[seicslybearee]

http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/17/pakis...ga-chruch.html

What should a muslim government do when this happens? Is it allowed in Islam to build churches inside a muslim country? Don't tell me that Pakistan is not a muslim country, it is even though the practising muslims are few... Very sad...

[eFDMBwKH]

http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/17/pakis...ga-chruch.html

What should a muslim government do when this happens? Is it allowed in Islam to build churches inside a muslim country? Don't tell me that Pakistan is not a muslim country, it is even though the practising muslims are few... Very sad...

Are you saying that churches shouldn't be allowed to be built in Muslim countries? Should mosques also be banned from Christian countries?

[ELURNSERB]

Are you saying that churches shouldn't be allowed to be built in Muslim countries? Should mosques also be banned from Christian countries?

He is asking,
in fact some christian countries do their best to avoid to build mosques, in my country is no one as local government succesfully refuses to give prersmission to build mosque, for more then 10 years now.

[seicslybearee]

"Are you saying that churches shouldn't be allowed to be built in Muslim countries? Should mosques also be banned from Christian countries?"

Dont put words in my mouth, I didn't ask you the questions anyways... I asked the people with knoledge...

[AlexClips]

I don't know exactly if an "Islamic" allows or forbids building of Un-Islamic religious buildings but I'd assume they forbid it going by Saudi Arabia. If true then this goes on to further suggest that non-muslims are treated as second-class citizens in an "Islamic" state.

Anyway, with me being a Pakistani, I know that non-muslims in Pakistan have the right to build whatever religious building they want. There are numerous Churches in Pakistan and I've been privileged enough to visit some of the most famous and beautiful ones.

[nofkayalk]

Are you saying that churches shouldn't be allowed to be built in Muslim countries? Should mosques also be banned from Christian countries?

Most western countries are secular countries. Vatican is a religious country. Will Vatican allow a mosque?

[eFDMBwKH]

Most western countries are secular countries. Vatican is a religious country. Will Vatican allow a mosque?

The Vatican is a religious enclave, not a country. In fact, one of Europe's biggest mosques is on the hill directly overlooking it.

[Carfanate]

The Vatican is a religious enclave, not a country. In fact, one of Europe's biggest mosques is on the hill directly overlooking it.

No, the Vatican is a country

See here for example: http://geography.about.com/b/2005/02...-a-country.htm

Anyway, lets say for example that Islam does not allow the construction of new Churches (I'm not saying that it does or it doesn't, I don't know). As long as it is proven that:

1). A creator exists
2). The Creator has not allowed Churches to be built in an Islamic State

Then the no one can object to the refusal of Churches to be built in an Islamic State, as the Creator is the only objective conceptual anchor of morality. So if it does not seem like it's fair to you that Churches are not to be built in an Islamic State, your opinion does not matter in the slightest if the Creator commands the opposite. Note, I follow only what the Creator has commanded and am in no position to tell you whether He has allowed the building of Churches or not; I am only telling you that just if you don't like what you hear, doesn't mean it is not true, just like I don't like hearing Iraq was invaded even though it was

[eFDMBwKH]

No, the Vatican is a country

See here for example: http://geography.about.com/b/2005/02...-a-country.htm

Anyway, lets say for example that Islam does not allow the construction of new Churches (I'm not saying that it does or it doesn't, I don't know). As long as it is proven that:

1). A creator exists
2). The Creator has not allowed Churches to be built in an Islamic State

Then the no one can object to the refusal of Churches to be built in an Islamic State, as the Creator is the only objective conceptual anchor of morality. So if it does not seem like it's fair to you that Churches are not to be built in an Islamic State, your opinion does not matter in the slightest if the Creator commands the opposite. Note, I follow only what the Creator has commanded and am in no position to tell you whether He has allowed the building of Churches or not; I am only telling you that just if you don't like what you hear, doesn't mean it is not true, just like I don't like hearing Iraq was invaded even though it was

Other people have different opinions about the creator, though.

[Carfanate]

Other people have different opinions about the creator, though.

It doesn't matter about peoples opinions. Again, if it is proven beyond doubt that the Creator exists and He commands something, then His command is to be followed whether you personally like it or not as your personal like or dislike is not based on His infinite power, wisdom, justice and mercy

[eFDMBwKH]

It doesn't matter about peoples opinions. Again, if it is proven beyond doubt that the Creator exists and He commands something, then His command is to be followed whether you personally like it or not as your personal like or dislike is not based on His infinite power, wisdom, justice and mercy

It has not been so proven.

[Carfanate]

Just because you may not have encountered the proof does not mean that it hasn't been proven. I will do the following:

1. Prove God exists
2. Prove He makes commands and these commands are found in the religion He has gifted us- Islam

Whether He allows the construction of churches or not, I have no idea but whatever He commands must be obeyed since He is the Creator

So, an argument proving the existence of God can be found here: http://www.deoband.org/2010/03/aqida...-of-a-creator/

I want you to argue against it. If you are unable to, you should admit it and I can then go on to proving Point 2

[eFDMBwKH]

Just because you may not have encountered the proof does not mean that it hasn't been proven. I will do the following:

1. Prove God exists
2. Prove He makes commands and these commands are found in the religion He has gifted us- Islam

Whether He allows the construction of churches or not, I have no idea but whatever He commands must be obeyed since He is the Creator

So, an argument proving the existence of God can be found here: http://www.deoband.org/2010/03/aqida...-of-a-creator/

I want you to argue against it. If you are unable to, you should admit it and I can then go on to proving Point 2

I've come across all these ontological arguments before, and they're all basically the same.

[Carfanate]

I've come across all these ontological arguments before, and they're all basically the same.

If they're all the same (which they are NOT), then you should be able to provide counters for them. Do so one by one and they will be dealt with in the same manner.

Have you ever read the works of Islamic theologians such as Imam Ghazzali? Because if you have not, I highly doubt you have encountered these arguments before since all the western ontological arguments are based on the works of Thomas Aquinas and the argument linked to you has its foundations in an argument that precedes Aquinas

[eFDMBwKH]

If they're all the same (which they are NOT), then you should be able to provide counters for them. Do so one by one and they will be dealt with in the same manner.

Have you ever read the works of Islamic theologians such as Imam Ghazzali? Because if you have not, I highly doubt you have encountered these arguments before since all the western ontological arguments are based on the works of Thomas Aquinas and the argument linked to you has its foundations in an argument that precedes Aquinas

Sorry, I'm not here to study philosophy. I have better things to do with my time.

[Carfanate]

Sorry, I'm not here to study philosophy. I have better things to do with my time.

OK, cool. But when you decide to criticise or argue against any Islamic practice whatsoever, then the only real way to settle it would be to establish whether or not Islam comes from an objective source because if it does, it trumps all your subjectivity.

If two people argue over a particular issue and both believe they are correct with regards to their stance, then neither can be proven right or wrong other than in the manner mentioned above

[JasminBerkova]

Sorry, I'm not here to study philosophy. I have better things to do with my time.

im genuinely glad to hear that sis, its such a relief!

[suilusargaino]

It has not been so proven.

Hey let me tell you a bit of a news. A ship loaded with electronics automatically departed from the Port of Shanghai. Nobody actually loaded the goods into the ship, and the police couldn't trace the manufacturer of the electronic items. The ship had NO captain or auto navigational instruments. But It followed the correct route and touched Hong Kong, then it went around Cape Town and finally reached Liverpool.

All this happened without any Sailor.! Can you believe it?

[eFDMBwKH]

OK, cool. But when you decide to criticise or argue against any Islamic practice whatsoever, then the only real way to settle it would be to establish whether or not Islam comes from an objective source because if it does, it trumps all your subjectivity.

If two people argue over a particular issue and both believe they are correct with regards to their stance, then neither can be proven right or wrong other than in the manner mentioned above

Such a thing has never been established.

[eFDMBwKH]

Hey let me tell you a bit of a news. A ship loaded with electronics automatically departed from the Port of Shanghai. Nobody actually loaded the goods into the ship, and the police couldn't trace the manufacturer of the electronic items. The ship had NO captain or auto navigational instruments. But It followed the correct route and touched Hong Kong, then it went around Cape Town and finally reached Liverpool.

All this happened without any Sailor.! Can you believe it?

Was it done with computers and GPS navigation?