[9V4i8xw1]

@TripolySunni

Thank you for providing me direct sources. However, if that is all the evidence that the opinion of placing the Quran on the floor has then I find it lacking. My carpeted floors at home and the carpeted floors of my masjid are not dirty and if I am more comfortable reading it with the Quran on the floor then I will continue doing so until someone gives me evidence to the contrary.

[Cabinanteerip]

@TripolySunni

Thank you for providing me direct sources. However, if that is all the evidence that the opinion of placing the Quran on the floor has then I find it lacking. My carpeted floors at home and the carpeted floors of my masjid are not dirty and if I am more comfortable reading it with the Quran on the floor then I will continue doing so until someone gives me evidence to the contrary.

I am telling you to place it on a shelf to be safer, what if a person steps on it by mistake? or if you stepped in something nasty without noticing it then dirtied your carpets at home? I am sure you wouldn't prefer to place it there.

Some people hold the Quran in their hands while they pray, when they make soujoud it touches the floor, there is no problem I guess if the floor is clean and pure.

[Muramoursuard]

@TripolySunni

Thank you for providing me direct sources. However, if that is all the evidence that the opinion of placing the Quran on the floor has then I find it lacking. My carpeted floors at home and the carpeted floors of my masjid are not dirty and if I am more comfortable reading it with the Quran on the floor then I will continue doing so until someone gives me evidence to the contrary.

Jazak Allah for clarifying your intentions.. Please go ahead and do as you deem fit.

Respect for deen and its salient features is to be learned from its guardians. If you find it sufficient that you can concoct your own form of respect, then please go ahead. But do not think that our forum will afford you a platform to promote such things.

[onlyfun_biziness]

I am telling you to place it on a shelf to be safer, what if a person steps on it by mistake?

using his logic, his feet are clean so it probably doesnt matter to him if he steps on it

[Cabinanteerip]

using his logic, his feet are clean so it probably doesnt matter to him if he steps on it

It's a matter of Taqwa I think, knowing that these are the words of Allah...

[hansen384cbh]

using his logic, his feet are clean so it probably doesnt matter to him if he steps on it

I hope i won't come across someone who asks for proof that it is wrong to step on...
I think i ve seen enough for the day.

everyone.

[Muramoursuard]

5062 - أَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، أَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، ثنا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، ثنا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَيُّوبَ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ قَالَ: كَانَ عِكْرِمَةُ بْنُ أَبِي جَهْلٍ يَأْخُذُ الْمُصْحَفَ فَيَضَعُهُ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ وَيَبْكِي وَيَقُولُ: «كَلَامُ رَبِّي كِتَابُ رَبِّي»
[التعليق - من تلخيص الذهبي] 5062 - مرسل
[المستدرك على الصحيحين للحاكم 3/ 271]

[onlyfun_biziness]

i dont understand why people persist on doing things that they know aggitate the hearts of some other muslims, it probably even messes up their intentions when they go to the masjid and persist on putting the quran on the floor though they know this will upset some people

its not against their beleifs to keep it off the floor but they persist on putting it on the floor just to cause controversy, why would you damage your act of ibadah by such small things?

[XinordiX]

I haven't read all posts, except first few. Sorry if this is mentioned, but here is reference from Qur'an: http://tanzil.net/#22:32

"That [is so]. And whoever honors the symbols of Allah - indeed, it is from the piety of hearts."

[9V4i8xw1]

@davidovitch: Thank you. This is the type of thing I was looking for. I don’t understand why everyone got upset that I started asking for evidence. Now if someone could please give me the ayah and verse of Quran that is and the book and number of Hadith that is it would be much appreciated.

@abuhajira: How dare you belittle me for asking for evidence. Why would I blindly follow things such as this? Something like this almost certainly came up during the time of the Prophet(pbuh), the sahaba, or the tabieen. And if problems were found it would have been written about in hadith. You should be discouraging people from classifying things such as this as being haram or even disliked without providing evidence, not me for asking for evidence to better follow the sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh) and his companions.(and yes I see the tag of scholar, which is the only reason I decided to reply back to your snide remark and didn’t ignore it like the others.)

Since when did it become haram to ask for evidence? If it is not prohibited to do something and it only upsets a feeling in you then I ask you to remember that our religion is not a religion of feeling. I do not promote ignorance in the religion. Most people think that this is haram to do because it is so engrained in Muslim society. Thanks to davidovitch I can now have some type of evidence that this is at least disliked.

@abulayl: Yes, that is why I said almost. However very few circumstances, outside of new technology and new things they had no concept of, did not come up during their time which is why we should always try to look back at what they did.

Also, I would like to warn my Muslim brothers and sisters on this forum to remember that everyone you come into contact to on this forum is a Muslim(including me). I say this because some of the posts in this thread are bordering backbiting/slander/malicious gossip.

[XinordiX]

وَمَن يُعَظِّمْ شَعَائِرَ اللَّـهِ فَإِنَّهَا مِن تَقْوَى الْقُلُوبِ

"And whoever honors the symbols of Allah - indeed, it is from the piety of hearts."
Since Mushaf - containing the written form of Qur'an in it, is a symbol of Allah; it is from one's taqwa to honor the Mushaf by:

1. Reading It profusely
2. Purifying our nafs with It
3. Healing our spiritual wounds with It
4. Increasing our love for Allah and his messengers through It
5. Applying It to our lives
6. Shaping and molding our character and behavior with It

as well as,

1. Kissing it
2. Holding it above the navel
3. Keeping it in a safe and clean place
4. Avoiding laying down while there is Mushaf in the room
5. Not stretching your legs towards the Mushaf
6. Applying beautiful perfumes on it
7. etc..

are all can be considered as a deep respect and honoring the Mushaf. Eventually the matter boils down to one's understanding of "respect and/or honoring something".

Here is a thought provoking true story:

Osman Ghazi had a dream before establishing the Ottoman Dynasty. The story is as follows. When he was the chief of a small Beylik (State), Osman Bey spent a night at Sheik Edebali’s place. Late at night, he went to his room to rest. While he was getting ready to sleep, he saw the Quran, and as a result of his high respect of Quran (he deemed it disrespectful laying down in the presence of Qur'an that was hanged on the wall), he started to read it, instead of going to sleep. He read for 6 hours. Before sunrise, due to his lack of sleep and tiredness, he fell asleep, leaning where he sat, and holding the Quran in his hand. In his dream, a tree rooted on his chest started to grow and rise. It was a plane tree. It got greener and more beautiful as it grew. The shadow of its branches covered the entire world, and people from all around the world came and entered under its shadow. They were all very happy and cheerful.

Osman Ghazi told his dream to Sheik Edebali. After a short th ought, “Son, good news to you” Sheik replied. “You are going to establish a great empire, and your generation will rule with justice”.

Almighthy Allah, who is the creator of all things, rewarded Osman Ghazi Khan with one century of reign for each hour he spent reading Quran. His dynasty prevailed 6 centuries.

[Muramoursuard]

[B]
@abuhajira: How dare you belittle me for asking for evidence. Why would I blindly follow things such as this? Something like this almost certainly came up during the time of the Prophet(pbuh), the sahaba, or the tabieen. And if problems were found it would have been written about in hadith. You should be discouraging people from classifying things such as this as being haram or even disliked without providing evidence, not me for asking for evidence to better follow the sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh) and his companions.(and yes I see the tag of scholar, which is the only reason I decided to reply back to your snide remark and didn’t ignore it like the others.)

Just the same way you showed no regard for the word of Allah, no regard for the advices of your muslim brethren. No one asked you to treat it as fardh or wajib. Everyone told you its adab. Rasulullah says Ad deenun Naseehah. You belittled every naseehah that was given to you, instead you boldly ventured to say that you will definitely do the opposite, and you dare ask us how dare we belittle you? Your situation is indeed pitiful.

Its easy to say "ayn ad daleel", difficult to lower oneself to accept an advice.

Most people think that this is haram to do because it is so engrained in Muslim society. Incorrect. Since the begining of this thread, everyone has said that its a mark of respect. ONLY YOU came with this idea that we are forcing you into doing so. TripolySunni made the issue crystal clear to you. You made your own logical conclusion to get to a preconceived notion taught to you by your own ethical background. Dont blame others for that.

Also, I would like to warn my Muslim brothers and sisters on this forum to remember that everyone you come into contact to on this forum is a Muslim(including me). I say this because some of the posts in this thread are bordering backbiting/slander/malicious gossip. Jazak Allah, you can remind them everytime they do make such gossip.

[9V4i8xw1]

@abuhajira: Up until davidovitch people gave me their opinion of why they think it is disrespectful to put the Quran on the ground, once i read what davidovitch told me, that there is some evidence, I accepted it. And I will continue to accept that until I can prove otherwise. And I would also like to take this space to bump my request on the surah and ayah he cited and the hadith book and number. Also, when tripolysunni gave me evidence in regard to kissing the Quran I accepted it then. However, again his advice on setting the Quran on the ground was purely his opinion of what he considered disrespect.

Just the same way you showed no regard for the word of Allah, no regard for the advices of your muslim brethren. No one asked you to treat it as fardh or wajib. Everyone told you its adab. Rasulullah says Ad deenun Naseehah. You belittled every naseehah that was given to you, instead you boldly ventured to say that you will definitely do the opposite, and you dare ask us how dare we belittle you? Your situation is indeed pitiful. What a bold accusation you make here brother. Fear Allah. I show "regard" and respect for the words of Allah by reading them and following them. Everyone gave me their opinion that they saw it as disrespectful. When someone told me there is evidence and that it is not just the opinion of some people I accepted it there. I have layed down and read the Quran with it laying right next to me for years. I find this to be the most comfortable way to read the Quran especially in the Masjid where there are no chairs. This was the reason I asked, to better myself or to find out there is nothing wrong. I don't base my faith on others opinions or feelings which is why I asked for evidence, which there is nothing wrong with. Why should I blindly follow what someone says without evidence to back up his claims? It is clear while reading hadith that the sahaba and the tabieen would frequently ask each other if they heard such and such from the prophet or why they do such and such they would not just blindly follow. There is nothing wrong with asking questions or searching for evidence.

[EarnestKS]

What a bold accusation you make here brother. Fear Allah. I show "regard" and respect for the words of Allah by reading them and following them.

So, in your eyes, the Qur'an Majeed has the same status as a prescription slip? Or an instruction manual?

عيد مبارك

[9V4i8xw1]

So, in your eyes, the Qur'an Majeed has the same status as a prescription slip? Or an instruction manual? No, brother. And you know that is not what I meant by that so why ask. I understand the mob mentality but it has no place in Islam. I have said and done nothing against Islam in this thread. I have asked a question and asked for evidence, all within my rights as a Muslim.

[XinordiX]

This thread proves that shayateen is already released just after Ramadan; a simple matter turned into a debate.

[EarnestKS]

No, brother. And you know that is not what I meant by that so why ask. I understand the mob mentality but it has no place in Islam. I have said and done nothing against Islam in this thread. I have asked a question and asked for evidence, all within my rights as a Muslim.

Well, since you're looking for evidence for the "hows" of respect, then I don't see how that would require proof. Did the Prophet tell his sahaba to be overly defensive of him? No. This was ingrained in them. Many sahaba were ready to kill a person if he so much as said something out of line at Rasoolullah . The way we respect things are ingrained within us. Does it make any sense to place the words of Allah on the floor?

If it was a cultural thing, it would never be so ubiquitous. People in Indonesia are against putting the Qur'an on the floor just as people in Mauritania are against putting the Qur'an on the floor. Their cultures are different, but their deen is the same.

Also, it is hardly about "mob" mentality, but a matter of simple respect. The way we speak with ulama is to be respectable. If scholars criticize us, that gives us no right to lash out at them in the manner you did. Your reasoning for responding to his post specifically and in the manner you did was that he was a scholar, and apparently, that is how you think scholars should be talked to if they ever step out of line. It should be the complete opposite. Rasoolullah was much harsher in some of his criticism of some of the sahaba but none of the sahaba yelled back because they knew that he was speaking for their benefit. Ulama speak for our benefit and are treasures of this ummah. They are the inheritors of the prophets عليهم السلام. They deserve our respect.

[bettingonosports]

No, brother. And you know that is not what I meant by that so why ask. I understand the mob mentality but it has no place in Islam. I have said and done nothing against Islam in this thread. I have asked a question and asked for evidence, all within my rights as a Muslim.

brother in Islam

I hope you are doing well this Eid and hopefully we gain a lot in Ramadhan and may Allah accept our deeds and give us the best of health

Hopefully we can restart from all over again. I'm sorry that if I and other brothers sounded harshly at the beginning. Maybe because for most of us, it is very ingrained in us to not put kitabullah on a ground. It is hard to read between lines on internet because you can not catch the tones of people speaking from their writings. Are they mad or are they happy, etc? Sometimes the words looks ambiguous that you don't know what the feeling of the writers at that time. Maybe the way you were asking for evidence look very confronting while you were simply asking for it. Maybe next time try to word them carefully and other brothers shouldn't jump into conclusions etc.

May Allah open our hearts and continue guiding us to the truth. Belated Eid Mubarak.

[Muramoursuard]

@abuhajira: Up until davidovitch people gave me their opinion of why they think it is disrespectful to put the Quran on the ground, once i read what davidovitch told me, that there is some evidence, I accepted it. And I will continue to accept that until I can prove otherwise. And I would also like to take this space to bump my request on the surah and ayah he cited and the hadith book and number. Also, when tripolysunni gave me evidence in regard to kissing the Quran I accepted it then. However, again his advice on setting the Quran on the ground was purely his opinion of what he considered disrespect.



What a bold accusation you make here brother. Fear Allah. I show "regard" and respect for the words of Allah by reading them and following them. Everyone gave me their opinion that they saw it as disrespectful. When someone told me there is evidence and that it is not just the opinion of some people I accepted it there. I have layed down and read the Quran with it laying right next to me for years. I find this to be the most comfortable way to read the Quran especially in the Masjid where there are no chairs. This was the reason I asked, to better myself or to find out there is nothing wrong. I don't base my faith on others opinions or feelings which is why I asked for evidence, which there is nothing wrong with. Why should I blindly follow what someone says without evidence to back up his claims? It is clear while reading hadith that the sahaba and the tabieen would frequently ask each other if they heard such and such from the prophet or why they do such and such they would not just blindly follow. There is nothing wrong with asking questions or searching for evidence.

Do you not see the falacy of your decorum?

If you were to come here and say that where is the evidence that I should not slap my mother? and everyone started telling you its disrespectful and respect for ones mother is integral part of deen.

Would you say that untill you give me an evidence, I will slap my mother and only when some br. xyz will post the ayah about it, you will stop slapping?

Does that make ANY sense to you? The proper conduct for you is when a muslim brother tells you some act is not appropriate, then untill you find an evidence for it, you ABSTAIN from it. Not that you proceed towards it to later on regret it.

In anycase, seeking daleel has nothing to do with having humility in seeking knowledge. Do not hide behind the veil of "seeking daleel" to gain the right of being disrespectful to anyone you deem fit.

The above is ALSO a Naseeha, I do not wish to present evidence for it. Take it or leave it.

[texprofi]

@alfatiha: That still does not give me direct hadith evidence as all of the people and works you cited were complied/born hundreds of years after the hijrah. I'm sure these people didn't make this up which is why i'm asking where the primary source of the hadith is? Why cite the scholar when you can cite what the scholar is citing? Please give me the book and number of the hadith. Thank you.


Also, you said "You just don't put al-Quran on the ground." please give me evidence.

Respect and love are matters of the heart and matters of the heart if sound do not demand evidence or example. Unless your heart changes brother no sound reference on earth will make you change your stand. So start working upon your heart. May Allah guide you.