[Blaxastij]

Assalamualikum,

I am was just having a discussion about the First Thing Allah created....i learnt it was the Nur of beloved prophet (saw)....can someone verify this for me please?

JazakAllah,
wa'salam

[Emunsesoxmete]

Yes you are correct.

[Wdlglivi]

I have come across this hadees:

The Prophet (PBUH) says, “The first thing created by Allah was the pen, then, He ordered it to write, so it wrote everything that will happen till the Day of Judgment.” (narrated by At-Tirmidhi, Abu-Dawud, and Ahmad). This Hadith is narrated in another way by Al-Bukhari. His narration will make it clearer for you. He says that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) says, “Allah (SWT) said to the pen write my knowledge about my creatures until the Day of Judgment.”

[zooworms]

Some use the Hadith of al-Bukhari which means "Allah existed and there was nothing other than Him. And His Arsh was on the water. And He ordered the pen to write...." to say that the first creation was water (and with it time and place), then the Arsh, then the pen, then the tablet.

Some use the hadith that the first thing created was the light of Muhammad . This hadith, however, is controversial. It is narrated by Abdurrazzaq, but is not found in all of the manuscripts of his Sunan. Furthermore, there are other ahadith that contradict it, such as the hadith where Rasoolullah says that everything was created from water. There is also an ayah that means that every living thing was created from water.

For these reasons, that hadith is a major subject of debate among scholars.

Allahu 'Alam.

[illignocearia]

Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Mufti Ahmed Rashid Gangohi both were of the view that the first of creation was the Nur of the Prophet .

There is an article by Shaykh Nuh Keller that elaborates on the issue a lot more too: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/masudq7.htm

[Emunsesoxmete]

Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Mufti Ahmed Rashid Gangohi both were of the view that the first of creation was the Nur of the Prophet .

There is an article by Shaykh Nuh Keller that elaborates on the issue a lot more too: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/masudq7.htm

Yeah, see:

The Prophet Is The First Creation & The Root Of All Blessings: Maulana Ashraf `Ali Thanawi

[Ufkkrxcq]

there are alot hadith saying differeny things where created first. the prophet (saw) nur, water, pen etc all being backed up by hadith.

[Blaxastij]

there are alot hadith saying differeny things where created first. the prophet (saw) nur, water, pen etc all being backed up by hadith.

Exactly! I guess there is no one answer then. Thanks.

[mortgrhhh]

Some say it was water, but some say the Nur of the Prophet . Obviously the Nur of the Prophet is more important.

[Ufkkrxcq]

it must be noted that majority of the times i have read the hadith regarding the nur of the prophet (saw) it is in books discussion the greatest and virtues of the prophet (saw) and alike alot of books for fazaail weak ahadith are used. but like the brother said earlier no one exactly knows and i dont think it is really important had it been so there would have been a clear answere

[plogypeskelry]

Sorry to ressurrect this thread, what about the Throne [`Arsh] of Allah? was this created before or after the Nur of the Prophet ?

[mikapoq]

Sorry to ressurrect this thread, what about the Throne [`Arsh] of Allah? was this created before or after the Nur of the Prophet ?

According to the hadeeth, it was first the nur of the Prophet (SAW), which was split in to four to create:

(a) The pen
(b) The tablet
(c) The arsh

The 4th part was split in to another 4 to create:

(a) The angels to carry his arsh
(b) His throne (kursi)
(c) The rest of the angels

The 4th was split in to another four to create:

(a) The skies/heavens
(b) The earths
(c) Jannah & hell fire

The 4th was split in to another, to create:

(a) The nur of the mu'mins' eyes
(b) The nur of the mu'mins' hearts
(c) Love/affection (urdu: 'uns')

I believe Imam Qastalani has quoted this hadeeth in one of his books? (I'll check later insha'allh).



(NOTE: I have made slight changes due to errors in the translation, which inshallah have now been corrected .)

[Corporal White]

According to the hadeeth, it was first the nur of the Prophet (SAW), which was split in to four to create:

(a) The pen
(b) The tablet
(c) The arsh

The 4th part was split in to another 4 to create:

(a) The angels to carry his throne (kursi)
(b) His throne
(c) The rest of the angels

The 4th was split in to another four to create:

(a) The skies/heavens
(b) The planets
(c) Jannah & hell fire

The 4th was split in to another, to create:

(a) The nur of the mu'mins' eyes
(b) The nur of the mu'mins' hearts
(c) Love

I believe Imam Qastalani has quoted this hadeeth in one of his books? (I'll check later insha'allh).

Do you have a source for this Hadith?

[Kokomoxcv]

It is the same oft-quoted hadith of Hadrat Jabir , which nobody has managed to produce a sanad for and which has been classified as fabricated by a number of muhaddithin.

[plogypeskelry]

It is the same oft-quoted hadith of Hadrat Jabir , which nobody has managed to produce a sanad for and which has been classified as fabricated by a number of muhaddithin.

is there any authentic ahadith that says arsh was the first thing created by Allah?

[KahiroSamo]

Mufti Husain,

What is the status of saying that if Allaah hadn't created Rasulullaah, peace be upon him, He wouldn't have created anything else?

[uneniaPhenits]

It is the same oft-quoted hadith of Hadrat Jabir , which nobody has managed to produce a sanad for and which has been classified as fabricated by a number of muhaddithin.

Please let us know how many “Muhaddithin” say it is fabricated?


And their Names:………………………..?



“Hadith of Jabir”:

`Abd al-Razzaq (d. 211) narrates it in his Musannaf according to Qastallani in al-Mawahib al-laduniyya (1:55) and Zarqani in his Sharh al-mawahib (1:56 of the Matba`a al-`amira edition in Cairo).


Have most of the great personalities of Islam lied to the Muslims and told us fib’s regarding the “Hadith of jabir” ?


Or do we need to look at it again?

What is Validity Of Weak Hadith?


Is the “Hadith of Jabir”Fabricated or not?

[Kokomoxcv]

Have most of the great personalities of Islam lied to the Muslims and told us fib’s regarding the “Hadith of jabir” ?

Here we go again...

Firstly, to avoid an infraction, take the pains to read the Forum rules and abide to them.
Rule 3.6 states:"Members should use a "normal font", avoid excessive numbers of emoticons, large, small or coloured text, and punctuation's (e.g.! and?) in your posts."

Secondly, lets analyse your amazing logic:

As per your logic, if an alim quotes a hadith, being under the impression that it exists in a certain book, when it fact it doesn't exist, then this alim has lied to the ummah!
You have now classfied a huge portion of this Ummahs personalities as liars.

Let take your logic one step forward. If this is lying, then recording fabricated ahadith in ones books, even if with the sanad, would be an even greater lie to the Ummah, as per your incredible logic!
That might leave you with a handful of Muhaddithin who aren't liars.

Now to get to the issue at hand, you claim

“Hadith of Jabir”:

`Abd al-Razzaq (d. 211) narrates it in his Musannaf according to Qastallani in al-Mawahib al-laduniyya (1:55) and Zarqani in his Sharh al-mawahib (1:56 of the Matba`a al-`amira edition in Cairo).

Could we inquire the special reason for you not only giving us the page and volume number of Sharh al-Mawahib but also the the publication info, but then being unable to even give a page number for this hadith in Musannaf Abd ar-Razzaq?

Could it be, that this hadith is not found in the book you claim it to be in?
Nevermind the printed edition, there is no sign of it in any manuscript of it in the world.

Now, our request to you is simple:
As you so vehemently claim the existence of this hadith, please mention the chain of narrators for it?
Even a beginner in hadith would know that a hadith holds absolutely no weight, without its chain, like a body, without the head.

We will not hold our breath waiting, as we all know that you will never be able to produce the chain, unless of course you resort to the tactics adopted by our contemporary Ahl al-Bidah, who proceeded to forge an entire section of the musannaf and fabricated over 40 ahadith, just to prove their baseless beliefs!

They will harp day and night over a few minor tamperings of the wahhabis, yet this crime of theirs is weightier that the combined weigh of all the wahhabi tamperings.

Or do we need to look at it again?

What is Validity Of Weak Hadith?


Is the “Hadith of Jabir”Fabricated or not?

Continue looking at it all you wish, a hadith without a sanad is not a weak hadith, it is a BASELESS one.

Now, to clarify this issue for the benefit of the others, who are interested in seeking the truth:
There is absolutely no sign of this narration, in any book of hadith.
Someone mistakenly attributed it to Abd ar-Razzak and others followed suit, all relying on the first one, thinking that he must have seen it in there.
This is why one will find many senior Ulama of the last few centuries attributing it to Abd ar-Razzak. Most of them took it from Sharh al-Mawahib, who incorrectly referenced it. None of these Ulama had copies of the Musannaf of Abd ar-Razzak, to properly ascertain its existence, neither did any of them ever mention a sanad (chain) for it.

Seeing this widespread mis-attribution, a few letter-day muhadithin - who went through the musannaf and confirmed its non-existence- had classified it as fabricated, as it quite clear when ones sees the wording of the hadith and adds this to the fact that there is no known sanad for it.
The Ghumari brothers, Ahmed and Abd Allah, are two who classified it as fabricated, with Abd Allah writing a booklet to prove its fabrication, titled "Murshid al-Ha'ir".

From the great Huffadh, Allamah Suyuti has mentioned that there is no sanad that could be relied upon, for this narration.

Those whose most crucial and necessary aqidah is that Nabi is present in every atom of this world, thus viewing all that is taking place, would of course never accept it as a fabrication.

And Allah Ta'ala knows best

[Corporal White]

Mufti Husain,

Jazakallahu Khair for that information.

May Allah grant you the best of this life and the hereafter.

[TheBest-Host]

Those who have access to Allamah Ibn Kathir's (rahmatullahialay) al Bidayah wa Nihayyah I suggest you consult it for a very good discussion on this topic. I'll post the info' later .