[DaleJrGirl]

Do malaysia machine slaughter their chickens?

Yes they do. They make sure that a person (Muslim) is there during the slaughtering. If he is going for a break, he will stop the machine and leave.

[Tyncneiff]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Minhaj

It is false to advertise if they mentioned hand slaughtered chicken on package but provide machine slaughtered. But using word Zabiha is not false slaughtering because many ulema think machine slaughter as zabiha. Zabiha means cutting. As I read or heard from ulema that it is Haram to kill anybody even the animal because they will complain on the day of quiyama about unnecessary killing. But Allah has given protection to Muslims for slaughtering Halal animals but Muslims must pronounce Allah's name at slaughtering. The Halal animal will accept his or her death happily because pronoucing the name of Allah and Allah will give ajar to those Zabiha slaughtered Halal animals. This way Allah protect Muslims from the ajab of killing animals. Although Allah made animals to help human being. This is the best argument against Muslims by vegetarian. So as Mufti saheb explained in the earlier post that it is very important to pronounce Allah's name on each animals and he provided the Ayat number 121 from Surat al-Anam.

Since the meat slaughtered by ahlekitab was Halal during the days of our Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu alaihi wassallum because Muslims, Jews, Christians are slaughtering animals same method and in the name of Allah but both Christians and Jews changed their slaughtering method. For kosher meat, Sachet(the only rabbi who is allowed to slaughter kosher animals) will say prayer on first animal and last but nothing on in between. If slaughtering 10 cows, he will say prayer on first cow and the 10th one but no prayer on 2-9 cows and he think by saying on first and last animal it will cover all in between. This is the reason kosher meat is not Halal. Now it is time for Muslims, this machine slaughtering is dividing Muslims and ulema. It is my advice to Muslims to be on safe side by determination or adopting taqwa to stay away from this controversy of machine slaughtering.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[aliceingoogs]

As-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

Where do you recommend businesses buy commercial halal meat from in the U.S.?

A Mufti and some religious brothers have started a farm in the Northern California area, but I am not aware of the size of their operation.

I've always heard Nuhi meat (I believe it operates somewhere near LA) is halal, although they sell both hand slaughtered and machine slaughtered chicken (the hand slaughtered chicken comes from a separate farm, so there isn't any danger of mixing).

[fuesquemill]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Minhaj

It is my advice to Muslims to be on safe side by determination or adopting taqwa to stay away from this controversy of machine slaughtering.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

Agreed 10000%. for the advice.

[iNYZgxNC]

A Mufti and some religious brothers have started a farm in the Northern California area, but I am not aware of the size of their operation.

I've always heard Nuhi meat (I believe it operates somewhere near LA) is halal, although they sell both hand slaughtered and machine slaughtered chicken (the hand slaughtered chicken comes from a separate farm, so there isn't any danger of mixing).

Thank you for your reply.

Do you happen to have the full name of the business around L.A. or any other in Northern California? I'm in Sacramento and wanted to enter into the food service and Restaurant Depot was to be my source, but now that is not going to happen.

[aliceingoogs]

Thank you for your reply.

Do you happen to have the full name of the business around L.A. or any other in Northern California? I'm in Sacramento and wanted to enter into the food service and Restaurant Depot was to be my source, but now that is not going to happen.

I'd contact Mufti Abdullah Nana.

He's located in the Bay Area, and is a member of this forum (though I haven't seen him on it for some time).

You can find his contact information here:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-amp-Articles

As far as I know, no one in the US (or, the West Coast at the very least) puts more effort into propagating the Halal foods agenda more than he does, may Allah reward him for that, so he should be able to fill you in on what kind of halal meats you can use, .

[iNYZgxNC]

I'd contact Mufti Abdullah Nana.

He's located in the Bay Area, and is a member of this forum (though I haven't seen him on it for some time).

You can find his contact information here:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-amp-Articles

As far as I know, no one in the US (or, the West Coast at the very least) puts more effort into propagating the Halal foods agenda more than he does, may Allah reward him for that, so he should be able to fill you in on what kind of halal meats you can use, .

Thank you.

[DaleJrGirl]

Thank you.

This is what Mufti has said before:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ry-Fresh-halal

[Tyncneiff]

Assalam O Alaikum

I used to work for a nutrition bars company in Fairfield, CA in early 2000 at that time machine slaughtering was not common. But I was told a slaughtering farm near Santa Rosa owned by a Muslim. I used to buy beef from a Arab brother near Masjid Noor in Sacramento, from East West foods owned by a Pakistani in Sacramento, CA, on San Pablo Ave in Berkeley, CA. The best place is probably near Santa Rosa but you have to verify them. Although I am not in Zabiha Halal meat certification but I am educating US Muslims what Halal food products are available in 27 US supermarkets coast to coast including California 's 5 major supermarkets since very long time. They are listed in my Halal food book but do not contain any zabiha meat. It is my recommendation to Muslims to investigate yourself for Zabiha meat, do not buy any foreign zabiha slaughtered meat because it is very difficult to keep them isolated or tracing them and there is big chance of mix up and cross contamination. There are many honest Muslim zabiha suppliers in USA so why should we go to non Muslim owned meat companies?.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[autolubitelone]

Malaysia (JAKIM) used to allow machine/mechanical slaughtered meat but they changed their stance this year and they don't accept machine slaughter anymore:

Here's the link and the article is on Page #2 about Malaysia position change: http://www.fianz.co.nz/download/MUSL...%20JUL2010.pdf

Here's the official stance of FIANZ of New Zealand (It's on page number 4 of 6) : http://www.fianz.co.nz/download/Octr07newsletter.pdf (It's on page number 4 of 6)

[autolubitelone]

Shaykh Bouti (Arabic scholar) says you can't use mechanical slaughter:

هل من الجائز استخدام الذبح الآلي وفقاً لأحكام الشريعة الإسلامية؟

سماحة الشيخ عبد الله بن سلطان الظاهري المدير العام لمؤسسة زايد بن سلطان آل نهيان الخيرية: السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته وبعد: فإجابةً عن السؤال الذي توجهتم به إلي أقول لكم ما يلي: لا أعلم خلافاً بين علماء الشريعة الإسلامية، في أن التذكية نتيجة لعمل تعبدي يتوقف على فعل فاعل يتصف بالأهلية مع نية الذبح وقصد التذكية، وذلك لدى الإقدام على كل عملية ذبح على حدة. كما نص على ذلك الشربيني في مغني المحتاج (4/276) وصرّح بالاحتراز قائلاً: ((فلو احتكت شاة بسكين وهو في يده فانقطع حلقومها ومريئها، لم تحلّ)) وكما نص على ذلك الدردير في الشرح الصغير (2/154)، وكما نصّ على ذلك صاحب كشاف القناع (6/204) وكما نص عليه ابن عابدين وصاحب تنوير الأبصار على هامشه (5/195). يتضح من هذا أن تحريك آلة بمفتاح كهربائي أو نحوه، بحيث يستتبع تحريك شريط حاد يتسبب عند قطع حلقوم دجاج أو نحوه، من جراء توجهها إليه بشكل آليّ متتابع، دون فعل فاعل يتجه بالنية والقصد، عند ذبح كل واحدة منها، لايدخل بالاتفاق في عملية الذبح المطلوبة تعبداً، ومن ثم لايذكيها هذا القطع الآلي ولا يحلّ أكلها. وتفضلوا بقبول خالص تحياتي وتقديري. محمد سعيد رمضان البوطي رئيس قسم العقائد والأديان بجامعة دمشق عضو قسم الفقه الإسلامي ومذاهبه بجامعة دمشق
Shaykh Salih Fawzan (Arabic scholar) audio answer in which he says mechanical/machine slaughter can not be considered Halal and Zabiha:
نص السؤال بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم ، يقول فضيلة الشيخ وفقكم الله: ما حكم استخدام الأجهزة الآلية في ذبح الدجاج مع ذكر اسم الله عليه عند ذبح أول دجاجة أو أن يشغل شريطا فيه ذكر اسم الله وتقوم الأجهزة بالذبح ؟http://www.alfawzan.ws/node/3704

[HassFks]

Yes they do. They make sure that a person (Muslim) is there during the slaughtering. If he is going for a break, he will stop the machine and leave.

in singapore, they do hand slaughter but the only issue is they stun the chicken but supposedly they think it(mechanical slaughter) is ok.

http://www.muis.gov.sg/cms/services/hal.aspx?id=1708

[fuesquemill]

so this mechanical knife operated by a man saying Tasmiyyah one by one ... is this permissible?

I remember reading Mufti Abdur Rehman's article on Zabiha meat and it stated something to the effect that the person has to be holding the chicken and the knife.. if the chicken is strapped to a conveyor belt, and the Muslim slaughter man is operating a mechanical knife... he is not actually engaged in that chicken is he? he isnt touching anything but buttons and metal..

Allahu Alam..

[Tyncneiff]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Mihaj,

The mechanical knife is atually circular knife runned by the machine. Circular knives are used in food industry to cut products such as brownies and I worked on those circular knives. This is pain in the neck machine and you have to have two sets. It get clogged up very soon with baked cookies material just after the oven. So one stop for cleaning the other operate and vise versa. But I do not how soon they change the knives in chicken slaughtering. This mechanical knife is also a trick to confuse Muslims that it sound like a Muslim holding a mechnical knife, nobody hold nothing. It is circular knife or knives who cut the throat of 140 chicken in one minute.

I think I have suggested on this forum that I worked on ULTRA SOUND knives on Nabisco Brownies. This is a very high velocity oscilating blade for fast cutting. I also worked on a single ultra sound knife for testing to see the quality of 4 sides of brownies. It can be made to slaughte chicken where Muslim slaugheterman can hold the ultra sound knife in his hand and slaughter the chicken. It will speed up the rate of hand slaughtering. This require feasibility study and research to see whether how much benefit against the cost because it is very expensive. Beside I also work on WATER JET Cutter a million dollar machine from Italy to use on high speed brownies lines. Nabisco used these cutters at several plants. I was in Nabisco plant in Chicago. It utilized the water at very high pressure through several horizontal and verticle nozzles for cutting to make a square brownies.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[autolubitelone]

Any Scholar, can you please remind people (for purposes of this thread) what the ruling would be for machine slaughtered chicken?

Some Ulama and I repeat...only a few Ulama in India did accept machine slaughtered chicken to be Halal. Majority said it's not Halal. Here's info on it in Urdu:

Urdu Fatwa book Na ay Masail or Ulamaay Hind Kay Faislay: http://ifa-india.org/download/faisle.pdf and the discussion is on page#179 of the book and page#169 of the Pdf.

[autolubitelone]

Some Ulama and I repeat...only a few Ulama in India did accept machine slaughtered chicken to be Halal. Majority said it's not Halal. Here's info on it in Urdu:

Urdu Fatwa book Na ay Masail or Ulamaay Hind Kay Faislay: http://ifa-india.org/download/faisle.pdf and the discussion is on page#179 of the book and page#169 of the Pdf.

For those who don't understand Urdu, here's the English translation of the above Urdu discussion: http://ifa-india.org/english/decisio..._Machines.html

[Tyncneiff]

Asalam O Alaikum Br. Zidane,

Those Indian Islamic scholars did not use the services of food scientists and their statement on Gelatin was wrong. Now days we are getting cough syrup without alcohol why they are making counter medicine Halal with alcohol. I was also disappointed about their verdict on machine slaughtering, how come they did not say about announcing name of Allah on each animal if they follow Hanafi fiqah.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[12Cickprior]

"Noor al-Jabal" branded chicken labeled as Halal and sold at Restaurant Depot is machine slaughtered from Mountaire Farms in Delaware. This was confirmed by their sale's manager [302-934-1100 ext 6361].

[iNYZgxNC]

"Noor al-Jabal" branded chicken labeled as Halal and sold at Restaurant Depot is machine slaughtered from Mountaire Farms in Delaware. This was confirmed by their sale's manager [302-934-1100 ext 6361].

Thanks for this info.

[12Cickprior]

Thanks for this info.

My pleasure. Another beneficial information is, in United States besides Nema, perhaps the biggest slaughterhouse that practice true Islamic hand slaughtering is as-Salam located in NY. Not only they don't use stunning [electrical shocking], but also their chickens are organically fed. Nema's products are all great, especially their mild Sujuk.

My preferred list so far consists of two:

1. Nema: for all lamb, beef, sujuk, pastirma, and chicken.
2. asSalam: for chicken.

I will add to the list once I find more reliable ones that practice Islamic hand slaughtering, InshAllah.