Ibn Arabi & Mansur Hallaj - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**bestworkothlo** · 10-05-2010, 08:38 PM

Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers .
Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers?

**RokgroofeTeme** · 10-05-2010, 11:22 PM

Burhanudhin Ibrahim ibn Umar al-Biqaii al Shafii(d.885.AH), a scholar of Tafsir and Hadith had accused them of Kufr but in fact he had been in turn refuted by Imam Jalaludin al-Suyuti(Rah)(d.911..AH), another prominent shafii scholar of repute .[Ref:Shadaratu Zahab by Ibnul Imad al-Hanbali]

**anolbom** · 10-05-2010, 11:32 PM

Assalamualykum

Good info on Ibn Arabi (rah)

http://www.sulook.org/jsp/biographie..._Ibn_Arabi.pdf

**BenWired306** · 10-05-2010, 11:55 PM

Salamun 'alaykum,

Some scholars, especially those Dhahiri scholars(NOT referring to the Fiqhi school) not trained in the inner sciences(tasawwuf), made Takfir of them. The majority of the Sufiyah have praised them, especially Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn 'Arabi (rahmatu'Allahi 'alayh). His legacy is to be found especially in the Shathili Tariqa.

**TheBestCheapestOEM** · 10-06-2010, 03:58 AM

Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars.

**Petrushkaukrop** · 10-06-2010, 04:06 AM

Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars.

What!?!?! You sure? Im pretty sure they dont.

IIRC, In Aap Beti, Shakh Zakariya quotes a book of Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanawi

, where he is quoting Mawlana Qasim Nanautawi

on the explanation of al-Hallaj's actions. That's Imam Qasim Nanautawi, Hakimul-Ummah and Hadrat Shaykh

. Surely their views represent the scholars of Deoband.....

**cxddfrxc** · 10-06-2010, 04:11 AM

AOA,

bro taalib_e_ilm, i read the pdf link tht u gave.......but thr was something tht made me to stop reading it and first search the whole site for who is mainting the site.....in one of the pages of the pdf thr is mentioned "Mawla Ali AS"......did u get it.....and the site is run by some qadiri-akbari tariq......while i have heard tht qadiri tariqa is not a famous one among most of the muslims.....becuz of their dodgy aqedah.....

anyways.....ive heard abt the things which are said related to the 2 persons mentioned....all i can say is tht we shud leave it to Allah.....leave it as mutashabihat.....dont make judgements......worry abt ur own self.....Allah will ask abt YOU on YOUR judgement day.....so we shud all get ready for tht........

Wallah Ho Allam

Jazak Allah,
Saad

**BenWired306** · 10-06-2010, 04:12 AM

I would like to add something about Al-Hallaj. While some giants of Ahlus Sunnah have said that he was a Wali (Ibn Hajr al-Haytami and others), we must also remember that it was his former teacher and murshid, Al-Imam Junayd Al-Baghdadiy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu) who judged upon the Dhahir and officiated the execution of Al-Hallaj. We are followers of the Junaydi Path. Yet the Sane teaches the Fool and vice versa. And there is a lot of depth in this saying for those who reflect.

**BenWired306** · 10-06-2010, 04:17 AM

srqureshi

The Qadiri tariqa is without a doubt from the well known turuq. It is accepted worldwide and it got its name from Shaykh 'Abdul Qader al-Jilaniy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu).

**LasTins** · 10-06-2010, 04:22 AM

srqureshi

The Qadiri tariqa is without a doubt from the well known turuq. It is accepted worldwide and it got its name from Shaykh 'Abdul Qader al-Jilaniy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu).

Yeah I was gonna say...

Dodgy Aqidah?? Unknown Tariq??

**TheBestCheapestOEM** · 10-06-2010, 04:29 AM

What!?!?! You sure? Im pretty sure they dont.

IIRC, In Aap Beti, Shakh Zakariya quotes a book of Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanawi , where he is quoting Mawlana Qasim Nanautawi on the explanation of al-Hallaj's actions. That's Imam Qasim Nanautawi, Hakimul-Ummah and Hadrat Shaykh . Surely their views represent the scholars of Deoband.....

The explanation is the explanation of the process by which one falls off the path. Understanding why and how something happened is different from considering it right. So think deep and ponder.

**cxddfrxc** · 10-06-2010, 04:31 AM

AOA,

Bro Rifai,

please accept my apologies....i mixed it with somethign else......my mistake.......

Jazak Allah for correcting me.......

Saad

**Petrushkaukrop** · 10-06-2010, 04:37 AM

The explanation is the explanation of the process by which one falls off the path. Understanding why and how something happened is different from considering it right. So think deep and ponder.

Yes, but have they called him a kafir?? The words in Aap Beti certainly dont seem to suggest that. Can you give any quotes

**Buyemae** · 10-06-2010, 06:03 AM

Not to start about sheikh ibn arabi, but no deobandi scholar i am aware of advocates 'all' his teachings. The controversial issues he raised have been refuted by ulema e deoband. Refuted with respect, they say he erred in his understanding.

As far as I am aware 'all' deobandi scholars advise to stay away from reading sheikh ibn arabi's books if you are a layman.

There are certain beliefs thats sheikh ibn arabi held that are outright wrong, one is the term 'withaal', which is a word in urdu. Sheikh Ibn arabi was of the belief that the soul of the Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam would reunite with Allah after his demise, but that is incorrect because Allah is wahid, one, and he has no partner. Our ulema e deoband seem to have used the term 'withaal' also in many books but they used it without understanding the history behind the term withaal, the word comes from Sheikh Ibn Arabi's maslak and I was told that it is wrong. If you wish to know more please consult a mufti who is well versed in aqeedah.

With regards to Manur al Hallaj, then as far as i know no deobandi scholar (at least on paper) calls him a kafir. If anything the deobandi scholars who are well versed in tassawuf always try to justify his actions. I believe there was something written about Mianji Nurmuhammad Jhinjanvi (Sheikh of Haji saheb) that he also went through the same as Mansur al Hallaj but he didnt say a word and continued like that for a period of 6 months. What Mansur al Hallaj went through was a state.

**Flefebleaft** · 10-06-2010, 06:25 AM

Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers .
Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers? This is a lie propogated by many "traditionalists", especially Nuh Keller, and Ibn Taymiyyah isn't the only one who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi as there are hundreds of classical ulama from the Sufis and Ash'aris who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi as mentioned byAl-Biqa'i, Taqiyyuddeen al-Fasi, and others.

Some scholars, especially those Dhahiri scholars(NOT referring to the Fiqhi school) not trained in the inner sciences(tasawwuf), made Takfir of them. Stop lying and the majority of those who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi weren't Dhahiri. Nut surprising coming from the Ahbash who consider Hafez al-Asad a great "Muslim" while making takfeer of Ibn Taymiyyah.

**Enrivaanonock** · 10-06-2010, 11:59 AM

Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars.

Do you have any proof that this is the Deobandi position?

**KitRittyTug** · 10-06-2010, 02:10 PM

Assalamualikum wmwbt
Regarding Sheikh Ibn-e-Arabi ru scholars advise not to go through his books because there are certain terminologies which u might not understand or take the meaning which wasnt supposed by Sheikh.
About Mansur Hallaj i dont have a fatwa but yes i went to meet a aalim and he used respectable words for Mansur Hallaj.

Regarding Ibn-e-tayymiah ru making takfir of such scholars,he was a bit mutashaddid and so are the present day salafis.
All three of them are with Allah sbw now,they must have gone through their hisaab.

**lapyignipinge** · 10-06-2010, 02:31 PM

SubhanAllah, Ibn Tayymia Rahmatullah, may Allah grant Him with Jannatul Ferdous!

**Katoabralia** · 10-06-2010, 04:47 PM

Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers .
Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers?

Ibn Taymiyya is not less controversial than the two mentioned above and certain scholars have declares takfir on him as well.

**P1international** · 10-06-2010, 05:31 PM

Assalam alaikum w.w..

Hazrat Maulana Rasheed Ahmed gangohi sb (rah) mentions in Fatawa Rasheediya that Hazrat Mansur Hallaj (rah) was a Waliullah.. Hazrat Maulana zafar Ahmed Thanvi (rah) has written a book on him titled ' Seerat Mansur Hallaj (rah)'

wa assalam..

10-05-2010, 08:38 PM	#1
bestworkothlo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 490 Senior Member	Ibn Arabi & Mansur Hallaj Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers . Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 11:22 PM	#2
RokgroofeTeme Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 382 Senior Member	Burhanudhin Ibrahim ibn Umar al-Biqaii al Shafii(d.885.AH), a scholar of Tafsir and Hadith had accused them of Kufr but in fact he had been in turn refuted by Imam Jalaludin al-Suyuti(Rah)(d.911..AH), another prominent shafii scholar of repute .[Ref:Shadaratu Zahab by Ibnul Imad al-Hanbali] Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 11:32 PM	#3
anolbom Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	Assalamualykum Good info on Ibn Arabi (rah) http://www.sulook.org/jsp/biographie..._Ibn_Arabi.pdf Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 11:55 PM	#4
BenWired306 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 471 Senior Member	Salamun 'alaykum, Some scholars, especially those Dhahiri scholars(NOT referring to the Fiqhi school) not trained in the inner sciences(tasawwuf), made Takfir of them. The majority of the Sufiyah have praised them, especially Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn 'Arabi (rahmatu'Allahi 'alayh). His legacy is to be found especially in the Shathili Tariqa. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 03:58 AM	#5
TheBestCheapestOEM Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 378 Senior Member	Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:06 AM	#6
Petrushkaukrop Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 584 Senior Member	Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars. What!?!?! You sure? Im pretty sure they dont. IIRC, In Aap Beti, Shakh Zakariya quotes a book of Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanawi , where he is quoting Mawlana Qasim Nanautawi on the explanation of al-Hallaj's actions. That's Imam Qasim Nanautawi, Hakimul-Ummah and Hadrat Shaykh . Surely their views represent the scholars of Deoband..... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:11 AM	#7
cxddfrxc Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 417 Senior Member	AOA, bro taalib_e_ilm, i read the pdf link tht u gave.......but thr was something tht made me to stop reading it and first search the whole site for who is mainting the site.....in one of the pages of the pdf thr is mentioned "Mawla Ali AS"......did u get it.....and the site is run by some qadiri-akbari tariq......while i have heard tht qadiri tariqa is not a famous one among most of the muslims.....becuz of their dodgy aqedah..... anyways.....ive heard abt the things which are said related to the 2 persons mentioned....all i can say is tht we shud leave it to Allah.....leave it as mutashabihat.....dont make judgements......worry abt ur own self.....Allah will ask abt YOU on YOUR judgement day.....so we shud all get ready for tht........ Wallah Ho Allam Jazak Allah, Saad Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:12 AM	#8
BenWired306 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 471 Senior Member	I would like to add something about Al-Hallaj. While some giants of Ahlus Sunnah have said that he was a Wali (Ibn Hajr al-Haytami and others), we must also remember that it was his former teacher and murshid, Al-Imam Junayd Al-Baghdadiy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu) who judged upon the Dhahir and officiated the execution of Al-Hallaj. We are followers of the Junaydi Path. Yet the Sane teaches the Fool and vice versa. And there is a lot of depth in this saying for those who reflect. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:17 AM	#9
BenWired306 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 471 Senior Member	srqureshi The Qadiri tariqa is without a doubt from the well known turuq. It is accepted worldwide and it got its name from Shaykh 'Abdul Qader al-Jilaniy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:22 AM	#10
LasTins Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 629 Senior Member	srqureshi The Qadiri tariqa is without a doubt from the well known turuq. It is accepted worldwide and it got its name from Shaykh 'Abdul Qader al-Jilaniy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu). Yeah I was gonna say... Dodgy Aqidah?? Unknown Tariq?? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:29 AM	#11
TheBestCheapestOEM Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 378 Senior Member	What!?!?! You sure? Im pretty sure they dont. IIRC, In Aap Beti, Shakh Zakariya quotes a book of Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanawi , where he is quoting Mawlana Qasim Nanautawi on the explanation of al-Hallaj's actions. That's Imam Qasim Nanautawi, Hakimul-Ummah and Hadrat Shaykh . Surely their views represent the scholars of Deoband..... The explanation is the explanation of the process by which one falls off the path. Understanding why and how something happened is different from considering it right. So think deep and ponder. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:31 AM	#12
cxddfrxc Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 417 Senior Member	AOA, Bro Rifai, please accept my apologies....i mixed it with somethign else......my mistake....... Jazak Allah for correcting me....... Saad Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:37 AM	#13
Petrushkaukrop Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 584 Senior Member	The explanation is the explanation of the process by which one falls off the path. Understanding why and how something happened is different from considering it right. So think deep and ponder. Yes, but have they called him a kafir?? The words in Aap Beti certainly dont seem to suggest that. Can you give any quotes Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 06:03 AM	#14
Buyemae Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 607 Senior Member	Not to start about sheikh ibn arabi, but no deobandi scholar i am aware of advocates 'all' his teachings. The controversial issues he raised have been refuted by ulema e deoband. Refuted with respect, they say he erred in his understanding. As far as I am aware 'all' deobandi scholars advise to stay away from reading sheikh ibn arabi's books if you are a layman. There are certain beliefs thats sheikh ibn arabi held that are outright wrong, one is the term 'withaal', which is a word in urdu. Sheikh Ibn arabi was of the belief that the soul of the Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam would reunite with Allah after his demise, but that is incorrect because Allah is wahid, one, and he has no partner. Our ulema e deoband seem to have used the term 'withaal' also in many books but they used it without understanding the history behind the term withaal, the word comes from Sheikh Ibn Arabi's maslak and I was told that it is wrong. If you wish to know more please consult a mufti who is well versed in aqeedah. With regards to Manur al Hallaj, then as far as i know no deobandi scholar (at least on paper) calls him a kafir. If anything the deobandi scholars who are well versed in tassawuf always try to justify his actions. I believe there was something written about Mianji Nurmuhammad Jhinjanvi (Sheikh of Haji saheb) that he also went through the same as Mansur al Hallaj but he didnt say a word and continued like that for a period of 6 months. What Mansur al Hallaj went through was a state. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 06:25 AM	#15
Flefebleaft Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 409 Senior Member	Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers . Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers? This is a lie propogated by many "traditionalists", especially Nuh Keller, and Ibn Taymiyyah isn't the only one who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi as there are hundreds of classical ulama from the Sufis and Ash'aris who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi as mentioned byAl-Biqa'i, Taqiyyuddeen al-Fasi, and others. Some scholars, especially those Dhahiri scholars(NOT referring to the Fiqhi school) not trained in the inner sciences(tasawwuf), made Takfir of them. Stop lying and the majority of those who made takfeer of Ibn Arabi weren't Dhahiri. Nut surprising coming from the Ahbash who consider Hafez al-Asad a great "Muslim" while making takfeer of Ibn Taymiyyah. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-06-2010, 11:59 AM	#16
Enrivaanonock Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 531 Senior Member	Ibn 'Arabi is counted as Shaykh al Akbar in the inner sciences by the people of Deoband. Mansur al Hallaj is counted as a Kaafir by our(Deobandi) scholars. Do you have any proof that this is the Deobandi position? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 02:10 PM	#17
KitRittyTug Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 475 Senior Member	Assalamualikum wmwbt Regarding Sheikh Ibn-e-Arabi ru scholars advise not to go through his books because there are certain terminologies which u might not understand or take the meaning which wasnt supposed by Sheikh. About Mansur Hallaj i dont have a fatwa but yes i went to meet a aalim and he used respectable words for Mansur Hallaj. Regarding Ibn-e-tayymiah ru making takfir of such scholars,he was a bit mutashaddid and so are the present day salafis. All three of them are with Allah sbw now,they must have gone through their hisaab. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 02:31 PM	#18
lapyignipinge Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 576 Senior Member	SubhanAllah, Ibn Tayymia Rahmatullah, may Allah grant Him with Jannatul Ferdous! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-06-2010, 04:47 PM	#19
Katoabralia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 403 Senior Member	Scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah regard them i.e Ibn arabi and Mansur hallaj as disbelivers . Other than Ibn Taymiyyah ,Does anyone know other great scholars who regard both Ibn Arabi and Mansur Hallaj as disbelievers? Ibn Taymiyya is not less controversial than the two mentioned above and certain scholars have declares takfir on him as well. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 05:31 PM	#20
P1international Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 643 Senior Member	Assalam alaikum w.w.. Hazrat Maulana Rasheed Ahmed gangohi sb (rah) mentions in Fatawa Rasheediya that Hazrat Mansur Hallaj (rah) was a Waliullah.. Hazrat Maulana zafar Ahmed Thanvi (rah) has written a book on him titled ' Seerat Mansur Hallaj (rah)' wa assalam.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote