[southernplayer99]

A brother asked this question and I would like to get some reference about this matter without bothering again the mufti sahab we're forwarding the questions to..

So, today he went to a local mosque in Morocco to offer his Salah, and he found that the Imam was praying toward a certain direction (different from the mihrab orientation and mosque structure), while the congregation praying behind me was oriented in the direction of the mihrab.
Maybe he was exaggerating to make his point, but he said that the Imam's qibla was almost parallel to the lines of the followers - thus almost 90 degrees of difference between Imam's and muqtadi'in's qibla!

He repeated his Salah thereafter..

Anyone knowing the ruling about the Imam and the followers praying in a different direction during the same Salah?
Can the Imam pray in a slightly different orientation than the followers (and if so, how many degrees are the maximum limit?), or should they all pray in the same direction?

The brother follows the Hanafi madhhab.

[aaafluochugh]

Is there a difference of opinion b/w the Imaam and the Mosque Committee about Qiblah?
There is a certain amount allowed and does not disrupt the Salaah, but this is about a Munfarid, I don't know about the Jamaa'ah.

[southernplayer99]

Is there a difference of opinion b/w the Imaam and the Mosque Committee about Qiblah?

No idea, this bro is in another country.

But most likely the masjid has been built according to a wrong orientation and not to bother changing the qibla signed on the carpets they placed only the Imam in the right direction while all the followers praying according to the building's orientation...

There is a certain amount allowed and does not disrupt the Salaah, but this is about a Munfarid, I don't know about the Jamaa'ah.

Yes I also remember about the amount allowed for Munfarid as well as jama'ah (all together), but the specific point was about Imam praying in a different orientation than his own jama'ah..

[aaafluochugh]

If they are in Ka'bah then it is fine according to the Ahnaaf.

I didn't answer the question though, sorry.

[benderkoz]

I think 45 degree deviation is allowed in either direction but if the imam is within this limit, it is strange muqtadis are not following the imam

[southernplayer99]

Situation is like this:

-----------
|.... / ....|
|!!!!!!!!!!!|
|!!!!!!!!!!!|
|!!!!!!!!!!!|
| !!!! |

Where / = Imam
! = Muqtadis
| = Mosque walls

Now that I think about this, it happened also to me to pray behind an Imam who was in a direction slightly different from that of the musalla's building, while people following being oriented as the building wall's orientation.

Then after some time they put some stickers on the carpets and re-oriented whole jama'ah according the correct qibla direction:

------------
|.... / ....|
|//////////|
|//////////|
|//////////|
| ... ///// |

[aaafluochugh]

When I went to Jamaa'ah two months ago, this Musallah had the Jamaa'ah like:

| / |

[Geetiill]

[quote]When I went to Jamaa'ah two months ago, this Musallah had the Jamaa'ah like:

| / |

[spklnraz]

The imam probably knows that the mosque direction is wrong but he either did not tell the followers or they just went along with the mosque because that is what people do.

[southernplayer99]

Point is, irrespective of the general rule about degrees' tolerance; is the prayer of a Muqtadi valid when he prays to another direction than that of his Imam?
Or them having the same direction is a prerequisite for the validity of the Salah?

[RogerButton33]

As-salamu 'alaykum,

What makes this scenario possible is that the masajid were often constructed before the use of modern technology. Nowadays they have changed the direction to a more correct one. This is the case in the masjid of Qarawiyin for example.

[rhybrisee]

I've got the same concern apart from that this only happens on Jumu'ah ie because mosque is packed we pray in the direction of the wall while the imam prays like 30° left. Other prayers are prayed in same direction as the imam.

Please only answer with fatwas.

[BarBoss]

As brother Kashmir has mentioned, it is permitted within 45 degrees either side i.e. a total of 90 degrees.

@Bugmenot: This passage from the Maraqi al-Falah may interest you:

It is obligatory for the person who cannot see the Kaaba to face its direction – this is the correct position. The intention of direction of prayer is not a condition and turning towards it removes the need for intention – this is the most correct position. The direction is that which a person, when turning towards it, is either facing the Kaaba or its space, precisely or approximately. Precisely means that if a line were to be drawn from the person’s face at a right angle to the horizon it would pass through the Kaaba or its space. Approximately means that the line swerves from the Kaaba or its space such that facing is not totally lost by a part of the face still facing it or its space. This applies equally if the person is near or far, even at Mecca whereby a building or a mountain is between him and the Kaaba, according to the correct position, as mentioned in Diraya and Tajnis.

[southernplayer99]

As-salamu 'alaykum,

What makes this scenario possible is that the masajid were often constructed before the use of modern technology. Nowadays they have changed the direction to a more correct one. This is the case in the masjid of Qarawiyin for example.

Sidi.

Yes, I can understand this, but why don't they change the direction of the whole jama'ah instead of only the Imam's one?
Is this permissible, to have the Imam and the followers praying on two different directions?

As brother Kashmir has mentioned, it is permitted within 45 degrees either side i.e. a total of 90 degrees.

Sidi.

Are you sure this applies also to the case herein discussed (i.e. Imam and followers praying in two different directions), other than the munfarid's qibla case?

[aaafluochugh]

The quote from Maraky al-Falah suffices. If you are not sure then call Mufti Ebrahim. Their number is listed on AskImaam

[southernplayer99]

The quote from Maraky al-Falah suffices.

I'm not sure about that.

Insha'Allah there may be other contributions to the thread.

[rhybrisee]

Insha'Allah there may be other contributions to the thread.

I've asked a mufti who also replied salah would be valid due to the 45° leeway.

Allah knows best.

[cliceperperIa]

Assalamu alaykum

Similar situation in one of the barelvi masjid here.

The imam Qibla is about 20deg tilted. After the jamaat, the imam and the MUAZZIN pray the nafl in that tilted 20 deg direction.


I thought of walking off the jamaat. And I never visit that masjid.