[LSDDSL]

Our respected, beloved and honourable Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and our respected, beloved and honourable Shaykh (Mufti) Rafi Usmani (HA) have both said that there should be a body like IRF in Pakistan and also AIMPLB

So we admire what the Indian Muslims have done and appreciate it.

Walaikum Salam,

Brother by IRF dou you mean Islamic Research Foundation headed by Dr.Zakir Naik?

[TheBest-Host]

Walaikum Salam,

Brother by IRF dou you mean Islamic Research Foundation headed by Dr.Zakir Naik?

No and for pointing out my mistake and may Allah (SWT) reward you in this world and the next (Ameen).

See post 36 for hyperlinks.

[JeremyBalll]

As a Muslim living in the Netherlands, I think Muslims in Muslim countries should not see the west
as superior and look upto it. Too often I have found Muslims here who are acting like
'Uncle Tom' like that of Christianity. They take the view of the west as standard and from there
they are trying to prove the natives that Islam perfectly conforms western ideals.
The problem is that they see western civilization as an example and somehow Islam needs to be clarified and subjected for these people of 'high standards'.

They often make the mistake that the same system that came forward from the rennesaince destroyed a religion. Christendom was replaced by western secularism. The same could happen with
Islam, especially if most of the Ulama are busy with refuting eachother.
Salaf vs Sufi, Deobandi vs Barelwi and so on instead of refuting secular idea's.

In short: We as a community should study the works of people like Kant, Descartes, Spinoza, Russel in order to understand their idea's and then unite and produce a counter-attack.

I see western civillization as a community that has stressed too much on Tanzih in the beginning which lead to Deism and eventually to Atheism because of uncontrolled Aql (reason). Hinduism is the other side of the coin, a religion that has stressed too much on Tasbih and lost it's original meaning because of Khayyal (imagination). In both systems, one of the two were taken into extremes and forgot the other.
We should not fall for that and keep balancing on the point of the needle, that is Tawhid.

[masaredera]

As a Muslim living in the Netherlands, I think Muslims in Muslim countries should not see the west
as superior and look upto it. Too often I have found Muslims here who are acting like
'Uncle Tom' like that of Christianity. They take the view of the west as standard and from there
they are trying to prove the natives that Islam perfectly conforms western ideals.
The problem is that they see western civilization as an example and somehow Islam needs to be clarified and subjected for these people of 'high standards'.

They often make the mistake that the same system that came forward from the rennesaince destroyed a religion. Christendom was replaced by western secularism. The same could happen with
Islam, especially if most of the Ulama are busy with refuting eachother.
Salaf vs Sufi, Deobandi vs Barelwi and so on instead of refuting secular idea's.

In short: We as a community should study the works of people like Kant, Descartes, Spinoza, Russel in order to understand their idea's and then unite and produce a counter-attack.

I see western civillization as a community that has stressed too much on Tanzih in the beginning which lead to Deism and eventually to Atheism because of uncontrolled Aql (reason). Hinduism is the other side of the coin, a religion that has stressed too much on Tasbih and lost it's original meaning because of Khayyal (imagination). In both systems, one of the two were taken into extremes and forgot the other.
We should not fall for that and keep balancing on the point of the needle, that is Tawhid.

Assalam alaykum,

You make some excellent points in this post. If only your advice would be followed.

Wassalam

[Chooriwrocaxz]

Assalaamu Alayum
Shaykh Colonel Saheb

I have enjoyed your dissection of Muslims in non-Muslim lands. We need more threads like this on SF.

I would like your comments regarding South Africa.

You mentioned the Hanafi-Shafi'i divide which is true. To state further amongst the Hanafi we have the standard Deobandi-Barelwi divide. And recently Salafiyya is gaining a tiny footprint. The modernists/free thinkers are stronger then Salafiyya though.

Culturally the typical Indian culture norms exist. As you and Shaykh Taliban discussed. But the newer generation is slowly growing out of it.

Due to apartheid and the sidelining of the indigenous black people they remain the most poverty stricken. However, there are thousands that have become Muslim over the years by the efforts of late Mawlana Caseem Sema, tabligh, etc.

Due to the "Indian" mentality the "black Muslims" are looked down at. That is a very sad state of affairs.

Further, amongst the immigrant communities there are thousands of Muslims. On one level the locals have shunned them so they are lost. On another level effort is being made to bring them back on track. And on a third level they are strong, "phapan" Muslims and have established their own Musjids, madrassas, etc.

We, as Muslims, have brought alot to the country in the past and continue to do so. But the current mentality if continued will lead to the isolation of Indian Muslims from local South Africans.

[nemoforone]

Two things that a Muslim living in non-Mulims lands can teach to Muslims living in Muslims land come to my mind, especially after having discussed about this topic with Hadrat London786 Sahab for a few days:

-Getting rid of inferiority complex towards the kuffar, the "West", the "white people". Muslims living in the west itself (at least those who haven't left Islam falling in the trap of assimilation after the strong pressure in this sense) have managed to see with their own eyes the reality of the "mighty west" and aren't going to nurture its myth anymore. While unfortunately, most Muslims living in Muslims country are affected by massive inferiority complex towards the west and are heavily affected by its ideologies.
I've noticed - and I'd like to hear your (Colonel's) view on this - that the Muslim population with the most Islamic ideology and having more clear the complete nature of Islam (ideological, spirituali, political) are amongst the Muslims in the UK and maybe South Africa. I'm not saying all Muslims in UK, I'm rather saying that as percentage, the percentage of Muslims who have correct and complete understanding of Din is the highest in UK (and maybe South Africa). What do you think?

-This has been already mentioned but it's worthy repeating: how to behave in a civil way: no bribes, no corruption, no carelessness; more cleanliness; behaving in a civil way; respecting queues...

-Another important point: living most often in mixed community, Muslims living in non-Muslim country are more prone on getting rid of racism and seclusion along ethnical/caste/racial lines, which unfortunaly seem to be quite widespread in many Muslim countries. Also, one can learn how to separate Islam from cultural baggage, especially that cultural baggage which is actually anti-Islamic.

[nemoforone]

As a Muslim living in the Netherlands, I think Muslims in Muslim countries should not see the west
as superior and look upto it. Too often I have found Muslims here who are acting like
'Uncle Tom' like that of Christianity. They take the view of the west as standard and from there
they are trying to prove the natives that Islam perfectly conforms western ideals.
The problem is that they see western civilization as an example and somehow Islam needs to be clarified and subjected for these people of 'high standards'.

Top point masha'Allah.

[leahjhburton]

Assalamu Alaikum

Uncle Col hardstone, you would like to see sisters selling to raise funds for masjids , but dont you know it is WRONG for even Men to to sell food to raise money for Masjid and Madresas? Its imitating the kuffar among other things. At least thats what we are taught.