[kmjbbT3U]

Firstly i would just like to say this is not a thread to bash salafis/ahle-hadith

I am just wondering why they are referred to as ghair muqallids by others?
To me they are not really ghair muqallids. They may not follow one of the 4 madhabs in their entirety but they do make taqleed of scholars else i would imagine they would all pray differently and all come up with different opinions but for the most part they all seem to follow the same rulings on fiqhi issues

so are they really ghair muqallids?

[SeftyJokipl]

Firstly i would just like to say this is not a thread to bash salafis/ahle-hadith

I am just wondering why they are referred to as ghair muqallids by others?
To me they are not really ghair muqallids. They may not follow one of the 4 madhabs in their entirety but they do make taqleed of scholars else i would imagine they would all pray differently and all come up with different opinions but for the most part they all seem to follow the same rulings on fiqhi issues

so are they really ghair muqallids?

In one the audio file of Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri D.B I was listening, Mufti Sahib Said (not-exact words) In fact these Ahle-hadith / salafi people are not Ghair-muqallid, they are also Muqallids. They refer and accept the view of the scholars of their group only, where as the Sholars of a Madhab refer and view opinions of other madhabs. Thus these Ahle Hadith / Salafess are much greater Muqallid than us.

[kmjbbT3U]

I have often heard talks by ulemah where they refer to them as ghair muqallids and say that these people just pick and choose rulings themselves when in reality it is not the case

although this is not really the fault of the ulemah because salafis/ahle hadith try to make people think they go directly to Quran and Sunnah and don't refer to scholars but i think it would make more sense if ulemah said it how it really is rather than how the salafis/ahlehadith try to make out that they don't follow anyone

[EmpaccalGah]

Let me try to summarize it per my understanding.

Taqleed (In Istilahi sense) = Accepting the opinion of a person in religious affairs without demanding for the Daleel. The Salafis oppose such type of Taqleed and this type of Taqleed has not been prevalant among the Hanabila as well. However , should a lay person do Taqleed or not is a controversial issue among the Salafis as well. The Dhahiri inclined Salafis like Imam Shawkani ra etc deemed it forbidden for a lay person to do Taqleed as well. Their opinion is that everyone should investigate the fiqhi issues and once he gets the Daleel for a specific fiqhi ruling then it is itibaa' not Taqleed. Then the Hanbali inclined Salafis like Shaykh Uthaymeen rahimahullah deemed it necessary for a lay person to do Taqleed.
It is noteworthy that the Taqleed issue basically originated from the indian subcontinent where a few individuals went to extremes in rejecting Taqleed as a whole in opposition to the Jamid Taqleed of the Hanafis there. My opinion is that a layperson has to do Taqleed and if we expand the meanings of Taqleed , we all are Muqalids at time and Ghair Muqalids at times. It should also be kept in mind that the Subcontinental Salafis don't call themselves Ghair Muqalids. They say that they are "Muhaqiqs" opposed to "Muqalids".

[kmjbbT3U]

dr.ati

i don't see what makes salafism so different to following a madhab
For example a hanafi follows a hanafi kitaab about salah and it has hadiths compiled therein and the shaykh who has compiled the kitaab has written that these are the most authentic hadith regarding salah.

The salafi follows the prayer book by Shaykh Albaani RH in which he has compiled the hadiths and has said this is the most authentic way

a layman makes taqleed in trusting the scholars opinion of which hadith is sahih and which is not as the science of hadith is not something anyone of us can just go and investigate without extensive study

but when a madhabi follows his shaykh its blind following but when a salafi follows his its not blind following

to me that is like saying..."They eat ice cream, we do not eat ice cream....we eat cream which is frozen...therefore we are different"

[BEKREUNSEPBERw]

Firstly i would just like to say this is not a thread to bash salafis/ahle-hadith

I am just wondering why they are referred to as ghair muqallids by others?
To me they are not really ghair muqallids. They may not follow one of the 4 madhabs in their entirety but they do make taqleed of scholars else i would imagine they would all pray differently and all come up with different opinions but for the most part they all seem to follow the same rulings on fiqhi issues

so are they really ghair muqallids?

Great thinking!

ٍسبحان الله

May Allah give barakat in your life.

[EmpaccalGah]

dr.ati

i don't see what makes salafism so different to following a madhab
For example a hanafi follows a hanafi kitaab about salah and it has hadiths compiled therein and the shaykh who has compiled the kitaab has written that these are the most authentic hadith regarding salah.

The salafi follows the prayer book by Shaykh Albaani RH in which he has compiled the hadiths and has said this is the most authentic way

a layman makes taqleed in trusting the scholars opinion of which hadith is sahih and which is not as the science of hadith is not something anyone of us can just go and investigate without extensive study

but when a madhabi follows his shaykh its blind following but when a salafi follows his its not blind following

to me that is like saying..."They eat ice cream, we do not eat ice cream....we eat cream which is frozen...therefore we are different"

Sister you are right. The Ahli Hadiths have their own school and they follow it. Pure "Ghair Muqalidism" will be to send a person who has recently converted to Salafism home with Quran and Kutab e Sitta so that he can extract all the day to day rulings from them , instead of giving him books of Shaykh Albani rahumahullah on Salaat e Nabvi.
However , the issue is that which school is more near to Quran and Hadith and which school has deviated from it. I would suggest you to read "A'alam al-Moq'een" by Imam Ibn Qayyam rahimahullah to understand the issue in depth.The book has been translated into Urdu.

[EmpaccalGah]

It is also noteworthy that the Ahli Hadiths have major issues with Hanafi Fiqh which according to them is more based on Rayi' and Qayaas than Quran and Hadith and has taken some very weak positions in many Masaail. They seem to be fine with Shafi' and Hanbali Fiqh.

[rojettafoxx]

aoa,

sorry if this is a little off topic but i have some friends/ relatives whose following of their maslak raised my eyebrow. this is what they do:

- a hanafi who states that its okay to read al-fatihah behind imam in sirri prayers as he believes it should be recited because it keeps your concentration level and helps your mind not to wander when you are silent in sirri prayers.
- a hanafi who does rafa yadain and says its in sahih bukhari to do so. hence they will do it.
- a hanafi who offers witr as hanbalis do. two rakat then one rakat. says they prefer how its done in Makkah medinah

all of these people have one thing in common: they seem to think picking between maslaks on this particular one issue isnt prohibited. like they are hanafi for everything else but for the aforementioned three points they seem to think it is okay if one changes the maslak slightly. my question is, is this allowed?


if not, then what do you do to make them see their error?id like to help them rather than bash them

and it could be argued that all three acts are allowed in atleast one of the madhabs...i really have no answer to that. can someone knowledgeable help me out?Jazak Allah

[lE3l6Lgn]

so are they really ghair muqallids?

ghair muqallid in sense of not following any specific school.

[EmpaccalGah]

if not, then what do you do to make them see their error?id like to help them rather than bash them

May be they have turned into "Ghair Muqalid Hanafis"

[rojettafoxx]

May be they have turned into "Ghair Muqalid Hanafis"

well what can i do about them?what does the shariah say for those who mix maslaks?

[EmpaccalGah]

well what can i do about them?what does the shariah say for those who mix maslaks?

I think Maulana Abu Hajira will be the best person to shed some light on this issue.

[Noxassope]

Assalamu alaykum

Shaykh Ibn Tamiyyah RA, the famous jurist, says in his 'Fatawa':


"Some people follow at one time an imam who holds the marriage invalid, and at another time they follow a jurist who holds it valid. They do so only to serve their individual purpose and satisfy their desires. Such a practice is impermissible according to the consensus of all the imams."

He further elaborates the point by several examples when he says:

"For example if a person wants to pre-empt a sale he adopts the view of those who give the right of pre-emption to a contingent neighbour, but if they are the seller of a property, they refuse to accept the right of pre-emption for the neighbour of the seller (on the basis of Shafi'i view) . . . and if the relevant person claims that he did not know before (that Imam Shafi'i does not give the right of pre-emption to the neighbour) and has come to know it only then, and he wants to follow that view as from today, he will not be allowed to do so, because such a practice opens the door for playing with the rules of Shari'ah, and paves the path for deciding the halal and haram in accordance with one's desires."
(Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah Syrian ed. 2:285,286)

[Master_B]

taqlid means to follow an oppinion without knowing the proof. some hanafis are muqalid, some arent. some salafis are muqalid, some arent. only the serious scholars on both sides are mujtahids who derive ruling directly from the qur'an and sunnah. in general, salafis know the proofs for their oppinions more than hanafis although hanafis are now countering this more and learning the proof for their madhab in books such as fiqh al imam. wallahu a'lam

[Noxassope]

Assalamu alaykum

taqlid means to follow an oppinion without knowing the proof. some hanafis are muqalid, some arent. some salafis are muqalid, some arent. only the serious scholars on both sides are mujtahids who derive ruling directly from the qur'an and sunnah. in general, salafis know the proofs for their oppinions more than hanafis although hanafis are now countering this more and learning the proof for their madhab in books such as fiqh al imam. wallahu a'lam in general, salafis know the proofs for their oppinions more than hanafis although hanafis Can any salafi member honestly tell us how many opinions have they derived till now with proofs?. 10 or 20 or 100.

We hanafees have received atleast 12,90,000 masail from Imam Abu Haneefa, and without proofs.

[Master_B]

the whole point of this thread is that salafi members dont derive any rulings. they follow their scholars, however they look at the evidences of their scholar so it isnt considered taqleed its consdered ittiba. many hanafis also do this and can tell you the proof of their madhab for many issues

[Noxassope]

Assalamu alaykum

however they look at the evidences of their scholar OK, how many evidences did they look at till now?

[Master_B]

bro, that would obviously differ form person to person. for example if one studies ummdatul ahkaam then he has looked at quite a large number of hadeeths and their derived rulings. however if one is a layman who reads a few online articles then probabily they know a few proofs for rafa al yadain, 8 rak'ah etc

[Master_B]

look atthis book by shaikh ibn baz for an example of how fiqh is taught with evidences from a scholar:

http://thedeenshow.com/newmuslims.php?id=46