[22paseabelldaps]

As salaam alaikum wa rahmatullah,

I have always felt doubt regarding one's Tahaarah if using a western style toilet. For example when one urinates it can easily splash on to your inner thigh and if doing a number 2 the water can splash up if you drop a big one.

Is it sufficient to use water and tissue to clean oneself? Or must one then go and wash his inner thigh and backside cheeks to clear any possibility of splashing water having reached those areas? Or am I being too cautious?

[Uhmavano]

no i dont think you would be being too cautious, when i do istinja i wash any part of me that was exposed to the basin if that makes sense. so frequently i end up washing the inside of the thighs and the buttocks.

one thing which i have noticed in alot of western toilets is that there are often several drops of urine which are on the floor directly in front of the toilet. this comes from people standing and urinating and sometimes drops will fall onto the floor around the toilet basin. my way of overcoming this has been to fold up the trousers/jean till they are till my knees and then hold them taut betweeny legs.

anyone else have any tips regarding taharah in the bathroom/westrn toilets?

[Larisochka]

Wa 'alaykum us-salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Also, if one doesn't have a plastic bottle (or anything else usable as a water container) one can make a fairly big "ball" out of toilet paper and fill it with water. Two or more of such "water balls" should suffice most needs. To expel the water one merely squeezes the water ball gently.

[kanchouska]

As salaam alaikum wa rahmatullah,

I have always felt doubt regarding one's Tahaarah if using a western style toilet. For example when one urinates it can easily splash on to your inner thigh and if doing a number 2 the water can splash up if you drop a big one.

Is it sufficient to use water and tissue to clean oneself? Or must one then go and wash his inner thigh and backside cheeks to clear any possibility of splashing water having reached those areas? Or am I being too cautious?

Before using a Western style Toilet its a good idea to throw Toilet Paper in there so STOP the splash back from spoiling you. I always do that as a matter of course at home or away.

[Xcqjwarl]

Before using a Western style Toilet its a good idea to throw Toilet Paper in there so STOP the splash back from spoiling you. I always do that as a matter of course at home or away.

That's is THE only way to overcome this problem.

In my house we go through 40 rolls of toilet paper a month. All in an effort to stay paak.

I do this at work too

Yous just can't leave the bowl empty. Even when doing istinja the washed off water wil still spill back

[Pelefaifs]

We've been using western toilets so much, it's now become an art. (sigh)

put layers of tissue in the toilet, enough to prevent splashing and not too much to clog the drain.

Washing off the toilet seat with soap and water before using it if you use a public toilet.

Like what was mentioned above, making sure nothing splashes at you while making istinjaa (flushing right after minimizes the splashing of najaasah).

I'd say the hardest one in public is letting others use the toilet first so that they don't get frustrated wondering why a Muslim takes so long in the bathroom.

We seriously need to get some of those sunnah style ones.......so much mujaahadah.

[adoreorerie]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

I seem to have mastered the art of squatting over the years. Like this.

[InsManKV]

Actually it is possible to squat on Western toilets, but you should train (in dry state) before hand, lest you fall down while actually using them...

I know a brother who actually NEVER uses any toilet except his own toilet at home, even if it means not going to toilet for several days when traveling. I don't know how he manages to do so but he's not making anything up since other people confirmed lol...

[adoreorerie]

Actually it is possible to squat on Western toilets, but you should train (dry) before hand, lest you fall down while actually using the toilets...

Waaleykum'Assalaam!

Yes! It is not a rocket science. One just needs to be good at balancing skills. As a starter one can take support of the door knob, tap or wall and there would come a time when you wouldn't require them at all. With practice comes perfection.

Assalaama'aaleykum!

[ananciguinter]

As salaam alaikum wa rahmatullah,
For example when one urinates it can easily splash on to your inner thigh and if doing a number 2 the water can splash up if you drop a big one.

I have always asked myself if the ghusl of someone is broken if such a situation happens.

Anyone knows?

[dwestemesse]

A few general statements before I comment on the discussion of this post.

Guys...my job is to make things easy for you...so it won't harm you if you showed some love this way : )

Brother Mospike, you use 40 rolls of toilet paper in a month?! Wait...maybe that's because you have a large family or that the toilet rolls in South Africa are really small or the plies are less than in other places or whatever. But I'm quite surprised with that number. Unless you are taking the Chilla and the number 40 too literally. i.e. The effects of 40 days in spiritual solitude whilst out in Jamat can never be achieved in 35 days so for a true spiritual reformation, 40 days is a must. Similarly, if a person wants to be really clean physically, 40 toilet rolls is a must.

Other than that...I would request Brother Abu Hajirah to not hijack this thread with useless arguments and waste my time.

That being said.... Here are my comments on this issue:

Along with everything what has been said on this topic, let me add a few more points to this discussion:

1) Urine (and the water that it falls into) is considered to be Najasat Ghalizah. The ruling for Najasate Ghalizah falling on the body and clothes is that:

A) If it is more than one dirham, then Salat is not permissible in this state and it's Fardh to wash it off.

B) If the Najasate Ghalizah is the amount of one dirham in diameter, then it's Wajib to wash it off and if a person performs Salah without washing it off, then it's Wajibul E'adah and it must be repeated and it’s Makrooh Tahreemee.

C) If it is less than one dirham in diameter, then it is Sunnah to wash it off and Salat will be accepted if a person performs prayer with this amount of Najasah on the body. But it is against the Sunnah to perform prayers in the condition that a person has less than a dirham's diameter of Najasah Ghalizah on the body or clothes and it's better to repeat it though not necessary and this category is termed as: Makrooh Tanzihi.

The next question is: What is the diameter of a dirham? And how do we work out the diameter of a dirham? The scholars of Islam say that the way to find out the diameter of a dirham is by doing the following:

Fully open and stretch out the palm and whilst at it, stretch out the fingers as well. Then slowly pour water into the palm and whatever water remains on the palm, that is the diameter of a dirham.

So I guess, each person's diameter of a dirham will be according to their own palm size. In the Urdu fiqh books, we read that the diameter of a dirham is about the size of a Pakistani Rupee (the old one) or the Indian Rupee. The diameter of an Indian Rupee is about 25 mm. I just practically tried the above method and it seems that it's a bit more than the diameter of an Indo/Pak rupee. I would say that at a minimum a dirham would be more than the diameter of Canadian two dollar coin which is about 28 mm in diameter.

Well...Whatever the case....Any Najasah Ghaleezah less than the diameter of a dirham is excused. The next question is: After gathering all the splashes which reach the body or the clothes (after taking due caution), does it reach Qadr dirham or not? I personally feel that most likely it will not reach the diameter of a Dirham. If it doesn't, then it's all good and you don’t need to really worry about this issue

On Sunnipath, they've mentioned in one place the dirmham to be of 6 cm diameter and at another place the dirham to be 6 cm radius. We know that the diameter is twice the radius. So are they trying to say that the diameter of a dirham is 12 cm? I guess the radius part must be a typo. But still, a dirham of 6 cm diameter is quite huge IMHO.

Personally, I have my timings set when I want to defecate. Once I'm done, I clean myself in the toilet bowl and then jump into the shower. After taking a shower, a person is as some people say, "As clean as a whistle." So if you have a western style toilet at home, then time your defecation so that it coincides with your shower time. In brief...defecate...then take a shower. I have my own secret method of urinating which I'm too shy to share with you all here. If you really want to know…call me yo or email me

So to sum up the above points: Don't worry extensively about urine splashes because most likely they are less than a dirham (and needle-head size drops are forgiven anyway). Use Asian style toilets as much as possible and if not, then try your best to time your defecation times with shower timings. We know through the Hadiths that it's important to stay clean and be cautious about urine drops and a person was being punished solely for the reason that the person wasn't cautious. So it's important that we take all the necessary measures to make sure that urine drops don't fall on us.

Request for Duas in these last few days of Ramadhan.

[kanchouska]

A few general statements before I comment on the discussion of this post.

Guys...my job is to make things easy for you...so it won't harm you if you showed some love this way : )

Brother Mospike, you use 40 rolls of toilet paper in a month?! Wait...maybe that's because you have a large family or that the toilet rolls in South Africa are really small or the plies are less than in other places or whatever. But I'm quite surprised with that number. Unless you are taking the Chilla and the number 40 too literally. i.e. The effects of 40 days in spiritual solitude whilst out in Jamat can never be achieved in 35 days so for a true spiritual reformation, 40 days is a must. Similarly, if a person wants to be really clean physically, 40 toilet rolls is a must.

Other than that...I would request Brother Abu Hajirah to not hijack this thread with useless arguments and waste my time.

That being said.... Here are my comments on this issue:

Along with everything what has been said on this topic, let me add a few more points to this discussion:

1) Urine (and the water that it falls into) is considered to be Najasat Ghalizah. The ruling for Najasate Ghalizah falling on the body and clothes is that:

A) If it is more than one dirham, then Salat is not permissible in this state and it's Fardh to wash it off.

B) If the Najasate Ghalizah is the amount of one dirham in diameter, then it's Wajib to wash it off and if a person performs Salah without washing it off, then it's Wajibul E'adah and it must be repeated and it’s Makrooh Tahreemee.

C) If it is less than one dirham in diameter, then it is Sunnah to wash it off and Salat will be accepted if a person performs prayer with this amount of Najasah on the body. But it is against the Sunnah to perform prayers in the condition that a person has less than a dirham's diameter of Najasah Ghalizah on the body or clothes and it's better to repeat it though not necessary and this category is termed as: Makrooh Tanzihi.

The next question is: What is the diameter of a dirham? And how do we work out the diameter of a dirham? The scholars of Islam say that the way to find out the diameter of a dirham is by doing the following:

Fully open and stretch out the palm and whilst at it, stretch out the fingers as well. Then slowly pour water into the palm and whatever water remains on the palm, that is the diameter of a dirham.

So I guess, each person's diameter of a dirham will be according to their own palm size. In the Urdu fiqh books, we read that the diameter of a dirham is about the size of a Pakistani Rupee (the old one) or the Indian Rupee. The diameter of an Indian Rupee is about 25 mm. I just practically tried the above method and it seems that it's a bit more than the diameter of an Indo/Pak rupee. I would say that at a minimum a dirham would be more than the diameter of Canadian two dollar coin which is about 28 mm in diameter.

Well...Whatever the case....Any Najasah Ghaleezah less than the diameter of a dirham is excused. The next question is: After gathering all the splashes which reach the body or the clothes (after taking due caution), does it reach Qadr dirham or not? I personally feel that most likely it will not reach the diameter of a Dirham. If it doesn't, then it's all good and you don’t need to really worry about this issue

On Sunnipath, they've mentioned in one place the dirmham to be of 6 cm diameter and at another place the dirham to be 6 cm radius. We know that the diameter is twice the radius. So are they trying to say that the diameter of a dirham is 12 cm? I guess the radius part must be a typo. But still, a dirham of 6 cm diameter is quite huge IMHO.

Personally, I have my timings set when I want to defecate. Once I'm done, I clean myself in the toilet bowl and then jump into the shower. After taking a shower, a person is as some people say, "As clean as a whistle." So if you have a western style toilet at home, then time your defecation so that it coincides with your shower time. In brief...defecate...then take a shower. I have my own secret method of urinating which I'm too shy to share with you all here. If you really want to know…call me yo or email me

So to sum up the above points: Don't worry extensively about urine splashes because most likely they are less than a dirham (and needle-head size drops are forgiven anyway). Use Asian style toilets as much as possible and if not, then try your best to time your defecation times with shower timings. We know through the Hadiths that it's important to stay clean and be cautious about urine drops and a person was being punished solely for the reason that the person wasn't cautious. So it's important that we take all the necessary measures to make sure that urine drops don't fall on us.

Request for Duas in these last few days of Ramadhan.

Maulana,

I LOVE YOU FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH (SWT)

Even though you have weird toilet habits.

[Pelefaifs]

I just had a couple questions from reading bro Antivirus's post in connection to bro Abu Zaid's post. Maybe I understood wrong but here goes:

Isn't relieving oneself while making ghusl (or in the place of ghusl)makrooh? Or if someone stood and relieved himself during ghusl, wouldn't that be like double makrooh.

The effects of 40 days in spiritual solitude whilst out in Jamat can never be achieved in 35 days so for a true spiritual reformation, 40 days is a must. Similarly, if a person wants to be really clean physically, 40 toilet rolls is a must.

[dwestemesse]

Maulana,

I LOVE YOU FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH (SWT)

Even though you have weird toilet habits.

أحبك الذي أحببتني فيه

Oh come on bro....why you gotta say that to me? You hurt my feelings. : ) I only take a shower after defecating and cleaning myself in the toilet to make sure that I am clean and Paak. It doesn't have to be a long shower. A couple of minutes is more than enough. That's better than all that toilet paper going down the toilet. My method is 'greener' than yours. : )

[dwestemesse]

I have always asked myself if the ghusl of someone is broken if such a situation happens.

Anyone knows?

You don't have to take a shower if that happens and your Ghusl is not broken. That's not one of the reasons for Ghusl becoming necessary. Depending how much is on the body, the important thing is that it has to be removed and cleansed.

[kanchouska]

أحبك الذي أحببتني فيه

Oh come on bro....why you gotta say that to me? You hurt my feelings. : ) I only take a shower after defecating and cleaning myself in the toilet to make sure that I am clean and Paak. It doesn't have to be a long shower. A couple of minutes is more than enough. That's better than all that toilet paper going down the toilet. My method is 'greener' than yours. : )

Maulana,

Do you use a shampoo/conditioner during the shower for the hair because excessive water dries out the moisture in the hair and will cause male pattern baldness...

Just wanna warn ya...

You may be clean but you may not much hair left...

[dwestemesse]

I just had a couple questions from reading bro Antivirus's post in connection to bro Abu Zaid's post. Maybe I understood wrong but here goes:

Isn't relieving oneself while making ghusl (or in the place of ghusl)makrooh? Or if someone stood and relieved himself during ghusl, wouldn't that be like double makrooh.

It's makrooh if the water collects there and it doesn't drain away. Usually, in normal showers, the water drains away so it should be fine. If the water does not drain properly, then it would be makrooh to take a shower in the place of urination.

It's makrooh to urinate standing up unless there is a valid reason to stand up.

[dwestemesse]

Maulana,

Do you use a shampoo/conditioner during the shower for the hair because excessive water dries out the moisture in the hair and will cause male pattern baldness...

Just wanna warn ya...

You may be clean but you may not much hair left...

You don't have to wash the whole body and take a shower from head to toe. You just need to make sure that the places where the drops usually fall is washed and rinsed properly.

As far as shampoos, you know very well that we males just barely get through using soap and as far as using a shampoo goes, that's just reserved for the special days like Eid and stuff. just kidding.

[Pelefaifs]

It's makrooh if the water collects there and it doesn't drain away. Usually, in normal showers, the water drains away so it should be fine. If the water does not drain properly, then it would be makrooh to take a shower in the place of urination.

It's makrooh to urinate standing up unless there is a valid reason to stand up.

Maulana Sahib. This gives context to how some places have the shower and toilets together in the same space and use a wooden board to cover the toilet whole when taking a shower.


Cool stuff, I'll go to sleep now.

[attractiveweb]

I have my own secret method of urinating which I'm too shy to share with you all here. If you really want to know…call me yo or email me

salams

eTeacher,you are so cool(and clean).
please can the mods pass my email to eteacher or if i can pass it him(don't know if i can put it on here)
(or eTeacher if you can pass your email via somehow).
i would love to know the the "secret method".
its ok when you are at home and you can jump into the shower if splashing occurs but i try and control my diet when i'm travelling because public toilets eg airports etc can be dirty sometimes.
my question is when one is splashed by urine (more than dirham) and not in a position to wash it off ie on travels etc, is it ok to wipe it off with a wet tissue or baby wipe,will that make that body part paak?