[fedelwet]

I said you're ignorant because I know for a fact that Islam does not require women to hide their faces. Everything but the face, hands & feet should be covered. When we go to Hajj or Umraah we're not supposed to cover our faces. Get the facts straight.

No, you don't know for a 'fact' that niqaab is not waajib; you just think you know. These are two different things.

He is not ignorant for believing that niqaab is waajib. The great companion of the Messenger , Ibn Abbas believed niqaab to be waajib for example; would you dare call him ignorant? Does he know more or do you? Please search for this topic and look at the evidences presented.

The ruling of Hajj and Umrah is different. This is explained in all of our books, from centuries ago. You should probably study some of them

[CreativeAcrobate]

Because you have no first-hand experience of Islam in America, what the American mentality/culture is or what it's like being a Muslim in America. It's completely different over here from the Middle East. Things are not the same over here as in the M.E.

ok never mind.

i was wondering what that has to do with the discussion at hand.

still wondering.

[w3QHxwNb]

Wow, you're totally taking my comments out of context & twisting them around for your own purposes. No, America is not perfect. There are good & bad things that happen in every country. Rape & sexual abuse occurs in Muslim countries too....to women who wear hijabs & niqabs. Sexual assault is not about sex....it's about the power that humans are trying to wield over other human beings. I know a Palestinian Muslim woman who was raped by her own brother after their father passed away. How disgusting is that?

We don't attack other countries and rape young girls.

What are your sources of Islam?

Do you accept only Quran or you will accept Hadith also?

Respected Aunty,

please answer this.

[PetrZimin]

No, you don't know for a 'fact' that niqaab is not waajib; you just think you know. These are two different things.

He is not ignorant for believing that niqaab is waajib. The great companion of the Messenger , Ibn Abbas believed niqaab to be waajib for example; would you dare call him ignorant? Does he know more or do you? Please search for this topic and look at the evidences presented.

The ruling of Hajj and Umrah is different. This is explained in all of our books, from centuries ago. You should probably study some of them

I looked up Waajib. I was not born & raised in an Arabic speaking country so please use English. I have read the Qur'an...I have never read that niqab is fard. I understand that hijab is fard. Please tell me the hadith or surah where it states that niqab is fard. I am not just going to believe someone because they tell me so. I need to see it in print. When I was a Christian...I was told to just believe in things that I didn't understand without any proof. The reason I was attracted to Islam is because I was always encouraged to investigate & research the answers & to not depend on what another human being says. I converted because it was the most rational & logical religion to me. However, I do not agree with the "interpretation" of Islam from certain Muslims. Just like the Bible was changed many times by humans, the hadith was created by mankind so I only accept the Qur'an.

[PetrZimin]

We don't attack other countries and rape young girls.



Not changing the subject.

How do you know this:






Respected Aunty,

please answer this.

Girls and women are raped and sexually assaulted in EVERY country in the world. Research the statistics for your country. This is a world-wide problem. People who don't believe this are just in denial.

[w3QHxwNb]

Respected Aunty,

Please answer this:

What are your sources of Islam?

Do you accept only Quran or you will accept Hadith also?

[PetrZimin]

I already answered your question when replying to Ahmad12: Please tell me the hadith or surah where it states that niqab is fard. I am not just going to believe someone because they tell me so. I need to see it in print. When I was a Christian...I was told to just believe in things that I didn't understand without any proof. The reason I was attracted to Islam is because I was always encouraged to investigate & research the answers & to not depend on what another human being says. I converted because it was the most rational & logical religion to me. However, I do not agree with the "interpretation" of Islam from certain Muslims. Just like the Bible was changed many times by humans, the hadith was created by mankind so I only accept the Qur'an.

[w3QHxwNb]

I already answered your question when replying to Ahmad12: Please tell me the hadith or surah where it states that niqab is fard. I am not just going to believe someone because they tell me so. I need to see it in print. When I was a Christian...I was told to just believe in things that I didn't understand without any proof. The reason I was attracted to Islam is because I was always encouraged to investigate & research the answers & to not depend on what another human being says. I converted because it was the most rational & logical religion to me. However, I do not agree with the "interpretation" of Islam from certain Muslims. Just like the Bible was changed many times by humans, the hadith was created by mankind so I only accept the Qur'an.

Let's start with the Ayat from Quran.


{ ياأَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلاَبِيبِهِنَّ ذالِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلاَ يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً } الأحزاب:59

“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks (from their heads over their faces). That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful"

[CreativeAcrobate]

the hadith was created by mankind so I only accept the Qur'an.

can you confirm please...

you do not accept hadith?

[PetrZimin]

Girls and women are raped and sexually assaulted in EVERY country in the world. Research the statistics for your country. This is a world-wide problem. People who don't believe this are just in denial.

Let's get back to the real topic of the post. I think it was not a very smart move for the Muslim American Society of New York to plan on going to an amusement park for Eid al-Fitr where they knew in advance & were told several times that there was a ban on head gear of every kind. There are amusement parks in the U.S. that don't ban hijabs or head gear. I saw the pics of some of the women at the amusement park & I can see why the park didn't allow them to get on the rides. If they were wearing a one-piece tighter hijab that would be safer....but the very long flowings hijabs these ladies were wearing could pose a very serious safety issue.

Here's a tragic story of a Muslim sister wearing hijab that was with her family at an amusement park & died because her hijab strangled her when she was on the go-karts: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/family-see...0408-rvci.html

I also think the police used excessive force and it was a situation of police brutality. Really? 100 cops had to come? That's crazy. Maybe it would be a good idea for the MSA of NY to file a lawsuit against the police departments involved. Maybe it wasn't a good idea for the people to be verbally fighting about the situation but it didn't give the police any right to put their hands on the woman & push her to the ground. Of course, the male relatives had every right to try to help their female relative and come to her defense.

[w3QHxwNb]

You didn't read what i just posted from Quran?

[CreativeAcrobate]

Let's get back to the real topic of the post. I think it was not a very smart move for the Muslim American Society of New York to plan on going to an amusement park for Eid al-Fitr where they knew in advance & were told several times that there was a ban on head gear of every kind. There are amusement parks in the U.S. that don't ban hijabs or head gear. I saw the pics of some of the women at the amusement park & I can see why the park didn't allow them to get on the rides. If they were wearing a one-piece tighter hijab that would be safer....but the very long flowings hijabs these ladies were wearing could pose a very serious safety issue.

Here's a tragic story of a Muslim sister wearing hijab that was with her family at an amusement park & died because her hijab strangled her when she was on the go-karts: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/family-see...0408-rvci.html

I also think the police used excessive force and it was a situation of police brutality. Really? 100 cops had to come? That's crazy. Maybe it would be a good idea for the MSA of NY to file a lawsuit against the police departments involved. Maybe it wasn't a good idea for the people to be verbally fighting about the situation but it didn't give the police any right to put their hands on the woman & push her to the ground. Of course, the male relatives had every right to try to help their female relative and come to her defense.

dont forget the proofs you requested from shaikh taliban. they are on the previous page.

[PetrZimin]

Let's start with the Ayat from Quran.


{ ياأَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلاَبِيبِهِنَّ ذالِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلاَ يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً } الأحزاب:59

“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks (from their heads over their faces). That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful"

I want to learn Arabic someday but I have not had the luxury of time or money to learn it as of yet. Therefore, please tell me which Chapter in the Qur'an this is located? I looked up Chapter 59 - AL-HASHR and read all the ayats in that chapter but cannot find it. Please be more specific where I can find this. What is the name of the Chapter in the Qur'an?

[fedelwet]

I looked up Waajib. I was not born & raised in an Arabic speaking country so please use English.

I will strive to do so in the future. I used the word waajib because it is commonly understood even by non arabic speaking Muslims, such as myself.

I have read the Qur'an...I have never read that niqab is fard.

No, you haven't read the Quran, you've read a translation. Massive difference. Massive. Just thought I'd point that out because it is neccessary that you understand this, if not for the purpose of the current discussion but at least it will help you later down the line.

Second point; just because you've never come across a verse or hadith saying niqaab is fard, doesn't mean there isn't one or that you just didn't misunderstand (as stated previously, you do not understand arabic and translations are of no use when it comes to deriving rulings

I understand that hijab is fard. Please tell me the hadith or surah where it states that niqab is fard.

I already told you to search the forum as this has been discussed many times and verses and ahadith have been mentioned on those threads.

I am not just going to believe someone because they tell me so. I need to see it in print.

Cool, I'm not asking you to believe what I say just because I said it. I asked you to search the forums and your answer will be there

When I was a Christian...I was told to just believe in things that I didn't understand without any proof. The reason I was attracted to Islam is because I was always encouraged to investigate & research the answers & to not depend on what another human being says. I converted because it was the most rational & logical religion to me.

It indeed is the most rational and logical religion. Btw, you will have come across a verse in the Quran where it tells you to ask those who know if you do not know (roughly paraphrasing here). Hence, even the Quran directs you to ask certain human beings certain things. But thats another discussion

However, I do not agree with the "interpretation" of Islam from certain Muslims. Just like the Bible was changed many times by humans, the hadith was created by mankind so I only accept the Qur'an.

Either you do not know how exactly the Bible was changed or you do not know how hadith have been preserved or both. The hadith were not created by mankind, they were preserved in similar ways to the way the Quran was preserved. This is a huge topic and I advise you to enquire about it, perhaps open another thread here or read some literature regarding it?

[w3QHxwNb]

Respected Aunty,

I'm very sorry I didn't post the Surah no. It is 33, Ayat no 59.

Most respectfully I want to ask you one Question:

When you don't know arabic, you haven't memorized the Quran, then why did you make such an outrageous claim?

No where in the Qur'an does it states that it is a requirement in Islam for a woman to cover her face.

[fedelwet]

For a list of verses and ahadith regarding the obligation of niqaab, along with the opinions of the companions of the Messenger , who all knew more than you or I do regarding this and every other religious issue, please see post 24 here:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-madhhab/page5

[PaulCameron]

This debate is strange indeed, it's also off topic if you notice.

Salam,

[dyestymum]

Though our scholars have mentioned the niqaab being wajib due to fitna being prevalent in recent times.
I feel it is important to mention that they also say a woman is not sinful if she doesn't wear niqaab.

And Allah knows best.

[xqdrocherz]

funny how british theme parks never have flying hijabs

Exactly yeah plus i am sure these Nuns who were habits visit amusement parks on their leisurely outings strange how they dont violate Health and safety.

[hernkingAnank]

This debate is strange indeed, it's also off topic if you notice.

Salam,

Asalamu alaikum,

Yes, I agree. It has really escalated into a niqab debate. My take on the whole thing (may be a bit biased because I'm not into amusement parks in the first place)
1. They should have observed the policy of no headgear and moved on to another ride, if they so needed to ride those 'vomit-inducers'
2. They should have respectfully obeyed the rules (even if they thought that they were being 'opressed'- since their freedom to practise their religion was not being compromised....just the freedom to ride a time wasting, useless ride) and courteously left that queue instead of making a scene and embarrassing themselves in front of so many non-muslims. They just opened up a scenario for all those nasty islamaphobic comments
3. The clash between the family and police that ensued was really a sad case- it makes us all look so 'stupid' and 'backward'....sad.