[Kokomoxcv]

South African Muslims have reacted with outrage to allegations that a leading meat importer labelled pork as halal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15753835

[JasminBerkova]

yah, its totally sick...

[sandracuk]

Yes, this is why I don't trust meat unless I see it slaughtered in front of me (I live in America). But inshallah incidents like these that end in litigation will make both sellers and customers take it more seriously.

But on a different note, how could you not tell it was pork by looking at it? Pork looks nothing like goat/cow/chicken.

[JasminBerkova]

Yes, this is why I don't trust meat unless I see it slaughtered in front of me (I live in America). But inshallah incidents like these that end in litigation will make both sellers and customers take it more seriously.

But on a different note, how could you not tell it was pork by looking at it? Pork looks nothing like goat/cow/chicken.

Yup, we don't trust halal signs either (with meat), I think the pork was probably made into products or else everyone would have seen that it was pork!

[laperuzdfhami]

Slm,

'Pork looks nothing like goat/cow/chicken.'

Agreed it does not but apparently it was pork hearts (not the actual muscle/flesh with bone pieces, which we call 'chops' etc.)

I only buy from reputable (muslim) butchers directly (not from the shop shelves.)

[KuRoregioNka]

The Halaal certification "industry" is in a huge mess here in South Africa. Worst part is that "Ulama" are in the fore front.

[Garry Richardson]

More details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr38FTHu_AQ

This is sick.

[Imihooniump]

The Halaal certification "industry" is in a huge mess here in South Africa. Worst part is that "Ulama" are in the fore front.

no its not. we have from among the best certification authorities in the world. These meats did not go by any one of them. The halaal logos used, were from other countries. Do you think the company would use MJC, SANHA, ICSA or NIHT logos illegally. Chances are that most of the meats were exported again from South Africa.

[laperuzdfhami]

The Halaal certification "industry" is in a huge mess here in South Africa. Worst part is that "Ulama" are in the fore front.

Slm,

Please enlighten us which 'Ulema' are in the fore front?

[JasminBerkova]

The Halaal certification "industry" is in a huge mess here in South Africa...

agreed. its one, huge, sticky, stinky mess. not the first time there's "pork" involved with halaal certification issues here. best to be safe and do your own investigations on the meat/chickens you consume.

[Imihooniump]

agreed. its one, huge, sticky, stinky mess. not the first time there's "pork" involved with halaal certification issues here. best to be safe and do your own investigations on the meat/chickens you consume.

lets see how far you get. tell us how will you independantly investigate the slaughter houses. do you think you can jsut walk in. & then if all the muslims in the country wanted to do their own investigation. they all walk in. if you want just buy your own chicken, sheep & cow & do the job yourself. & remember you will have to be there to watch & listen for the basmalah.

[laperuzdfhami]

LOL! We should all take up farming and slaughter our own sheep, cows & chickens the shari way (to be sure...) As long as you trust your muslim butcher you should be ok (refrain from purchasing pre-packed meat products from supermarkets.)

[JasminBerkova]

lets see how far you get. tell us how will you independantlyinvestigate the slaughter houses. do you think you can jsut walk in. & then if all the muslims in the country wanted to do their own investigation. they all walk in. if you want just buy your own chicken, sheep & cow & do the job yourself. & remember you will have to be there to watch & listen for the basmalah.

slaughter houses...? okay we never going to agree here. i dont need to investigate any slaughter house because i don't have any intentions of ever swallowing a bite of chicken that was slaughtered in a slaughter house! not only for halal reasons, its just plain and simply animal cruelty. have you ever watched a video of what goes on in a slaughter house??? i suppose not.

have you ever asked yourself WHY muslims, even ulama cannot go and inspect a chicken slaughter house without the prior permission and first notifying the "industry" which supplies the halaal certification for the plant???

and to answer your question, ppl in S.A who don't eat the chickens from slaughter plants are all not farmers! there are ppl who get live chickens and go to certain farms where they slaughter (or get someone they trust to slaughter) the sunnah shar'ee way, without stunning, terrorizing and brutalizing the animal. is it really such a problem to get two to three halal chickens a week? and even if you genuinely could'nt, it doesn'nt make haraam halaal, nor does it make doubtful undoubtful.

if anyone is interested in thinking about what the chicken (the innocent creation of ALLAH) had to go through in the slaughter-house to arrive on your plate, plz watch these vids.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVBsTBNsg0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUztBB5ry8
https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?id=1552
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvega...terhouses.html
www.upc-online.org/slaughter/report.html
www.thechickentruth.comuf.com/

[Kokomoxcv]

Im surprised that a country like south africa where many muslims have been there for many many years with influential established and wealthy muslims amongst the masses can't open thier own slaughter houses?

I mean if they do and let one of the big ulama orgs run the slaughter houses then the problems and doubts would insha'allah disappear, what do you people think?

[JasminBerkova]

Im surprised that a country like south africa where many muslims have been there for many many years with influential established and wealthy muslims amongst the masses can't open thier own slaughter houses?

I mean if they do and let one of the big ulama orgs run the slaughter houses then the problems and doubts would insha'allah disappear, what do you people think?

great idea! if they can do everything according to the shariah they'll be absolutely no problem and it will be fabulous. there is a huge demand for halaal shar'ee slaughtered chickens in S.A.

[KimLinbert]

The problem is that many people feel that there is nothing wrong with the current status quo in South Africa due to a number of reasons. It reminds me of the english saying, "The elephant in the room!!" The faults in the current system are blatantly obvious. However, for a variety of reasons including the huge income received it is not feasible for certain entities who have the power to drive through change to do so.

Whatever the excuse proffered those people need to seriously reflect the answer they will give in the Court of Allah Ta'ala on the Day of Qiyaamah. People forget that insaan can be hoodwinked but not so with Allah Ta'ala who is most perfectly informed of all what His creation do.

May Allah Ta'ala save us from making excuses for our nafs.

[JasminBerkova]

Yes but alot of people are aware that the chickens are haraam and abstain from eating them. but just so many people know that the chickens are haraam and continue eating them.

just a few days ago there was this person going on about how these chickens are absolutely haraam and detrimental to one's health and imaan etc. someone asked him: do you eat those chickens yourself? he replied: Yes i do, because there's no alternative and its so tasty..!

SICKKKK.

[Imihooniump]

Yes but alot of people are aware that the chickens are haraam and abstain from eating them. but just so many people know that the chickens are haraam and continue eating them.

just a few days ago there was this person going on about how these chickens are absolutely haraam and detrimental to one's health and imaan etc. someone asked him: do you eat those chickens yourself? he replied: Yes i do, because there's no alternative and its so tasty..!

SICKKKK.

so you dont buy any chicken, beef or mutton from any butcher, you have it killed yourself on a farm. just remember these chickens are not haraam they are doubtful acording to some. to lable something haraam which is halaal is wors than taking a haraam & making in halaal. & we dont know what realy takes place at slaughter houses because we not there. cruelty to animals is haraam but eating the meat from an animal which is beaten before being slaughtered is not haraam.

[JasminBerkova]

so you dont buy any chicken, beef or mutton from any butcher, you have it killed yourself on a farm. just remember these chickens are not haraam they are doubtful acording to some. to lable something haraam which is halaal is wors than taking a haraam & making in halaal. & we dont know what realy takes place at slaughter houses because we not there. cruelty to animals is haraam but eating the meat from an animal which is beaten before being slaughtered is not haraam.

Yes, we don't actually go and slaughter ourselves,,, There is a small place/butcher somewhere in the free state that slaughter's the 100% halaal way (without even stunning their animals) and delivers the meat//products etc. to gauteng, we get it from there.

We know whats going on in slaughter houses coz there's ample video's and evidence available, which of course can't be seen with closed eyes.

They a are million% haraam according to lots of ulama.

This is not beating an animal before slaughtering it, its brutally KILLING, DROWNING, ELECTROCUTING and MURDERING the animal.

How is it worse to make something halaal haraam than to make something haraam halaal?

Anyway its only becoming of a mu'min to abstain from doubtful, so we should abstain from the chickens since its evidently doubtful if not totally HARAAM.

Also, due to health and hygienic reasons its not fit for consumption according to many kuffaar.

[Imihooniump]

Yes, we don't actually go and slaughter ourselves,,, There is a small place/butcher somewhere in the free state that slaughter's the 100% halaal way (without even stunning their animals) and delivers the meat//products etc. to gauteng, we get it from there.

We know whats going on in slaughter houses coz there's ample video's and evidence available, which of course can't be seen with closed eyes.

They a are million% haraam according to lots of ulama.

This is not beating an animal before slaughtering it, its brutally KILLING, DROWNING, ELECTROCUTING and MURDERING the animal.

How is it worse to make something halaal haraam than to make something haraam halaal?

Anyway its only becoming of a mu'min to abstain from doubtful, so we should abstain from the chickens since its evidently doubtful if not totally HARAAM.

Also, due to health and hygienic reasons its not fit for consumption according to many kuffaar.

So then you only eat the food you cook yourself, you don’t eat out, no whimpy, steers, machachos, bismillahs if you in JHB, no spurs, you don’t go to weddings or you don’t eat there, you only eat the food of family members who buy from the same man. Why not just go to lenasia life stock. They go chicken & you can choose your sheep.
Remember not everyone can go out to free state. & when the butcher is well known for his halaal meat, we all gona go & then we back to the mass production. & by the way are we sure that they stun the halaal sheep & cows too. Im sorry but I can’t believe that so many muslim ulama walk in to a slaughter house & the owners pay for a certificate & still don’t follow procedure. If this is going back to the rainbow chicken story in DeDuer then know this, the supervisor that resigned phoned into the radio station & gave a statement. & what he said is nothing like what the ulama that were carrying out the witch hunt said.
As far as making it haram if not so- halaal food is a bounty of Allah do you want to say that it is haram to eat from the bounty of Allah. Yes abstaining is better & if you wish then do it for yourself but don’t say its haram for all. Its like when you don’t drink coke because you would be supporting Israel, you show that zuhd but you don’t force it on others.