[Kimaamighed]

The matter is not that simple like how it is being described here. How can I work with someone who thinks I am misguided (being maturidi) and how can I work with Pakistani Salafis who believe I'm a Mushrik (being a muqallid deobandi)????

best of the best answer
this is difference between a scholar and ordinary ppl like me

[Stacypettlerr]

The matter is not that simple like how it is being described here. How can I work with someone who thinks I am misguided (being maturidi) and how can I work with Pakistani Salafis who believe I'm a Mushrik (being a muqallid deobandi)????

Bro, if someone believes your a mushrik because your a deobandi then dont cooperate with that individual, but because some salafi in pakistan believes your a mushrik then this means you wont cooperate with salafis in the UK who consider you from the ahlal qiblah and consider you as their brother and wish to be brothers with you and work in what they agree on and not let the issues we disagree on become an issue of fitnah (we can teach teach what we believe is teh truth but without name calling and fighting or involving laymen in debates inshAllah)

reading all these comments sadden me and just make me feel why bother with deobandis I can just stick with salafis/ahlal hadeeth. Im sad that your tarring all teh salafis with the same brush when many of them dont have any problems with you. Especially mercy mission, they always speak good of deobandis.

And no, I didnt breach the agreement by talking about tahir al qadri because the agreement is between deobandis and salafis, barelwis were not included and there is no harm refuting his likes and im sure deobandis and salafis are united upon that fact and should cooperate in refuting his ilk

[Nopayof]

Bro, if someone believes your a mushrik because your a deobandi then dont cooperate with that individual, but because some salafi in pakistan believes your a mushrik then this means you wont cooperate with salafis in the UK who consider you from the ahlal qiblah and consider you as their brother and wish to be brothers with you and work in what they agree on and not let the issues we disagree on become an issue of fitnah (we can teach teach what we believe is teh truth but without name calling and fighting or involving laymen in debates inshAllah)

reading all these comments sadden me and just make me feel why bother with deobandis I can just stick with salafis/ahlal hadeeth. Im sad that your tarring all teh salafis with the same brush when many of them dont have any problems with you. Especially mercy mission, they always speak good of deobandis.

And no, I didnt breach the agreement by talking about tahir al qadri because the agreement is between deobandis and salafis, barelwis were not included and there is no harm refuting his likes and im sure deobandis and salafis are united upon that fact and should cooperate in refuting his ilk

Its not that simple in real brother..Come to Pakistan and u'll realize the fact!!

[Qnnoshxj]

reading all these comments sadden me and just make me feel why bother with deobandis I can just stick with salafis/ahlal hadeeth. Im sad that your tarring all teh salafis with the same brush when many of them dont have any problems with you. Especially mercy mission, they always speak good of deobandis.

Would you say the same to Salafis and Non-Muqallids who call those who follow a madhab bidati/ kafir/ misguided/ deviant etc etc? i.e. If on another forum you found Salafis saying the same about Deobandi, would you go up to them and say 'why bother with Salafis I can just stick with muqallids?'

As for Mercy Mission, I know nothing about them, but the opening post seems to contradict what you are saying here.

[Stacypettlerr]

Its not that simple in real brother..Come to Pakistan and u'll realize the fact!!

why isnt it? Do you accept that there are many saalfis whom respect deobandis and will work together upon mutual respect and love and simply disagree in a few non kufr aspects of islam? If so, why not differentiate between them and the otehr types of salafis who smash everyone? Do you accept that there are many good salafis whom shoudl not be boycotted or slandered? Do you accept that salafis are goign to become more entrenched in their views and have more emnity towards deobandis if everyone takes an us vs them mentality, meaning your own dawah will be less effective? Do you accept that its better to seperate the harsh salafis from the ones who see deobandis as brotehrs and will sit with them and cooperate with them? Rather than painting everyone with the same brush? I have spent a lot of time on this forum, I even adopted hanafi fiqh and go to deobandi masajid and tlaks, but after seeing teh posts on this thread I am considering leaving everyone for good. Is that the effect you want on people? Did the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam repulse people and attack them and was harsh with them? Is your actions in line with the sunnah and the commandments in teh qur'an?

If anyone disagrees with peoples attitudes, please speak up now as this thread has made me seriously reconsider somethings and I am hoping that some people will speak up who dont see things the same way who will give me hope for unity ratehr then me giving up on you guys and just sticking with mercy mission and al maghrib etc?

[Stacypettlerr]

Would you say the same to Salafis and Non-Muqallids who call those who follow a madhab bidati/ kafir/ misguided/ deviant etc etc? i.e. If on another forum you found Salafis saying the same about Deobandi, would you go up to them and say 'why bother with Salafis I can just stick with muqallids?'

As for Mercy Mission, I know nothing about them, but the opening post seems to contradict what you are saying here.

the opening poster presented no evidence whatsoever so please dont base your judgements on what someone said unless he provides evidence from tehir websites and also evemn if they teach things that are in opposition to what deobandis teach, their is no harm in that as long as they dont mention teh naes of scholars and organisations and follow the other clauses in the agreement then there is no problem. They dont expect dar ul ulooms to stop teach maturidi aqeedah either btw. Shaikh yasir qadhi calls asharis, salafis "theological cousins". I can honestly vouch that they tecah tolerance and peace and love for deobandis.

As for your question regarding myself. I can honestly say YES, BY ALLAH, IF A SALAFI IS FOREVER SMASHING DEOBANDIS AND TALKING ABOUT SHAIKH SO AND SO OR AS SUFFA I WOULD SAY MA ASSALAAMA!!! WALLAHI BY ALLAH!!!

so its not only one directional. I spent a year with salafi publications and all they do is attack and refute people and it harmed my iman, I do not want to be around such people. The brothers from mercy mission are beautiful brothers who dont waste their time talking about people, I feel a great sense of spitiuality with them and brotherhood as they busy themselves with learning seerah, hadeeth, doing charity works, trying to call muslims back to practicing their deen. I dont like to be around the type of salafis who are harsh on those they dont agree with. I left them and even wrote a public retraction on this very forum after spending a long time on this forum arguiing with people, thanks to my experiences with mercy mission I changed a lot of my views and decided to work in common good, benefit from each other, encourage each other in righteousness, work in teh important matters like dawah to non muslims, callingmuslims away from brothels and night clubs and getting them to establish the salaah, loving you as my brothers and sisters for the sake of Allah. So the answer to your question is yes, I would leave them, and when the hardcore salafis had issue with me following hanafi fiqh in sheffield I didnt waste my time on them either but thankfully I attend mercy mission events where noone cares about it i make rafa al yadain or not and the instructors are constantly telling everyone not to look at how your brother is praying when you need to worry about yourself and you should stretch your legs out if your brother doesnt want to sit his ankles next to yours. wallahi their message is very tolerant and peaceful and all about love amongst the ummah of muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam so you guys can decide for yourself, I advise you all to be just, but wallahi I will not want to be around people if they are sat their thinking im a deviant and that any efforts I make need to be refuted because I work with some "muqalideen" suposedly. im tired of seeing thread after thread againats places like al maghrib and mercy mission when they never once mention you on their forums:

http://forums.almaghrib.org/


http://forums.alkauthar.org/



Its your brothers and sisters choices but if I keep getting the same signals from you guys then its ma'asalaama from me and Allah will judge between us on the yawmil quiyama which side of the scales these actions of yours will fall on so think for yourself, do threads like these really gain nearness to Allah? Is this really helping you spritually as a person and devloping as a muslim and a member of the ummah of muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam?

[AngelinaLip]

seeing thread after thread againats places like al maghrib and mercy mission

Please provide evidence of this claim.

I am not familiar with Mercy Mission (is this UK only?) but with al-Maghrib, I know how they operate. The reason they do not mention Deobandis specifically is because Deobandis are just another pool for them to show a side of an issue, which is the Hanafi side. During its lectures on fiqh, for example, Al-Maghrib lecturers mention opinions from all scholars across the board and then they say that the evidence for this is stronger than the evidence for that - all based on their limited understanding. What they basically end up implying is that the scholars of a particular madhhab for centuries were too dumb or too blind to see the "stronger" opinion and were too biased for their madhhab to see what the stronger evidence was and that the al-Maghrib lecturers, somehow, are smarter than the combined intellect of the scholars of a madhhab to say which opinion is stronger than the other amongst the madhahib.

I have friends who are fanatics when it comes to al-Maghrib to such an extent that many of them now claim to not follow a madhhab but "follow a shaykh" only. Then, once you ask them why do you still do this according to this madhhab or that madhhab, they contend that they do not have knowledge and yet they are so adamant on saying that they do not follow a madhhab. For example, a friend of mine prays Witr according to the Hanafi way. Al-Maghrib has stated that it is not the strongest opinion of the scholars and the shaykh from al-Maghrib that this brother follows also does not pray this way. I thought he was just playing with words but then he trimmed his beard (note that his beard was halfway to fist length before he trimmed it down to less than half an inch in length). When I asked him why, he said his shaykh allows it. So, he trimmed his beard because his shaykh allows it but he does not pray the same way as his shaykh does? Does this not smack of fatwa shopping? He says he prays the only way he knows how or how he learned to pray and once he learns from al-Maghrib what the "proper" way is, he'll adopt that instead. Bear in mind that al-Maghrib is nowhere near a madrassa, yet many people who attend al-Maghrib programs come out thinking themselves to be knowledgeable to such an extent that they make major changes to the way they have been praying and what they have believed in without setting foot in a madrassa or speaking to non-al-Maghrib scholars.

[CuittisIL]

reading all these comments sadden me and just make me feel why bother with deobandis I can just stick with salafis/ahlal hadeeth. Im sad that your tarring all teh salafis with the same brush when many of them dont have any problems with you. Especially mercy mission, they always speak good of deobandis.

I consider you to be a respectable and intelligent person. Please don't lower the intelligence of other people here by implying whether or not you'll give up learning Deen based on what people say on a forum.

And no, I didnt breach the agreement by talking about tahir al qadri because the agreement is between deobandis and salafis, barelwis were not included and there is no harm refuting his likes and im sure deobandis and salafis are united upon that fact and should cooperate in refuting his ilk

Everyone on that list does not identify themselves with those two categories, like Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf and Shaikh Zaid Shakir, among others.

Maybe you can re-read my previous post and akabirofdeoband's post again so you can level things out.

[Stacypettlerr]

Please provide evidence of this claim.

I am not familiar with Mercy Mission (is this UK only?) but with al-Maghrib, I know how they operate. The reason they do not mention Deobandis specifically is because Deobandis are just another pool for them to show a side of an issue, which is the Hanafi side. During its lectures on fiqh, for example, Al-Maghrib lecturers mention opinions from all scholars across the board and then they say that the evidence for this is stronger than the evidence for that - all based on their limited understanding. What they basically end up implying is that the scholars of a particular madhhab for centuries were too dumb or too blind to see the "stronger" opinion and were too biased for their madhhab to see what the stronger evidence was and that the al-Maghrib lecturers, somehow, are smarter than the combined intellect of the scholars of a madhhab to say which opinion is stronger than the other amongst the madhahib.

I have friends who are fanatics when it comes to al-Maghrib to such an extent that many of them now claim to not follow a madhhab but "follow a shaykh" only. Then, once you ask them why do you still do this according to this madhhab or that madhhab, they contend that they do not have knowledge and yet they are so adamant on saying that they do not follow a madhhab. For example, a friend of mine prays Witr according to the Hanafi way. Al-Maghrib has stated that it is not the strongest opinion of the scholars and the shaykh from al-Maghrib that this brother follows also does not pray this way. I thought he was just playing with words but then he trimmed his beard (note that his beard was halfway to fist length before he trimmed it down to less than half an inch in length). When I asked him why, he said his shaykh allows it. So, he trimmed his beard because his shaykh allows it but he does not pray the same way as his shaykh does? Does this not smack of fatwa shopping? He says he prays the only way he knows how or how he learned to pray and once he learns from al-Maghrib what the "proper" way is, he'll adopt that instead. Bear in mind that al-Maghrib is nowhere near a madrassa, yet many people who attend al-Maghrib programs come out thinking themselves to be knowledgeable to such an extent that they make major changes to the way they have been praying and what they have believed in without setting foot in a madrassa or speaking to non-al-Maghrib scholars.

Bro, you are not seeing the difference between teaching what you consider to be the haqh and attacking fellow muslims. If I go to a deobandi madrassa I will be taught maturidi aqeedah, implying that the salaf were not knowledgable in aqeedah and needed aristotle and plato to come along and "rectify" the "deviations" in teh qur'an. This is using your logic

However, thankfully I dont follow your logic so I dont attack deobandis on that basis and I let them get on with their dawah and benefit from what I find beneficial and NEVER attack them and ALWAYS defend them.

Also, your friends position is correct, a layman makes taqleed of a shaikh, just as most of you do. Few hanafis actually study the hanafi madhab, most just make taqleed of scholars.

Your post showed more of an issue with you that it did with your friend as what is apparent is that your watching your friend to see how he prays and how he grows his beard and now are even talking about it online, when you should concern yourself with yourself and not be so angered at your friend following different oppinions to you. You sound like the deobandi version of a madkhali

[Stacypettlerr]

I consider you to be a respectable and intelligent person. Please don't lower the intelligence of other people here by implying whether or not you'll give up learning Deen based on what people say on a forum.

I cna learn the deen without being around deobandis bro, they arent the only muslims on earth, I never said I will give up the deen, I can easily adopt hanbali fiqh insteda and have plenty of opportunity to study hanbali fiqh and then ill never need to set foot in a deobandi masjid again and believe me I would do it just the same as how I avoid madkhali masjids. Im not interested in the company of people who do spend their days talking about fitnah when wallahi we are all so ignorant we shoudl not be debating issues between sects when we are all laymen. I dont want to be around people who drag me into that when I can be around people who focus on encouragining qiyam al layl, reading qur'an, helping the ummah etc.

[CuittisIL]

I cna learn the deen without being around deobandis bro, they arent the only muslims on earth, I never said I will give up the deen, I can easily adopt hanbali fiqh insteda and have plenty of opportunity to study hanbali fiqh and then ill never need to set foot in a deobandi masjid again and believe me I would do it just the same as how I avoid madkhali masjids. Im not interested in the company of people who do spend their days talking about fitnah when wallahi we are all so ignorant we shoudl not be debating issues between sects when we are all laymen. I dont want to be around people who drag me into that when I can be around people who focus on encouragining qiyam al layl, reading qur'an, helping the ummah etc.

Right, no one is saying that you can't learn from other groups within Ahlus sunnah just like no one here is compelling you to engage in threads you disagree with. You have the Allah given tawfiq to see a thread that you object to and not comment on it at all.

[Nesskissabe]

Brother, Dawud.
Well perhaps you should agree to disagree. You can still back the group of salafi brothers who are not into 'bashing' others. But don't expect everyone to acknowledge your stance. But don't take it to heart. Just continue clarifying the brothers/groups you know that are not into such stuff.
Don't worry bro.

[CuittisIL]

If I go to a deobandi madrassa I will be taught maturidi aqeedah, implying that the salaf were not knowledgable in aqeedah and needed aristotle and plato to come along and "rectify" the "deviations" in teh qur'an. This is using your logic

There's so many problems with that statement but, whatever. Don't wanna derail the topic of the thread.

[ringsarcle]

Brother, Dawud.
Well perhaps you should agree to disagree. You can still back the group of salafi brothers who are not into 'bashing' others. But don't expect everyone to acknowledge your stance. But don't take it to heart. Just continue clarifying the brothers/groups you know that are not into such stuff.
Don't worry bro.

[mod note: lies and foul language removed]

nara e rilsaht - ya rasulullah

[AngelinaLip]

Bro, you are not seeing the difference between teaching what you consider to be the haqh and attacking fellow muslims. If I go to a deobandi madrassa I will be taught maturidi aqeedah, implying that the salaf were not knowledgable in aqeedah and needed aristotle and plato to come along and "rectify" the "deviations" in teh qur'an.

This is a huge lie perpetrated by your fellow Salafis, that Maaturidi aqeedah is different from the aqeedah of the Salaf. It is also a huge accusation. And you are seeking unity?!

However, thankfully I dont follow your logic so I dont attack deobandis on that basis and I let them get on with their dawah and benefit from what I find beneficial and NEVER attack them and ALWAYS defend them. You have revealed yourself that you think that Maaturidi aqeedah is deviant. I never once brought up the issue of aqeedah even though I know what is taught at al-Maghrib regarding it. Aqeedah is something that makes one a Muslim or a non-Muslim. To claim that the aqeedah of the Deobandis is not in sync with the aqeedah of the sahabas is saying that the Deobandis are Ahlul-Bid'ah.

Also, your friends position is correct, a layman makes taqleed of a shaikh, just as most of you do. Few hanafis actually study the hanafi madhab, most just make taqleed of scholars. Most Hanafis make taqleed of the Hanafi madhhab because the scholars they follow represent the Hanafi madhhab to the best of their knowledge. Al-Maghrib instructors do NOT represent any madhhab so they pick and choose. How is my friend's position correct when he is even failing in his taqleed to the shaykh he claims to follow? He does not pray the same way as his shaykh prays (no rafa' yadain, different number of sunnah rakaats, four rakaats before jumu'ah salah, etc.). He says that trimming the beard is okay and that isbal is okay and does both because his shaykh said so. This is an obvious trait of fatwa shopping.

Your post showed more of an issue with you that it did with your friend as what is apparent is that your watching your friend to see how he prays and how he grows his beard and now are even talking about it online, when you should concern yourself with yourself and not be so angered at your friend following different oppinions to you. You sound like the deobandi version of a madkhali From my post, can you identify who my friend is? No? It does not matter if I mention someone who is my friend as an anonymous - for all intents and purposes and for all the information that I have provided, he might as well be al-Maghrib conference attendee number 532982.

We disagree on this and I have brought this issue up with him but I see al-Maghrib has led him down a path of fatwa shopping and destruction. He is not acquainted with classical ulama and gets all his Islamic knowledge from al-Maghrib courses rather than from studying under a scholar. Can one call himself an aalim after going to a bunch of al-Maghrib courses? Al-Maghrib has led to him attacking Tableeghi Jamaat as well, saying that Jamaatis should not talk about fiqh when they don't have knowledge (and I agreed) but then he is saying why Hanafis are wrong in this or that issue and that the correct or the opinion with the "stronger" evidence is this instead of that.

If someone who you knew had a beard on its way to becoming a fist length beard and then a few months down the line, this brother trims his beard and says that his shaykh allows it, would that not raise red flags of fatwa shopping? If someone avoids machine slaughtered food and then you see him eating a Whopper at Burger King saying that his shaykh says that eating the meat of Christians is okay, would that not raise red flags of fatwa shopping? The latter example is not relevant to my friend but it is relevant to others I have met (albeit these were NOT al-Maghrib students, nor Deobandis).

[CuittisIL]

you can back the salafi brothers ,but nobodys gonna back you dirty deobandis your a fitna for this ummah, ahlusunnah wal jamah brailvi zindabaad

nara e rilsaht - ya rasulullah

If you noticed, our brother amr is a muqallid of the great Imam Ash-Shafi'i . He doesn't fit your equation.

Man, whatever happened to respectfully disagreeing? You've changed your stance from asking rhetorical questions to calling names.

[AngelinaLip]

If you noticed, our brother amr is a muqallid of the great Imam Ash-Shafi'i . He doesn't fit your equation.

Man, whatever happened to respectfully disagreeing? You've changed your stance from asking rhetorical questions to calling names.

What can you expect from the brothers of Shi'as? This guy came here under a guise of seeking unity and understanding but he has ended up attacking and cursing. That post will most likely get him banned .

[Lypepuddyu]

you can back the salafi brothers ,but nobodys gonna back you dirty deobandis your a fitna for this ummah, ahlusunnah wal jamah brailvi zindabaad

nara e rilsaht - ya rasulullah

This is what I like about the barelvis, really. You make your opinions known to all.

[CuittisIL]

What can you expect from the brothers of Shi'as? This guy came here under a guise of seeking unity and understanding but he has ended up attacking and cursing. That post will most likely get him banned .

The real colors show after time. Yeah from his recent posts, I was wonderin' when he would make khurooj.

[Nesskissabe]

you can back the salafi brothers ,but nobodys gonna back you dirty deobandis your a fitna for this ummah, ahlusunnah wal jamah brailvi zindabaad

bro.

First of all i m not Deobandi nor Barelevi.

As you can already see, here most of the members are against Salafi 'ideology'. But you don't see them calling words like 'dirty' etc etc. They just say Salafi ideology is wrong. Similarly if you can just maintain your cool it would be very nice. I m not worthy of advising you since i too loose my cool often, but still things would be better around here.