[colmedindustry]

For the record nobody thinks of "West" as the darling and nobody appreciated Kuf'r over Islam and you are making accusations on the Eemaan of your Muslim brothers and sisters.

1. Mukhtara Mai was rapped in Pakistan
2. Women are whistled at and chased in Karachi
3. Niqabi women are chased and their clothes tore up in Cairo
4. Maids are gang-raped in Saudia
5. Niqab was ripped from the face in Egypt by an Islamic Scholar

Not saying that these events don't happen in the West but you don't want to answer because you can't answer!

Let me clarify a few things.

1) Women are not whistled at or chased in Karachi, I'm from Karachi. My whole family is from Karachi. You must've meant [clip]
2) Niqab was not ripped from the face of a woman by an Islamic scholar in egypt. Tantawi Khabeeth verbally scolded the sister, she removed it herself.

My point was based on the video, so all you fanboys/girls of brother C.H. can relax. The point was to blame the person going to the western countries. If only people would simply pay attention to what was IN the video.

The question of permissibility is a separate issue, apart from what I had posted.

[enfoires]

^^^ No, Colonel isn't out of topic, if anybody is it's YOU. I mean seriously you made no sense.

He was referring to the "honor" killing case the OP was talking about which a Muslim in the west committed against their daughter. A similar killing happened in my state with an Iraqi immigrant who ran over his daughter. Unfortunately, Colonel is 100% correct. What he said is EXACTLY what happens in all of these cases. The immigrants come to the West and never bother teaching their children proper Islamic values. They let their kids do as they please with little oversight, because they don't realize how depraved the general culture here is.Then, when the kids reach puberty and start dating, the parents get pissy and eventually do stupid things such as killing their daughters. Such stuff would never have happened in the first place if the parents actually raised their children with a healthy respect of Islam. The incident in Arizona was the exact same. I think the father was some drunkard who never attended the masjid and never bothered to raise his kids well.

[xIuvyAuT]

Let me clarify a few things.

1) Women are not whistled at or chased in Karachi, I'm from Karachi. My whole family is from Karachi. You must've meant [clip].

I think that is a generalization. I don't want to get into these Karachi vs. Lahore polemics, but from what I have seen with my own eyes men do not even spare women who are covered head to toe from their glares, pathetic comments, and in some cases even more. We can't say all men do this in Karachi, but it does occur and we shouldn't deny it.



The topic however of this thread is honor killings and perhaps we should stick to that and help answer the sister's questions.

[AAAESLLESO]

Let me clarify a few things.

1) Women are not whistled at or chased in Karachi, I'm from Karachi. My whole family is from Karachi. You must've meant [clip].

Usage of one word tells everything about YOUR SICK, RACIST, BIGOTED MENTALITY! You should hang your head in shame!!!

This is the precisely the state of people who call themselves to be "Muslims" and may Allah (SWT) EXPNGE THIS FILTH from our hearts...

Sister has answered your TRASH adequately.

I think that is a generalization. I don't want to get into these Karachi vs. Lahore polemics, but from what I have seen with my own eyes men do not even spare women who are covered head to toe from their glares, pathetic comments, and in some cases even more. We can't say all men do this in Karachi, but it does occur and we shouldn't deny it.



The topic however of this thread is honor killings and perhaps we should stick to that and help answer the sister's questions.

[colmedindustry]

Usage of one word tells everything about YOUR SICK, RACIST, BIGOTED MENTALITY! You should hang your head in shame!!!

This is the precisely the state of people who call themselves to be "Muslims" and may Allah (SWT) EXPNGE THIS FILTH from our hearts...

Sister has answered your TRASH adequately.

What ? U mad? Another waste of my time.

To the sister, dear sister, maybe you may have experienced things differently, but being a brother, sun and uncle myself, I've traveled different places in Pakistan and outside it. So far, women coming from Lahore seem to like it in Karachi, as they say they couldnt even leave their houses in the evening like some women do in Karachi.

Again, individual incidents may occur, but being brought up in Karachi, I know that such incidents don;t normally occur there, but I may be wrong.

To C.H. I forgive you for losing your temper. Try using your horn in Lahore after 9 PM , if only to tell some idiot woman she can't walk on the road. I was about to do this when a friend of mine (Maulana Fayaz) told me "shah ji yeh karachi nahin hay".... Again, you're forgiven

[Jorcelirl]

Let's be honest with our selves,

Pakistan is the worst place to be at the moment.

The country was not created in the name of Islam. It's not a Holy-Land. All these stupid logics and imaginative theories should be cleansed from the mind. Pakistan is NOT ISLAM KA QILA. Pakistan is not an ISLAMIC NUCLEAR POWER. Pakistan is a secular state. Pakistan is the enemy of Islam. The head of the state if a SHIA-KAFIR, the army if full of QADYANIS, the govt is full of QADYANI/SHIA ministers. Interior Minister - Shaytaan Malik is a Qadyani.

The constitution of Pakistan is against Shariah. The laws are against Shariah. Your life is not safe there, neither your Izzat.

You can pick up any girl, rape her and live a peaceful life. If you get caught, you pay the police and they'll pick up an innocent guy instead of you.

How is Pakistan an Islamic state? Just because there are Madaris? Just because Muslims live there? Or maybe because of Abdullah Shah Ghazi (RA)

I HATE PAKISTAN. Why? Because I don't get any izzat there. My father's land was Qabzaad by the Qabza Group. We spend 10 years fighting a case, nothing happened except that my father left this dunia. We didn't pursue the case after that.

Saudia is much better. But the problem here is, you can't open a business in your name (i'm KANGLA right now because my KAFEEL ate up my business and kicked me out). You can't buy a house, your children are not ALLOWED to study in the GREAT SAUDI UNIVERSITIES. But still, Makkah Madinah. I want my Nabi's sifarish in Qayamat, that's why I'm here.

The second and third generation PAKISTANIS who have never seen Pakistan, who don't even have Pakistani passports, who can't speak urdu, they are like Aliens from Mars. If they get kicked out, then where do they go?

Western countries are much better in terms of financial and social security. A pakistani from a village can get scholarship in any top University in US if he has a good academic record. He can go study in UK, he can go to Australia, he can go to the best universities in the world.

Don't blame it on people, who wouldn't want to go there? Who would want to live in Pakistan?

I get thousands of calls from people begging me to arrange a saudi VISA for them because they just can't live in Pakistan anymore. One aunty was crying and telling me to arrange a visa for her son she wants him here.

Don't complain or blame people if they want to go and live in the west. You don't provide them social and financial assurance, why would they come to you?

Brother Usman, i think you are turning a blind eye. I love Karachi because it was my home town. My childhood memories are from Karachi. But theres nothing Islamic about Karachi. Women do get hooted at, perverts do touch the women in markets.

But you shouldn't have said what you said about Lahore. Yes lahore is full of fahashi but still....

[colmedindustry]

Brother Usman, i think you are turning a blind eye. I love Karachi because it was my home town. My childhood memories are from Karachi. But theres nothing Islamic about Karachi. Women do get hooted at, perverts do touch the women in markets.

But you shouldn't have said what you said about Lahore. Yes lahore is full of fahashi but still....

nope, I believe I'm quite justified in making a claim like this. I believe favoritism should stop , especially in an Islamic forum like this. Please read my edited post, as I've added some more things to it.

[Jorcelirl]

nope, I believe I'm quite justified in making a claim like this. I believe favoritism stop , especially in an Islamic forum like this. Please read my edited post, as I've added some more things to it.

Sheikh, halaat buray hain yeh manna paray ga. But generalization is always wrong everywhere.

Whether its from the good colonel or it's from me or it's from you. It's wrong.

Shukriya

[BV6lwvXf]

My friend is from Karachi. She doesn't even want to hear the name Pakistan.

[herawaq]

Wow I didn't know our brothers and sisters are facing so many problems in Pakistan. Its sad.
Sometimes people in India think Muslims in Pakistan are better off, thinking 'Atleast they are in a Muslim country.' I guess not anymore.
Well i suppose there is oppression in everywhere. Almost all Governments and Rulers seem to be Oppressors, Very few good rulers in the world today.

[Dyslermergerb]

Assalam alaykum,

My Brothers and Sisters, Let us not forget the original intent of this thread nor the new Muslim who started it.

Wassalam

[BPitt]

Brother Usman, i think you are turning a blind eye. I love Karachi because it was my home town. My childhood memories are from Karachi. But theres nothing Islamic about Karachi. Women do get hooted at, perverts do touch the women in markets.

I can confirm that women often get nipped in the bazaars, from my experience.

[BPitt]

I's just like to add that honour killings are present in many cultures and stems across people of various faiths, here being an example of a Hindu murdering her daughter for marrying someone from a different cast;

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...991195,00.html

[AAAESLLESO]

What ? U mad? Another waste of my time.

To the sister, dear sister, maybe you may have experienced things differently, but being a brother, sun and uncle myself, I've traveled different places in Pakistan and outside it. So far, women coming from Lahore seem to like it in Karachi, as they say they couldnt even leave their houses in the evening like some women do in Karachi.

Again, individual incidents may occur, but being brought up in Karachi, I know that such incidents don;t normally occur there, but I may be wrong.

To C.H. I forgive you for losing your temper. Try using your horn in Lahore after 9 PM , if only to tell some idiot woman she can't walk on the road. I was about to do this when a friend of mine (Maulana Fayaz) told me "shah ji yeh karachi nahin hay".... Again, you're forgiven

I am not angry but I am SICKENED, DISGUSTED & ASHAMED that speding so much time in the company of Ulama has not cleaned your heart of SICKNESS!

What kind of a Muslim calls an entire city filled with Muslims "Whore"?

I narrated a hadeeth of our beloved Nabi but a SICKO like you doesn't deserve it!

[herawaq]

Sorry Colonel Saab,
I reported your last post.

[soyclocky]

Strange... it wasn't that long ago people on the forum were still saying "Pakistan Zindabad" and praising that country. Suddenly everything turned 180 degrees and people are consigning that country to Heck!

I wonder if in six months it will turn 180 degrees again... :/

[radicalvolume]

I think that is a generalization. I don't want to get into these Karachi vs. Lahore polemics, but from what I have seen with my own eyes men do not even spare women who are covered head to toe from their glares, pathetic comments, and in some cases even more. We can't say all men do this in Karachi, but it does occur and we shouldn't deny it.



The topic however of this thread is honor killings and perhaps we should stick to that and help answer the sister's questions.

I have been living in Karachi for the last 4 years and I have never seen this happen. I have heard stories from some other people.

I've never seen anyone treat a woman with disrespect on the street (such as catcalling or lewd comments). When the woman is wearing niqab, men, even the non-religious ones, immediately yield the way.

Karachi is a big city however. I do not get to see much of the areas bordering the water or some of the areas like Nazimabad.

The things some of my family witnessed in Lahore cannot be spoken.

[radicalvolume]

Bismillah
As someone of Bangali origin and somwhat relegiously inclined, you will never hear me praising Pakistanis. The pakistanis single handedly made muslim life unbearable with crimes, prostitution, drugs. They exhibit highly secterian tendency be in a berelewy or salafist form. They simply impose their jahil like tendency on relegion to beat other people with. The likes of EDL rose at the back of Pakistanis (Jehlemi, Mirpuri) moron shouting abuse. They need to be deported so they can drive there 4 wheel vehicle on rawlpindi highway shouting Quran and Sunnah without having any relegious sense or dignity or modesty as one would expact from people who claim to be more practicing then rest of the world. Most of the Pakistani educated women are marrying non muslim. This itself is indietment of this dissfunctional napakstan almost as bad as the zionist enitity.
Allahualam

"Mirpuris" are a minority. They are only a huge population in Britain because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangla_Dam

The project was designed primarily to increase the amount of water that could be used for irrigation from the flow of the Jhelum and its tributaries. Its secondary function was to generate electrical power from the irrigation releases at the artificial head of the reservoir. The project was not designed as a flood control structure, although some benefit in this respect also arises from its use for irrigation and water supply. The Government of Pakistan had agreed to pay royalties to the Government of AJK (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) for the use of the water and electricity generated by the dam. Over 280 villages and the towns of Mirpur and Dadyal were submerged and over 110,000 people were displaced from the area as a result of the dam being built. Some of those affected by the dam were given work permits for Britain by the Government of Pakistan, and as a result, in many cities in the UK the majority of the 'Pakistani' community actually originated from the Dadyal-Mirpur area of the disputed region of Jammu & Kashmir. In Pakistan, Punjabis and Pashtun are the largest ethnic groups.

1. Punjabis (42%)
2. Pashtun (17%)
3. Sindhis (14%)
4. Seraikis (10%)
5. Muhajirs (7.5%)
6. Baloch (3.5%)
7. Other (4.6%)

Mirpuri, Potohari/Pahari, Hindko, etc are not Punjabi and are not Pashtun. They are from the "Other" in the above list. They are academically classified as speaking "Western Punjabi" languages but a Punjabi speaker (such as from Lahore or Faisalabad or Indian Punjab) cannot understand them and vice-versa. They can all understand each other's languages.

Culture-wise they share some aspects with Punjabis and Kashmiris. Mostly with Kashmirs (however Kashmiris are a different group though they live nearby). They tend to mostly be Barelwi, conservative, fitting the stereotype of the Pakistanis you just mentioned. Almost all Pashtun are Deobandi. A large number of Punjabis are either Deobandi (especially from Central or South Punjab) or Barelwi but towards the East, so having not too much in common with "Pahari" culture. They seem to share culture with the Indian Punjabis (Sikhs) more than they do with the Mirpuri/Pahari people.

They are very anti-Deobandi and anti-Taliban.

Please do not confuse British Pakistanis with Pakistanis in Pakistan or even Pakistanis in the United States (most of whom seem to be Punjabi). They are not reflective of any other Pakistani demographic in the world except for these few cities in the border between NWFP/Punjab/AzadKashmir.

The most popular religious movements in Bangladesh (Deobandi movements and Jamaat-e-Islami) came from Pakistan (well Deoband technically started in India in 19th century).

Besides, this is a silly point to bring up. Do you really want to compare religiosity in the Western Pakistani and Bengali communities?

[BPitt]

Bismillah
As someone of Bangali origin and somwhat relegiously inclined, you will never hear me praising Pakistanis. The pakistanis single handedly made muslim life unbearable with crimes, prostitution, drugs. They exhibit highly secterian tendency be in a berelewy or salafist form. They simply impose their jahil like tendency on relegion to beat other people with. The likes of EDL rose at the back of Pakistanis (Jehlemi, Mirpuri) moron shouting abuse. They need to be deported so they can drive there 4 wheel vehicle on rawlpindi highway shouting Quran and Sunnah without having any relegious sense or dignity or modesty as one would expact from people who claim to be more practicing then rest of the world. Most of the Pakistani educated women are marrying non muslim. This itself is indietment of this dissfunctional napakstan almost as bad as the zionist enitity.
Allahualam

I am somewhat surprised at your post brother Nomadic, as Bangalis in the UK, fair no better in all sections of society. It's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

[sbrscnds]

Bismillah
Most of the Bangalis in UK are from Sylhet. They are generally from not an educated back ground and exhibit similar tendenacy that of Pakistanis (new money syndrome). The only difference is they are not as aggessive as Pakistanis. Then again the ego centric arrogant culture gotten from first food, absente parents, apathetic culture devoid of any sense of real history/ point of refernce) the youth are following the british Pakistanis footstep. Most of the salafist bangalis have simply replaced their baggage with a relegious ones.
My wife is from Sylhet and was surprised that her parents financially better off then my parents actually agreed to marry her to me who do not own a house, resturant. One of my sylheti friend who inherited a house and have job had a hard time finding a wife becuase the sylheti parents were demanding ridiculous things (new money syndrome).
Allahualam

"Mirpuris" are a minority. They are only a huge population in Britain because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangla_Dam



In Pakistan, Punjabis and Pashtun are the largest ethnic groups.

1. Punjabis (42%)
2. Pashtun (17%)
3. Sindhis (14%)
4. Seraikis (10%)
5. Muhajirs (7.5%)
6. Baloch (3.5%)
7. Other (4.6%)

Mirpuri, Potohari/Pahari, Hindko, etc are not Punjabi and are not Pashtun. They are from the "Other" in the above list. They are academically classified as speaking "Western Punjabi" languages but a Punjabi speaker (such as from Lahore or Faisalabad or Indian Punjab) cannot understand them and vice-versa. They can all understand each other's languages.

Culture-wise they share some aspects with Punjabis and Kashmiris. Mostly with Kashmirs (however Kashmiris are a different group though they live nearby). They tend to mostly be Barelwi, conservative, fitting the stereotype of the Pakistanis you just mentioned. Almost all Pashtun are Deobandi. A large number of Punjabis are either Deobandi (especially from Central or South Punjab) or Barelwi but towards the East, so having not too much in common with "Pahari" culture. They seem to share culture with the Indian Punjabis (Sikhs) more than they do with the Mirpuri/Pahari people.

They are very anti-Deobandi and anti-Taliban.

Please do not confuse British Pakistanis with Pakistanis in Pakistan or even Pakistanis in the United States (most of whom seem to be Punjabi). They are not reflective of any other Pakistani demographic in the world except for these few cities in the border between NWFP/Punjab/AzadKashmir.

The most popular religious movements in Bangladesh (Deobandi movements and Jamaat-e-Islami) came from Pakistan (well Deoband technically started in India in 19th century).

Besides, this is a silly point to bring up. Do you really want to compare religiosity in the Western Pakistani and Bengali communities?