[Ebjjrxrd]

Why is there a gap between ulama and the masses?

Subhanna Allah.

There are multiple causes.
1)India is no longer an Islamic state. Kufr dominates India from top to bottom. When kufr dominates, it spreads and diminishes Islam. It occurred to Bani Israil under Roman rule even when the prophets (as) were among them.

bro Usama2, how do you cook fish kabsa?

[BalaGire]

Im not Indian but im guessing the reasons are the same in Pakistan, the youth are becoming very westernised, to the point where now even in their own country's they are speaking the language of the west to one another.

They probably look upon Maulanas as being backward villager types so they can't connect with them. It may help to get a few well english spoken ulemah to deliever lectures specifically directed at the youth in a manner that is effective. I think there is a darululoom in Pakistan Jamia al raheem i think, they have english as part of their syllabus. Here in the west the gap has decreased due to the younger maulanas who talk to the youth in a language they understand and give them examples from real life. the youth can relate to them more

wallahu alam

Thats much true. The partition between school and Madrassah took place almost some 130 years back when Sayyid Ahmed khan under certain influences set up the 'Muhammadan anglo oriental college' (Now known as Aligarh university) and the religious scholars of almost all the factions (except for those of Nadwa somewhat) of that era , as a reaction said goodbye to the worldly education. Both these discourses became alien to each other than. Either one had to be a mister or a Mawlvi. The college of Sayyid Ahmed khan has turned into the wide network of school/colleges/universities and the madrassahs have increased in the number as well.But since science has a huge grip on the popular imagination , people have been more interested in sending their kids to schools.

Various universities of Pakistan used to serve as nurseries for socialists and communist as the wave of these two doctrines was in fashion during the early days of Pakistan.The pulpit of classroom was left vacant for the communist professors to preach their inner beliefs.The phenomena has turned into scientific secularism/liberalism now. The induction of internet , new age culture and a specific hatred for 'maulvi' has deepened it. With all this happening in its very neighborhood , the pulpits of masjid and Madrassah has been busy in futile efforts to exterminate fellow sects , even in that they have been unsuccessful. While many like me have been the casualties of war .

[BalaGire]

Regarding the issue of Muslims youths in Hyderabad, I have not seen such things here. If you can elaborate some more points regarding that ....

A member made a post mentioning the dire situation in Hyderabad, i was taken by a grief after reading it. http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post644350

[cajonnmu]

Im not Indian but im guessing the reasons are the same in Pakistan, the youth are becoming very westernised, to the point where now even in their own country's they are speaking the language of the west to one another.

They probably look upon Maulanas as being backward villager types so they can't connect with them. It may help to get a few well english spoken ulemah to deliever lectures specifically directed at the youth in a manner that is effective. I think there is a darululoom in Pakistan Jamia al raheem i think, they have english as part of their syllabus. Here in the west the gap has decreased due to the younger maulanas who talk to the youth in a language they understand and give them examples from real life. the youth can relate to them more

wallahu alam

in our western india site,mostly madaris has computer section for students and al most all madaris entered english in their syllabus,also some madaris have their own school and some have colleges too.
bcoz of this young and educate generation is come near to madaris and uleema ,for example jamia akkakua have 16 different colleges in their complex in which round about 5000 students is studing in complete deeni atmosphere,this thing make changes

[tutkarussia]

Strange, I have seen the gap become smaller within the last ten years, in India and in Canada. Allah knows best.

[anolbom]

Assalamu alaykum

Strange, I have seen the gap become smaller within the last ten years, in India and in Canada. Allah knows best. Sister, what you are seeing is who are close are getting closer. I am speaking of those who are far are going farther.

[BalaGire]

"Jab ummat khayr par jama hojaayegi, toh Allah SWT ki ijtemaayi madad naazil hogi" - Hadrath Maulana Saad Saheb db

To me , its far fetched optimism. We do know that " Jab ummat khayr par jama hojaayegi, toh Allah SWT ki ijtemaayi madad naazil hogi" but the issue at hand is "Ummat Khair par kaisay jama hogi?" Rather even this sentence is a bit meaningless as we know La Yajm'u Allahu Ummati ala Dhalalan that Allah will never unite this ummah on mischief so the Tablighis should start thinking over the question in its refined form "Ummat Jama kaisay hogi?"

[buchmausar]

"Jab ummat khayr par jama hojaayegi, toh Allah SWT ki ijtemaayi madad naazil hogi" - Hadrath Maulana Saad Saheb db

To me , its far fetched optimism. We do know that " Jab ummat khayr par jama hojaayegi, toh Allah SWT ki ijtemaayi madad naazil hogi" but the issue at hand is "Ummat Khair par kaisay jama hogi?" Rather even this sentence is a bit meaningless as we know La Yajm'u Allahu Ummati ala Dhalalan that Allah will never unite this ummah on mischief so the Tablighis should start thinking over the question in its refined form "Ummat Jama kaisay hogi?"

Brother ati, your post always seems bit confusing to me..( i hope you are not gair muqallid) i think you are not tablighis (if yes answer,answer lies on you as well)...
However let me explain you this,khair par jama hone ka matlab yaqeen ka sahi hona aur amal ki pabandi hai.Aqaeed (belief) is not mentioned here,the one you presented La Yajm'u Allahu Ummati ala Dhalalan that Allah will never unite this ummah has to do with the correct belief (aqaeed) i.e. ALLAH will unite ummah to hold belief on which sahaba (razi) has consensus.Under this context Maulana saad db presented the mashoor hadith of 3 people trapped in cave closed with a big rock.The first presented his amal to ALLAH for invoking his (ALLAH`s) help,the rock slipped a bit but not opened to extent that even one should come out,then the 2 one invoked help by presenting his amal,rock slipped but still no way to come out & at last the complete rock was slipped by ALLAH,& all the 3 came out.NOW here ALLAH ne apni ijtemaayee madad nazil farmayee jab khair par ijtema hua.

Here all of 3 were on correct belief,but invoking help through amal (with Iqlaas) was the thing ALLAH wants from all 3.Likewise there are many stories in sahaba time as well.Toh ummat khair par jama us waqt hogi jab ALLAH se hone ka yaqeen aur amal par ALLAH ki madad ke aane ka yaqeen ijtemayee taur par ummat ke dil me paida ho jaayega.Aur jab yeh ijtemaayee taur par paida hoga toh ALLAH ijtemayee madad nazil karenge,And the one you presented that ALLAH will not unite ummah on mischief (mischief in basic doctrine of belief like shia,mutazaila etc)..

[Ebjjrxrd]

bro Aftab & others.

Don't argue with a fool.
Don't argue with someone who created this thread (link is below), posted this video from a channel named 'thetableeghisareliars' and later asked forgiveness saying that he did not 'notice' the name of the channel. Sad liar. And he is a 'doctor' I would prefer living with the disease than getting treated by someone like him who needs treatment himself.
Read on here

Though this is old hat, remember there are many ghayr muqallids - aswj / tj haters on SF masquerading as madhabis, the net is their biggest platform. Don't argue with them, it does not matter if they say Tj's are kafirs, munafiqs et al. If its on huqq, it'll spread, and if its not, it won't (& I believe its on huqq). Our field of work is different.

Remember this quote by Hadrath Imam Shaafi ra,
Imam ash-Shafi`ee –

"When the foolish one speaks, do not reply to him,
for better than a response (to him) is silence,
and if you speak to him you have aided him,
and if you left him (with no reply) in extreme sadness he dies." -courtesy bro amr123.

-chill bro, its a friday today & i still havent' read surah kahf.

[buchmausar]

bro Aftab & others.

Don't argue with a fool.
Don't argue with someone who created this thread (link is below), posted this video from a channel named 'thetableeghisareliars' and later asked forgiveness saying that he did not 'notice' the name of the channel. Sad liar. And he is a 'doctor' I would prefer living with the disease than getting treated by someone like him who needs treatment himself.
Read on here

Though this is old hat, remember there are many ghayr muqallids - aswj / tj haters on SF masquerading as madhabis, the net is their biggest platform. Don't argue with them, it does not matter if they say Tj's are kafirs, munafiqs et al. If its on huqq, it'll spread, and if its not, it won't (& I believe its on huqq). Our field of work is different.

Remember this quote by Hadrath Imam Shaafi ra,

-courtesy bro amr123.

-chill bro, its a friday today & i still havent' read surah kahf.

you turned my doubt in belief,yes he pretends to be hanbali but he is not..

[Pheddytrourry]

bro Aftab & others.

Don't argue with a fool.
Don't argue with someone who created this thread (link is below), posted this video from a channel named 'thetableeghisareliars' and later asked forgiveness saying that he did not 'notice' the name of the channel. Sad liar. And he is a 'doctor' I would prefer living with the disease than getting treated by someone like him who needs treatment himself.
Read on here

Though this is old hat, remember there are many ghayr muqallids - aswj / tj haters on SF masquerading as madhabis, the net is their biggest platform. Don't argue with them, it does not matter if they say Tj's are kafirs, munafiqs et al. If its on huqq, it'll spread, and if its not, it won't (& I believe its on huqq). Our field of work is different.

Remember this quote by Hadrath Imam Shaafi ra,

-courtesy bro amr123.

-chill bro, its a friday today & i still havent' read surah kahf.

i just took a look at that video, im not tableeghi and i don't believe jihad of the nafs to be the greater jihad....butttt....i don't understand one thing
The people who are arguing with the tablighi, they don't do what they are preaching, they preach jihad and shariah all day long but apart from shouting about it they don't actually do anything

the other day i came across salafis being against signing the petition for Babar Ahmed, because its not the way of the salaf. The salaf would have sent an enitre army to free a muslim prisoner
They don't gather an army, they don't make any physical effort but sit back and shout at those who make some kind of effort

[anolbom]

Assalamu alaykum.

The issue here is not with muqallids alone, it is with Gair muqallids too. They too have concern for their nears and dears. Their own children, son-in-laws, brother-inlaws, uncles, their neighbors, their employees etc. The first requirement is that these nears and dears have to come nearer to deen, then only they can present "Only Quran and saheeh hadeeth" theory.

So brothers and sisters let us discuss about the practical approach. "how to bridge the gap between common man and the ulema".

[BalaGire]

bro Aftab & others.

Don't argue with a fool.
Don't argue with someone who created this thread (link is below), posted this video from a channel named 'thetableeghisareliars' and later asked forgiveness saying that he did not 'notice' the name of the channel. Sad liar. And he is a 'doctor' I would prefer living with the disease than getting treated by someone like him who needs treatment himself.
Read on here

Though this is old hat, remember there are many ghayr muqallids - aswj / tj haters on SF masquerading as madhabis, the net is their biggest platform. Don't argue with them, it does not matter if they say Tj's are kafirs, munafiqs et al. If its on huqq, it'll spread, and if its not, it won't (& I believe its on huqq). Our field of work is different.

Remember this quote by Hadrath Imam Shaafi ra,

-courtesy bro amr123.

-chill bro, its a friday today & i still havent' read surah kahf.

Calm down 'peaceful and loving Tablighi' , where is the policy of if someone slaps at one present the second ? I still on weekends go out with Tablighis and i have praised them here as well. I just read your signature and found them logically inconsistent and ironic in the context of the changing tides in Indian Muslim community so i posted it.Earlier you appeared in the thread and tried to make some day dreaming graphic. It never meant that i am against the Tablighi Jamaa't. In the link you have posted , i have admitted that i did not notice the name of the up-loader and mostly i don't. Then your rant about "Ghair muqalids" . Rest assured that to me the likes of you and the Indo-Pak Ghair Muqalids are both equal in your maximums. Both are serving as tumors in the brain of Ummah , honest and consistent tumors and the biggest irony is that both of have deluded yourself into the thought that you are the medicine.

Huway Tum Dost Jiskay ,Dushman uska Aasman keyun ho?

[buchmausar]

Calm down 'peaceful and loving Tablighi' , where is the policy of if someone slaps at one present the second ? I still on weekends go out with Tablighis and i have praised them here as well. I just read your signature and found them logically inconsistent so i posted it. It never meant that i am against the Tablighi Jamaa't. In the link you have posted , i have admitted that i did not notice the name of the up-loader and mostly i don't. Then your rant about "Ghair muqalids" then rest assured that to me the likes of you and the Indo-Pak Ghair Muqalids are both equal in your maximums. Both are serving as tumors in the brain of Ummah , honest and consistent tumors.

Accepted,but your must post seems bit appealing to taqleed & tablighis,& appraising gair muqallids,recently saw a link posted by you of Shaikh Sudais (db) appraising Ahlul Hadith (i highly respect to him & his lectures & may you had provided for sake of information),but it was posted by you in reply to a brother saying gair muqallid are doing propaganda claiming shaikh sudais is ahle hadith,,either you would have presented the clear picture,or would had presented his video visiting deoband appraising them too or either you would have reconciled that which Ahlul hadith shaikh sudais meant in his lecture.And also you said Maulana saad statement seems meaningless,if you would want to have the understanding of his statement,your essence in question would be not like this (his statement is meaningless)..due to this what will one like brother pluto think?

[BalaGire]

Accepted,but your must post seems bit appealing to taqleed & tablighis,& appraising gair muqallids,recently saw a link posted by you of Shaikh Sudais (db) appraising Ahlul Hadith (i highly respect to him & his lectures & may you had provided for sake of information),but it was posted by you in reply to a brother saying gair muqallid are doing propaganda claiming shaikh sudais is ahle hadith,,either you would have presented the clear picture,or would had presented his video visiting deoband appraising them too or either you would have reconciled that which Ahlul hadith shaikh sudais meant in his lecture.And also you said Maulana saad statement seems meaningless,if you would want to have the understanding of his statement,your essence in question would be not like this (his statement is meaningless)..due to this what will one like brother pluto think?

Let me make my stance more graphic for you so that you can easily understand it but before that you have passed a ruling over me of "Ghair Muqalidism" so i need to address that. Would you let me know who has given you this right to classify someone as a Hanbali or Ghair Muqalid? I am sometimes surprised by you and your likes who pass the fatwa of Ghair Muqalidism on anyone who diagres with them. There are many Hanafis here who are much extreme in their stances regarding Tasawwuf,Istighathaa and Mawlied etc. When was the last time you called someone an undercover Barelvi here? Or Barelvis are from the brethren?
Let me tell you why you and that pluto guy pick on Ahli Hadeeths and why they pick on you as well. Its a number game. The Ahli Hadeeth know that the closest group to them are the Deos and they can easily effect them. Convincing a Barelvi is much difficult for them so they pick on you. As a result when they have started effecting the deobandi/Tablighi masses successfully , you have started picking on them. This is the main stimulus for the rant of the "peaceful loving humble" at me here.
As far as my personal stance , i put it this way

1.For me all the laymen Ahli Hadeeths and Deobandis are from Ahli Sunnah Wal Jamaa't.
2.To me all the Madhab basher pure Taqleed rejector Salafis are unacceptable.
3.To me all the extreme Sufish Deobandis are unacceptable.
4.Is the Deobandi version of Taqleed good to me ? No its not. Is the Ahli Hadeeth version of Anti Taqlidism acceptable ? No its not. I think we have to take a middle line in between extreme Muqalidism and extreme Ghair Muqalidism.
5.Tabligh is an Islaahi struggle and it has put some good impacts on the Muslim societies but is it the solution to all the mess we are facing ? Then No. Does it need some reformation so that it can become compatible with the new age scenarios.Then Yes. Are the Tablighis ready to accept that they need some reformation so that their efforts can be more productive? I don't think so.

I can put names of scholars in the three propositions to make it more graphic for you if you want.

[Pheddytrourry]

as long as the ahle hadeeth are following a good ahle hadith scholar

oh the irony

[MpbY5dkR]

oh the irony

yes that is true aswell sadly. they are quite extreme so to say.

[Pheddytrourry]

yes that is true aswell sadly. they are quite extreme so to say.

their whole issue apparently is following other people, although their real issue is who you are following, if its a hanafi/maliki/shafi'i scholar you are wrong, if its an ahle hadith/hanbali scholar, its okay

[MpbY5dkR]

their whole issue apparently is following other people, although their real issue is who you are following, if its a hanafi/maliki/shafi'i scholar you are wrong, if its an ahle hadith/hanbali scholar, its okay

im sure that opinion isnt shared by majority of the ahle hadeeth. they arent evil. lets have some husn e dhann for our brothers

[freeprescriptionplanrrx]

some one tell me where this gape is not widing?