[CreativeAcrobate]

Salam Alaikum,

The brother said the website above is anti-Salafi so we shouldn't rely on it.

lol do you know who the brother is? is the brother an authority of the deen? are you going to take something from a random person on the internet without any proof and base a decision on this?

the majlisul ulama are known and respected by many members on this forum and also by ulama throughout the world.

We should end Ramadan and Celebrate with Saudi Arabia.

why? there is no such criteria in the deen. if there is then please tell me as i do not know about it.

Great scholars of Saudi are involved in this so how can you say it is Haram.

which scholars? which part are you referring to not being haram?

A great Phd scholar, graduate of al-Azhar also said the same thing that it is better to follow Saudi Arabia.

which one? what is his name?

[pkxlugbsbv]

http://haqqrocks.com/s/10/

Sahīh Muslim Book 6
Chapter 5: THERE IS A SIGHTING OF THE MOON FOR EVERY TOWN THE SIGHTING AT ONE TOWN CANNOT BE HELD VALID FOR THE OTHER TOWN SITUATED AT A CONSIDERABLE DISTANCE FROM IT

Kurayb narrates that Umm al-Fadl sent him to Mu‘āwiyah in Sham for something. Kurayb says,
"I went to Sham and finished the job. I was in Sham when the month of Ramadān began and we saw the moon the night of Friday. When I reached Madinah at the end of the blessed month, Ibn ‘Abbas asked me about Sham. (After answering him) He then asked me when we saw the moon.
I said, 'We saw the moon the night of Jumu‘ah.'
He asked, 'Did you see it as well?'
I said, 'Yes, I saw it too and many others saw it and we all kept fasting and so did Mu‘āwiyah (that is according to that moonsighting).'
Ibn ‘Abbas said, 'But we saw the moon on Saturday night, therefore, we will keep fasting for thirty days according to that unless we sight the moon on the 29th.'
I asked, 'You don’t think the moonsighting of Mu‘āwiyah and his fasting is enough for you?'
Ibn ‘Abbas replied, 'No, this is how the Blessed Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) taught us.'"
(Muslim H.1819, Tirmiðī H.629, Nasa'i H.2084, Abū-Dāwūd H.1985, Musnad Ahmad H.2653 Dar-qutni H.2234)
This hadith is clear evidence. When Ibn ‘Abbas was informed by the person who himself sighted the moon that the people of Sham had begun Ramadān one day before, he responded that it was not only his opinion, but also the teachings of the Blessed Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) that the moonsighting of another locality was not compulsory upon them.

Shaykh ‘Uthaymīn has issued a very clear fatwa to Muslims in the Americas and other lands outside the Arabian Peninsula with no ambiguity whatsoever regarding this matter:

It is well known amongst astronomers that the time the moon rises differs from place to place. The moon might be seen in one place and not in another. Therefore, according to the verse, whoever does not see it is not obliged to fast. . . . If, therefore, each place has its own ruling due to the variation in the time that the sun rises and sets, the same also applies due to the variation in the time that the moon rises and sets. . . .
Therefore, the answer to the question is clear. It is obligatory for you to follow the sighting of the new moon in the place where you are.
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymīn
al-Aqalliyāt al-Muslimah - Page 84, Fatwa No.23

[VodsNittats]

I have heard from lay people, and from scholars who have lived in Saudi Arabia that the dates of religious occasions (fasting, eid, hajj) are determined by sighting of the moon. The confusion is created by two factors - actually three. The first being the Muslim Conspiracy Rumor Machine (tm). I have heard religious persons go so far as to say Israel dictates when the moon sightings are, lol. Anywhoo, the other two reasons are:

i) There really is a published lunar calendar. It is used for planning and administrative purposes only. The date of religious occasions are determined independently by sighting of the moon. The mere presence of a published lunar calendar, coupled with distrust of the saudis, results in one attributing their erroneous moon sightings to a pre-calculated calendar.

ii) The opinion in sighting which saudi scholars follow has a different criterion of sighting. For them, the testimony of any righteous person (or is it two people? I forget) with regards to the moon is sufficient - regardless if it is completely against astronomical facts, and the sky is clear. The moon could be below the horizon for all they care, but if a thiqa person testifies, it is sufficient in their fiqh.

So yeah, their moon sighting is erroneous, it sucks, blah blah - but is not the result of following calculations. There are enough reasons based on facts to NOT follow their moon sighting announcements. So why resort to using rumors, conspiracies, and assumptions. ... And you know what they say about the one who assumes .... so why put oneself in that situation when there is no need to?

[Twendypreency]

does any1 here know how many hours the moon will be in saudi arabia on the 29th night of ramathaan? coz i heard its not more than eight hours... and if this is true than its basically impossible to sight with the naked eye, as the prophet salallahu-alaihiwsalam taught us to.

[Twendypreency]

please visit this website, its a must see...

http://www.islamicmoon.com

[Lxbsvksl]

Here we go again stop arguing over this every year, make dua it is resolved in our life time Insha'Allah.

[Twendypreency]

sum1 just sent me this email now...


THE MOON – ASTRONOMICAL
CALCULATIONS AND THE MJC’S
BASELESS VIEW

Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) commanded:

“Fast at its (the moon’s) sighting and terminate (Ramadhaan) at its sighting. If it is
overcast, then complete the number (of days of Sha’baan) thirty.”
“We are an Ummi Ummah. We neither write nor calculate. The month is so much
and so much and so much….” With his blessed fingers, Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi
wasallam) indicated that the month has either 29 or 30 days).
Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) had fixed the principle for determining the
Islamic months to be Ruyah Hilaal (i.e. the physical sighting of the crescent moon).
The second Hadith above, as well as the Ijma’ of the entire Ummah since the age of the
Sahaabah, refute the principle of the ‘birth of the moon’ or any method of astronomy
for the determination of the Islamic months. It is precisely for negating all sophisticated
and scientific methods which are inaccessible to the vast majority of the masses of the
Ummah that Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) emphasized that “We are an Ummi
(unlettered, simple) Ummah” . In other words, we are simple people who determine the
months by the simple method of physical observation of the natural phenomenon of the
moon’s visibility to the naked eye. All and sundry have access to this simple method.
This Hadith and the Ijma’ of the Ummah refute the use of astronomical calculations for
determining the Islamic months.
In negation of this Shar’i method ordered by Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam),
the miscreant, deviated, body called MJC who recently proffered Islamic burial rites to
an avowed murtad, thereby themselves becoming murtad, states in its latest circular:
“According to astronomical predictions the moon will not be visible to the naked eye
not even with optical instruments. This means that we shall be fasting 30 days this year.
Eidul Fitr will therefore be celebrated on WEDNESDAY 31st AUGUST 2011.”
In making this announcement, the MJC has rejected the Shariah’s principle of Ruyah
and basis its decision purely on astronomical calculations made by fussaaq, fujjaar
and kuffaar. In fact, even if the astronomical calculations are made by pious person,
then too, this method is unacceptable to the Shariah for determining the termination
of Ramadhaan or for any other Islamic month notwithstanding the correctness of
the determination or prediction. Refutation of astronomical calculations is not to be
construed as rejection of the accuracy and correction of such calculations. Refutation
in this context applies to rejection of the new principle of ‘birth of the moon’ or non-

2

visibility based on calculations. Since this method negates the Shar’i principle of
Ruyah, it is a haraam bid’ah, hence refuted.
It is haraam to abandon a method commanded by the Shariah and which has been the
accepted method of the Ummah since the days of the Sahaabah. It is haraam to displace
the Islamic method and substitute it with a method which has absolutely no validity in
the Shariah. The method of Ruyah (physical sighting) is Waajib. It is never permissible
to abandon this method regardless of the visibility or non-visibility predicted by the
astronomers and scientists. Irrespective of the prediction of non-visibility and regardless
of the time of the birth of the moon, it is Waajib for Muslims to search for the hilaal at
the end of the 29th day of the Islamic month. Even if the birth of the moon is just one
hour, it remains a Shar’i injunction to search for the hilaal at the end of the 29th day,
and to hell with the prediction of the astronomers, and to hell with the MJC’s haraam,
stupid announcement.
It is not permissible to abandon the 14 century method of searching for the moon on
the basis of what the astronomers wallowing in kufr and janaabat say.
If according to astronomical calculations there is absolutely not the slightest
possibility of sighting the hilaal, but Aadil (pious) Muslims testify to having seen the
hilaal, their testimony will be incumbently accepted and Ramadhaan or whatever the
occasion may be will be declared. If Allah Ta’ala wills people to sight the hilaal at a
time when according to astronomy sighting is impossible, there is nothing to thwart
Him. The testimony of Aadil witnesses overrides the calculations of the astronomers
and the scientists.
In view of the divine principle which regulates the commencement and termination
of the Islamic months, it is haraam for any person to announce with certitude that
Ramadhaan will definitely end on a certain day. This will be known only after the
ending of the 29th day.

THE MJC’S UN-ISLAMIC, HARAAM ANNOUNCEMENT IS
REJECTED. THE MJC HAS BECOME A WAYWARD BODY
PROMOTING KUFR. UNDERMINING THE SHARIAH APPEARS TO
BE ITS OBJECTIVE. THE MJC NO LONGER HAS ANY ISLAMIC
CREDIBILITY. HALAALIZATION OF CARRION, KUFR AND BAATIL
ARE THE OCCUPATIONS OF THE MISCREANT CONGLOMERATION
OF ULAMA-E-SOO’ (EVIL ULAMA) WHO HAVE SURPASSED THE
ULAMA-E-SOO’ OF BANI ISRAAEEL IN THEIR VILLAINY OF BAATIL,
DHALAAL AND KUFR.

Muslims are incumbently required to search for the moon at the end of the 29th
day of Ramadhaan. It is not permissible to abandon this Waajib obligation which
devolves on the community collectively.

The issue of the hilaal and astronomical calculations have been explained
in detail in the light of the Shariah in the book, ROOYAT-E-HILAAL AND
ASTRONOMICAL CALCULATIONS. This book is available. Write to: The Majlis,
P.O. Box 3393, Port Elizabeth 6056 2 / 2

[ArrichMer]

The Majlis jumped the gun again,,, that was a false e-mail attributed to the MJC that was circulated in the name of the Crescent Observers Society. The Majlis seems to be happy with just accepting any correspondence sent to them as long as it something which highlights the error of its foes. This was clearly seen from the incident with the advocate in Durban.

visit www.mjc.org.za to see the official statement from the MJC.

http://www.vocfm.co.za/index.php?opt...eid&Itemid=131

The Majlis should take heed of the following verse of the holy Quraan

“O you who believe! If a transgressor brings you news, verify it lest you harm a people in ignorance. You will then be regretful about what you did.”
(Surah al-Hujaraat, verse 6)

[Twendypreency]

The Majlis jumped the gun again,,, that was a false e-mail attributed to the MJC that was circulated in the name of the Crescent Observers Society. The Majlis seems to be happy with just accepting any correspondence sent to them as long as it something which highlights the error of its foes. This was clearly seen from the incident with the advocate in Durban.

visit www.mjc.org.za to see the official statement from the MJC.

http://www.vocfm.co.za/index.php?opt...eid&Itemid=131

The Majlis should take heed of the following verse of the holy Quraan

“O you who believe! If a transgressor brings you news, verify it lest you harm a people in ignorance. You will then be regretful about what you did.”
(Surah al-Hujaraat, verse 6)

brother if you have a difference of opinion regarding the ulama - and especially the ulama-e-haq please deal with it respectfully. anyway did you first verify that this article is in fact circulated by the majlis before you criticized ml desai? if not, then you should'nt be talking, because if you can't first verify info b4 talking and criticizing, how do you expect ml desai, who has thousands of correspondences to attend to from throughout the world, writes numerous books and pamphlets and runs millions of maktabs around the globe to start checking first and making 100% sure that the pamphlet is by mjc and not by sum1 using mjc's name etc.

[ArrichMer]

brother if you have a difference of opinion regarding the ulama - and especially the ulama-e-haq please deal with it respectfully. anyway did you first verify that this article is in fact circulated by the majlis before you criticized ml desai? if not, then you should'nt be talking, because if you can't first verify info b4 talking and criticizing, how do you expect ml desai, who has thousands of correspondences to attend to from throughout the world, writes numerous books and pamphlets and runs millions of maktabs around the globe to start checking first and making 100% sure that the pamphlet is by mjc and not by sum1 using mjc's name etc.

Just to clarify , The info below proves that i did verify that this was in fact from The Majlis



From: lists@themajlis.co.za [mailto:lists@themajlis.co.za]Sent: 26 August 2011 04:44 PM
To: Subject: The Moon-Astronomical Calculations & The MJC's Baseless Views

Click Here To View This & Other Articles Online

25 Ramadhaan 1432 - 25 August 2011

THE MOON – ASTRONOMICAL CALCULATIONS AND THE MJC’S BASELESS VIEW

Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) commanded:

“Fast at its (the moon’s) sighting and terminate (Ramadhaan) at its sighting. If it is overcast, then complete the number (of days of
Sha’baan) thirty.”

“We are an Ummi Ummah. We neither write nor calculate. The month is so much and so much and so much….” With his blessed fingers, Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) indicated that the month has either 29 or 30 days).

Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) had fixed the principle for determining the Islamic months to be Ruyah Hilaal (i.e. the physical sighting of the crescent moon). The second Hadith above, as well as the Ijma’ of the entire Ummah since the age of the Sahaabah, refute the principle of the ‘birth of the moon’ or any method of astronomy for the determination of the Islamic months. It is precisely for negating all sophisticated and scientific methods which are inaccessible to the vast majority of the masses of the Ummah that Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) emphasized that “We are an Ummi (unlettered, simple) Ummah” . In other words, we are simple people who determine the months by the simple method of physical observation of the natural phenomenon of the moon’s visibility to the naked eye. All and sundry have access to this simple method. This Hadith and the Ijma’ of the Ummah refute the use of astronomical calculations for determining the Islamic months.

In negation of this Shar’i method ordered by Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), the miscreant, deviated, body called MJC who recently proffered Islamic burial rites to an avowed murtad, thereby themselves becoming murtad, states in its latest circular:

“According to astronomical predictions the moon will not be visible to the naked eye not even with optical instruments. This means that we shall be fasting 30 days this year. Eidul Fitr will therefore be celebrated on WEDNESDAY 31st AUGUST 2011.”

In making this announcement, the MJC has rejected the Shariah’s principle of Ruyah and basis its decision purely on astronomical calculations made by fussaaq, fujjaar and kuffaar. In fact, even if the astronomical calculations are made by pious person, then too, this method is unacceptable to the Shariah for determining the termination of Ramadhaan or for any other Islamic month notwithstanding the correctness of the determination or prediction. Refutation of astronomical calculations is not to be construed as rejection of the accuracy and correction of such calculations. Refutation in this context applies to rejection of the new principle of ‘birth of the moon’ or non-visibility based on calculations. Since this method negates the Shar’i principle of Ruyah, it is a haraam bid’ah, hence refuted.

It is haraam to abandon a method commanded by the Shariah and which has been the accepted method of the Ummah since the days of the Sahaabah. It is haraam to displace the Islamic method and substitute it with a method which has absolutely no validity in the Shariah. The method of Ruyah (physical sighting) is Waajib. It is never permissible to abandon this method regardless of the visibility or non-visibility predicted by the astronomers and scientists. Irrespective of the prediction of non-visibility and regardless of the time of the birth of the moon, it is Waajib for Muslims to search for the hilaal at the end of the 29th day of the Islamic month. Even if the birth of the moon is just one hour, it remains a Shar’i injunction to search for the hilaal at the end of the 29th day, and to hell with the prediction of the astronomers, and to hell with the MJC’s haraam, stupid announcement.

It is not permissible to abandon the 14 century method of searching for the moon on the basis of what the astronomers wallowing in kufr and janaabat say.

If according to astronomical calculations there is absolutely not the slightest possibility of sighting the hilaal, but Aadil (pious) Muslims testify to having seen the hilaal, their testimony will be incumbently accepted and Ramadhaan or whatever the occasion may be will be declared. If Allah Ta’ala wills people to sight the hilaal at a time when according to astronomy sighting is impossible, there is nothing to thwart Him. The testimony of Aadil witnesses overrides the calculations of the astronomers and the scientists.

In view of the divine principle which regulates the commencement and termination of the Islamic months, it is haraam for any person to announce with certitude that Ramadhaan will definitely end on a certain day. This will be known only after the ending of the 29th day.

THE MJC’S UN-ISLAMIC, HARAAM ANNOUNCEMENT IS REJECTED. THE MJC HAS BECOME A WAYWARD BODY PROMOTING KUFR. UNDERMINING THE SHARIAH APPEARS TO BE ITS OBJECTIVE. THE MJC NO LONGER HAS ANY ISLAMIC CREDIBILITY.
HALAALIZATION OF CARRION, KUFR AND BAATIL ARE THE OCCUPATIONS OF THE MISCREANT CONGLOMERATION OF ULAMA-E-SOO’ (EVIL ULAMA) WHO HAVE SURPASSED THE ULAMA-E-SOO’ OF BANI ISRAAEEL IN THEIR VILLAINY OF BAATIL, DHALAAL AND KUFR.

Muslims are incumbently required to search for the moon at the end of the 29th day of Ramadhaan. It is not permissible to abandon this Waajib obligation which devolves on the community collectively.

The issue of the hilaal and astronomical calculations have been explained in detail in the light of the Shariah in the book, ROOYAT-E-HILAAL AND ASTRONOMICAL CALCULATIONS. This book is available.
Write to: The Majlis, P.O. Box 3393, Port Elizabeth 6056

[Twendypreency]

I wont indulge you further

Just to clarify , The info below proves that i did verify that this was in fact from The Majlis

okay. lol! well its fantastic that you verify your info first.

[ArrichMer]

okay. lol! well its fantastic that you verify your info first.

Actually i just edited that first sentence out. That was uncalled for. Please forgive me Ukhti

[Twendypreency]

even better.

[GeorgeEckland]

Saudi Arabia's Supreme Court has called on Muslims in the Kingdom to look for the new moon of Shawwal on the evening of Monday, which is the 29th day of Ramadan (Aug. 29) and report the matter to the nearest court if any one sights the new moon either by the naked eye or with help of lenses.

The court directed that the lookers for moon join the committee for the purpose in each region.

The end of fasting and the day of Eid Al-Fitr are decided by the sighting of the Shawwal moon.


===============


Riyadh, July 27. -- The Supreme Court of Saudi Arabia has called on all Muslims in the Kingdom to sight the crescent of the lunar month of Ramadan on Saturday evening, July 30, 2011.

In a statement issued today, the Court called upon whoever sees the crescent of the blessed month of Ramadan with the naked eye or through a bioculars to report to the nearest court and register his testimony, or report to the concerned authorities.

[saumemeva]

Saudi Arabia's Supreme Court has called on Muslims in the Kingdom to look for the new moon of Shawwal on the evening of Monday, which is the 29th day of Ramadan (Aug. 29) and report the matter to the nearest court if any one sights the new moon either by the naked eye or with help of lenses.

The court directed that the lookers for moon join the committee for the purpose in each region.

The end of fasting and the day of Eid Al-Fitr are decided by the sighting of the Shawwal moon.


===============


Riyadh, July 27. -- The Supreme Court of Saudi Arabia has called on all Muslims in the Kingdom to sight the crescent of the lunar month of Ramadan on Saturday evening, July 30, 2011.

In a statement issued today, the Court called upon whoever sees the crescent of the blessed month of Ramadan with the naked eye or through a bioculars to report to the nearest court and register his testimony, or report to the concerned authorities.

Do they use sighting for every month or only the ones directly pertaining to religious occasions (i.e. Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhul Hijjah)?

[Elelaytet]

aoa,

i learnt recently from residents of saudi arabia these two things:

- the calendar does exist but it is used for determining working days.
- the calendar is abrogated by authentic moon sightings.

the OP missed point number two. there is no problem with the saudi 'calendar'. Allahualam

[paratayoma]

Apparently Saudi officials thought Saturn is the New moon. SEE http://masudblog.com/?p=1251

Can't go wrong with local or international moon sighting based on visibility charts.