalry]

It seems like everyone on this thread has concluded that you can do only one or the other - If this is the case how do you folks hold jobs and still remain Tj's or spend time with your famlies and a still perform your prescribed awrad?

Like other brothers have said - there are extremists in every camp, they are not the norm, and are usually the least knowledgable of the group.

No one has even touched on the fact that there may be other reasons why someone would refrain from Tableeghi jamaat activities. I for one am involved in tassawuf, and I dont go kharooj with the Tj's, I have my own reasons. Reasons that need not be shared because I know how much the members of this forum love TJ.

So I may be one the people the OP was looking for when he asked his original question. I refrain from TJ not because of any of the reasons you listed, in fact those reasons sound a little dumb to me, but for a variety of other reasons (which will remain nameless so DONT ASK).

I agree. Perhaps your attitude is mentioned by OP.

But Hazrat, if any layman who is engaged with TJ, uses your logic for showing the reason of not going to Mashaikh for his Islah, then what do you think about him? Are we not diving our Deen?

[Goalseexere]

I agree. Perhaps your attitude is mentioned by OP.

But Hazrat, if any layman who is engaged with TJ, uses your logic for showing the reason of not going to Mashaikh for his Islah, then what do you think about him? Are we not diving our Deen?

Your asking if a person decides not to take part in a particular Shaikhs programs or something based on the fact that this person may have some disagreements on what the Sheikh beleives or certain practices the Sheikh encourages or discourages?

I would say - That is a valid reason - here is a perfectly good example - many people on this forum are of the Deobandi persuasion, So if say you were invited to a Hadra organized by Sheikh Al Yaqoubis Mureeds - many may go, but not participate in the hadra because they have so fiqhi based problems with permisability of Hadras in general, however, you hold no hard feelings towards Sheikh Al Yaqoubi, you just choose not to partake in this activity which you may have doubts about. - This is how I feel about TJ, I love the TJ brothers, their some of the best brothers I know. When I come to new city, i seek them out above all others because they have good akhlaq, adhab and love Islam. But when they stand up and give their bayaan and end it with "..If we do not make this effort, who will. Who will go 3 days InsaAllah?" I politely decline.

If any Mureed of any Sheikh thinks that joining something is a "Demotion" - then they need to get DEMOTED immidiatly - what pridefull person thinks "No, tableegh is for the lower level Muslims, I am initiated into a Tarriqa going back to Rasooli Akram , I am above this Tableegh work" - My Sheikh would smack a Talib who even had this attitude in his heart and make him go live with the dogs outside for a month - and My Sheikh is no fan of Tablighi jamaat.

It does seem like people are dividing this the deen, and this is one of my problems with tablighi jamaat (I know I should stop typing, but Im going for it) - It seems that for many of the fervant laymen, who I forgive and hold no animosity towards, have made it seem as if you can not make "this effort" unless you follow the rules laid out by the TJ elders - Its not just Tableeghi jamaat who does "this effort" - tableegh and dawah goes on amongst other groups who are not affiliated with TJ, and to hold firm to some of the rules you guys hold firm too (aside from the sunnats) seems strange to me.

Please dont get upset at me for expressing my views, like I said, I love the individuals who comprise the tableeghi jamaat, and Ive been on this forum for 3 years and never attack you guys for what you do because your not hurting anyone in my mind and your not misleading anyone and you all have good pure intentions - its just not for me.

[Vzkdgdqx]

Hum thaali ke bainganon ki chandi hi chandi hai......hum har jagah pahunch jaate hain...'Ulama ke paas bhi, Tasawwuf ki mehfilon mein bhi aur jamaaton aur jodon mein bhi...baqi log jhagadte raho.

[ResistNewWorldOrder]

It can be vice versa. It is about balance at the end of the day and not be fanatical and avoiding gholoo.

what is gholoo..

[ResistNewWorldOrder]

Hum thaali ke bainganon ki chandi hi chandi hai......hum har jagah pahunch jaate hain...'Ulama ke paas bhi, Tasawwuf ki mehfilon mein bhi aur jamaaton aur jodon mein bhi...baqi log jhagadte raho.

Allah sub Thali ke bainganon aur khait kee mooliyoon ko aisa bana dai....aur khait kee mooliyoon aur thali ke bainganoon ke darmiyaan jhagra khatam kara de...Ameen

[Vzkdgdqx]

what is gholoo..

extremism.

[UHlVExs7]

Assalamu Alaykum

There is no doubt about the acceptance of the work of Tabligh. We just have to look how far and wide it has spread.

There are some undeniable facts. When a youngster goes off track, Shaykh or his mureeds won't come visit you, but the Tablighi saathis from the masjid will.

However, saathis do tend to be insular, making unthinking comments about tasawwuf or having a sly dig. I have heard this in masdhwera myself.

Going in jamat undoubtedly whets the appetite but because it has become common to neglect the usools, islah does not always take place. For example, you will see, what you call poorana saathis, speaking loudly after in the jamat khana in markaz after the Thursday night bayan. Furthermore, there are saathis, who have spent years in the effort but their Qur'an is still not sahih. In addition, I have heard poorana saathis fall in to gheebat in morning mashwera. Finally reliable Muftis have informed me that some things mentioned by common people in their bayans are actually not strictly correct.

One very poorana saathi in our locality actually said in urdu: 'how unjust that we make effort on the youth and other then poach them.' It was clear to me that he was having a dig at the Shaykh in our area. Sometimes love for the effort blindsthe person to their own faults.

I have also noticed Tablighi saathis treat non-tablighi ulama with less respect than they deserve and this is evidenced by how rarely they sit in their talks; the attitude being we are in a superior effort. Personally I feel this attitude is very dangerous for one's iman.

It is for these reasons that many people initially come on track via Tabligh, but ultimately seek islah via Tasawwuf. This is not the fault of Tabligh, but of the saathis generally.

[AgindyMinnife]

As I have understood Tablighi Jamat is one method of doing work of tabligh. If a Sufi Shaykh spends his life travelling the world, moving constantly from city to city and inviting people to Deen, then surely this is also tabligh? How dare someone say this person is not involved in work of tableegh? Is it because this Shaykh is using the internet as a medium of da'wah (for example)? Just because the Shaykh doesn't stick to every principle of TJ, does not mean he is not doing work of tabligh.

The real issue is that tasawwuf has been preserved via Tariqah, which necessitates (not in fardh/wajib sense, but in our own feeling) an individual to seek it out from a Kamil Shaykh. Elements of tasawwuf are found in the work of TJ, but it's not a substitute. I don't see a major problem if students of 'ilm and zikr don't join TJ because tabligh is a type of work which every Muslim will be involved with by virtue of being a practising Muslim (and if they are formal students of 'ilm and zikr then surely they are involved in tabligh already without TJ), but I do think it's a problem if TJ saathis consciously choose not to join 'ilm and zikr. That's disastrous, and it's very common. They have spent lots of 4 months, but haven't learnt much 'ilm and are not learning zikr. What's the point? What are you calling people to? Are you doing tabligh for ignorant people to do more tabligh? Why? Surely you're meant to do tabligh for people to learn 'ilm and zikr... that's one of our six points!

I think the OP was being unfair with his question and continuous reference to the "Opening Post" - what's the point? It's a fringe point and you keep referring back to it. How many sane people actually think working with TJ is a demotion? I think you'll find the reason for many students of Tasawwuf not being involved with TJ is because they are involved with tabligh elsewhere or their zikr/'ilmi pursuits have taken up most of their time and they are doing tabligh amongst a smaller circle of friends and family (due to time constraints - it doesn't mean they are not doing tabligh). Also, students of Tasawwuf are sometimes encouraged to stay away from people "to save the people from the filth within their own nafs". Now how is that attitude viewing TJ as a demotion?

There's a good book being made available online by ahlezikr on this topic Dangers of Neglecting Zikr. Work of TJ got exceptional qubooliyyat and is still running because of the deep 'ilm and zikr of Hazrat Mawlana Ilyas (ra), Hazrat Shaykhul Hadith (ra), Hazrat Mawlana Yusuf (ra), Hazrat Mawlana In'amul Hasan (ra) and current Ameer of the Jamat. It wasn't only because they were talented at TJ because TJ didn't exist initially anyway - remember this form of TJ started around 50 years ago; but formal 'ilm and zikr has been taking place from the early Islamic centuries.

And if people think we don't like TJ, then I spend a lot of time during weekdays at university with local TJs and get involved with local work, alhamdulillah.

[AgindyMinnife]

[SIZE=3]
Perhaps you should be more concerned about more silly oft repeated 'anti Madhab' propaganda done by some guy in the 'New Muslim' section. Why does the mods don't do anything about it? Kindly clean up the threads in that section.

This is a fair point and I'm sure taken by mods. Make du'a we keep up with responsibilities.

If you wish to reply to this then don't do it here - there's the Sensitive QA or the comments/suggestions thread.

du'as

[Dildos]

Hum thaali ke bainganon ki chandi hi chandi hai......hum har jagah pahunch jaate hain...'Ulama ke paas bhi, Tasawwuf ki mehfilon mein bhi aur jamaaton aur jodon mein bhi...baqi log jhagadte raho.

Tr:
We fluid people are winners in both ways. We go ever where-to the scholars, in the sufi meetings and in Jama-at too. Rest of you keep fighting.

Allah sub Thali ke bainganon aur khait kee mooliyoon ko aisa bana dai....aur khait kee mooliyoon aur thali ke bainganoon ke darmiyaan jhagra khatam kara de...Ameen

Tr:
May Allah make all the fluid and solid people like that. May the fighting between the two parties be over for ever. Ameen.

[Dildos]

extremism.

Extremism is ghuloo. He was asking about something like Gholoo or Goloo or Golu. That is the boy who is distributing tea.

[Vzkdgdqx]

Extremism is ghuloo. He was asking about something like Gholoo or Goloo or Golu. That is the boy who is distributing tea.

I see now, Sidi. He is asking about "gholoo". With a question mark, gholoo? would mean, "should I dissolve/mix."?