LOGO
Reply to Thread New Thread
Old 04-17-2011, 08:33 AM   #1
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default Imam Malik's(rah) harsh words towards Imam Abu Hanifa(rah)
Salam Aleykum,

I was reading this article and I came across these really harsh words from Malik to Abu Hanifa in the book Al-Du'afaa by al-Aqeeli and al-Kamil of Ibn 'Uday...

كما أن الإمام مالك –غفر الله له– قد طعن بشدة في الإمام أبي حنيفة بغير أن يذكر سبباً. قال مالك (كما في كامل ابن عدي 7|6): «الداء العضال: الهلاك في الدين. وأبو حنيفة من الداء العضال». أقول: حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل. أيكون فقه الإمام أبي حنيفة هو هلاكاً للدين؟ فما حكم المسلمين الذين يعتنقون مذهبه؟ وقال مالك بن أنس (كما في ضعفاء العقيلي 4|281): «إن أبا حنيفة كادَ الدين، ومن كادَ الدين فليس له دين». ولا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله. الإمام النعمان ليس له دين! هذا عدا عن طعن الإمام مالك بإمام الشام الأوزاعي، مما ذكره ابن عبد البر في كتابه السابق. Link: http://www.ibnamin.com/malik.htm

What exactly was Imam Malik's (rah) problem with Imam Abu Hanifa (rah)? was there a specific reason?

I need a scholarly answer to say the least.
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 08:45 AM   #2
oxinsnepe

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
489
Senior Member
Default
as salamu alaikum,

There are many examples of this throughout Islamic history. Abu Hanifah just gets picked on the most for whatever reason. Refer to http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=608

إيقاظ 25
oxinsnepe is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 09:02 AM   #3
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
as salamu alaikum,

There are many examples of this throughout Islamic history. Abu Hanifah just gets picked on the most for whatever reason. Refer to http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=608

إيقاظ 25
Salam Aleykum,

You're right, it's the people who stand out the most that get piked on usually...still what boggles my mind is "Why?" Does it have anything to do with Jahmiyyah and the creation of the Quran?

I downloaded the book, seems to be about the Jarh and Ta'adeel of the Rijal, should be an interesting read... or I'll just skip to Abu Hanifa's Chapter.
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 09:29 AM   #4
oxinsnepe

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
489
Senior Member
Default
Salam Aleykum,

You're right, it's the people who stand out the most that get piked on usually...still what boggles my mind is "Why?" Does it have anything to do with Jahmiyyah and the creation of the Quran?

I downloaded the book, seems to be about the Jarh and Ta'adeel of the Rijal, should be an interesting read... or I'll just skip to Abu Hanifa's Chapter.


If you read from p. 187 onwards "رد الجرح الصادر من تعصب أو عداوة أو منافرة" you will get general guidelines on how to deal with these types of statements. I did a translation here, but you would be better off reading the original, of course.

Afterward, you can check out the parts of the book that deal specifically with Abu Hanifah if you wish.
oxinsnepe is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 09:32 AM   #5
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default


If you read from p. 87 onwards "رد الجرح الصادر من تعصب أو عداوة أو منافرة" you will get general guidelines on how to deal with these types of statements. I did a translation here, but you would be better off reading the original, of course.

Afterward, you can check out the parts of the book that deal specifically with Abu Hanifah if you wish.
I am reading إيقاظ 24 found on page 183 and it seems al-Aqeeli has a bit of a problem himself.

Inchallah I'll check out the rest in a while, thanks bro.
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 09:44 AM   #6
nmnrIjGB

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
356
Senior Member
Default
I think this interesting event can contribute:

http://maarifah0.blogspot.com/2009/0...-imam-abu.html
nmnrIjGB is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
ptolerezort

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
432
Senior Member
Default


Or you could read what other Imams have said (including Imam Malik ) about Aba Hanifa from Uqudul Jamman ...

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ristical+skill
ptolerezort is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 12:20 PM   #8
nmnrIjGB

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
356
Senior Member
Default


Or you could read what other Imams have said (including Imam Malik ) about Aba Hanifa from Uqudul Jamman ...

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ristical+skill
Oh that book, I remember someone promised to scan and share it here on SF. Am I dreaming?
nmnrIjGB is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 04:50 PM   #9
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
السلام عليكم

For the love of God brothers what is the sources of this!?

Al-Layth went to Imam Abu-Hanifa who said, “I debated hundreds of men, but have never seen a man accept the truth as fast as him(Malik).”

Brother veranda your article is good but sourceless...

@Suleiman,

That's a good book, I found this interesting:
محمد بن أيوب بن الضريس، حدثنا أحمد بن الصباح، سمعت الشافعي قال: قيل لمالك: هل رأيت أبا حنيفة؟ قال: نعم. رأيت رجلا لو كلمك في هذه السارية أن يجعلها ذهبا لقام بحجته.
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 05:45 PM   #10
Drugsonl

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
531
Senior Member
Default
Oh that book, I remember someone promised to scan and share it here on SF. Am I dreaming?
lol, the whole book or the chapter in which ulamas praise about imam abu hanifa(rh) present?
Drugsonl is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 06:01 PM   #11
Scukonahuy

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
401
Senior Member
Default


I recommend you to read the book,
Al-Intiqâ' fî Fadâ'il al-Thalâthat al-A'immat al-Fuqahâ' Mâlik wal-Shâfi`î wa Abî Hanîfa ("The Hand-Picked Excellent Merits of the Three Great Jurisprudent Imâms: Mâlik, Shâfi`î, and Abű Hanîfa").

by

Hafidh Ibn Abdul Barr Yűsuf ibn `Abd Allâh ibn Muhammad Ibn `Abd al-Barr, Abű `Umar al-Namarî al-Andalusî al-Qurtubî al-Mâlikî (368-463). A major hadîth Master of the Mâlikî School. Better known as Bukhari of the West.



Shamela edition: http://shamela.ws/index.php/book/6733


download: http://www.archive.org/download/alin...dail-aimma.pdf



الانتقاء في فضائل الائمة الثلاثة الفقهاء
مالك بن انس والشافعي وابي حنيفة

للامام الحافظ ابي عمر يوسف بن عبد البر الاندلسي

اعتنى به عبد الفتاح ابو غدة

الناشر مكتب المطبوعات الاسلامية بحلب الطبعة الاولى 1417 هـ
Scukonahuy is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 06:52 PM   #12
ptolerezort

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
432
Senior Member
Default
lol, the whole book or the chapter in which ulamas praise about imam abu hanifa(rh) present?
Me thoughts you were gonna do the whole book, too.
ptolerezort is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 07:37 PM   #13
Drugsonl

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
531
Senior Member
Default
Me thoughts you were gonna do the whole book, too.
will do next weekend inshallah.
Drugsonl is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 11:09 PM   #14
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
Mashallah, Abdul-Hussein I'll take a look at ur book later inchallah.

for the time being I am specifically asking for this:
He went to Imam Malik and asked him. Malik wiped his sweat and said, “By Allah, Abu-Hanifa made me sweat. By Allah, he is a true jurist. I’ve never seen a man debating like that. By Allah, if he told you that this iron rod is made out of gold, he would convince you.”

Al-Layth went to Imam Abu-Hanifa who said, “I debated hundreds of men, but have never seen a man accept the truth as fast as him.”


What's the source of this!?
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-17-2011, 11:57 PM   #15
nmnrIjGB

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
356
Senior Member
Default
Mashallah, Abdul-Hussein I'll take a look at ur book later inchallah.

for the time being I am specifically asking for this:
He went to Imam Malik and asked him. Malik wiped his sweat and said, “By Allah, Abu-Hanifa made me sweat. By Allah, he is a true jurist. I’ve never seen a man debating like that. By Allah, if he told you that this iron rod is made out of gold, he would convince you.”

Al-Layth went to Imam Abu-Hanifa who said, “I debated hundreds of men, but have never seen a man accept the truth as fast as him.”


What's the source of this!?
I found this bit: The article is, they say, from:

"almarjaan fi manaaqib abi haniefata an nu’man written by sheikh abu sallih ad damishqi as shaafiee"

Can you verify it with its original Arabic edition - if there is any?
nmnrIjGB is offline


Old 04-18-2011, 12:26 AM   #16
AgJ5mNXM

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
339
Senior Member
Default

Mashallah, Abdul-Hussein
hey bro you're reading too much shi'i stuff it seems
AgJ5mNXM is offline


Old 04-18-2011, 12:40 AM   #17
Scukonahuy

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
401
Senior Member
Default
The arabic text matn is



الإمام مالك بعد لقائه بأبي حنيفة:

لما خرج الامام مالك رضي الله عنه من مناظرة ابي حنيفة سال الليث بن سعد وقال لمالك: كيف وجدت أبا حنيفة؟ فأخرج مالك منديلاً ومسح عرقه،
وقال له: عرقت والله يا ليث، عرقت من أبي حنيفة، والله يا ليث إنه لفقيه يا مصري، والله يا ليث ما رأيت أحداً يناظر كهذا الرجل، والله لو قال لكم أن هذا العمود من الحديد ذهب لأقنعكم برأيه،
ثم ذهب الليث لأبي حنيفة، فقال أبو حنيفة: ناظرت المئات من الرجال، ما رأيت أحداً أسرع في قبول الحق من مالك، والله يا ليث لقد أحببته.
أما الأفعال فبعد هذا اللقاء حدثت أفعال جميلة جداً،
فأبو حنيفة أرسل ابنه إلى المدينة ليتعلم فقه مالك،
وكذلك مالك طلب كتب أبي حنيفة، ويقول: لأنتفع بها، وعقد محمد بن الحسن تلميذ أبي حنيفة دروساً في العراق يعرف الناس بفقه مالك؛ فيمتلئ المسجد فلا يوجد موضع قدم.
أرسل أبو حنيفة لمالك وقال له: إن لنا رأياً في أمر ولا أحب أن أقوله للناس حتى أسأل عن رأيك فيه، فقال: ما هو؟ قال: أنا لا أكفر المسلمين بالمعاصي، فقال له مالك: وأنا على ما تقول، فقال أبو حنيفة: إذاً أنشرها بين الناس، فضحك ليث بعد أن سمع هذه الحكاية وقال: وهذا من ذكاء أبي حنيفة، فبعد هذا اللقاء كانت هناك رسائل متبادلة بين الإمام مالك والإمام أبي حنيفة والليث بن سعد.
جاء المنصور خليفة المسلمين مالكاً، وكان يكره أبا حنيفة، فجاء يعرض عليه أن يلغي كل المذاهب الفقهية الأخرى ويعمم فقه الإمام مالك، فنحن لا نعرف نيته، أرأى أنه من الأفضل للناس أن تتبع فقهاً واحداً أم لأنه كان يكره أبا حنيفة، فقال للإمام مالك: سنكتب كتابك بماء الذهب ونعلقه في الكعبة، ونأمر الناس في كل البلاد أن يتبعوا فقه مالك، فقال مالك: لا تفعل، فقال: لماذا؟ فقال: إن أصحاب رسول الله تفرقوا في البلاد، وعند كل قوم علم ورأي وفهم، فإنك إن جمعتنا على أمر واحد تكن فتنة فلا تفعل، ودع الناس على علمهم، فقال مالك الحق وفي نفس الوقت لم يذُب ولم يفرض رأيه على الآخرين.





I don't know the source or the sanad.

A Brother in the thread mentioned source : "almarjaan fi manaaqib abi haniefata an nu’man written by sheikh abu sallih ad damishqi as shaafiee"

Uqud al-Murjan fi Manaqib Abee Hanifah al-Numan // عقود المرجان في مناقب أبي حنيفة النعمان
seems to be attributed to Abu Jafer al-Tahawi http://www.sunnah.org.sa/ar/sunnah-s...08-05-19-26-18
and http://islamport.com/d/3/fhr/1/16/188.html

may be عقود المرجان في مناقب أبي حنيفة النعمان is different than المرجان في مناقب أبي حنيفة النعمان
wallahu alam.


Abul Hussain = أبو الحُسَين

Postscript: http://majles.alukah.net/showthread.php?t=45461
Scukonahuy is offline


Old 04-18-2011, 12:52 AM   #18
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
Abul Hussain = أبو الحُسَين
LOOL I Swear that was unintentional, But it's not the first time if you remember
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-18-2011, 01:23 AM   #19
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
Ya Akhi al-'Aziz,

this is not Uqoud al-Murjan it's Uqoud al-Jaman

عقود الجمان في مناقب الإمام الأعظم أبي حنيفة النعمان: محمد بن يوسف الصالحي الدمشقي الشافعي مؤلف السيرة الشامية. مكتبة الشيخ. هادر آباد. كراتشي.

Uqoud al-Jaman fi Manaqib al-Imam al-A'azam Abi Hanifa al-Nu'uman, by Muhammad ibn Yusuf al-Salihi al-Dimashqi al-Shafi'i the author of "al-Seerah al-Shamiyyah", Haidar-Abad Karachi 1321 hijri.

I'll try to find this now inchallah.
insoneeri is offline


Old 04-19-2011, 01:01 AM   #20
insoneeri

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
362
Senior Member
Default
Salam,

It is obvious that Malik's (rah) problem with Abu Hanifa (rah) ended after he met him, As for the Hadiths of Malik's praise to Abu Hanifa that brother the Suleiman84 had translated into English I would love to read the original Arabic version of these... I hope the brother has them in Arabic so that he can scan the page or paste them in here.
insoneeri is offline



Reply to Thread New Thread

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:18 PM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Design & Developed by Amodity.com
Copyright© Amodity