[theonsushv]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Lorelei:

Sister, Christians do exist in Saudi Arabia and are employed as workers. However, yes, their population is the minority, and they are not citizens.

However, in the earlier scenario, were we not speaking of citizens, U.K. citizens to be more precise?

Also, Sister, Allah created all land, but Allah has given us free will. Therefore, we find today the present Saudi Arabian government exercising its will, and the present U.K. government exercising its will on its citizens.

If you do not believe in Allah, however, that is an entirely different matter, Sister. Should you not 100% verify that He does not exist?

All right, Sister: Say I am wrong, and you are right, that He doesn't exist (when I know 100% that He does but let us suppose for this hypothetical situation that I do not). So, in my grave, I will have lost nothing and you will also have lost nothing when you turn to dust. We will both only be dead and beneath the ground. But say you are wrong about His existence. Then you, my dear Sister, will have lost everything while I would have gained everything. You will be poor and suffering in the hereafter, but I would be rich and have found eternal bliss. And only for one reason, a very small reason. Because you did not make the right choices when you had the right to exercise the free will Allah has given you, and I did. What a small thing that would make such a big difference. What is that small reason?

Verifying whether He exists.

Yesterday, when I asked you to watch those videos, you said you will, Sister. I am going to hold you to that, Lorelei, because I am trusting in your word. Whether you keep it or not is up to you, but I think the best of people, and I am relying on you to do for yourself what you said you will.

Sister, strangely, you will find that this Forum comprises of an exceeding number of reverts. They are people like you, and earlier they even had your values and beliefs, but now, they are as Allah wants them to be. Sister, you will find good people in every religion, culture, and race. But I have to say that you cannot find the level of goodness that you can in Muslims who have truly and completely submitted their will to Allah. I do not have anything to offer you, Sister, but kind words and this sincere advice that will cost you nothing to follow: Just one day, sit, sincerely sit, and for one moment, pray like this, "O God! I don't know if you exist or not, but if you do, guide me to you." That is it. No fancy words. Just sincerity. That is all the words would require of you.

May Allah open your eyes to the Truth.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[nofkayalk]

But touch is a basic human need, it's part of how we socialise. Why would God implant that need in us, then tell us it is wrong to act on it?

Sister, we can shake hands of the people of the same gender and hug them. We can hug and shake hands of close relatives of the opposite gender aunt/uncle, son/daughter, brother/sister, etc. However Muslims are generally not allowed to freely interact with anyone of the opposite gender, including talking frankly, laughing, joking and flirting.

You can shake hands with a Muslim woman. But even a Muslim woman cannot shake hands with a Muslim male.

[Wavgbtif]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Lorelei:

Sister, Christians do exist in Saudi Arabia and are employed as workers. However, yes, their population is the minority, and they are not citizens.

However, in the earlier scenario, were we not speaking of citizens, U.K. citizens to be more precise?

Also, Sister, Allah created all land, but Allah has given us free will. Therefore, we find today the present Saudi Arabian government exercising its will, and the present U.K. government exercising its will on its citizens.

If you do not believe in Allah, however, that is an entirely different matter, Sister. Should you not 100% verify that He does not exist?

All right, Sister: Say I am wrong, and you are right, that He doesn't exist (when I know 100% that He does but let us suppose for this hypothetical situation that I do not). So, in my grave, I will have lost nothing and you will also have lost nothing when you turn to dust. We will both only be dead and beneath the ground. But say you are wrong about His existence. Then you, my dear Sister, will have lost everything while I would have gained everything. You will be poor and suffering in the hereafter, but I would be rich and have found eternal bliss. And only for one reason, a very small reason. Because you did not make the right choices when you had the right to exercise the free will Allah has given you, and I did. What a small thing that would make such a big difference. What is that small reason?

Verifying whether He exists.

Yesterday, when I asked you to watch those videos, you said you will, Sister. I am going to hold you to that, Lorelei, because I am trusting in your word. Whether you keep it or not is up to you, but I think the best of people, and I am relying on you to do for yourself what you said you will.

Sister, strangely, you will find that this Forum comprises of an exceeding number of reverts. They are people like you, and earlier they even had your values and beliefs, but now, they are as Allah wants them to be. Sister, you will find good people in every religion, culture, and race. But I have to say that you cannot find the level of goodness that you can in Muslims who have truly and completely submitted their will to Allah. I do not have anything to offer you, Sister, but kind words and this sincere advice that will cost you nothing to follow: Just one day, sit, sincerely sit, and for one moment, pray like this, "O God! I don't know if you exist or not, but if you do, guide me to you." That is it. No fancy words. Just sincerity. That is all the words would require of you.

May Allah open your eyes to the Truth.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

The scenario you've outlined in called Pascal's Wager, but it falls down immediately because it's not a choice between one particular religion and atheism, but countless different religions and atheism. And in fact, if I were a god, I don't think I'd want people to believe in me just out of fear of hell. I'd want them to believe in me without any such threat.

[Wavgbtif]

Sister, we can shake hands of the people of the same gender and hug them. We can hug and shake hands of close relatives of the opposite gender aunt/uncle, son/daughter, brother/sister, etc. However Muslims are generally not allowed to freely interact with anyone of the opposite gender, including talking frankly, laughing, joking and flirting.

You can shake hands with a Muslim woman. But even a Muslim woman cannot shake hands with a Muslim male.

Why aren't genders allowed to mix like that? Doesn't that lead to all sorts of societal and psychological problems?

[nofkayalk]

The scenario you've outlined in called Pascal's Wager, but it falls down immediately because it's not a choice between one particular religion and atheism, but countless different religions and atheism. And in fact, if I were a god, I don't think I'd want people to believe in me just out of fear of hell. I'd want them to believe in me without any such threat.

Please respond to my post about cases where Muslim countries showed tolerance.

People should believe in God because they either believe He exists or doesn't exist. The issue of belief cannot be understood from threats. Yes obedience to God can be out of fear of hell and threat, but not belief. Belief is your belief whether or not you believe something to be true or not.

God wants people to obey His laws so that everyone can enter heaven. Sometimes threats work on some people.

Islam does not necessarily say all religions are completely false. For example we say Judaism and Christianity were correct religions in their time, but Muhammad peace be upon him, came with another set of laws to continue Judaism and Christianity. It is the same God and same concept but new laws and a new prophet. Also he purified all the misconceptions and false beliefs that crept into the two religions.

[nofkayalk]

Why aren't genders allowed to mix like that? Doesn't that lead to all sorts of societal and psychological problems?

God ordains whatever He wills. I don't have enough knowledge and wisdom to explain why God ordained what He ordained. But just from the top of my head it prevents some societal problems like infidelity, etc.

[Wavgbtif]

Please respond to my post about cases where Muslim countries showed tolerance.

People should believe in God because they either believe He exists or doesn't exist. The issue of belief cannot be understood from threats. Yes obedience to God can be out of fear of hell and threat, but not belief. Belief is your belief whether or not you believe something to be true or not.

God wants people to obey His laws so that everyone can enter heaven. Sometimes threats work on some people.

Islam does not necessarily say all religions are completely false. For example we say Judaism and Christianity were correct religions in their time, but Muhammad peace be upon him, came with another set of laws to continue Judaism and Christianity. It is the same God and same concept but new laws and a new prophet. Also he purified all the misconceptions and false beliefs that crept into the two religions.

No Muslim countries have ever shown the kind of tolerance that the modern West does, and yet the West is constantly attacked by Muslims. This can't go on indefinitely, without some sort of backlash.

[nofkayalk]

No Muslim countries have ever shown the kind of tolerance that the modern West does, and yet the West is constantly attacked by Muslims. This can't go on indefinitely, without some sort of backlash.

So you are saying because of the actions of some crazy terrorists all Muslims should be persecuted? Also you have to understand everything relatively. In that time Muslim countries were relatively equivalent to the west in terms of tolerance.

Are you saying British and American soldiers have not done atrocities in Muslim countries? What about Abu Ghraib prison and other incidents? If someone is against that kind of treatment does that now mean they should be against all British and Americans who did not commit those crimes?

[Wavgbtif]

So you are saying because of the actions of some crazy terrorists all Muslims should be persecuted? Also you have to understand everything relatively. In that time Muslim countries were relatively equivalent to the west in terms of tolerance.

I'm not saying they should be, all I'm saying is that they will be. If some sort of understanding isn't reached.

[nofkayalk]

I'm not saying they should be, all I'm saying is that they will be. If some sort of understanding isn't reached.

It may happen. But what's your point. All of us know something like that could happen. EDL has already started. But what is the point you are trying to make.

Also I am trying to provide facts from history, etc. - you cannot brush it aside by a mere statement. Please provide facts and compare them to the old Muslim countries vs. western countries of today.

I don't want to sound offensive, but I don't know how I should convey a polite tone on a forum.

[Orefsmisits]

I find it insulting and degrading. If they want to live in our country, they should adapt to our customs. If not, they are free to leave.

and then...

I'm not attempting to force my culture on anyone. I just want to understand why they do those things.

if you are so bothered about this then maybe you should start an epetition to get the law of the country changed because as it stands there is no law that says a person must shake the hand of another even if they dont want to.

[Wavgbtif]

It may happen. But what's your point. All of us know something like that could happen. EDL has already started. But what is the point you are trying to make.

Also I am trying to provide facts from history, etc. - you cannot brush it aside by a mere statement. Please provide facts and compare them to the old Muslim countries vs. western countries of today.

I don't want to sound offensive, but I don't know how I should convey a polite tone on a forum.

What I'm saying is that compromise has to be the way forward.

[Orefsmisits]

What I'm saying is that compromise has to be the way forward.

but...

I find it insulting and degrading. If they want to live in our country, they should adapt to our customs. If not, they are free to leave.

[Wavgbtif]

but...

If they won't compromise, why do they even want to stay here?

[theonsushv]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Lorelei:

Sister, that is the thing: You are not god. And if you did claim to be god, your claim would have to be substantiated. You are talking about a hypothetical situation, a scene that begs the imagination. And also other religions beg the same imagination (and I say this because I have studied them).

Also, Pascal's wager, as articulated, applies to Christianity, not Islam.

Did you not read when I said, "Verifying that He exists?"

I am talking about Allah, the One and Unique God. And He is the Reality. He has already substantiated His Existence as Truth through the Revelation, the Quran. And I am not talking about circular reasoning whereby a text says that god exists because the text says so. No. The Quran is an expression of miraculous Revelation, and that Revelation challenges the true seeker to test the Quran and accept when they can do nothing but accept when their challenges fail.

Sister, should you then not study the Quran? That is why I posted those videos, why I asked you to ask guidance of God. I am not asking you to believe because it is better to believe than not to believe, but I am asking you to differentiate between what is and what is not.

I am saying that you cannot ask me what would happen if the sun's color was pink when the sun's color is yellow. I am asking you to deal in reality rather than imagination of what you would do if you were god because that is besides the point. That is why I was, am, and will ask you (or even others interested) to investigate and pray, because you will need to do both before your mind will expand and remove the veil that your subjective interpretation of life puts over your perception. You are you, but you are you only because you think you are. But I am talking about Him, and He is not limited by your thinking, because He is and what "is" cannot be compared to perception because perception is limited whereas the "is" is not.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[Wavgbtif]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Lorelei:

Sister, that is the thing: You are not god. And if you did claim to be god, your claim would have to be substantiated. You are talking about a hypothetical situation, a scene that begs the imagination. And also other religions beg the same imagination (and I say this because I have studied them).

Also, Pascal's wager, as articulated, applies to Christianity, not Islam.

Did you not read when I said, "Verifying that He exists?"

I am talking about Allah, the One and Unique God. And He is the Reality. He has already substantiated His Existence as Truth through the Revelation, the Quran. And I am not talking about circular reasoning whereby a text says that god exists because the text says so. No. The Quran is an expression of miraculous Revelation, and that Revelation challenges the true seeker to test the Quran and accept when they can do nothing but accept when their challenges fail.

Sister, should you then not study the Quran? That is why I posted those videos, why I asked you to ask guidance of God. I am not asking you to believe because it is better to believe than not to believe, but I am asking you to differentiate between what is and what is not.

I am saying that you cannot ask me what would happen if the sun's color was pink when the sun's color is yellow. I am asking you to deal in reality rather than imagination of what you would do if you were god because that is besides the point. That is why I was, am, and will ask you (or even others interested) to investigate and pray, because you will need to do both before your mind will expand and remove the veil that your subjective interpretation of life puts over your perception. You are you, but you are you only because you think you are. But I am talking about Him, and He is not limited by your thinking, because He is and what "is" cannot be compared to perception because perception is limited whereas the "is" is not.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

All religions with holy books say the same thing though. I was told by some Mormons almost word for word what you just have, to read the Book of Mormon with an open mind and heart as a genuine seeker.

[Orefsmisits]

If they won't compromise, why do they even want to stay here?

lol im sure people did not come to the UK and were born in the Uk just to shake your hands lol

[theonsushv]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Sister Lorelei:

Yes, I know. All religions say similar things, also many same things, but all religions are not the same. It may surprise you perhaps, but like you, I called myself an atheist at one point in my life.

However, there is only one truth and one way to the Truth, and to figure it out, you may have to do do some legwork, and you may console yourself that nothing worth having is easy. Yes, I am saying the Quran is Revelation from Allah. But if you want, study Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, whatever, if you are in doubt. I did. I studied Islam the last, and there is a reason I am here not disbelieving in Allah this moment.

So, please do not think I am trying to convert you, because I cannot.

I am saying that you can revert on your own with the guidance and will of Allah. Anyway, I think I have said enough, and if you are sincere, you will do as I ask, because you will benefit yourself, not me, and I am not asking any wages for my words that you should run away from what I am saying.

Anyway, thank you for being honest.

May Allah guide, you, me and all of us to the Straight Path.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah, and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[KlaraNovikoffa]

Basically your views comes off like this:

If you Muslim men don't want to shake our hands then you can just leave the UK! Because understanding our ways of life is the way forward. But I want to understand your religion.


How ridiculous does that sound? Seriously...

[Carfanate]

If you believe that Muslim men not shaking your hand is offensive, whilst they believe the opposite, who is to decide who is correct? There is only subjectivity if you do not believe in God. Anyways, just because you do not believe in God does not mean He does not exists. I challenge you to provide an intellectual argument against the following: http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/?page_id=161

If you cannot find flaws in the argument, I will assume the argument is flawless and hence correct, meaning that God exists and you should therefore accept His existence