[Itrtuawh]

The best advice I know regarding 'life and death' is to the take the Shariah ruling on the definition of 'death'.

That is: the senses determination of the absence of the ruh in the body. This is understood to mean that by using our senses, we can observe combined signs of "life": breathing, continued regeneration of cells in skin, hair, muscles, blood, etc, sense electrical current in the heart, sense brain activity, etc.

The absence of these combined signs of life as a result of the removal of the ruh are how we indicate death. Thus, the body which is absent these signs for what some fuqaha consider a reasonable timespan, is evidence of death.

This is more definitive than the medical definition of death which usually is based on the absence or just the lowering of heartrate to below a certain level (a portion of the heart can maintain an electrical current even after the heart stops beating), and just diminshed brain activity.

The Shariah definition of death - the absence of the ruh in the body- is how we SHOULD address death. From this, we implement Shariah by distributing inheritance, praying janazah, applying will, initiating iddah, ending marital rights, etc. All of this applied to the Prophet (saaw) as implemented by the sahaba (rah). Thus, the Prophet (saaw) died according to Shariah. It is a requirement to believe this, as the Sahaba (rahm) did.
No sahabi contested this and all followed this.


However, the state of 'death' of the Prophet (saaw) is not like the state of the rest of us. Just as the state of death of the shuhada is not like the state of death of the average one who died. But that does NOT mean they have not experienced death as the Shariah defines it.

And Allah knows best.

[pymnConyelell]

Salam

if i can recall correctly a scholar i know once said that rasulullah did indeed retire from his worldy life (i.e. a life like ours) but in his grave he has a different sort of life. a "heavenly life" in the sense that he makes ibadat of allah from his grave.

[Liaiskelile]

The best advice I know regarding 'life and death' is to the take the Shariah ruling on the definition of 'death'.

That is: the senses determination of the absence of the ruh in the body. This is understood to mean that by using our senses, we can observe combined signs of "life": breathing, continued regeneration of cells in skin, hair, muscles, blood, etc, sense electrical current in the heart, sense brain activity, etc.

The absence of these combined signs of life as a result of the removal of the ruh are how we indicate death. Thus, the body which is absent these signs for what some fuqaha consider a reasonable timespan, is evidence of death.

This is more definitive than the medical definition of death which usually is based on the absence or just the lowering of heartrate to below a certain level (a portion of the heart can maintain an electrical current even after the heart stops beating), and just diminshed brain activity.

The Shariah definition of death - the absence of the ruh in the body- is how we SHOULD address death. From this, we implement Shariah by distributing inheritance, praying janazah, applying will, initiating iddah, ending marital rights, etc. All of this applied to the Prophet (saaw) as implemented by the sahaba (rah). Thus, the Prophet (saaw) died according to Shariah. It is a requirement to believe this, as the Sahaba (rahm) did.
No sahabi contested this and all followed this.


However, the state of 'death' of the Prophet (saaw) is not like the state of the rest of us. Just as the state of death of the shuhada is not like the state of death of the average one who died. But that does NOT mean they have not experienced death as the Shariah defines it.

And Allah knows best.

i agree with you hundred percent. this is indeed the best explanation. Jazak Allah

[Liaiskelile]

Salam

if i can recall correctly a scholar i know once said that rasulullah did indeed retire from his worldy life (i.e. a life like ours) but in his grave he has a different sort of life. a "heavenly life" in the sense that he makes ibadat of allah from his grave.

yes brother that is what we were discussing in this thread that the scholar is right on the first instance but on the second instance he is not. because the second instance we 'do not know'.it is not enough to just say 'he is alive in his grave'. Allah (SWT) knows about his, the other Prophets' and the martyrs' life after their passing away .we do not

[SodeSceriobia]

here is the link again. i dunno why it wasnt working:s

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1681&CATE=108

Are the Prophets Alive in Their Graves?

Answered by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

The belief (Aqidah) of the mainstream Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah is that our beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and all the other Prophets are alive in their graves.

This life is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah), and not just a spiritual one with the soul (barzakhiyyah), as the latter is common for all the people.



I thought the deobandi (and salafi for that matter) position was that the Prophet saw is NOT alive in this world? Does Mufti ibn Adam's (who is a deobandi) fatwa above go against the mainstream deobandi view?

Also, is it it forbidden to pray behind someone who believes the Prophet is physically alive in his grave?

[Lipitorseffec]

Are the Prophets Alive in Their Graves?

Answered by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

The belief (Aqidah) of the mainstream Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah is that our beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and all the other Prophets are alive in their graves.

This life is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah), and not just a spiritual one with the soul (barzakhiyyah), as the latter is common for all the people.



I thought the deobandi (and salafi for that matter) position was that the Prophet saw is NOT alive in this world? Does Mufti ibn Adam's (who is a deobandi) fatwa above go against the mainstream deobandi view?

Also, is it it forbidden to pray behind someone who believes the Prophet is physically alive in his grave?

Mufti Ibn Adam's fatwa shows the exact aqeedah of deobandis. Rasoolullah (SAWW) is physically alive in his Qabr-e-Mubarak with Jasad-e-Ansari.

I have the writings of over seventy top deobandi ulema, who have the exact same aqeedah as the one above.

And who told you that it is forbidden to pray behind a person with this aqeedah? Infact it is forbidden to pray behind a Mamaati (a person who negates Rasoolullah's physical life) according to deobandi akaabir.

[nithhysfusy]

Here is the Deobandi belief about life of Sayyidna Muhammad sws in his grave.

"Hamaray Nazdeek aur Hamaray Mashaikh kay Nazdeek Hadhrat Muhammad sws apni Qabar Mubarik main zinda hain aur aap ki Hayat Dunya ki si hay Bila Mukalaf honay kay aur ye Hayat Mekhsoos hay Tamam Anbiyaa aur Shuhada kay Saath aur ye Barzakhi nahi hay jo Tammam musalmano aur Aam Admiyo ko Hasil hay" (Al-MUhannad Alal Mufanad , 33)

Rough translation.
" In our view , Sayyidna Muhammad is alive in his grave and his life is like the worldly life (As he was alive in the world). Such life is specified for for the Prophets and Martyrs and it is not barzakhi which is for every Muslim , even every human"


Here is a fatwa from Jamia Banoria about the person who thinks that Sayyidna Muhammad sws is alive in Barzakhi sense.



"Sayyidna Muhammad sws is alive in the grave as he was alive in the world. Anyone who reads Darood at your grave is heard by Sayyidna Muhammad sws and anyone who believes otherwise is out of Ahli Sunnah Wal Jamma' and he is a Mubtadi. Praying behind him is makrooh"

[Lolita Palmer]

Here is the Deobandi belief about life of Sayyidna Muhammad sws in his grave.

"Hamaray Nazdeek aur Hamaray Mashaikh kay Nazdeek Hadhrat Muhammad sws apni Qabar Mubarik main zinda hain aur aap ki Hayat Dunya ki si hay Bila Mukalaf honay kay aur ye Hayat Mekhsoos hay Tamam Anbiyaa aur Shuhada kay Saath aur ye Barzakhi nahi hay jo Tammam musalmano aur Aam Admiyo ko Hasil hay" (Al-MUhannad Alal Mufanad , 33)

Rough translation.
" In our view , Sayyidna Muhammad is alive in his grave and his life is like the worldly life (As he was alive in the world). Such life is specified for for the Prophets and Martyrs and it is not barzakhi which is for every Muslim , even every human"


Here is a fatwa from Jamia Banoria about the person who thinks that Sayyidna Muhammad sws is alive in Barzakhi sense.



"Sayyidna Muhammad sws is alive in the grave as he was alive in the world. Anyone who reads Darood at your grave is heard by Sayyidna Muhammad sws and anyone who believes otherwise is out of Ahli Sunnah Wal Jamma' and he is a Mubtadi. Praying behind him is makrooh"

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/alive.htm

Shaykh (Mufti) Ibraheem Desai (HA) says:

The question that now arises is, what is the meaning of them being alive? Mufti Shafi (RA) commentating on this verse in his Ma’ariful Qur’aan explains, ‘It is well known that from the Islamic viewpoint, every dead person has a special type of life in Barzakh through which he experiences either punishment or enjoyment. However, there are different levels in this life. There is the level which is general for all, and there are special levels for the Ambiyaa, the martyrs and the pious. With regards to the reality of those levels, the best explanation is given by Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) in his Bayaanul Qur’aan.

Shaykh (Mufti) Nawalur-Rahmaan (HA) also says the same in Urdu:

http://www.shariahboard.net/

In fact he says that those who believe that Rasul-ullah is alive in real life are "absurd" because they should dig him out of the grave.

Most Ulama in the West believe that Rasul-ullah is alive in Barzakh and I don't know what Hayati/Mamati business is but take it up with Shaykh (Mufti) Ibraheem Desai (HA) and other Deobandi Ulama.

[SodeSceriobia]

Mufti Ibn Adam's fatwa shows the exact aqeedah of deobandis. Rasoolullah (SAWW) is physically alive in his Qabr-e-Mubarak with Jasad-e-Ansari.

I have the writings of over seventy top deobandi ulema, who have the exact same aqeedah as the one above.

And who told you that it is forbidden to pray behind a person with this aqeedah? Infact it is forbidden to pray behind a Mamaati (a person who negates Rasoolullah's physical life) according to deobandi akaabir.

Sorry, seems I got confused. Who exactly falls under Mamaati then, salafis/ahle hadith?

[SodeSceriobia]

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/alive.htm

Shaykh (Mufti) Ibraheem Desai (HA) says:

The question that now arises is, what is the meaning of them being alive? Mufti Shafi (RA) commentating on this verse in his Ma’ariful Qur’aan explains, ‘It is well known that from the Islamic viewpoint, every dead person has a special type of life in Barzakh through which he experiences either punishment or enjoyment. However, there are different levels in this life. There is the level which is general for all, and there are special levels for the Ambiyaa, the martyrs and the pious. With regards to the reality of those levels, the best explanation is given by Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) in his Bayaanul Qur’aan.

Shaykh (Mufti) Nawalur-Rahmaan (HA) also says the same in Urdu:

http://www.shariahboard.net/

In fact he says that those who believe that Rasul-ullah is alive in real life are "absurd" because they should dig him out of the grave.

Most Ulama in the West believe that Rasul-ullah is alive in Barzakh and I don't know what Hayati/Mamati business is but take it up with Shaykh (Mufti) Ibraheem Desai (HA) and other Deobandi Ulama.

So basically is everyone saying the same thing? That yes the Prophet saw is alive in this world, but not in the way we know it i.e. breathing, moving etc. but in a different way that is known best by Allah?

If so, why is there such a fuss over this topic?

Do brelevis and salafis have different viewpoints?

[Lolita Palmer]

So basically is everyone saying the same thing? That yes the Prophet saw is alive in this world, but not in the way we know it i.e. breathing, moving etc. but in a different way that is known best by Allah?

If so, why is there such a fuss over this topic?

Do brelevis and salafis have different viewpoints?

There are two view points:

1. Rasul-ullah is alive in Barzakh
2. Rasul-ullah is alive in real life sense like he was in Dunya

Thats what I think...I don't know the fuss either because there are many Ulama of the past who have kept either position.

[topbonusescod]

What I heard from a scholar bayaan that the Prophet is alive in the grave with he's dunaywi(wordly) body but he's life is different in the grave from he's worldly life.

[nithhysfusy]

The traditional Deobandi view regarding the life of Sayyidna Muhammad sws has been stated in Al-muhannad Alal Mufannad. There has been NO Deobandi Alim who believed in the Barzakhi life for Sayyidna Muhammad sws , negating the Dunyawi Hayat. Reading this section of Haqforum will be beneficial http://www.haqqforum.com/vb/showthre...htalaf-section .
For those who want to have an indepth grasp of the issue , then they should read "Taskeen us sudoor" by Allama Sarfaraz khan Safdar ra.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post270753

[Liaiskelile]

So basically is everyone saying the same thing? That yes the Prophet saw is alive in this world, but not in the way we know it i.e. breathing, moving etc. but in a different way that is known best by Allah?

If so, why is there such a fuss over this topic?

Do brelevis and salafis have different viewpoints?

you reached the jugular brother. the fuss arises however when people exploit Hayat un Nabwi (SAW) to perform shirk and bid'ah.

[Lipitorseffec]

There is no fuss over this topic. The aqeedah of ours and our akabir is crystal clear.

Rasoolullah (SAWW) is physically alive in his Qabr-e-Mubarak. Anyone who denies this is out of the fold of AhleSunnahWalJamaah. For extensive research into this topic, read the books on Hayat-un-Nabi (SAWW) by Hazrat Maulana Sarfaraz Khan Safdar (RA). Hazrat has proved the aqeedah from tons of references. Wasting time on an internet forum won't help.

Recently a book in Pakistan has been published. It has the writings/fataawas of almost ALL the deobandi akabireen (both present and past). It has been categorically mentioned by Hazrat Khawaja Khan Muhammad (RA) and Maulana Saleemullah Khan (DB) (two of the senior most ulema of the last 50 years), that a Mamaati {who denies the physical life (burzakhi life is out of question, burzakhi life is even present for a sinful person) of Rasoolullah SAWW} is out of the fold of AhleSunnahWalJamaah and prayer behind him is not allowed.

[propolo]

There are two view points:

1. Rasul-ullah is alive in Barzakh
2. Rasul-ullah is alive in real life sense like he was in Dunya

Thats what I think...I don't know the fuss either because there are many Ulama of the past who have kept either position.

salaam brother. Your a brother who talks straight and talks sense. Is there one deobandi position on these two points or do the deobandi scholars differ?

Btw, to those who wish to know the salafi position, its as the brother colonel hardstone mentioned, he is alive in the barzak but not physically alive in this worl meaning his limbs and organs and do on and so forth arent moving. He lays their silently, undecomposed, while he is in the barzak, alive and doing the things affirmed for him in tthe hadeeth like praying.

To those who disagree, in what way is he physcially alive? Like many situations, your saying the same thing as salafis with different terms, but u dont beleive hrs physically alive i.e. Breathing etc right? I dont see a difference except terminology

[nithhysfusy]

^ The point number 2 mentioned by Colonel is his independent position not the Deobandi position. The Deobandi position is explained here and there is also a fatwa from a prominent Deobandi institute against the person who hold position number 2. http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post639556