[defenderfors]

To promote unity...oh forget it.

"The niyyah of the mu'min is better than his 'amal" (hadeeth)

Their receiving these two personalities of the Haramain Shareefayn is definitely a show of unity.

Mukhtar

[alfredtaniypnx]

Why is it strange? My shaykh Hadrat Mawlana Arshad Madani db went to great lengths to invite the Shaykh to Deoband. Before Fajr on that day, there were 10 lakh people, most of them talaba and ulama already in Deoband waiting for the Shaykh. We need to stop underestimating the unity of the Ummah. And if anyone had stood up and shouted something stupid, he would have been beaten to a pulp.

It is strange because I thought Deobandi's considered him to be a devient anthromorphist who is from ahlal bida. From reading many of the threads on this forum, I got the impression that salafi's are the most hated, devient and evil people on Earth so it was kinda strange to see them praying behind one.

This leads me to another interesting question, what is the official position of Deoband 'ulema on salafi's? Are they classed as devient? Because I'm getting mixed messages. Many of the people on this forum have fun bashing salafi's, but when I read the article on the Deoband website by mufti taqi usmani, he seemed quite respectful of salafi's.

So there seems to be a problem somewhere, we have a person who many of the people on this forum consider to be a devient anthromorphist leading deobandi's in Salah. It don't make sense to me. When the likes of Mufti Taqi Usmani says they are not devient, why do Deobandi's say they are. confusion 100%

Yeah brother. They are ignorance-driven people. May Allah give them Hidayya'

ameen, you know what comes to mind, when rasoolAllah (saw) was explaining to a man how the jews comitted shirk with Allah. The man said to the messenger of Allah (saw), "we never worshipped our rabi's alongside Allah" and then the messenger (saw) said, "Didn't they make halal haraam for you, and haraam halal, and didn't you obey them in this" and the man said "yes" then the messenger told him "this is how you worshipped them along side Allah".

[opelonafqe]

If that is the case how come they invited him to Deoband to lead them in Salah? and what are we meant to do when we go on Hajj?

The fatwa of the madhab is that if you know for certain that someone holds bida' beliefs like those who disparage the Sahaba or those who affirm a direction for Allah Ta'ala, then it is makruh tahrimi.

However if there is no other jama'ah then it is better to pray with the jama'ah than to pray alone, therefore you have when in hAjj it would be okay to perform salah even if the Imam does hold these beliefs, and Allah knows best.

[rammossyAcron]

Brother, May be this video will tell you what Shaykh Sudais db is. He quotes Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal ra about 'Ahlul Hadiths' in the start of his speech.

Unfortunately I do not understand Arabic. Can you please give an outline of the speech.

[cookiemonster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAyUe2ofQnY

Assalamu alaykum

Alhamdulillah thats a huge jamat there! is there normally a big jamat like this?

[TheDoctor]

Alhamdulillah, that the affairs of this Ummah are not in the hands of immature Muslims like us. The scholars don't brand eachother as quick as we do on internet forums. The concept of unity seems to be a very difficult one in our times to grasp. We are always under the impression, that when the elders are telling us to be more tolerant and united, that we're supposed to deny any differences and accept wrongs. But what they are actually implying is that we remain tolerant and united DESPITE these differences. May Allah ta'ala give us the tawfiq for that.

[opelonafqe]

Just noticed this bit while I was skimming through:

To commence, I would like to tell the participants in this conference that it would please me a lot if I could take part in this noble conference attended by many prominent scholars to share the celebration of the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Al-Jami`ah Al-Islamiyyah (Islamic university). Does anyone else find this just slightly ironic....?

[alfredtaniypnx]

Alhamdulillah, that the affairs of this Ummah are not in the hands of immature Muslims like us. The scholars don't brand eachother as quick as we do on internet forums. The concept of unity seems to be a very difficult one in our times to grasp. We are always under the impression, that when the elders are telling us to be more tolerant and united, that we're supposed to deny any differences and accept wrongs. But what they are actually implying is that we remain tolerant and united DESPITE these differences. May Allah ta'ala give us the tawfiq for that.

One of the best posts I've seen on this forum since I've joined.

[goctorsurger]

The salafi ulama read 8 rakats taraweeh. The aimmah of the haram read 20 rakats.
It seems there is a differance.

[Amomiamup]

Unfortunately I do not understand Arabic. Can you please give an outline of the speech.

Akhi here is the urdu translation of the speech of Shaykh Abdur-Rehman Al-Sudais DB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2_iohd2XIA

[epPtsDno]

Why do we adopt such a reductionist approach to these things. I once asked a Deoband Affiate scholar from SA about their dissagreement with Saudi Scholars. He said our disagreement is a scholastic one and there is a good relation between saudi scholars and US. These disagreement has nothing to do with laymen.
Allahualam

Akhi here is the urdu translation of the speech of Shaykh Abdur-Rehman Al-Sudais DB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2_iohd2XIA

[opelonafqe]

It has to be
made clear to them that giving Ta'wil (allegorical
interpretation) to Ayahs (Qur'anic verses) and
Hadith on the Attributes of Allah as was done by
some sects that ascribed themselves to Islam, is
an impermissible attitude that may neither be
followed nor acknowledged. Rather, people
have to be made aware of the invalidity of such
a trend and the fact that it opposes the texts of
the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Ijma` (consensus of
scholars) of Salaf (righteous predecessors). Deobandis actually acknowledged this tripe? He's supposed to be celebrating the bithday of the madrassa, but he's taking the opportunity to spew his propaganda...

Show of what unity???

[replrobin]

The aimmah of the haram

they would pray 8 rakah outside of haram if they were in other masjid. .

[Amomiamup]

Why do we adopt such a reductionist approach to these things. I once asked a Deoband Affiate scholar from SA about their dissagreement with Saudi Scholars. He said our disagreement is a scholastic one and there is a good relation between saudi scholars and US. These disagreement has nothing to do with laymen.
Allahualam

Well , the issue issue of Salafi-deobandi ties have two dimensions. The relations of Deobandi Ulema with the Saudi Salafis is a relation of respect and mutual understanding. A certain Tatbeeq can be drawn between the various issues of discord and a balanced approach can be adopted so they have adopted it. However , the situation in indo-pak is different. I am not well aware of the circumstances in india but in Pak , Shaykh Ehsan Elahi Zaheer ra was not an anti-deoband. He can be called the pioneer of Salafi Dawaa'h in pakistan. I never heard him showing any disrespect but since his Shahadat, when the matters came into the hands of Talib Ur rehman and co. they worsened the situation. From the other side , Maulana Ilyas Ghuman etc have adopted to a strict tone.
My assessment is that the "taqleed" war is helping nobody and both the parties are equally wrong in their extremist stances. Unlike the Saudi Salafis whose main focus is Aqeedah and the rejection of Bidaa'hs etc, the pakistani Salafis have based their case on "Taqleed" which i think is not a very appropriate approach.
Similarly , no sane person can ignore the following deeds of Ulema-e-deoband

1. Making a very good block against the Bidaati Barelvis whose darkness of ignorance would have taken over the whole sub-continent in the absence of Deobandi Ulema

2.Their struggle against Qadyaniat is unmatched. The 1974 declaration against Qadyanis was only possible with the endeavors of Mufti Mehmood ra , Maulana Ata Ullah Shah Bukhari ra etc.

3.The establishment of a vibrant and multi-dimensional block against the Rafidhis.

4.The establishment of a very disciplined Madrassah system and Tablighi Jamaa't.

5.Taking part as a major party in Afghan Jihaad.

[Amomiamup]

Deobandis actually acknowledged this tripe? He's supposed to be celebrating the bithday of the madrassa, but he's taking the opportunity to spew his propaganda...

Show of what unity???

We need to stop underestimating the unity of the Ummah. And if anyone had stood up and shouted something stupid, he would have been beaten to a pulp.

[replrobin]

Shaykh Ehsan Elahi Zaheer ra was not an anti-deoband. He can be called the pioneer of Salafi Dawaa'h in pakistan. I never heard him showing any disrespect but since his Shahadat, when the matters came into the hands of Talib Ur rehman and co. they worsened the situation.

sh.zahir was the pilar of the building, which cant be seen. sh, talib and others are its windows and door which are based upon the pillar.

[Amomiamup]

sh.zahir was the pilar of the building, which cant be seen. sh, talib and others are its windows and door which are based upon the pillar.

He was not as rigid and he was negotiable. He was a very learned man with an articulated understanding. As he was enjoying a good popularity in Saudi Arabia and other arab states, i am sure that he knew the delicacy of the matter when it was about Deoband. Sh Talib etc are dorks compared to him. Their main focus apart from "taqleed is shirk" is to malign the deobandi scholars in Saudi Arabia.
Read this to know how flexible shaykh Ehsan Elahi Zaheer ra was off the mic
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...3-2-2004_pg3_6

PS. The on mic bitterness of Shaykh Ehsan Elahi ra escalated since the establishment of "Sawad e Azam". He mentions it in his speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp8bQ...eature=related

[alfredtaniypnx]

Deobandis actually acknowledged this tripe? He's supposed to be celebrating the bithday of the madrassa, but he's taking the opportunity to spew his propaganda...

Show of what unity???

Ah, you're the guy who I was referring to in my earlier post you missed your oportunity man you should have been there in the audience so you could've made a stand against this devient guy preaching his devient aqeedah

earlier post,

I find it shocking no 1 in the conference stood up and started shouting "you anthromorphist Salafi, don't tell us about your devient aqeedah".

[opelonafqe]

Ah, you're the guy who I was referring to in my earlier post you missed your oportunity man you should have been there in the audience so you could've made a stand against this devient guy preaching his devient aqeedah

earlier post,

That's not the point akhi, he's the one basically addressing the deobandis present there and telling them their aqeedah is baatil...

[lionsiy]

Am I the only one noticing a condescending and lecturing tone in the speech?

Something which make you think its preparation on the lines of: "Ok, where are we going to give this speech? In India? Where a lot of bid'ah takes place and those deviants follow the Maturidi deviant 'Aqidah? Let's focus on these points and give them some mild Salafi da'wah".

My impression is that the scholars in the Indo-Pak seem very cautious on regards of the Arab Salafis and prefer to keep a low profile with their scholars and not engage in discussions; but this may sometimes give the impression of some sort of inferiority complex toward the "Arab scholars" taking one to stay silent instead of freely and openly expressing one's views.

A bit of the same reason for which the more "sober" Riyad as-Salihin in used for Arab Tablighis instead of Fada'il-e-A'mal, not to "scare" them away, while a more confident attitude may be seen to have bigger effects in the Da'wah amongst Arabs.

Sad to see that the respect and silence offered by many Deobandis isn't exchanged back but with declaration of deviancy of our Minhaj from many Salafi scholars.