[laperuzdfhami]

So then you only eat the food you cook yourself, you don’t eat out, no whimpy, steers, machachos, bismillahs if you in JHB, no spurs, you don’t go to weddings or you don’t eat there, you only eat the food of family members who buy from the same man. Why not just go to lenasia life stock. They go chicken & you can choose your sheep.
Remember not everyone can go out to free state. & when the butcher is well known for his halaal meat, we all gona go & then we back to the mass production. & by the way are we sure that they stun the halaal sheep & cows too. Im sorry but I can’t believe that so many muslim ulama walk in to a slaughter house & the owners pay for a certificate & still don’t follow procedure. If this is going back to the rainbow chicken story in DeDuer then know this, the supervisor that resigned phoned into the radio station & gave a statement. & what he said is nothing like what the ulama that were carrying out the witch hunt said.
As far as making it haram if not so- halaal food is a bounty of Allah do you want to say that it is haram to eat from the bounty of Allah. Yes abstaining is better & if you wish then do it for yourself but don’t say its haram for all. Its like when you don’t drink coke because you would be supporting Israel, you show that zuhd but you don’t force it on others.

Slm,

I agree 110% with what the brother here is saying. We all know about the Rainbow chickens saga here which has been dragging on since the 90's and the feeling that a vast number of muslims here in SA has is that it's not about the 'halaalness' of the products but more about competing halaal bodies (read ulema of oposing sects etc.) issuing the certificates (and offcourse there is money involved.) So this weekend I will be busy slaughtering my chickens to chow next week...

[KimLinbert]

@Brother SASLAMS:

When even the faraaidh of slaughtering in those slaughter houses cannot be proven to have taken place you are still questioning whether it is 'halal?'

Please let me know which fardh of slaughtering is carried out in full observance of the Shariah?

The current system of slaughtering is absolutely reprehensible in the eyes of Allah Ta'ala. It has absolutely no connection with the method of dhabihaa that our Rasul has taught us. Please inform me how the current emthod of slaughtering conforms with the teachings of Rasulullah ?

One of the most common excuses heard is that, "but the fardh is done....so we can eat it.!!" I always wonder whether those same people ever stand in salaah in the Musjid with a cloth only covering from their belly button to their knees. I wonder whether they will stand there bare chested and when they are about to be evicted from the Salaah shout out, "I am doing the fardh!!"

May Allah Ta'ala save us from the glib utterances of the tongue.

[suilusargaino]

I don't think the issue is that simple. Its not making halal into haram. Its making haram into halal.

ALL dead animals are haram to eat UNLESS its slaughtered in the name of Allah according to shariah.

So if the people we entrust to do this does not do slaughtering in the Islamic manner, the meat 'stays' haram. Maybe we do not know it, but the meat is NOT halal.

As for eating such meat or not is the decision of the Individual. But that does not make haram animal dead body into halal meat, unless slaughtered properly according to shariah.

[JasminBerkova]

So then you only eat the food you cook yourself, you don’t eat out, no whimpy, steers, machachos, bismillahs if you in JHB, no spurs, you don’t go to weddings or you don’t eat there, you only eat the food of family members who buy from the same man. Why not just go to lenasia life stock. They go chicken & you can choose your sheep.
Remember not everyone can go out to free state. & when the butcher is well known for his halaal meat, we all gona go & then we back to the mass production. & by the way are we sure that they stun the halaal sheep & cows too. Im sorry but I can’t believe that so many muslim ulama walk in to a slaughter house & the owners pay for a certificate & still don’t follow procedure. If this is going back to the rainbow chicken story in DeDuer then know this, the supervisor that resigned phoned into the radio station & gave a statement. & what he said is nothing like what the ulama that were carrying out the witch hunt said.
As far as making it haram if not so- halaal food is a bounty of Allah do you want to say that it is haram to eat from the bounty of Allah. Yes abstaining is better & if you wish then do it for yourself but don’t say its haram for all. Its like when you don’t drink coke because you would be supporting Israel, you show that zuhd but you don’t force it on others.

Okay sure, i wont force it on you or anyone else, everyone is blessed with a mind to think for his/herself and is ultimately going to be answerable for what they consume...
i can add alot more to this post but i feel its going to be quite useless so i'll just end it here.

[Imihooniump]

@Brother SASLAMS:

When even the faraaidh of slaughtering in those slaughter houses cannot be proven to have taken place you are still questioning whether it is 'halal?'

Please let me know which fardh of slaughtering is carried out in full observance of the Shariah?

The current system of slaughtering is absolutely reprehensible in the eyes of Allah Ta'ala. It has absolutely no connection with the method of dhabihaa that our Rasul has taught us. Please inform me how the current emthod of slaughtering conforms with the teachings of Rasulullah ?

One of the most common excuses heard is that, "but the fardh is done....so we can eat it.!!" I always wonder whether those same people ever stand in salaah in the Musjid with a cloth only covering from their belly button to their knees. I wonder whether they will stand there bare chested and when they are about to be evicted from the Salaah shout out, "I am doing the fardh!!"

May Allah Ta'ala save us from the glib utterances of the tongue.

akhi, please tell me-your salah relies upon that of the imaam completely. do you go & ask the imaam if he completed all the fara-idh during his salah & his shuroot or do you accept that he did it. do you ask him if he made his istinjah. the correctness of your salah depend on that of his. he would take offence wouldnt he & you expect him to follow through. so if a muslim slaugters why dont you expect him to folow through with it according to the shariah. can you prove that they do not slaughter according to the sharia or are your asuming. have you been there.

& yes if the fardh is done then its done, or are you making the sunnah wajib now. & yes if he were to complete the wajib of salah then his salah is complete or do you say other wise.

[Imihooniump]

I don't think the issue is that simple. Its not making halal into haram. Its making haram into halal.

ALL dead animals are haram to eat UNLESS its slaughtered in the name of Allah according to shariah.

So if the people we entrust to do this does not do slaughtering in the Islamic manner, the meat 'stays' haram. Maybe we do not know it, but the meat is NOT halal.

As for eating such meat or not is the decision of the Individual. But that does not make haram animal dead body into halal meat, unless slaughtered properly according to shariah.

its actualy all animals are haraam to eat unless slaughtered by islamic manner. but if a muslim tells you that its done according to islamic manner then it is halaal & you will have to prove it haraam. & who are we to judge the next muslim.

[Imihooniump]

Okay sure, i wont force it on you or anyone else, everyone is blessed with a mind to think for his/herself and is ultimately going to be answerable for what they consume...
i can add alot more to this post but i feel its going to be quite useless so i'll just end it here.

i would still like to know about your eating habits though. do yoiu eat out, do you eat a wedings & do you eat at family members homes.

[suilusargaino]

akhi, please tell me-your salah relies upon that of the imaam completely. do you go & ask the imaam if he completed all the fara-idh during his salah & his shuroot or do you accept that he did it.

Brother is the above mentioned analogy from a scholar or yourself?

[suilusargaino]

its actualy all animals are haraam to eat unless slaughtered by islamic manner. but if a muslim tells you that its done according to islamic manner then it is halaal & you will have to prove it haraam. & who are we to judge the next muslim.

Bro, There are many incidents which have been reported that there is 'foul play' done by so called halaal companies. So since there is an existing suspicion, My personal opinion is that one can cross check since the issue is doubtful.

[JasminBerkova]

@Brother SASLAMS:

When even the faraaidh of slaughtering in those slaughter houses cannot be proven to have taken place you are still questioning whether it is 'halal?'

Please let me know which fardh of slaughtering is carried out in full observance of the Shariah?

The current system of slaughtering is absolutely reprehensible in the eyes of Allah Ta'ala. It has absolutely no connection with the method of dhabihaa that our Rasul has taught us. Please inform me how the current emthod of slaughtering conforms with the teachings of Rasulullah ?

One of the most common excuses heard is that, "but the fardh is done....so we can eat it.!!" I always wonder whether those same people ever stand in salaah in the Musjid with a cloth only covering from their belly button to their knees. I wonder whether they will stand there bare chested and when they are about to be evicted from the Salaah shout out, "I am doing the fardh!!"

May Allah Ta'ala save us from the glib utterances of the tongue.

urrm brother also please do tell us what you'll do if the imaam saheb tells you that he never made wudho, couldn't manage to before performing salaah.

also that apperanly he was expected to do his wudho in the space of 4 seconds so he cant be certain if the mere faraidh of wudhu was even observed.

and theres ample evidence that he never made wuchu before performing salaah.

[Imihooniump]

Brother is the above mentioned analogy from a scholar or yourself?

from myself, why?

[Imihooniump]

Bro, There are many incidents which have been reported that there is 'foul play' done by so called halaal companies. So since there is an existing suspicion, My personal opinion is that one can cross check since the issue is doubtful.

no then you questioning his imaan. would you like someone to come to you & ask you if its halaal when you slaughtered it. & then you say yes & he asks a whole lot of questions like did you cut the artery, did you say bismillah.

[KimLinbert]

akhi, please tell me-your salah relies upon that of the imaam completely. do you go & ask the imaam if he completed all the fara-idh during his salah & his shuroot or do you accept that he did it. do you ask him if he made his istinjah. the correctness of your salah depend on that of his. he would take offence wouldnt he & you expect him to follow through. so if a muslim slaugters why dont you expect him to folow through with it according to the shariah. can you prove that they do not slaughter according to the sharia or are your asuming. have you been there.

& yes if the fardh is done then its done, or are you making the sunnah wajib now. & yes if he were to complete the wajib of salah then his salah is complete or do you say other wise.

My brother I am not required to investigate whether the Imaam has done wudhu correctly or not. This is the Imam's responsibility. However, if I know that something is not being carried out Islamically then it becomes my duty to change it with my hand, tongue, speech and the least is to have an aversion in my heart.

Your last comment is very dangerous. Nobody is making the sunnah fardh. However, the wholesale practice of Makroohaat (reprehensibilities) repeatedly and with impunity renders it the obligation of people to challenge it.

My question still stands why do those Ulama who know very well that nearly every makrooh practice is being carried out in these slaughterhouses inform the poeple to perform their salaah bare chested?? Atleast inform the people correctly and not take the responsibility of thousands from this ummah consuming at the very least doubtful food.

Please also inform me as I have asked before as to how the current method of slaughtering conforms with the teachings of Rasulullah ? Does this not matter? Does our Imaan allow us to consume meat that is in flagrant violation of the Shariah?

This conversation will carry on and we will continue to go round and round in circles.

I ask you of one request which please grant me. That is do you feel in the depths of your heart that Rasulullah would sanction the practices of the slaughter houses? Let us for once forget the technicalities and focus on this. You do not need to inform me of what you heart feels I only want you to soul search objectively. if you do this sincerely you will find the answer.

May Allah Ta'ala grant you aafiyat in this world and the next.

[Imihooniump]

urrm brother also please do tell us what you'll do if the imaam saheb tells you that he never made wudho, couldn't manage to before performing salaah.

also that apperanly he was expected to do his wudho in the space of 4 seconds so he cant be certain if the mere faraidh of wudhu was even observed.

and theres ample evidence that he never made wuchu before performing salaah.

i would like to find an imaam who would do that. but I would repeat my salah & if I new before hand that he did not perform wudho I would start a new jamaat & let him see me do it. or I would jsut stand by him & make mufaraqah.

[suilusargaino]

from myself, why?

Bro, my sincere request is that we shouldn't be deriving analogy on religious matters by ourselves. It has dangerous consequences. Especially we don't have the depth in knowledge. Our personal opinions and understanding have no value, unless we are from the Ulema or quoting from them.

[JasminBerkova]

i would still like to know about your eating habits though. do yoiu eat out, do you eat a wedings & do you eat at family members homes.

, , , its the first time someone is so concerned about what i eat! to answer your questions...

1) we do eat out, we order non-meat dishes.
2) same goes at weddings, we avoid meat. that's not hard since many in my family is vegan so people generally make veg dishes if they invite us. we eat everything at the wedding if we know that the meat is 100% halaal - if u live in S.A you will know that there are actually many people who are very strict on halaal meat issues. there's no problem there.

3) we eat at family members homes. they know we are particular with our meat - most of them are as well, and those who aren't dont force us to eat their meat.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

[suilusargaino]

no then you questioning his imaan. would you like someone to come to you & ask you if its halaal when you slaughtered it. & then you say yes & he asks a whole lot of questions like did you cut the artery, did you say bismillah.

Akhi as i said before, personal analogies are detrimental and misleading.

[suilusargaino]

@Everyone

None of us have the right to pass off personal opinions and understandings.

Quote from the 'Ulema or else be silent.

I ain't gonna post anymore in this regard.

[Ggskbpbz]

Assalamu alikum Muslim brothers and sisters
I was just wondering whether you get sins (ethm / znoob) if you eat something which is forbidden in Islam ( haram) without knowing?
[ for example a friend in mine was in Germany once and ordered something she thought meant chicken ( from the german classes that she took ) but it turned out to be pork;
does she get sins for that? ]
wasalam

[heennaRaf]

Pork is Haram.According to Quran.
O muslims, What is the criteria of Hilal ? Did any one consulted Quran. You think only saying Takbeer at the time of Slaughter will make you janwar halal(i am not talking about Pork here, I am talking about Chicken,goat Cow or any other bird animal which are halal to eat).But if a biddati or Mushrik is slaughtering even with saying Takbeer. That very Zabeeh is haram.

Allah Said in quran, Jannat is haram on Mushrik his place is in Hell.(5:72)
If all of Ibadat of Mushrik is useless in front of Allah and marriage with Mushrik is prohibitted with Mushrik then how come his zabeeh is Halal. So be careful in eating meat. Because when you'll eat that meat slaughtered by biddati or mushrik then you ate haram, This meat is worst then Pork.