[TheBest-Host]

Slm,

Ok...I'll sign up with them right now if someone can tell me some of the issues that they can help me (as a revert) with.

Not to nitpick or change the topic, but "revert" is a misnomer. Being born on fitrah does not mean we were born Muslims, as Shaykh Riyadh ul-Haq explains here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0trElMCi4o

As for the Murabitun, they focus very strongly on presenting Islam as the alternative to capitalism and democracy. Also, they tend to be very knowledgeable on western philosophy and history and use reference points that western Muslims are familiar with. Also, so far as I can tell, they are probably the largest group of converts in the western world. Their organizational skills are very admirable.

[Assunkkensatt]

As-salamu ´alaykum wa rahmatu'Llah,

I think that if you come from a background filled with discourses of an intellectual nature, you will be looking for a framework that encompasses that. Most local imams or murshids fail to encompass the finer points of philosophy, sociology, or even history and politics. Rather they stay within the comfort of the tradition of their ancestors. This is not to disrespect anyone, but if you do not come from that background it may be hard to feel at home. Similarly it may be hard for a lot of traditional Indo-Pakistanis to feel at home within the framework of the Murabitun. And it's all fine as long as it is within the limits of the Shari´ah.

The monetary system that has been forced upon us is batil according to most classical and acceptable definitions. They are working towards the monetary system of the Sunnah, this cannot be but commendable. Inshaa' Allah, once we have a valid monetary system to base our transactions on, we can also pay a Zakat that is considered valid and obligatory. Remember Zakat is a pillar. They are doing tajdid of a pillar!

They are also active in building an alternative society. Just look at Norwich, where the community has an Amir, a Qadi etc. While in the UK half of the (practising) Muslims are basically duped into thinking the Liberal Democrats are a decent substitute for an Amir.

Do I agree with the Murabitun on everything? No I do not. But I do give credit where credit is due.

wassalam

[angelxmagic]

Bismillah

1.Similar background - educated/ middleclass, learned and Experienced
If one is ‘educated and middleclass’ (experienced in what exactly?) but this does not mean the person is drawn to a specific group…
Most of the scholars of Murabit are in their late 50s or if not 60s. They witness various political upheavel in the west and East and their life experience as European gives them an edge over most
of us in certain aspects.
2. A lot of emphasis on building a community with meaning ( not like our desi lot with inarticulate, village mentaility).
If one is not desi (let’s say white like myself and many murabits) should one not still respect all cultures even if they have ‘village mentality’…
The social cohesion amoung the Desi is slowly being eroded away. The tribal tendency in a matter of time will be done away with. A strage allegence to The Surti, Baruchi, Sylheti, Mirpuri and even to the extent of village they are form have had a negative influence on the desi muslims. This even to an extent influenced some of the releigous establishment.

3. Common rational objecitive driven by Malaki fiqh (heavily based on Mumalaat- finanical matters)
No problem with that (it’s commendable.)
4. Reverts are looking for more then rituals so they find the tassawuf more to their liking. Dislike of literalism with all the pit falls.
But we also find ‘literalist’ reverts who do not agree with the concept of tassawuf in any form. (I do not necessarily agree with them.)
Vast majority of the revert with salafist orientation fell into it because there were no other credible people in their local area. There were no organisation like As-Suffa and if there was, there has been a tendency to desify making a revert more aloof from a community experience

5. Driven by conviction to better themselves individually and collectively
Does one need to belong to a group (movement or turuq) to achieve this?
Yes one does! To do things in Jammah rather then individually can be difficult specially if it is for a revert.
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Personally. If it was not for the scholarship of earlier luminaires of Deobandi scholar, I would have joined the Murabit. The arab experience dealing with contemporary world in the west has been very limited. Note: I am not deobandi! We all know the azhar experience in Middleast since late 70s.
Deobandis of earlier generation and murabit have many things in common. They are living as a minority and their response to the socio-economic and political response was measured. A far cry from many of todays loud mouth organisation driven by slogan.
Allahualam

Slm,

Jzk for sharing your views, some stuff for me to ponder over...

[Ecurrexchangess]

As-salaamu `alaykum,

Ma sha Allah.

Sidi Riyaaz, out of curiosity, where are you based?

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

[KatoabamyHant]

As-salaamu `alaykum,

Ma sha Allah.

Sidi Riyaaz, out of curiosity, where are you based?

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

Bro Riyaaz is based is Johannesburg South Africa, in fact his down the road from where im sitting at this very moment.

[angelxmagic]

As-salaamu `alaykum,

Ma sha Allah.

Sidi Riyaaz, out of curiosity, where are you based?

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

Slm,

Quick question: Does one have to follow Maliki fiqh in order to be Murabitun?

[Ecurrexchangess]

Slm,

Quick question: Does one have to follow Maliki fiqh in order to be Murabitun?

Wa `alaykum as-salaam.

Our brother Nomadic answered your question. You don't have to follow the madh'hab of Imam Malik.

If you are on Facebook, it is very easy to contact Imam Abdassamad Clarke, who you can forward any questions that you don't feel we fuqara can answer.

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

[Ecurrexchangess]

Bismillah
Imam Abdasamad clark is a very nice alim. May Allah grant him long life.
http://www.muslimsofnorwich.org.uk/

Amin! Not to mention, his work in the realm of translation is practically unparalleled. Of course, alongside Hajja Aisha Bewley.

Ma sha Allah.

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

[Siliespiriulk]

How accomodating of other views of the other madhabs are they(the murabitun).

I think it should be encouraged where different scholars do collaborate and share and mix with other scholars with other organisations. Sometimes,there is too much of a us and them mentality.

I think though,like many deobandis, I would find that situation that is on the opening page of the site(men and women sitting in such a manner)uncomfortable.

[Ecurrexchangess]

How accomodating of other views of the other madhabs are they(the murabitun).

I think it should be encouraged where different scholars do collaborate and share and mix with other scholars with other organisations. Sometimes,there is too much of a us and them mentality.

I think though,like many deobandis, I would find that situation that is on the opening page of the site(men and women sitting in such a manner)uncomfortable.

I am not sure what you mean by 'accommodating' - there are people in our amirates, and amongst our gatherings (which as usually open) who follow different madhahib.

Interesting reflection. I agree.

Yeah, I think many would, but one can see that the gathering is clearly segregated with women on one side, and men on another. Also, that kind of arrangement only happens during classes (of fiqh or`aqidah, etc.), which makes it easier for women to ask questions and not have to struggle to listen from up in the women's area.

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

[Siliespiriulk]

I am not sure what you mean by 'accommodating' - there are people in our amirates, and amongst our gatherings (which as usually open) who follow different madhahib.

Interesting reflection. I agree.

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

I think its great,that the murabitun have channelled their energies and time into reviving a particular part of the deen. I think there should be more collaboration with other scholars from other groups, in order to educate.

But the infamous thread of the murabitun and their view of the niqab would I feel turn alot of deobandi scholars away from them.

[Siliespiriulk]

I think it was more than a disagreement. but, I don't want to dwell on that. Just making the valid point of why collaboration does not happen on a wider scale.

I do think its a shame as I believe there are some really really good scholars out there, from other schools, who could offer alot to the deobandi flock. Not in terms of fiqh,but in many other issues. and of course vice versa.

How is life for muslims in norwich? normal to see men in the long thawbs and women in their abayas/jilbabs(never know what the things are called!)?

I think its healthy for Muslims to sample how other Muslim communities live. Might have to pop into norwich one day inshallah.

Nomadic,how has this friend adjusted to being a murid of shaykh saleem whilst also obviously having a connection to the murabitun? How does he handle the varying views of each stance on various issues. If this friend is/was married, and his wife was in niqab, how would they handle the massive difference in opinion? Lets face it,it was not a difference of opinion that the murabitun had against the niqab but a very very strong view against it with some harsh language.

[Siliespiriulk]

Mashallah he is coping well. his wife is of middleastern origin follwoing hanafi fiqh. She does not wear niqab and my friend says she is aware of the rules of hijab but can't force it upon her. It is her perogative. He is studying the Sufi Hadith under the guidance of Shaikh Saleem. I was surprised when he said he is a mureed as I was quiet apprehensive about Shaikh Saleems strict approach. It seems my friend really likes Shaikh saleem. He has read quiet a lot of their publication.
He is not a murabit but understand their stance in dealing with situation faced by reverts in the western context and like myself has a lot of respect. i remember sending him a small article on dress code. The imam clark said to me for a revert, talking of a dress code is premature specially when someone just entered into the faith. It is important they grasp the concept of deen first. The rest will follow. this is a pragmatic approach

Thats exactly what I mean due to deobandi's having a 'strict' stance on certain issues and if one is also involved heavily with other groups,it could cause confusion. Mashallah that is great that your friend is enjoying the company of shaykh saleem.

I think Imam Abdassamads stance on that is very pragmatic and practical. Sometimes, the outer aspects are given so much importance(to a new revert) that the inner aspects of faith,belief are put to the side and when the excitement dies down of being a revert, doubts start to appear as the foundation was weak. Also, if a person makes to many outer changes too quickly, he might find it hard to adapt amongst family and friends and thus more obstacles may come which could have been handled differently.

See this is where people such as Imam Abdassammad could play a key role within other communities who do not have many reverts and thus may not know how to handle the situation.

[Corporal White]

Thats exactly what I mean due to deobandi's having a 'strict' stance on certain issues and if one is also involved heavily with other groups,it could cause confusion. Mashallah that is great that your friend is enjoying the company of shaykh saleem.

I think Imam Abdassamads stance on that is very pragmatic and practical. Sometimes, the outer aspects are given so much importance(to a new revert) that the inner aspects of faith,belief are put to the side and when the excitement dies down of being a revert, doubts start to appear as the foundation was weak. Also, if a person makes to many outer changes too quickly, he might find it hard to adapt amongst family and friends and thus more obstacles may come which could have been handled differently.

See this is where people such as Imam Abdassammad could play a key role within other communities who do not have many reverts and thus may not know how to handle the situation.

The bold part above is not only applicable to the reverts , but also to any new recruit who recently join any Islamic group.

Often, the new recruit wants to get fit in with the group as soon as possible . So , he quickly acquire all the outer aspects of the group while remaining weak internally . To make the situation worse , the old group members think that the new recruit has fully embraced all the aspects of the group and start praising the new recruit without checking his foundation !!

Then what do you expect ? Burn-out , of course. Members are leaving the group even after 10 years !!

So , the age-old wisdom is that , make the basics strong ,make the root strongly embedded in the soil. Then the outer aspects , colorful flowers and petals , juicy fruits --all will come up in due time.

[pinawinekolad]

Are silver coins also available in Germany ?

Dinar dirham distribution in Germany is not through wakala network but hand-to-hand through community. You can contact Murabitun Ra'is: Abu Bakr Rieger in Germany

[angelxmagic]

Slm,

I posed a question on Sh. AK as Sufi's website 2 days ago (still no response), maybe someone who is murabit and browsing the forum can answer: 1) Can you be Hanbali in Aqeeda, Hanafi in fiqh and be affiliated with Murabitun?

[Ecurrexchangess]

Slm,

I posed a question on Sh. AK as Sufi's website 2 days ago (still no response), maybe someone who is murabit and browsing the forum can answer: 1) Can you be Hanbali in Aqeeda, Hanafi in fiqh and be affiliated with Murabitun?

Wa `alaykum as-salaam,

Sidi Riyaaz, the Murabitun isn't a club whereby one must meet certain criteria in order to be part of our work which is an effort to establish the Deen, in its entirety, in this time. To put it simply; yes you can

I would advise you to go to the Jumu`a Mosque of Cape Town and speak to Imam Habib Bewley.

Ma` as-salaamah,

Junaid Ibn Ahmed

[angelxmagic]

Jzk for clearing this up (you do get 'exclusive clubs' in Islaam), I am no longer residing in Cape Town, I am in JHB.

[AlistDakisa]

Bismilalh
Although I have no problem with Murabatun. It can be annoying constant insistant that everything should be in gold and silver. In my limited knowledge both Malaki and HAnafi schools have no problem with paper representaion of wealth as long as it does not replace the gold or silver. I think GF Hadad view highlights some this point.
Allahualam

Who will oversee those bankers so that they do not start practicing fractional reserve policy ?
I mean , paper representation of the wealth can lead to great financial debacle if proper safety checks are not implemented.

Where there is no Islamic government , then who will implement those safety checks ? So, I think , insistance on gold/silver seems to be full of great wisdom and pragmatic caution.

Would you please give us any web link of GF Hadad' view ?

[Corporal White]

Jzk for clearing this up (you do get 'exclusive clubs' in Islaam), I am no longer residing in Cape Town, I am in JHB.

I have found an interesting biography of Murabitun leader, Ian Dallas in this link.
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http://robertluongo.blogspot.com/201...mian-past.html

There is The Book Of Strangers, published in 1972, a novel that is about the search for knowledge and the awakening to Islam told in the form of a semi-autobiographical parable (Pantheon Books). There is Letter To An African Muslim (1981), which helped inspire a whole generation of South Africans to enter Islam at a time when apartheid still restricted the options available to most blacks. Shaykh Abdalqadir was the only white European who could freely walk the streets of Soweto, although the Apartheid regime banned both him and his book.
---------------------------

I would like to know if there is any interaction between him and the Deobandi scholars in South Africa.