[hansen384cbh]

Yes brother, people who love our beloved prophet use miswak even though they have whitening toothpastes and electronic toothbrushes, they sleep on a rug on the floors even though they can afford a memory foam bed mattress, they wear sunnah libas even though they can get the best tuxedos, they keep beards and dye them red even though they can completely shave it to conform to the ideas of 'modernism' dictated by the west. They do all this and they smile, do charity, donate to somalia and do everything you can possibly imagine to help, and all this just because they love our beloved prophet so much. When you love someone so much there really is no room for excuses.

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other. Can't we smile for charity and also sport a beard?

[Adimos]

It is impossible that a practice of Rasulullah is ugly.

soo true. and every prophets face was adorned with the beard.

[layevymed]

I personally think full busy beared kept in neat and clean condition makes them looks like real man. Today we have people competeting to look like women.
I often wonder how could one say things against a clear Sunnah. Our nifaq has reached a state that today we air it with tounge. The arabs of today haven't excaped from their colonial hangover or secularism, so they have relegated the deen into a second or thirdclass notion. At times of fitnah to stand firm on sunnah yeild a great reward.
So keep the beared at least 1 fist full length, Imam shafi also had one fistfull length beared. So is the salf us saleeh.
At the same time wear clean, dignified attaire with good conduct and wear an imamah if you live in Middleast
Allahualam

I agreed with most of yourpost except taht you specified arabs when in reality, its the vast majority of muslims

[Zoxeeoy]

I agreed with most of yourpost except taht you specified arabs when in reality, its the vast majority of muslims

True...

[LkEHaduy]

Salaam alaikum,

I think that the issue of legality and the spirituality of the shari'ah should be kept in balance here when discussing somethings.

Fact is, the beard, be it fist length, more or less than this, whether the lihya means what is under the chin only, or if it includes the sides, etc, are all issues of variant opinions among the 'ulama, and even though there maybe some scholars who say a person can shave completely (I know that some say this can be done if there is some excuse like living in an oppressive regime, or illness, etc, but I personally have never heard an opinion from a scholar that said you could completely shave your face for no reason other than you want to), we have to realize and accept that the beard is one of the key images and signs of Islam. The VAST MAJORITY of ulama have said to keep the beard, and there are clear, rigidly authenticated ahadith commanding us to leave the beard grow, and shunning those who shave it. Shaving is a sign and style of the kuffaar and it has always been. The beard is also a manly characteristic, it goes against mans nature to be smoothed faced like a woman. Today some sick hearted people would try to debate that, and I understand why, since we live in an age where all issues concerning gender and sex are being intentionally blurred and skewed. Allah save us from the filth of the shaiyateen.

BUT we have to understand that because a person has a beard, that does not make him pious or god fearing. Nor does it give him a right to look down upon or criticize brothers who do not have beards, as the previous person said. We should have some shame, as we are full of sins that are without dispute forbidden, and because they are hidden everything thinks that we are pious since we dress a certain way and have a beard.

The reality is, the outward of people usually displays their inner state; a person who has no beard and knows that keeping a beard is important should be treated correctly, with the assumption that this person has a spiritual issue preventing him from outwardly displaying his deen. We need to befriend this person sincerely, and help them. And one thing we don't even need to mention the beard or any other exterior thing to them (meaning of appearance), as there will come a time with encouragement and closeness to the deen when this person will automatically start practicing these things, there ruh will scream for it. If a person grows a beard or does any action to please people, then this is worthless, but if he does it to please Allah, then it is something.

Now, for us that have beards, we should check ourselves; are we proud of that? Does this make us think we are pious? Does this make us think we love the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim? Does this make us think we are obedient servants? Does this make us look down on people who don't have a beard? When we see someone who doesn't have a beard, do we think, "what is wrong with him?"? Do we feel other people's value is based on their appearances only? Maybe intellectually we dont, but do subconsciously default to having this opinion? If anyone answers yes than we have much more serious problems that must be dealt with, otherwise our destination will be a lot warmer than we thought. Maybe the one thing a person is doing wrong is shaving, but maybe they are crying to Allah every night, telling their sins and asking Allah to forgive them; maybe they never look down on anyone and feel real love for their brothers and sisters, maybe they are humble and devoted people beyond what we could ever imagine. Maybe they are malaaikah sent to test us. Maybe we should ask ourselves, is my behavior or actions preventing this person from the sunnah? Am I always frowning, am I always picking faults, etc?

Basically, whenever we see something wrong in the ummah, before we think, "Oh those people," we should immediately look at ourselves and see what we are doing that could be causing this. Everyone should do this, beardwala or not. A believer is a mirror to his believing brother.

[Sakkola]

well, there are huge scholars who didnt think it was wajib to carry a beard. tell me, from quran and sunnah, what the punishment for not having one is?

however, rasulAllah (saw) did tell the men to grow a beard and this is a confirmed and blessed sunnah. legality aside, if your beloved prophet(saw), nay, ALL the prophets, carried a beard and you have major issues with this then perhaps you should reflect on some things.

i havent shaved for about 4 years now and i have never had any issues with anybody over it. i love my beard, my wife loves my beard, my (kuffar) family likes my beard. most issues people have are just perceived and have no basis in reality.

[carletoxtrs]

Salaam alaikum,

I think that the issue of legality and the spirituality of the shari'ah should be kept in balance here when discussing somethings.

Fact is, the beard, be it fist length, more or less than this, whether the lihya means what is under the chin only, or if it includes the sides, etc, are all issues of variant opinions among the 'ulama, and even though there maybe some scholars who say a person can shave completely (I know that some say this can be done if there is some excuse like living in an oppressive regime, or illness, etc, but I personally have never heard an opinion from a scholar that said you could completely shave your face for no reason other than you want to), we have to realize and accept that the beard is one of the key images and signs of Islam. The VAST MAJORITY of ulama have said to keep the beard, and there are clear, rigidly authenticated ahadith commanding us to leave the beard grow, and shunning those who shave it. Shaving is a sign and style of the kuffaar and it has always been. The beard is also a manly characteristic, it goes against mans nature to be smoothed faced like a woman. Today some sick hearted people would try to debate that, and I understand why, since we live in an age where all issues concerning gender and sex are being intentionally blurred and skewed. Allah save us from the filth of the shaiyateen.

BUT we have to understand that because a person has a beard, that does not make him pious or god fearing. Nor does it give him a right to look down upon or criticize brothers who do not have beards, as the previous person said. We should have some shame, as we are full of sins that are without dispute forbidden, and because they are hidden everything thinks that we are pious since we dress a certain way and have a beard.

The reality is, the outward of people usually displays their inner state; a person who has no beard and knows that keeping a beard is important should be treated correctly, with the assumption that this person has a spiritual issue preventing him from outwardly displaying his deen. We need to befriend this person sincerely, and help them. And one thing we don't even need to mention the beard or any other exterior thing to them (meaning of appearance), as there will come a time with encouragement and closeness to the deen when this person will automatically start practicing these things, there ruh will scream for it. If a person grows a beard or does any action to please people, then this is worthless, but if he does it to please Allah, then it is something.

Now, for us that have beards, we should check ourselves; are we proud of that? Does this make us think we are pious? Does this make us think we love the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim? Does this make us think we are obedient servants? Does this make us look down on people who don't have a beard? When we see someone who doesn't have a beard, do we think, "what is wrong with him?"? Do we feel other people's value is based on their appearances only? Maybe intellectually we dont, but do subconsciously default to having this opinion? If anyone answers yes than we have much more serious problems that must be dealt with, otherwise our destination will be a lot warmer than we thought. Maybe the one thing a person is doing wrong is shaving, but maybe they are crying to Allah every night, telling their sins and asking Allah to forgive them; maybe they never look down on anyone and feel real love for their brothers and sisters, maybe they are humble and devoted people beyond what we could ever imagine. Maybe they are malaaikah sent to test us. Maybe we should ask ourselves, is my behavior or actions preventing this person from the sunnah? Am I always frowning, am I always picking faults, etc?

Basically, whenever we see something wrong in the ummah, before we think, "Oh those people," we should immediately look at ourselves and see what we are doing that could be causing this. Everyone should do this, beardwala or not. A believer is a mirror to his believing brother.

Salam u alaikum borther, what you have written is valuable. But the issue on hand is not about getting all arrogant while keeping the beard or looking down upon people who dont have a beard. Rather the issue at hand is , whether a beard is an established Sunnah which is wajib or not. We dont care about what people feel inside. Because that is a person's own amal. You can be arrogant with a beard or without a beard.We dont know who is arrogant and who is not. Only Allah knows who feels what ways. So lets stick to the issue with an academic argument , and brothers who say it is wajib, bring forth their proofs and show the brothers who think otherwise. and brothers who feel it is not wajib explain why it isnt. And those who say not keeping it is a sign of nifaq or not having love and importance of Prophet S.w, their words should not be taken personal, rather it should be pondered over and checked that is that true , do i really love everything about the prophet or not. And each amal is judged separately . A person might be following the sunnah of beard, but he might be weak in following the sunnah of good ikhlaq. So doesn't mean he should also shave of his beard because he is struggling in ikhlaq. Also if a brother is weak in following the sunnah of beard but is strong in following the sunnah of ikhlaq then we also value him and that is a sign of his attachment to the deen. So both the types are valuable, but everyone should understand we might be strong in some areas and weak in some areas, we should accept where we are weak , rather then bringing weak and false arguments to nullify established sunnahs of the prophets and muslims.

[LkEHaduy]

Salaam alaikum,

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but to myself.

The reason that people don't follow the sunan, or even the deen of Allah, is all to do with their inner state. The inner state of people must change before the outer will sincerely change.

No one here is an academic, so this is not an academic discussion. It is simply an array of laymen discussing something that should not be discussed. No one should be bringing dalaail here, as no one is even qualified to discuss these issues here even if they bring them. Itis haraam to discuss what we do not know. This deen is serious, not a free for all, where anyone can come and start commenting on the discussions of the ulama, and allowing their nafs to take sides as they see fit. When the adults speak the children stay silent. If anyone truly wants to know the shari' ruling of this and the ikhtilaaf surrounding it, they must consult a scholar, preferably a mufti. And if you want ikhtilaaf opinions, then consult various scholars from the various mathaahib. This is what the op was advised and it should have been finished there. But alas this will spiral into a multi page topic, and no one will actually go and find out anything or learn from the various opinions, rather we will just become more entrenched in our own "opinions". The issue is not one of this being wajib or not wajib, as with many things, there is a lot of grey area in many fiqhi issues on many topics. This is not a simpleton's religion, and only in a simpleton's world are things black and white.

[carletoxtrs]

Salaam alaikum,

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but to myself.

The reason that people don't follow the sunan, or even the deen of Allah, is all to do with their inner state. The inner state of people must change before the outer will sincerely change.

Brother you are right but that is one point of view amongst the ulema and suffia , and among many ulema and suffia , they say rather change your outward because that will have an effect on your inward. And for this they say adopt the outward sunnahs and then it will have an impact on your inward state. So it is actually stated both ways.

No one here is an academic, so this is not an academic discussion. It is simply an array of laymen discussing something that should not be discussed. No one should be bringing dalaail here, as no one is even qualified to discuss these issues here even if they bring them. Itis haraam to discuss what we do not know. This deen is serious, not a free for all, where anyone can come and start commenting on the discussions of the ulama, and allowing their nafs to take sides as they see fit. When the adults speak the children stay silent. If anyone truly wants to know the shari' ruling of this and the ikhtilaaf surrounding it, they must consult a scholar, preferably a mufti. And if you want ikhtilaaf opinions, then consult various scholars from the various mathaahib. This is what the op was advised and it should have been finished there. But alas this will spiral into a multi page topic, and no one will actually go and find out anything or learn from the various opinions, rather we will just become more entrenched in our own "opinions". The issue is not one of this being wajib or not wajib, as with many things, there is a lot of grey area in many fiqhi issues on many topics. This is not a simpleton's religion, and only in a simpleton's world are things black and white.

Well said brother! you can bring forth these arguments, if you feel through your research this is a grey area and that scholars have differed, and this is awesome. your point of view will be respected. My concerns was forget how people feel inside within themselves. Arrogant or not arrogant. If bearded people are arrogant that is their spiritual disease, and this disease is also found in non bearded people. I say this cuz everytime i see a discussion on beard, when ever the brothers who follow the opinion that beard is Wajib and shaving is haram, this point of arrogance is shoved on their face because some bearded people happened to be arrogant. And never do i see the other side throwing this that shaved people are arrogant so there is no point shaving. Any one can get arrogant either ways, a bearded person might think i am better than others spiritually , the shaved one can think oh iam more modern and advanced looking and he might think bearded people as backwards. Both is arrogance, but here the debate was just what is the ruling on beard. Some think its black and white and some think its grey. simple. And i dont think i will act this way that i know it all and say people who see things as black and white are simpleton dumb and people who see everything grey are actually smart. It can be argued that people who see things as grey are simpleton and lack deeper understanding and himma and thats why always stay confused. and that is a weaker position of knowledge. So we cant say exactly who is smart and intelligent. The best we can do is have adab and respect with each other and listen to each others arguments, without being cynics and commenting on peoples inner intentions and states.I mean no offence , i am the lowest of the low and need your prayers. with all our differences this simpleton is your brother, Eid mubarak.