[RuttyUttepe]

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[KojlinMakolvin]

As Salamu Alaykum

It is sad when we treat our fellow wives as if they are robots. If people strictly just go by what is contained in the fiqh works without using wisdom and rahma then they are doomed to failure. They rather follow the letter of the law rather than looking at the spirit of the law. Fiqh manuals are not instructions on optimal marriage but rather they are the bare minimum that one must do to make a marriage valid, and in most cases, issues that must be rectified if it goes before the Qadi.

If one looks at the marriage contracts of pre-modern times, women enjoyed full right to stipulate in their contracts clauses of divorce if their husband takes on another wife. There is in fact a book on the topic.

If one truly has taqwa and loves and respects his wife, he would take into account his wife's feelings before taking on another wife.

If he treats his wife simply as a "thing" then they would not even consult her and marry another one in secret.

I dont think the issue is about whether or not one is following a sunnah or not. It is not wajib or fard or even Sunnah mu'akada to marry more than one wife. It is simply mubah or permissible. These have strict conditions that are rarely met in contemporary times.

If one is living on welfare with one's first wife, you are in no condition to marry another.

What I see is not men attempting to follow the sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, they want to get a second wife for nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa.

The norm is for one to have only one wife unless one has the material wealth and taqwa to be able to take on more than that. We might have people who are wealthy, but we rarely see people of taqwa being able to take on such matters.

To make an important note, I am a man and I am married. Many of my teachers have recommended against people taking on another wife because people rarely meet the conditions to treat their wives justly and equally.

JazakAllah khair dear bother.

Much awaited post.

[gennickhif]

Most men cannot even handle one wife let alone 2. Many times desire for 2nd wife is just hot air, when the horse comes on the battlefield then the truth of the matter is known. Ppl now a days need music dancing and pills before they go to wife. Yet they desire 2nd?

Is it wrong to marry to control nafs? Isn't that why you marry in first place?

[mincbiori]

I agree with br Nawawi's post, that is, that is how a man should think.

However, shouldn't we Muslim women not look at this as something that is so evil? It's easy for us to accept yes it's a sunnah when it's something discussed, yet when it's about ourselves, it becomes something khabeeth. While the Prophet 's wives would welcome their new co wives into the family. We women always complain husband's aren't fulfilling our rights.. Are we fulfilling theirs?

A person who marries for pure nafsaani reasons ie shahwat, he'll get thawab because he is not committing zinaa! He could have committed zinaa but chose to opt for a halaal leeway. But instead in any way he is in the wrong in everyone's eyes.

I am a woman and I am married and I feel that stopping my husband from marrying another is stopping him from a right Allah has given him.

[RuttyUttepe]

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[glamourcitys]

As Salamu Alaykum

It is sad when we treat our fellow wives as if they are robots. If people strictly just go by what is contained in the fiqh works without using wisdom and rahma then they are doomed to failure. They rather follow the letter of the law rather than looking at the spirit of the law. Fiqh manuals are not instructions on optimal marriage but rather they are the bare minimum that one must do to make a marriage valid, and in most cases, issues that must be rectified if it goes before the Qadi.

If one looks at the marriage contracts of pre-modern times, women enjoyed full right to stipulate in their contracts clauses of divorce if their husband takes on another wife. There is in fact a book on the topic.

If one truly has taqwa and loves and respects his wife, he would take into account his wife's feelings before taking on another wife.

If he treats his wife simply as a "thing" then they would not even consult her and marry another one in secret.

I dont think the issue is about whether or not one is following a sunnah or not. It is not wajib or fard or even Sunnah mu'akada to marry more than one wife. It is simply mubah or permissible. These have strict conditions that are rarely met in contemporary times.

If one is living on welfare with one's first wife, you are in no condition to marry another.

What I see is not men attempting to follow the sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, they want to get a second wife for nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa.

The norm is for one to have only one wife unless one has the material wealth and taqwa to be able to take on more than that. We might have people who are wealthy, but we rarely see people of taqwa being able to take on such matters.

To make an important note, I am a man and I am married. Many of my teachers have recommended against people taking on another wife because people rarely meet the conditions to treat their wives justly and equally.

Such a ajeeb post wallahi. Ajeeb zamana aa gaya hai. I don't have the time to reply to your assumptions and self made rules that the norm is one. I would suggest you to please read Seerat un Nabawi, and the Seerah of Sahaba and the history of Islam before making new norms. And please read some tafseers too of Surah Nisa.

So all the sahaba were millionaires. Marriage is for gaining taqwa. If a person has one wife and still can't control his nafs in this day of Fahashi, wouldn't it be cruel to force him to just live with one wife? Ajeeb zamana aa gaya hai..

[KojlinMakolvin]

JazakAllah khair for everyones opinion

Discussion is not why marrying the 2nd wife. Its established clearly and Allah SWT has made it very clear to us. No one can object that. Discussion is about marrying a 2nd wife secretly.

That said.. I am having trouble with the following:

1. I dont see men following other sunnahs? But when it comes to this paritcular sunnah, they get defensive that its thawab and sunnah etc !
2. In the quest of quenching your nafsaani thirst, you are ruining the lives of your first wife and children from first wife.
3. You are risking the bonds, relationships, family dynamics, financial needs, the emotional trauma that your first wife goes through

The wife is a human too, if men can commit zina, so can the wife because of distributed attention among the wives! She can take the revenge out in any way she likes ! Especially because she was lied upon with all the hiding and secret marriage !Not all wifes will get tamed just because the man married a 2nd wife, the opposite reaction can occur too. If the wife takes drastic actions, who is to blame?

@Sister Sudoku - I highly respect your thoughts and ideas. But not all women think like you. The times of Sahaba were different, those were real men and real women. Real muslims. Our times are dark times..

[glamourcitys]

I disagree with many points raised by br Nawawi619 and sis with post #23.

Who decided the norm to be one? It might be a westerner norm but at least not the natural one. All the time when we have discussions on multiple wives, out of a sudden we encounter the barriers of "justice" and "equality". Why do we force something which is already known and to be abide by even in monogamous marriages? For an unsatisfied married man delving into sins are far more greater than perhaps neglecting just behavior - which he can reconcile now and then. Divorces are not only happening because husbands are headless of their duties, but also there are many cases where we have arrogant monstrous grumpy greedy wives who grossly neglect and leave their husbands unsatisfied. Yet all the time, they demand and demand and demand. This picture is not general, but such stereotypical wives do exist.

To my assessment multiple marriage breaks down this arrogance by molding and melting first wife into an ideal state of obedience, love and humbleness.

So what if man marries just for pleasure, something that he can't find at home with his first.

Well the main reason of marriage is to save your nafs from doing zina, in other words for gaining pleasure. Each and every person in this world marries the first time for this reason only unless he can get it for free without having to support a wife.

Secondly, if we just read Surah Nisa ayat 3:

Allah says that marry the women you like (who look good to you.. ) two, three, four......

So the norm is 2,3,4 and if there is a weak person by chance and he can't support more than one wife then he should stay with one.

So Allah is allowing you to marry for pleasure and we make it a crime to marry for pleasure.

[glamourcitys]

JazakAllah khair for everyones opinion

Discussion is not why marrying the 2nd wife. Its established clearly and Allah SWT has made it very clear to us. No one can object that. Discussion is about marrying a 2nd wife secretly.


1. I dont see men following other sunnahs? But when it comes to this paritcular sunnah, they get defensive that its thawab and sunnah etc !
2. In the quest of quenching your nafsaani thirst, you are ruining the lives of your first wife and children from first wife.
3. You are risking the bonds, relationships, family dynamics, financial needs, the emotional trauma that your first wife goes through

The wife is a human too, if men can commit zina, so can the wife because of distributed attention among the wives! She can take the revenge out in any way she likes ! Not all wifes will get tamed just because the man married a 2nd wife, the opposite reaction can occur too. If the wife takes drastic actions, who is to blame?

But thats ok, who cares about the long term problems and there consquences. We men just want to stay away from zina so we can marry another wife! yaayyyyy....

Please use your emotions where they are required, not in this aspect.

1. They get defensive because they think people might shut their mouths after they hear that they're doing it for sunnah.

2. Nafsani thirst in a legal way not illegal way. Allah has allowed it.

3. Didn't Allah know that the first wife will go through these things? Why did he allow it in the first place?

[KojlinMakolvin]

Please use your emotions where they are required, not in this aspect.

1. They get defensive because they think people might shut their mouths after they hear that they're doing it for sunnah.

2. Nafsani thirst in a legal way not illegal way. Allah has allowed it.

3. Didn't Allah know that the first wife will go through these things? Why did he allow it in the first place?

Brother read my post again, specially the bold part. I am not objecting at multiple marriages. I am objecting at why men marry secretly and what consquences it has.
Thats the title of the thread.

[ptolerezort]

One South African Alim wrote a nice detailed booklet about the subject of polygamy in the light of Shari'ah and current times. I need to get my hands on it again.

[glamourcitys]

Brother read my post again, specially the bold part. I am not objecting at multiple marriages. I am objecting at why men marry secretly and what consquences it has.
Thats the title of the thread.

ok sorry.

Well men marry secretly for two reasons only:

1. They are cowards
2. Their wives, their society, their relatives don't allow it and they don't think good of them.

So those wives who say we will take divorces etc, do they want their husbands to lust after othe women all their lives and not let them marry?

[gennickhif]

I told u its done secret SOMETIMES so first wife don't go into shock - "hey I found a 20 year old girl u knw so and so? Ya, his daughter. I have my nikkah with her fri u can come." Doesn't sound too good.

But "hey r u happy?" "Of course I am ure the best husband." "Ok well for the past year I had 2nd wife, u know so and so? Ya, his daughter." Its easier to deal with.

Ijazat not needed itteyla is needed.

[wowwieholmes]

Ijazat not needed itteyla is needed.

that's the answer i was looking for. so in Islam the man should let know his first wife about his 2nd marriage.

[pepBarihepe]

As Salamu Alaykum

It is sad when we treat our fellow wives as if they are robots. If people strictly just go by what is contained in the fiqh works without using wisdom and rahma then they are doomed to failure. They rather follow the letter of the law rather than looking at the spirit of the law. Fiqh manuals are not instructions on optimal marriage but rather they are the bare minimum that one must do to make a marriage valid, and in most cases, issues that must be rectified if it goes before the Qadi.

If one looks at the marriage contracts of pre-modern times, women enjoyed full right to stipulate in their contracts clauses of divorce if their husband takes on another wife. There is in fact a book on the topic.

If one truly has taqwa and loves and respects his wife, he would take into account his wife's feelings before taking on another wife.

If he treats his wife simply as a "thing" then they would not even consult her and marry another one in secret.

I dont think the issue is about whether or not one is following a sunnah or not. It is not wajib or fard or even Sunnah mu'akada to marry more than one wife. It is simply mubah or permissible. These have strict conditions that are rarely met in contemporary times.

If one is living on welfare with one's first wife, you are in no condition to marry another.

What I see is not men attempting to follow the sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, they want to get a second wife for nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa.

The norm is for one to have only one wife unless one has the material wealth and taqwa to be able to take on more than that. We might have people who are wealthy, but we rarely see people of taqwa being able to take on such matters.

To make an important note, I am a man and I am married. Many of my teachers have recommended against people taking on another wife because people rarely meet the conditions to treat their wives justly and equally.

If one is living on welfare with one's first wife, you are in no condition to marry another.

What I see is not men attempting to follow the sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, they want to get a second wife for nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa.

The norm is for one to have only one wife unless one has the material wealth and taqwa to be able to take on more than that. We might have people who are wealthy, but we rarely see people of taqwa being able to take on such matters.

To make an important note, I am a man and I am married. Many of my teachers have recommended against people taking on another wife because people rarely meet the conditions to treat their wives justly and equally.[/QUOTE]



If one is living on welfare with one's first wife, you are in no condition to marry another.

What I see is not men attempting to follow the sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, they want to get a second wife for nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa.

The norm is for one to have only one wife unless one has the material wealth and taqwa to be able to take on more than that. We might have people who are wealthy, but we rarely see people of taqwa being able to take on such matters.

To make an important note, I am a man and I am married. Many of my teachers have recommended against people taking on another wife because people rarely meet the conditions to treat their wives justly and equally.[/QUOTE].................Mashallah well said .and whats worse is even when the woman he marries is on welfare and has kids from another previous marriage .they think tht shes not entitled to maintenance

[gennickhif]

Br can you render it into plain English?

Is "Nikkah" an Arabic word with emphasis for Nikah, which means double Nikah or second Nikah? Also, What does itteyla mean?

No sorry I just type nikah as nikkah or nikah or whatever. Itteyla means inform. You gotta inform 1st wife so in case someone sees you out at the park or mall getting ice cream with 2nd wife they dont get the wrong idea and pass along wrong information like you are kickin it with another woman etc.

Lots of these amish and mormon people here in USA practicing polygamy at large scale, just youtube it, 2-3 wives and like 10-15 kids. And those who are not practicing polygamy just keep mistresses who they use and abuse. When something becomes cheap and readily available then its often used and abused, taken for granted. But in nikkah, or nikah, when there is a responsibility and love aspect to it, then its appreciated and valued.

But again dont take fusus words in the wrong way, keeping 1 wife is a big responsibility. A guy first has to prove himself in the test of 1 wife before he can progress forward. Getting 2nd wife is not for common man I dont think, its a very delicate balance most men in this age I dont think can do, they are still too busy hanging out at restaurants with their "boys" or playing nintendo or playing with a bat and ball. People who properly keep 2 wives seem like they are really on top of their game, usually scholars mashaikh or very knowledgeable people/muttaqi/have worldly means going well also. Thats what fusus thinks. You need to have a good muttaqi head on your shoulders before you do something like this else you could possibly ruin a lot of lives.

[gennickhif]

What do you mean nafsi reasons not in terms of taqwa? So taking on means that help curb nafs desires is out of taqwa? So if I fast non stop for the next 6 months to control my desire would you say I am fasting for nafsi reason and not for taqwa? What is a taqwa-fied reason for getting married?

Maybe we have a hollywood bollywood idea of marriage, as in we marry for love? Love is for Allah swt. Allah swt says "ok if you love Me then treat your wife in such and such way, take care of her in such and such way" then we turn to the wife and treat our wife and take care of her in the way Allah swt wants us to, because we love Allah swt. Now, obviously, from spending such intimate time with wife we will develop love for her too, and its ok to love your wife but love for Allah swt should be most dominant in the heart. Anything, including nafsani desires, that can come in the way of this love should be dealt with. If a person is finding it hard to control himself despite having 1 wife then he needs to look at his options and see what is realistic. Sometimes its not even about his own nafsi desires; what if his wife just cannot keep up with his demands? Thats another angle and aspect. So this issue is not just white or black, there are many shades of grey we have to look at. What about all those girls who are sitting home collecting dust wanting pious guys and these guys have already been married years ago? Should those girls just settle at whatever they get? I am an advocate of keeping our society pure and clean. I dont like social evils and I believe that Islam has given practical means, cures, for every social problem. We just mess those means up and further perpetuate the problems.

[feAilei1]

I told u its done secret SOMETIMES so first wife don't go into shock - "hey I found a 20 year old girl u knw so and so? Ya, his daughter. I have my nikkah with her fri u can come." Doesn't sound too good.

But "hey r u happy?" "Of course I am ure the best husband." "Ok well for the past year I had 2nd wife, u know so and so? Ya, his daughter." Its easier to deal with.

Ijazat not needed itteyla is needed.

With all due respect, it may be easier for the husband to deal with the wife's reaction if he's had a year of enjoying his 2nd wife, but it won't necessarily be easier for the wife.

I've seen one sister completely lose her mind after her husband married secretly. She found out less than a week later, but she went completely insane.

Just imagine how it is for the sister who now knows that her husband has lied to her and kept a HUGE secret from her for an entire year. She knows that there are other people in her family, possibly his family, friends, and acquaintances who have known and didn't tell her. So now, this sister can't trust her husband, her family, his family, the people she considered her friends, the entire community. Maybe even her children if her husband allowed the children to meet the 2nd wife but had them keep it a secret. She's been lied to and betrayed by every person she knows. And it was carried out for an entire year or however long.... How is that easier?

Again, it may be easier for the husband, but it will most likely NOT be easier for the wife.

Being upfront is the best way. Yes, it takes more COURAGE, STRENGTH, PATIENCE, GENTLENESS, KINDNESS, and LOVE from the husband to do it this way, but if he wants more than one wife he'll have to have ample levels of those anyway.

If any man is too much of a coward and not man enough to be upfront about it, then he is probably not man enough to be a husband to more than one wife in the first place.

There is also the issue of fairness and justice. Unless the brother is normally away from his 1st family 1/2 of the time(for ex: working away in another city for 6 months then home for 6 months, etc.) it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for him to maintain any kind of fairness and uphold the wives' rights to equal time.

[gennickhif]

With all due respect, it may be easier for the husband to deal with the wife's reaction if he's had a year of enjoying his 2nd wife, but it won't necessarily be easier for the wife.

I've seen one sister completely lose her mind after her husband married secretly. She found out less than a week later, but she went completely insane.

Just imagine how it is for the sister who now knows that her husband has lied to her and kept a HUGE secret from her for an entire year. She knows that there are other people in her family, possibly his family, friends, and acquaintances who have known and didn't tell her. So now, this sister can't trust her husband, her family, his family, the people she considered her friends, the entire community. Maybe even her children if her husband allowed the children to meet the 2nd wife but had them keep it a secret. She's been lied to and betrayed by every person she knows. And it was carried out for an entire year or however long.... How is that easier?

Again, it may be easier for the husband, but it will most likely NOT be easier for the wife.

Being upfront is the best way. Yes, it takes more COURAGE, STRENGTH, PATIENCE, GENTLENESS, KINDNESS, and LOVE from the husband to do it this way, but if he wants more than one wife he'll have to have ample levels of those anyway.

If any man is too much of a coward and not man enough to be upfront about it, then he is probably not man enough to be a husband to more than one wife in the first place.

There is also the issue of fairness and justice. Unless the brother is normally away from his 1st family 1/2 of the time(for ex: working away in another city for 6 months then home for 6 months, etc.) it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for him to maintain any kind of fairness and uphold the wives' rights to equal time.

This is true, the best way is to be up front about it. Fusus does not encourage secrecy but was just explaining the logic guys have behind it. The question was why men do it secretly.

[joOEMcheapSOFTWARE]

A man has a right to marry more than one, and doesn't need to inform his wife, at least according to Hanafi madhab but it would be difficult keeping it secret and fair at the same time though, right? I mean, looks easy on paper but in practice...

In the case of a man who marries secretly but does injustice between his wives, then he is accountable to Allah

In the case of a man who marries secretly but does justice between his wives, then everyone's happy (I think).