[Borrinas]

Dont most Shia believe in the Kalmiah, Isnt that enough to make them closer to us than the Kafir?

Im asking this because Sadly The Iranian Government is closer to the Islamic groups fighting all over the world and they usually help them with arms etc and they are the only Government not useless and controlled by the west.

[glagoliska]

Dont most Shia believe in the Kalmiah, Isnt that enough to make them closer to us than the Kafir?

Im asking this because Sadly The Iranian Government is closer to the Islamic groups fighting all over the world and they usually help them with arms etc and they are the only Government not useless and controlled by the west.

There are sects in Islam who beleive in views which are in absolute contrast to Islam but they also recite the Kalimah e.g. Lahori Qadiyanees...They believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani who professed to be Prophet (thus a Kaafir) is a Mujtahid Imam (who can change Shariah)

Lahorees recite the same Kalima but are Kaffirs.

Certain sects of Durooz (from Lebanon) also recite the Kalimah but they also believe that Shariah ONLY become applicable after 40 and they also believe in Imams (who can change Shariah), thus are also Kaafir.

I am only summarising basic things because there is much more as to why they are Kaafir.

So reciting the Kalima isn't enough.

In the movie Quli (1983) Amitabh Bachan also recited the Kalima when he is being shot out on top of the Mazar (shrine) by taking a loose definition we will also have to cosider Amitabh Bachan Muslim

[flopay]

[...]
Certain sects of Duroon (from Lebanon) [...]

وعليكم السلامDo you mean the Druze?
والسلام

[glagoliska]

وعليكم السلامDo you mean the Druze?
والسلام

Corrected...

[squicscor]

Dont most Shia believe in the Kalmiah, Isnt that enough to make them closer to us than the Kafir?

Im asking this because Sadly The Iranian Government is closer to the Islamic groups fighting all over the world and they usually help them with arms etc and they are the only Government not useless and controlled by the west.

Simply uttering the Shahadah is not enough if someone also hold beliefs that negate basic and fundamental beliefs of Islam, as is the case of most part of today "Shi'ah".

We should be "close" to Shi'ah just to bash them. ; -)

Also Venezuela and Bolivia holds great political positions, this doesn't mean they're muslims.

[traiffhetl]

In the movie Quli (1983) Amitabh Bachan also recited the Kalima when he is being shot out on top of the Mazar (shrine) by taking a loose definition we will also have to cosider Amitabh Bachan Muslim

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Br. Muadh, I think you should now disclose whatsoever connection that you have with the Bollywood.

I still remember your replies in another thread that was solely related to bollywood.

Lol

[traiffhetl]

We should be "close" to Shi'ah just to bash them. ; -)

No!
Lets go with hikmah, Bro----We should be "close" to Shi'ah just to call them to the real Islam.

[kictainiSot]

As Salâm Alaykum wa Rahmatullâh wa Barakâtuh

No!
Lets go with hikmah, Bro----We should be "close" to Shi'ah just to call them to the real Islam. I agree, akhi.
We have to do dawaa to people who haven't a good islam.

Wa Alaykum Salâm wa Rahmatullâh wa Barakâtuh

[Tjfyojlg]

Dont most Shia believe in the Kalmiah, Isnt that enough to make them closer to us than the Kafir?

Im asking this because Sadly The Iranian Government is closer to the Islamic groups fighting all over the world and they usually help them with arms etc and they are the only Government not useless and controlled by the west.

Iran like any other government has it's interests and has its Racial problems But you should all know that Iran is not ruled by one Man like Saudi or Egypt, in Iran each group is living in its own world for example the Revolutionary Guard has it's Politics, Religious leaders have thier own Politics and several views, Ahmadi Nijad is in a different planet with different politics, The Ministers have thier own thing as well.
And while Iran's policy might Have a good policy in some countries like Lebanon In others it might have a different Policy besides The Leaders are Split and Iran as a government does not have complete control over many Shiite militias...
However it cannot be Denied that they Have ADOPTED the policy of resistance Simply because the Arena was Clear, in other words No arab Country assumed that Role so Iran took the Chance and that is only Logical as it also helps advertise for the Persian Islamic Revolution.
I cannot deny the fact that Iran was and still is Aiding Everysingle Sunni Fundamentalist Armed resistance from HAMAS to Jihad islami to Al Tawheed to Jabha Islamiyah... So they are strebghtening all who oppose Israel and America in that region..
As for my experience with the Shiites I'm living in Dubai and at the moment my bestFreind is a Shiite and they are split into three groups The First group Hates The Sahaba and the Sunnah and repeat nonesense Propagandas because they have been brainwashed to do so and they have no idea what they are doing, so basically this is a group of Ignorants that can be Found Mainly in Iraq and they just repeat what thier parents have told them when they were children without looking into it, but these guys are not to be considered Kuffar because many of them Don't even Curse the Sahaba or pray for Graves or anything of that sorts but they stil beleive in some "stories".
Second Group are the Shiite propagandists and these are usually extremists that can be found in any religion and they spread hate and False Stories while fully knowing what they are doing at some points, These can be Considered kuffar from my point of view Only if they Make Takfir on the Sahaba or the sunnah or Denounce he Quran or Pray to Graves or Say that the Imamah is Higher than Prophethood...
Third group is a correctional movment which is spreading pretty fast amongst thier ranks, They do not hate the Sahaba and hold nothing against them, Some ofthem Complement the Sahaba and Talk positively about Omar and Abu Bakr and accept the Fact that Ali and Jafaar have named thierChildren after the Sahaba and that sunnah and shiites are brothers in Islam and thse guys are welcomed by many Educted sunnah from the Otherside such as Qaradawi ... Basically these Guys are in no Way Kuffar or enemies in fact Some of them are closer to sunnah than ur average classic Shiite (BTW these guys are found in very large numbers today thus we cannot includethem in Takfir at all).

Anyway we should welcome the Shiites with open arms as long as there is no Cursing becaus the rest of the stuff is irrelevant when compared to cursing and Even if they don't convert to the sunni path yet Many of them will leave the old extrmist ways and start to become moderate muslims Whereas if we Shun them and Isolate tem they will Increase in Ghulu and Extremism.

From a political Point of view IRAN and TURKIYA are Irrepleceable allies and Our Dumb Leaders should know how to deal with them propely and not create more illusionary enemies BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE ENEMY AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

[wrewsTear]

Actually shias do not have the same kalima as Sunnis. Shias have added words to the kalima:

http://www.kr-hcy.com/shia/kalima/index.shtml

shia sab sy ghaleez tareen kaafir

Shia is the dirtiest kaafir of the whole world

[Corporal White]

No!
Lets go with hikmah, Bro----We should be "close" to Shi'ah just to call them to the real Islam.

This is what I thought previously. We should show good akhlaq to them (or anybody else) so that their heart will become easy to accept the real truth, instead of challenging and bashing them. The same thing should be also applied to the different opinions ("Salafi", etc) too.

[WGRocky]

just for the sake of an argument I say to the OP.

your mom is a h o o k e r

How close do you want to be to me ?

The only proof that you have that the lady who claims to be your mother, told you that she is your mother and she has a birth certificate that states so. All man made stuff.

Allah says in the quran that the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers.


I rest my case.



Just illustrating it. I have no ill feelings towards the OP or his respectable mother.

[squicscor]

And while Iran's policy might Have a good policy in some countries like Lebanon In others it might have a different Policy besides The Leaders are Split and Iran as a government does not have complete control over many Shiite militias...
However it cannot be Denied that they Have ADOPTED the policy of resistance Simply because the Arena was Clear, in other words No arab Country assumed that Role so Iran took the Chance and that is only Logical as it also helps advertise for the Persian Islamic Revolution.
I cannot deny the fact that Iran was and still is Aiding Everysingle Sunni Fundamentalist Armed resistance from HAMAS to Jihad islami to Al Tawheed to Jabha Islamiyah... So they are strebghtening all who oppose Israel and America in that region..

Well that's not true.

If it's right to say that in countries like Palestine and Lebanon, Iran pursue anti-imperialist politics in (but just for their own benefits and for their own nationalist hegemonical plans), BUT in other countries (like Afghanistan and Iraq) they OPENLY collaborate and help the USA and other kuffar forces against Sunni resistances.
Iran is anti-imperialist only when they have something to take advantage of.

Third group is a correctional movment which is spreading pretty fast amongst thier ranks, They do not hate the Sahaba and hold nothing against them, Some ofthem Complement the Sahaba and Talk positively about Omar and Abu Bakr and accept the Fact that Ali and Jafaar have named thierChildren after the Sahaba and that sunnah and shiites are brothers in Islam and thse guys are welcomed by many Educted sunnah from the Otherside such as Qaradawi ... Basically these Guys are in no Way Kuffar or enemies in fact Some of them are closer to sunnah than ur average classic Shiite (BTW these guys are found in very large numbers today thus we cannot includethem in Takfir at all). Taqiyyah?

[yWleIJm4]

In the movie Quli (1983) Amitabh Bachan also recited the Kalima when he is being shot out on top of the Mazar (shrine) by taking a loose definition we will also have to cosider Amitabh Bachan Muslim

[BodeOmissemia]

Assalamo alikum!

I am in the opinion that against the powers like America and Israel the real enemies of Islam, we should in favour of government like Iran (shias)....But in our daily life avoid them,,,,,If one can give dawah to them and they come to right path than its fine

[wrewsTear]

Assalamo alikum!

I am in the opinion that against the powers like America and Israel the real enemies of Islam, we should in favour of government like Iran (shias)....But in our daily life avoid them,,,,,If one can give dawah to them and they come to right path than its fine

We should never favor Iran or Shias. They are backstabbers like Jews. Right now Iran is helping America to kill Talibans in western Afghanistan, and to kill Sunnis in Iraq. Iran gave money and weapons to shia militias to committ genocide against Sunni Muslims in Iraq.

Also, please tell me one war which Iran faught against Israel.

[BodeOmissemia]

We should never favor Iran or Shias. They are backstabbers like Jews. Right now Iran is helping America to kill Talibans in western Afghanistan, and to kill Sunnis in Iraq. Iran gave money and weapons to shia militias to committ genocide against Sunni Muslims in Iraq.

Also, please tell me one war which Iran faught against Israel.

That was only my opinion.....I am not in favour of shia.... but atleast Iran face superpower like America with strong answers,,,,nor is coward like other Islamic countries which obeys order of America....Iran if not fought with Israel,,,but still Israel has only one threat of Iran in this region....and if you read my previous post carefully i wrote that against America and Israel we are in favour of Iran,,,,I am not in favour that Iran killing sunnis, and other thing you have mentioned.

[Tjfyojlg]

Well that's not true.

If it's right to say that in countries like Palestine and Lebanon, Iran pursue anti-imperialist politics in (but just for their own benefits and for their own nationalist hegemonical plans), BUT in other countries (like Afghanistan and Iraq) they OPENLY collaborate and help the USA and other kuffar forces against Sunni resistances.
Iran is anti-imperialist only when they have something to take advantage of.

What's not true? I just told you they have different policies everywere because Iran is a Country with interests just like any other, which means they are not Doing it For the Sake of Allah Purely, Nor can you Blame all Shiites for what Iran does here or there in secret or if thier Foreign policy Coincides with America in some cases or Contradicts it in Others, STILL Iran is much better than most Arab countries who Deserted the Political Arena and Left Iran/Turkiya alone to do whatever They please.
When Iran does good we Applaud them and when they Do bad we stand against them it's as simple as that...
Besides I just Told you that Iran does not have one central decision for example the Revolutionary Guard might be Against America in Iraq at some point But Nijad might want to Negotiate with them regarding some other matters (Petrol) so here we see One side is Negotiating and the Other is waging a War at the same time. Basically We've read many articles that hinted that a civil-war might happen in Iran because of things like this...

BTW Iran does not have an Islamic Shiite Policy They have a Russian Policy, now that might seem islamic to some Ignorants at some points because of "Anti-Imperialism" But if you research it you will clearly see that Iran is Almost a Russian Tool which is Backed by Russia and even China at times And they have the Exact same Policy that Russia would have anywhere in the world, So Anti -Israeli in Lebanona and Anti-Taliban in Afghanistan...

Taqiyyah?

I would Say No, since I Know many Shiites and have been dealing with them for a while, But I just want to know HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW IT's TAQIYYA?
Does Allah Judge us depending on what is written in the Books of Our Scholars? for example In our Sunnah Books it is written that a Muslim does not Lie YET almost all of Us Lie.... Trust me They have No reason to do Taqiyya anymore specially behind a computer screen and if you notice most of them confront you with what they have and enter in arguments and debates....Now Taqiyya might be practiced by some of those who are defending some shiite Hadith or by Saying that they Own the book and what we Quoted is not in it..In these situations they might lie just to not get humiliated.
Anyway Forget about Taqiyya, Remove it from ur Dictionary because it gets us Nowhere when dealing with a shiite and it sure as hell wont resolve anything.

[nikolapegayyyaasss]

I would Say No, since I Know many Shiites and have been dealing with them for a while, But I just want to know HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW IT's TAQIYYA?
Does Allah Judge us depending on what is written in the Books of Our Scholars? for example In our Sunnah Books it is written that a Muslim does not Lie YET almost all of Us Lie.... Trust me They have No reason to do Taqiyya anymore specially behind a computer screen and if you notice most of them confront you with what they have and enter in arguments and debates....Now Taqiyya might be practiced by some of those who are defending some shiite Hadith or by Saying that they Own the book and what we Quoted is not in it..In these situations they might lie just to not get humiliated.
Anyway Forget about Taqiyya, Remove it from ur Dictionary because it gets us Nowhere when dealing with a shiite and it sure as hell wont resolve anything. Actually Taqiyyah IS an important part of the Twelver Shia religion. However this is not something that today's Twelver Shias would do, because they are trying to spread their religion everywhere and thus all aspects of their religion are open for those who wish to look at it.

Taqiyyah is nevertheless important in how the Shia 'Ulama weigh the different sayings of their so-called Infallible Imams and judge which of the various contradicting statements by the Imams were truthfully said by them, and which ones were said while the Imams were trying to dupe the non-Shias. In this respect then, Taqiyyah is a pillar of the Twelver Shia religion just like Ijma' or any other principle is important for the Muslims.

[glagoliska]

Asslamo Allaikum,

I put the Amitabh Bachan story (1983) as a joke but on a serious note.

As I was in Pakistan I remember people (people who I now think as Barelwees) having Qur'aan Khawanees & Khatams for Amitabh Bachan when he got injured during the shooting of Quli (movie) as they thought that he had embraced Islam by reciting the Kalimah. Constant Khatams and people going to Mazars, women distributing food etc...

I remember everybody debating the fact in our school that we should make dua for his speedy recovery as he was now a Muslim and other kids in the school saying "No! He is a Hindu Kaafir" . I remember our Islamic stuides teacher (someone who I think as a Pushtun Deobandi) saying that nobody just becomes a Muslim by just reading the Kalimah...

As a child I also read the Fatwa of Shaykh (Mufti) Yusuf Ludhyanwi (RA) in Jang as to why someone isn't a Muslim just because he/she reads the Kalimah (in a movie)

This incident was such an issue in Pakistan that in my mind (as a child) it solidified the concept of how someone becomes Muslims.

It was a stupid incident but it helped me understand a lot as a child.

All of this in the backdrop of Afghan Jihad...Interesting times the 80's were!