[Adimondin]

Just a quick question... Do Barelvis believe that the prophet SAW can come and sit in a chair in the Mosque or is that another group?

[Garry Richardson]

Very Enlightening Speech :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFOz...eature=related

[longrema]

A couple of issues the Sheikh touches upon.. let us see if it actually unsubstantiated claims.

1. Sheikh said that deos "claim" that barelvies believe in Ilm kulli (No barelwi believes that) Do deobandis have any proof for this claim? He said, certain barelwis (2 or 3) who have said so.
- http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...p-ilm-al-ghayb


2. Sheikh mentioned about Noor or Bashr with reference to Nashr Teeb. Sheikh said, Barelwies do not believe that nur is dhati part of Allah. What is the deobandi stance on the issue and how it differ from what barelwi stance?

3. Sh. said that some barelwies says Rasulullah didnt have shadow. Probably a part of the above isse. But Is this even an issue of polemical ikhtilaf?

4. Sh. says since some laymen only have 5 link with deen (15th shaban, 27 ramadan, 2 Eids, Milaad) [he for got the Laylatul Me'raaj], we should not say that these are bid'a (except for the 2 eids) since they will loose all link with deen.

These are basically the issues he is addressing. InshAllah these point form will help in a better discussion on the issue.

The issue of OP is also a another issue which Shekh did not mention.

5. Doebandi claim that Barelwis claim Nabi is Hadhir Wa Nadhir. I dont know about the major imams, by few of my laymen barelwy family believe that.

[Amirmsheesk]

.. I believe everyone should listen this complete bayan by Shaykh hasan ali, clarifies many points and waters down the concepts behind the overly emphasized ikhtilafi stuff....

[Amirmsheesk]

.. I believe everyone should listen to this complete bayan by Shaykh hasan ali, clarifies many points and waters down the concepts behind the overly emphasized ikhtilafi stuff....

[MeverikcNils]

dont deobandi sufis also believe that the Prophet has the ability (through Allah of course) to be occasionaly present at their majalis?

[Garry Richardson]

we can make connection with the Prophet’s (saw) spiritual presence in Muraqaba. The Quran says: “Wa `Alamoo anna fikum Rasulullah“- And Know that within you is the Messenger of Allah . The Shuyukh have spoken and written extensively stations of witnessing- It is the reality of the first pillar of Islam (Shuhud) moving from speaking by tongue and belief to direct witnessing. It is from a difficult level to be clean to meet Rasulullah as in a wakeful state but through connection with the shaykh we may seek audience with the Beloved Rasul by intent and concentration and experience his presence to various degrees. What is important is cultivating Love and Presence with Prophet (. We hope that Allah grants us this experience of meeting The Rasul in this life.

[MeverikcNils]

we can make connection with the Prophet’s (saw) spiritual presence in Muraqaba. The Quran says: “Wa `Alamoo anna fikum Rasulullah“- And Know that within you is the Messenger of Allah . The Shuyukh have spoken and written extensively stations of witnessing- It is the reality of the first pillar of Islam (Shuhud) moving from speaking by tongue and belief to direct witnessing. It is from a difficult level to be clean to meet Rasulullah as in a wakeful state but through connection with the shaykh we may seek audience with the Beloved Rasul by intent and concentration and experience his presence to various degrees. What is important is cultivating Love and Presence with Prophet (. We hope that Allah grants us this experience of meeting The Rasul in this life.

reference for the quran ayat please.

[zCLadw3R]

Salam moderators

Yet again you have deleted my worthy comments. Why does this keep happening? Am I an enemy of the forums

[longrema]

Salam moderators

Yet again you have deleted my worthy comments. Why does this keep happening? Am I an enemy of the forums

You are serious 1 out of 10 times. While mods are serious 9 out of 10. So those times when you are not serious and the mods are, they cannot tolerate your pointless sarcasm to much extent, hence the post gets deleted. I hope you understand whats happening.

You may post your concerns in the comments and suggestion section next time.

[zCLadw3R]

You are serious 1 out of 10 times. While mods are serious 9 out of 10. So those times when you are not serious and the mods are, they cannot tolerate your pointless sarcasm to much extent, hence the post gets deleted. I hope you understand whats happening.

You may post your concerns in the comments and suggestion section next time.

So that was you being serious. Seriously though, there are more pointless threads and posts than my quick witted humour. We don't want this 2.become a depression based forum full of refutation and counterclaims

[grinaJanoDant]

A couple of issues the Sheikh touches upon.. let us see if it actually unsubstantiated claims.

1. Sheikh said that deos "claim" that barelvies believe in Ilm kulli (No barelwi believes that) Do deobandis have any proof for this claim? He said, certain barelwis (2 or 3) who have said so.
- http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...p-ilm-al-ghayb


2. Sheikh mentioned about Noor or Bashr with reference to Nashr Teeb. Sheikh said, Barelwies do not believe that nur is dhati part of Allah. What is the deobandi stance on the issue and how it differ from what barelwi stance?

3. Sh. said that some barelwies says Rasulullah didnt have shadow. Probably a part of the above isse. But Is this even an issue of polemical ikhtilaf?

4. Sh. says since some laymen only have 5 link with deen (15th shaban, 27 ramadan, 2 Eids, Milaad) [he for got the Laylatul Me'raaj], we should not say that these are bid'a (except for the 2 eids) since they will loose all link with deen.

These are basically the issues he is addressing. InshAllah these point form will help in a better discussion on the issue.

The issue of OP is also a another issue which Shekh did not mention.

5. Doebandi claim that Barelwis claim Nabi is Hadhir Wa Nadhir. I dont know about the major imams, by few of my laymen barelwy family believe that.

some of your statements many barelwis i know believe in them

[ådrrraj]

The Barailwis make up aqeedah that the Prophet [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam] didn't have a shadow. Tell me, how come this isn't mentioned in any of the classical manuals of aqeedah, i.e. Aqeedah at Tahawiyyah?

If Barailwis had actually bothered to read the Hadeeth and derive their aqeedah from it, they would have found the Hadeeth:



حَدَّثَنَا عَفَّانُ ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادٌ ، قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا ثَابِتٌ ، عَنْ شُمَيْسَة ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ : أَنّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ فِي سَفَرٍ لَهُ ، فَاعْتَلَّ بَعِيرٌ لِصَفِيَّةَ ، وَفِي إِبِلِ زَيْنَبَ فَضْلٌ ، فَقَالَ لَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " إِنَّ بَعِيرًا لِصَفِيَّةَ اعْتَلَّ ، فَلَوْ أَعْطَيْتِهَا بَعِيرًا مِنْ إِبِلِكِ " . فَقَالَتْ : أَنَا أُعْطِي تِلْكَ الْيَهُودِيَّةَ . قَالَ : فَتَرَكَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ذَا الْحِجَّةِ وَالْمُحَرَّمَ ، شَهْرَيْنِ أَوْ ثَلَاثَةً ، لَا يَأْتِيهَا ، قَالَتْ : حَتَّى يَئِسْتُ مِنْهُ وَحَوَّلْتُ سَرِيرِي . قَالَتْ : فَبَيْنَمَا أَنَا يَوْمًا بِنِصْفِ النَّهَارِ ، إِذَا أَنَا بِظِلِّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مُقْبِلٌ . قَالَ عَفَّانُ : حَدَّثَنِيهِ حَمَّادٌ ، عَنْ شُمَيْسَةَ ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، ثُمَّ سَمِعْتُهُ بَعْدُ يُحَدِّثُهُ عَنْ شُمَيْسَةَ ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ . وقَالَ بَعْدُ : فِي حَجٍّ أَوْ عُمْرَةٍ . قَالَ : وَلَا أَظُنُّهُ إِلَّا قَالَ : فِي حَجَّةِ الْوَدَاعِ

Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that once while the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) was on a journey, the camel of his wife Sayyida Safiyya (Allah be pleased with her) fell ill. However, his other wife Sayyida Zaynab (Allah be pleased with her) had an extra camel. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sayyida Zaynab: “The camel of Safiyya has become ill, can you lend her your extra camel?” She replied: “should I give that Jew?” (Sayyida Safiyyah was originally a Jew). So, (upon hearing this, the Messenger of Allah became upset and) deserted her for two or three months and he would not come to her…. She says: “Until one day, at midday, I could see the shadow of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) approaching.”

(Musnad Ahmad, 6/132,Tabqaat ul Kubra vol 8 page 27 Hadeeth no: 10011,Majma az zawaid vol 4 page page 323)

So indeed the Prophet [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam] did have a shadow. After all, the Quraan says that he was just a human mortal like us. He was not an Angel or some kind of superman with special powers. He was just an ordinary human being [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam]...what made him unique was the fact that he received revelation and was commissioned by Allaah to propogate the message of Tawheed. Other than that, he was just a normal human being like you or me...like all of the prophets before him, he was born, ate, drank, slept, and died.

Barailwis refuse to accept this. This is exactly like the Christians, who refuse to accept that Nabiyyina Eesa [alaihis salaam] is just a normal human being, he is not divine or semi-divine. The Prophet [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam] warned that this Ummah will copy the ways of the Jews and Christians, and that's exactly what we are doing, unfortunately.

[P9CCd35R]

So the people were taken by a massive misunderstanding for some 130 years and just now it has been discovered that the Barelvi/deobandi split was a misunderstanding which crept in due to lack of communication while infact no real difference existed.Thanks to the Maulana in the video.
The learned Maulana with his great sense of humour has compensated for the century long bitterness but yet there are a few ill-informed individuals who need to be informed about these recent discoveries of misunderstandings. Irfan Shah is at the top of the list http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKERh2yfu4

[DuesTyr]

So indeed the Prophet [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam] did have a shadow. After all, the Quraan says that he was just a human mortal like us. He was not an Angel or some kind of superman with special powers. He was just an ordinary human being [sallallaahu alaihi wasallam]...what made him unique was the fact that he received revelation and was commissioned by Allaah to propogate the message of Tawheed. Other than that, he was just a normal human being like you or me...like all of the prophets before him, he was born, ate, drank, slept, and died.
.

brother you should not say the Prophet is like us yes he was human but not like us because according to hadeeth Prophet human nature was also very unique and different then ordinary humans.

For example Prophet sweat is unlike any human sweat it smelt more beautiful then any musk.
Prophet could survive without food & drink for many days unlike ordinary humans he slept but he's heart was awake and they are so many other examples so please refrain from saying he is just like us yes he was human but not like us.

[ådrrraj]

brother you should not say the Prophet is like us

Wa alaikum assalaam

Brother than how will I read Quraan? Because Allaah says in so many ayaat in Quraan al Majeed that the Prophet is just a human like us:

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ

Say (O Prophet ) "I am just a human like you." [Surah al Kahf 18:110]

[animilius]

Muhammad (SAW) was a homosapien, he did have a shadow as he was not transparent. End of the 100 year dispute.

[ådrrraj]

Muhammad (SAW) was a homosapien, he did have a shadow as he was not transparent. End of the 100 year dispute.

What's a "homosapien"? Don't tell me you believe in evolution!

[VemyhemiHef]

LOL. Its just the scientific term for human...i dont think he believes in evolution...it was just a quick witted one lol

[animilius]

Lol. Evolution is a completely different topic so allow going into that now. Homosapien is just the species that we are so every human being is and was a humanbeing.