[verizon]

Asalamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah,

As title says...deleted the text for somebody's sake.

[Sandvikla]

Wa alaykum salam,

May Allah guide him toward Islam. I realise this must be a difficult time for you sister. InshaAllah he finds guidance.

He should know that reading a translation of the Quraan which cannot capture the full message of the original and coming up with 'contradictions' is foolhardy. If he was sincere in wanting to seek the true message, he should first learn Arabic, then read it with an open mind.

Secondly, Quran cannot be read in isolation. There are abrogated verses and other ambigious ones which require the explanation of either hadith and/or the early mujtahid Imams. This is why taqleed is important. A non-Arabic speaker with nil knowledge of Arabic, hadith, the circumstances of revelation, the rules of abrogation (for both hadith and Quran) is hardly in a position to critically analyse the scriptutes (off a translation, no less!). His ego has gotten the better of him, unfortunately.

Perhaps if he were to list out the 'contradictions' he saw. That way we can address them.

[Spongebob]

Well, clearly he has rejected the idea of Allah's existance, so it would be logical to start with that first.

Ask him to pen down a refutation of the following article, which is from the best summaries of the mutakallimun: http://www.defending-islam.com/page272.html

was-salam

[Spongebob]

Just get him to refute the article I posted, and that will be a perfect starting point. It will indicate whether he is serious in his beleifs, and has actually thought it out.

[PheliarearY]

Since your brother has become a murtad,shouldn't your family be planning to kill him?

[55Beaphable]

Since your brother has become a murtad,shouldn't your family be planning to kill him?

No, that is something only a muslim goverment can do., If a murtad was in an Islamic state the state can do it. Individual citizens can not take the law into their own hands.

[PheliarearY]

No, that is something only a muslim goverment can do., If a murtad was in an Islamic state the state can do it. Individual citizens can not take the law into their own hands.

So that means that if her brother would have been living in an Islamic state, the state would have been duty bound to kill him if he professed his beliefs. I guess in that case the family would have to report it to the state in order to ensure that they kill their son/brother. BTW, where does it say in the Quran or the Hadith that the killing has to be done by a State. Why can't he be killed by his own family?

[24MurinivaMak]

Sw.

didn't read sister's post fully, because i'm mighty mighty scared of threads like these which could put me in doubt.

i humbly request sister Salikah to please delete what your brother has to say about Islam, please x 100

how I wish mods would do something so that threads such as these are not in the public domain but could be answered by the Ulema / Scholars like abuhajira, Saad & Mufti Husain and others...

Sis, get a scholar to visit your home and answer your bro, DO SOMETHING ANYTHING BEFORE HE BECOME THE FUEL ! MAKE DUA 24/7 ! SADQAH !

[Qxkmsxsx]

May Allah guide him. Ameen.

May be you should try and get brother DefendingIslam of SF in contact with him. Masha Allah, he's an expert on things related to this. His website (article frm it was posted by brother suleiman) is awesome. I'm sure he'll be on this thread soon anyway.

@ seekeroftruth2: Make your own thread for that discussion instead of derailing this thread. Youve asked similar questions before and been answered.

[PheliarearY]

Sw.

didn't read sister's post fully, because i'm mighty mighty scared of threads like these which could put me in doubt.

i humbly request sister Salikah to please delete what your brother has to say about Islam, please x 100

how I wish mods would do something so that threads such as these are not in the public domain but could be answered by the Ulema / Scholars like abuhajira, Saad & Mufti Husain and others...

Sis, get a scholar to visit your home and answer your bro, DO SOMETHING ANYTHING BEFORE HE BECOME THE FUEL ! MAKE DUA 24/7 ! SADQAH !

I guess your iman must be pretty weak to be scared of being in doubt because of a simple thread and what a person has to say about Islam.

[24MurinivaMak]

I guess your iman must be pretty weak to be scared of being in doubt because of a simple thread and what a person has to say about Islam.

Sw.

I'm scared of anything* & everything that could put my Imaan in doubt.

& only Allah SWT knows the strength of one's Imaan, my duty is to preserve and increase whatever I've got.

*those who are wary of the small things will InshaAllah will also be wary of the bigger things, thats how i see it.

[PheliarearY]

Sw.

I'm scared of anything & everything that could put my Imaan in doubt.

& only Allah SWT knows the strength of one's Imaan, my duty is to preserve and increase whatever I've got.

I agree that only Allah knows the strength of one's Imaan and we should try to increase it. BTW, really like the narration in your signature. How truly it reflects the Muslims of today.

[24MurinivaMak]

I agree that only Allah knows the strength of one's Imaan and we should try to increase it. BTW, really like the narration in your signature. How truly it reflects the Muslims of today.

Sw.

Glad you like it, I first read it on a column written by Yasmin Mogahed, a north american columnist who writes superbly on the prevailing conditions of the Muslim Ummah...

[verizon]

Just get him to refute the article I posted, and that will be a perfect starting point. It will indicate whether he is serious in his beleifs, and has actually thought it out.

Brother, he has said something, can it be privately sent to you? Seeing as some as brothers and sisters may not want to see it. Jazakum Allah.

[Qxkmsxsx]

maybe you can post his reply here: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-of-a-Creator

because the author of that article himself (Instructor) has been responding to any questions on that thread too, and in a lot of detail.

[verizon]

This is what my recently turned murtad brother has to say, please can you answer in detail? Jazakum Allah.

"Look sis, I'm not an Atheist, but an Agnostic. So you should know that I don't deny that God might not exist. The article you sent me was aimed at Atheists, and I've read it when I was a Muslim. I've read it again, and the sole aim of that article is only one thing:

"There must be a cause behind something"

I ask you, how can you be certain that the Islamic God is the cause behind something? How do you know that the Islamic God is the cause of the universe? Say if you're wrong, and it is the Christain God? Or the Jewish God? Or the Sikh God? Or the Hindu Gods? Or the Greek Gods?

Don't you see, that each religion has it's evidence in their own right? The only reason why you see the Islamic God as the cause, is because you're a Muslim. That is also why you see evidences from Islam only.

I ask you to please provide proof that your religion is correct. How do you know you are right? What proofs of your religion can you show me? I am open minded, and I will be glad to see your claims.

Open your own mind."

[verizon]

Wa 'alaikum asalam wa rahmatullah, Jazakum Allahu khairan brother. I have done so, may Allah guide us and never close our eyes after He has opened them. Ameen.

[f6HLLFcw]

This is what my recently turned murtad brother has to say, please can you answer in detail? Jazakum Allah.

"Look sis, I'm not an Atheist, but an Agnostic. So you should know that I don't deny that God might not exist. The article you sent me was aimed at Atheists, and I've read it when I was a Muslim. I've read it again, and the sole aim of that article is only one thing:

"There must be a cause behind something"

I ask you, how can you be certain that the Islamic God is the cause behind something? How do you know that the Islamic God is the cause of the universe? Say if you're wrong, and it is the Christain God? Or the Jewish God? Or the Sikh God? Or the Hindu Gods? Or the Greek Gods?

Don't you see, that each religion has it's evidence in their own right? The only reason why you see the Islamic God as the cause, is because you're a Muslim. That is also why you see evidences from Islam only.

I ask you to please provide proof that your religion is correct. How do you know you are right? What proofs of your religion can you show me? I am open minded, and I will be glad to see your claims.

Open your own mind."

Murtads tend to be irrational and you often can't reason with them. I ask you, how can you be certain that the Islamic God is the cause behind something? How do you know that the Islamic God is the cause of the universe? Say if you're wrong, and it is the Christain God? Or the Jewish God? Or the Sikh God? Or the Hindu Gods? Or the Greek Gods? Because the Qur'an is a literary miracle and Prophet Muhammad (saw) was a walking Qur'an and achieved things in his life unrivaled by any other founder of a religion.

The Qur'an also contains details about things which are highly unlikely to be known by any Arab merchant, literate or illiterate, in the 7th century. That Rasulullah (saw) was unlettered is even more of a testament to the miraculous nature of his message.

The Qur'an's compilation and preservation is a miracle of historical science, and the Muslims' pioneering of the empirical scientific method is the bedrock upon which all of modern society is based.

The sciences of Hadith which helped lead to these developments are probably the first major authentic historical record of the modern era. They also document numerous prophecies by Muhammad (saw) which have turned out to be accurate (even Wikipedia has a cursory listing of the major ones) with very few (to none) that have turned out to be inaccurate. The proper measure of a prophet is the ratio of accurate prophecies to inaccurate, with anything definitively being ruled out as inaccurate (if anything remains possible or has not yet come to pass, it isn't ruled out). Prophet Muhammad (saw) has no equal with regards to this among any other human being in recorded history.

The contributions to civilization (in general) by Islamic civilization is also a testament unto itself. Numerous advances in economics, welfare, military, and social reforms...

All of this happened simultaneously, rather all at once, as soon as Islam showed up on the world scene way back in the 7th century. Unlike other religions and civilizations, religiosity went hand in hand with worldly knowledge and development in Islam. Islamic thinkers and scientists were devout Muslims. As opposed to Greeks... Aristotle and the rest believed in one God, not the Greek pantheon. Or other major thinkers and scientists, many of whom abandon their religion when delving into the worldly sciences. Those who do not are the exception, whereas they are the rule in Islam.

If someone wishes to deny the otherworldly basis for Islam despite all this, there is little hope for them.

EDIT: One other thing. The Jewish and Christian God is Allah (aside from those who worship Jesus). The question there is of prophets (why Muhammad (saw) is the true last Prophet instead of Musa (as) or Isa (as) and all of the above is enough grounds to give Islam the edge in any comparison). After all, Islam had a Golden Age to rival any in human history. Christianity never had a Golden Age. They had a Dark Ages. Western civilization was in a Golden Age before Christendom (the Roman Empire) and after (Rennaisance, Enlightenment, modern day). So much for Christianity. Judaism is an exclusive club and not an option for most. It bears the most similarity to Islam aside from some philosophical/spiritual differences in the tone of the relationship between God and man in both religions (Islam focuses more on love of Allah and fear of Allah while many Jews I've encountered pride themselves on how they do not fear Him). If you've narrowed it down to the God of Abraham, Islam is without a doubt the Abrahamic faith still left intact today.

[V8V8V8]

I ask you, how can you be certain that the Islamic God is the cause behind something? How do you know that the Islamic God is the cause of the universe? Say if you're wrong, and it is the Christain God? Or the Jewish God? Or the Sikh God? Or the Hindu Gods? Or the Greek Gods?

Because the Islamic concept of God is flawless and makes complete sense whereas those of the other religions do not. The Hindu, Greek and Christian (with the Trinity - the biggest joke in human history) concepts are flawed with Shirk, something intrinsically opposed to the logical definition of God - can one God overpower another? If so the other is not God (as it is being overpowered) and if not, the first one cannot be God (as its power is useless in this situation). Pantheism is also a flaw in Hinduism, Sikhism, Christinaity and to an extent Judaisim too (those Judaism's concept is probably the closest to Islam's).

Apart from this, just compare the holy books of each religion and the Qur'an stands WELL-ABOVE ALL the others. What more do you need really?

[verizon]

I really tried with him. He asked for the proofs, I tried my best. The argument became hot as well. He mentioned some ahadith that he took very literally. I emotionally challenged him to produce a surah like that in the Qur'an- I told him to go and learn Arabic and do so. At the end of this chat that we had, we both cooled down and he said I haven't proven anything to him and that it has made him more worse. I kept on advising him to pray to the Creator, to just even say "if you exist", I don't think he wants to. He believes Islam has segregated him from society and things like that. We handshook and I managed to al hamdu lillah to ask him to write down his questions and I will forward them to the people of knowledge. I really hope he doesn't turn back. But he has said that after these answers he wants nothing to do with Islam. He doesn't want biased answers either. Later on, I regretted my stupid debate style and went to him and said that my actions do not represent the prophet sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam and that I am only human and I am imperfect. He understood al hamdu lillah. Just make du'aa for him, he feels Islam has been the worst time of his life- mainly due to segregation from society. May Allah forgive us all. Ameen.