[bikersfan]

Dear Brothers, Assalaamoalaikum

The Holy Messenger(SAW) said that the dead hear. This statement leads to the following question: What is the hearing distance of the dead? Do we know how the dead hear?

Second point: If I am a scientist and I want to explain something to a layman, would I be using very technical terms or would I be speaking in a language that the layman may understand. Did the Holy Messenger(SAW) use the word angels to facilitate the understanding of the layman?

Third point: If the Holy Messenger(SAW) does know who is taking his name at any point in time, would that mean that he has All-Encompasssing Knowledge as Allah(SWT) does?

Fourth point: Is it impossible for the Holy Messenger(SAW) to hear someone pronouncing his name?

Brotherly yours
farook

[bikersfan]

Dear Brothers & Sisters, Assalaamoalaikum

THREE DAYS GONE AND NO ONE HAS ATTEMPTED A REPLY. Yet, answers to these questions would solve quite a few problems we have been discussing.

Anyone?

Brotherly yours
farook

[MpNelQTU]

Hadith on the Hearing of the Dead - By Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani - http://deoband.org/2010/04/hadith/ha...g-of-the-dead/

[Reatclaplen]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

'Allamah 'Abd al-Hayy Lakhnawi (may Allah have mercy on him) writes in Al-Athar al-Marfu'ah,

الآثار المرفوعة ج:1 ص:45
ومنها ما يذكرونه عند ذكر السماع المحمدي إنه يسمع صلاة من يصلي عليه وإن كان نائيا من قبره بلا واسطة وهذا باطل لم يثبت برواية بل الثابت خلافه فقد قال النبي من صلي علي عند قبري سمعته ومن صلى علي نائيا أي بعيدا وكل الله بها ملكا يبلغني وكفى أمر دنياه وآخرته وكنت له شفيعا وشهيدا يوم القيامة أخرجه البيهقي في شعب الإيمان وأبو الشيخ في كتاب الثواب والعقيلي في كتاب الضعفاء وله شواهد بسط الكلام فيها السيوطي في اللآلئ المصنوعة وابن عراق في تنزيه الشريعة
“One of them [fabrications] is what they mention while narrating the prophetic hearing that he hears salutation of one who sends blessings to him without any mediation though the person is far away. This is untrue not supported by any tradition, rather the otherwise is proved. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: 'One who sends blessings to me near my grave I hear it, and one who sends blessings to me from far away place, Allah appoints angel who conveys it me, it will suffice him for his world and hereafter, I will intercede him on the Day of Judgment'. Narrated by al-Bayhaqi in Shu’b al-Iman, Abu al-Shaykh in Kitab al-Thawab and al-Uqayli in Kitab al-Zu’afa. This hadith was narrated by many other sources as well; it was more elaborated by al-Suyuti in al-La’ali al-Masnu’ah and Ibn Iraq in Tanzih al-Shar’iah.”

One such fabricated narration is found in Dala'il al-Khayrat, Anis al-Jalis, and Jala’ al-Ifham, etc.

[bikersfan]

Dear Brothers, Assalaamoalaikum

Jazakallah for the link to Respected Mufti Usmani (May Allah be pleased with him) article.

Respected Mufti Usmani (May Allah be pleased with him) writes:

The hadith of the chapter proves unequivocally that the dead hears the noise of the sandals of his companions. It is also authenticated from the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to a hadith that is to come shortly that he addressed the disbelievers from the dead of Badr and said to the Companions (Allah be pleased with them): “You do not hear better [than them] to what I say to them.” The two shaykhs [Bukhari and Muslim] transmitted it. From this paragraph it is noted that the dead hears, and even hears better than the living. Please note the last part in bold. The Holy Messenger(SAW) said that the dead hears better than the living.

Let us now go through the following hadith from Sahih al Bukhari (Book of Funerals):

Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri : Allah's Apostle said, When the funeral is ready and the men carry it on their shoulders, if the deceased was righteous it will say, 'Present me (hurriedly),' and if he was not righteous, it will say, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are they taking it (me)?' Its voice is heard by everything except man and if he heard it he would fall unconscious." Let us note here that the dead "speaks" BUT speaks in a way that its voice is heard by everything except man, and that if one could hear the voice of the dead, one would fall unconscious. And the speech occurs without a MOUTH! (HINT No.1)

We, therefore, have from the Holy Messenger(SAW) that (a) the dead hears better than the living and (b) that man would fall unconscious if man could hear the voice of the dead. Shall we meditate upon these? Understanding of these qualities of the dead is essential for us to try to answer the question "from how far can the dead hear?" May I give you a hint - it's not the physical body that hears or speaks; the physical body IS DEAD; it's the soul that hears (WITH or WITHOUT ears ? ) and speaks (WITH or WITHOUT mouths ? ). We are no longer in the physical, material world. We have crossed into what I call the “astral” world, the Ghayb, the Unseen. A world where “one day is equivalent to our 50,000 years” – (HINT No.2)

When we study the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths, we find that neither Allah(SWT) nor the Holy messenger(SAW) explains things that would be incomprehensible to a layman. And the Holy Qur'an is destined a priori to the layman - not to the elite.

Allah(SWT) States that He gave Sulaiman(AS) power over the winds, but does not say how. He says that Sulaiman (AS) understood the language of the ants, but does not say how. He says that one day in the other world is 50,000 years in our world, but He does not provide any explanation. He Says that on the Day of Judgment, our hands and feet will speak. But he does not offer any explanation.

In fact Allah(SWT) speaks a language that the layman understands. Allah(SWT) speaks the language of man. He even uses similitudes to convey His messages to man, thus

Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call,(27:80),
and
.. but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.(35:22)

because for man

Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. (35:22)

Allah(SWT) is speaking of those who do not want to listen or to hear the Message that the Holy Messenger(SAW) is transmitting. He is speaking of those who do not want to understand. And to drive this message into the mind of man, He uses an example easily understood by Man.
But since Allah(SWT) is the One Who provides guidance, He says

Allah can make any that He wills to hear; (35:22)

that is to understand His Message.

Wouldn’t we be right then to say that the Holy Messenger(SAW) followed the same principle as his Raab, Allah(SWT). Similarly the Holy Messenger(SAW)'s mission is to bring the masses, and not only the elite, to Islam. Whatever he explains, he must necessarily ensure that his explanation is understood by one and all. Was it this very principle that made him say

'One who sends blessings to me near my grave I hear it, and one who sends blessings to me from far away place, Allah appoints an angel who conveys it to me, it will suffice him for his world and hereafter, I will intercede him on the Day of Judgment'.

Had he said that he hears anyone who sends blessings upon him, near his grave or from far, people would have doubted his words that he was human like them and / or he would probably have had to explain how dead he would be able to hear from far. Like his Raab, he spoke the language of Man, a language that people could understand. It was much easier for a man to understand that an angel had to bring the blessings to him. He himself said that the dead hears better than the living. We know that the living hears at a distance much greater than one metre . Consequently, since the dead hears better than the living, the dead hears from a distance greater than the distance from which the living hears. But up to what distance?

The question is: Who is right? Am I right or is the one who understands it in the literal sense right? It is clear that without knowledge of the Ghayb, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to know who is right or wrong. Our passion and bias take over although we have no perception whatsoever of the “astral” world. How easy it would have been if we could know HOW the dead hears? HOW the dead speaks with a voice that would cause a man to fall unconscious if man could hear that voice? We don’t, and yet we take firm stands – whether it be that the dead does not hear or the dead hears. Shrouded in ignorance, thus blind, we are nevertheless 100% certain that we are right and the others are wrong – to the extent that we slander others, we refuse to greet others or answer the greetings of others, and worse take over the prerogative of Allah(SWT) to declare others KAAFIR..

Haith Qudsi: Allah(SWT) Says:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.
When Allah(SWT) Says “When I love him”, He does not say whether during his living or even when he is dead; when Allah(SWT) Says “I am his hearing with which he hears”, Allah(SWT) does not say whether during his living only or even when he has made purdah with this world; when Allah(SWT) says “ his foot with which he walks”,

Allah(SWT) does not say whether during his living only or even after death. Do we have the necessary knowledge to say with certainty that Allah(SWT) refers to “during his living” ONLY. Based on what? Guesses?

And suppose that what Allah(SWT) Says in this Hadith Qudsi holds good even after His servant whom He loves has made purdah with this world. Would then the Holy Messenger(SAW), His Beloved, have retained the qualities that Allah(SWT) would have conferred upon him during his presence in this world? In the affirmative, the Holy Messenger(SAW) would hear anyone sending salaam upon him from anywhere, and he would be able to see a group sending salaam upon him as if he were present at the place at which the salaam is being sent or he could even be present at the place itself. Remember one day in the other world is 50,000 of our years. Who is right? Who is wrong? Knowledge of the Ghayb is essential. And we do not have this knowledge.

And if the Holy Messenger(SAW) has in fact been blessed with such qualities whether in this world or not, would that mean that he, as receptor of certain blessings from Allah(SWT), has All-Encompassing Knowledge? Is such a conclusion not too hasty and superficial? Allah(SWT) permitted Issa(AS) to make the blind see. Does that mean that Issa(AS) had All-Encompassing Knowledge? Allah(SWT) sent Musa (AS) to Khidr (AS) to acquire Knowledge. Does this mean that Khidr (AS) had All Encompassing Knowledge. Let us remember that Allah(SWT) Says: “The Earth and the Ocean cannot Encompass Me, but the Heart of My Servant Can.” Or is it simply favours that Allah(SWT) Bestows upon His Chosen Ones?
Would such favours be interpreted as conferring upon the Holy Messenger(SAW) (or for that matter an Awliya) the attributes of Allah(SWT) – the All Seeing, the All-Knowing, the All-Hearing, amongst others?

He who taught (the use of) The Pen(96:4)
Taught man that which he knew not (96:5)

Allah(SWT) TAUGHT, and ,no doubt, will continue to teach until the Last Day. The Knowledge He imparts to His Servants differs from one servant to another. Is it possible that the more Knowledge Allah(SWT) Imparts, the closer one moves towards His Attributes? Allah(SWT) Invited the Holy Messenger(SAW) to see His Signs. That was Allah(SWT) Imparting Knowledge to His Beloved. That Invitation and that SHARING of Knowledge were reserved but for His Beloved. How close did the Holy Messenger(SAW) moved towards the Attributes of Allah(SWT)? Is it given to the Servants of Allah(SWT) to question whatever Gift(s) He wishes to confer upon any of His Servant?

On the Night of the Holy Messenger(SAW)’s Ascension, the Holy Messenger(SAW) met several former Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them) of Allah(SWT) at the farthest Mosque in Jerusalem. The following questions arise:
(a) The Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them) are supposed to be in their Qabr. How did they know that the Holy Messenger(SAW) had been invited by Allah(SWT)? Allah(SWT) Informed them? In which language did He Inform them?
(b) How did they reach the farthest Mosque in Jerusalem?
(c) The Holy Messenger(SAW) led them in Salaah. In which language did the Holy Messenger (SAW) conducted the Salaah?
(d) When the Holy Messenger subsequently ascended to the Heavens, he met the various Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them), each at his respective Station. How did they reach their respective Station before the Holy Messenger(SAW) did? The Holy Messenger was on The Buraq. What was the mode of travelling of the other Prophets of Allah(SWT)?
(e) In which language did the Holy Messenger(SAW) greet the others?
(f) In which language did the Holy Messenger(SAW) converse with Musa(AS)?

My dear brothers & sisters, we swim in a sea of possibilities and probabilities until Allah(SWT), out of His Pleasure for us, TEACHES us and CONFERS certain Gifts upon us. Till then, should we not end up with these words from the article of Mufti Taqi Usmani (May Allah(SWT) be pleased with him)
……” spoke about them with moderation and balance in which the hearts find rest and the chest finds relief”……..


Brotherly yours
farook

[pharmaclid]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


1) The soul is taken by angels to Allah SWT who keep it until the day of resurection.

2) The body go to dust.



Can you tell me how a dead body can Hear alive people ? how its possible ?

[Inenuedbabnor]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


1) The soul is taken by angels to Allah SWT who keep it until the day of resurection.

2) The body go to dust.



Can you tell me how a dead body can Hear alive people ? how its possible ?

you seem to have got it all wrong due to ur own ignorance

[pharmaclid]

you seem to have got it all wrong due to ur own ignorance

Ok if I am ignorant and if you are a good muslim, show me please.

Give me proof that I am wrong.



Thanking you in advance for your answer.

[bikersfan]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


1) The soul is taken by angels to Allah SWT who keep it until the day of resurection.

2) The body go to dust.



Can you tell me how a dead body can Hear alive people ? how its possible ?

Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum and Ramadhaan Mubaarak.

Ramadhaan Mubaarak to all my brothers & sisters on SF.

My dear Brother Stefane,

The body becomes dust. That's for sure. But, lest there is some misunderstanding, please do remember that Allah(SWT) may raise the body again. Hope, Insh'Allah, that you agree with this.

As regards the soul, don't you think that your statement is contrary to quite a few hadiths that directly or indirectly refer to the soul? I am sure that we would like to hear a little more from you regarding the journey of the soul - no doubt, not contrary to the hadiths mentioned above.

Notwithstanding above, if you go through my post at #5 above and take the time necessary to seek plausible replies to the various questions asked, Insh'Allah, my dear brother, you will certainly find some light to your question: "If Allah(SWT) Keeps the souls with Him, how can the dead hear?"

May Allah(SWT) accept all your ibaadah and du'a during this holy month of Ramadhaan. Insh'Allah.

Brotherly yours
farook

[pharmaclid]

Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum and Ramadhaan Mubaarak.

Ramadhaan Mubaarak to all my brothers & sisters on SF.

My dear Brother Stefane,

The body becomes dust. That's for sure. But, lest there is some misunderstanding, please do remember that Allah(SWT) may raise the body again. Hope, Insh'Allah, that you agree with this.

As regards the soul, don't you think that your statement is contrary to quite a few hadiths that directly or indirectly refer to the soul? I am sure that we would like to hear a little more from you regarding the journey of the soul - no doubt, not contrary to the hadiths mentioned above.

Notwithstanding above, if you go through my post at #5 above and take the time necessary to seek plausible replies to the various questions asked, Insh'Allah, my dear brother, you will certainly find some light to your question: "If Allah(SWT) Keeps the souls with Him, how can the dead hear?"

May Allah(SWT) accept all your ibaadah and du'a during this holy month of Ramadhaan. Insh'Allah.

Brotherly yours
farook

Assalam aleykoum brother,


RAMADAN moubarak you and all your family.


If we can speak when we will be dead and if we can hear, we can see we are alive , no ?

If we are alive, Allah SWT does not need to rise us from the dead.

Allah SWT rise from dead a dead people or alive ? because we can talk and hear ?????



Assalam aleykoum brother, I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, amin.


I will try to prepare a reply with verses of the Quran inshallah and give you proof thet the grave punishment also is an invention after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS.

[Inenuedbabnor]

Assalam aleykoum brother,


RAMADAN moubarak you and all your family.


If we can speak when we will be dead and if we can hear, we can see we are alive , no ?

If we are alive, Allah SWT does not need to rise us from the dead.

Allah SWT rise from dead a dead people or alive ? because we can talk and hear ?????



Assalam aleykoum brother, I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, amin.


I will try to prepare a reply with verses of the Quran inshallah and give you proof thet the grave punishment also is an invention after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS.

you need to be guided staphane. the punishment of the grave is proven from hadithes

[pharmaclid]

See the link below :


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...015#post512015

[bikersfan]

Assalam aleykoum brother,


RAMADAN moubarak you and all your family.


If we can speak when we will be dead and if we can hear, we can see we are alive , no ?

If we are alive, Allah SWT does not need to rise us from the dead.

Allah SWT rise from dead a dead people or alive ? because we can talk and hear ?????



Assalam aleykoum brother, I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, amin.


I will try to prepare a reply with verses of the Quran inshallah and give you proof thet the grave punishment also is an invention after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS.

My Dear Brother, Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

When we say that the dead hears, when we say that the dead can speak, we are referring to the soul and not to the dead body (the corpse) that, in general, becomes dust. So, the soul is still the soul. Only its envelope for this material world, the body, has died.

When Allah(SWT) Says that He will raise the dead on the Day of Judgment, He may be Saying that He will collect all the souls or He may be meaning that He will make the dust become body again and get the soul into the new body and raise us all alive as we are on this earth. I believe He is the ONLY ONE who has the answer.

But remember when Ibrahim(AS) asked Allah(SWT) to show him how Allah(SWT) would raise the dead:

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Behold! abraham said: "My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead." He said: "Dost thou not then believe?" He said: "Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking." He said: "Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."   (  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #260)

Regarding your allusion to punishment in the grave, may I ask you a question: What is your belief concerning the sahih collections of hadiths? Notwithstanding this question, I would certainly await your reply with proofs from the Holy Qur'an. Insh'Allah.

Brotherly yours
farook

[Theariwinna]

My Dear Brother, Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

When we say that the dead hears, when we say that the dead can speak, we are referring to the soul and not to the dead body (the corpse) that, in general, becomes dust. So, the soul is still the soul. Only its envelope for this material world, the body, has died.

When Allah(SWT) Says that He will raise the dead on the Day of Judgment, He may be Saying that He will collect all the souls or He may be meaning that He will make the dust become body again and get the soul into the new body and raise us all alive as we are on this earth. I believe He is the ONLY ONE who has the answer.

But remember when Ibrahim(AS) asked Allah(SWT) to show him how Allah(SWT) would raise the dead:

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Behold! abraham said: "My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead." He said: "Dost thou not then believe?" He said: "Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking." He said: "Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."   (  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #260)

Regarding your allusion to punishment in the grave, may I ask you a question: What is your belief concerning the sahih collections of hadiths? Notwithstanding this question, I would certainly await your reply with proofs from the Holy Qur'an. Insh'Allah.

Brotherly yours
farook

Assalam aleykoum brother Farook.


Its stephane again, but I changed my username.


I Will start with a verse in the Quran and tell me what do you understand.

Because my english is not quite good, if you understand french ? lol.

English Yusuf Ali: [18:49]And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.


Can you tell me whay personns are in great terror when they get their book ?

If they are terrified on that day, why they were not terrified in the grave ?


Verse 49 : and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror

Great terror how its possible ?


They were not informed in the grave following your beleif that they will go to hell, because in the grave they know if they go to hell or not ?


Do you know why they are terrified in great terror ? because before that day they have never known what will be their destination its the fisr time, nothing in the grave.

If you understand something else I will be glad to share with you for the truth.


Assalam aleykoum brother.


Once again, RAMADAN MOUBARAK to you sisters and brothers and all your family.

[Theariwinna]

Dear Brothers, Assalaamoalaikum

Jazakallah for the link to Respected Mufti Usmani (May Allah be pleased with him) article.

Respected Mufti Usmani (May Allah be pleased with him) writes:



From this paragraph it is noted that the dead hears, and even hears better than the living. Please note the last part in bold. The Holy Messenger(SAW) said that the dead hears better than the living.

Let us now go through the following hadith from Sahih al Bukhari (Book of Funerals):



Let us note here that the dead "speaks" BUT speaks in a way that its voice is heard by everything except man, and that if one could hear the voice of the dead, one would fall unconscious. And the speech occurs without a MOUTH! (HINT No.1)

We, therefore, have from the Holy Messenger(SAW) that (a) the dead hears better than the living and (b) that man would fall unconscious if man could hear the voice of the dead. Shall we meditate upon these? Understanding of these qualities of the dead is essential for us to try to answer the question "from how far can the dead hear?" May I give you a hint - it's not the physical body that hears or speaks; the physical body IS DEAD; it's the soul that hears (WITH or WITHOUT ears ? ) and speaks (WITH or WITHOUT mouths ? ). We are no longer in the physical, material world. We have crossed into what I call the “astral” world, the Ghayb, the Unseen. A world where “one day is equivalent to our 50,000 years” – (HINT No.2)

When we study the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths, we find that neither Allah(SWT) nor the Holy messenger(SAW) explains things that would be incomprehensible to a layman. And the Holy Qur'an is destined a priori to the layman - not to the elite.

Allah(SWT) States that He gave Sulaiman(AS) power over the winds, but does not say how. He says that Sulaiman (AS) understood the language of the ants, but does not say how. He says that one day in the other world is 50,000 years in our world, but He does not provide any explanation. He Says that on the Day of Judgment, our hands and feet will speak. But he does not offer any explanation.

In fact Allah(SWT) speaks a language that the layman understands. Allah(SWT) speaks the language of man. He even uses similitudes to convey His messages to man, thus

Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call,(27:80),
and
.. but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.(35:22)

because for man

Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. (35:22)

Allah(SWT) is speaking of those who do not want to listen or to hear the Message that the Holy Messenger(SAW) is transmitting. He is speaking of those who do not want to understand. And to drive this message into the mind of man, He uses an example easily understood by Man.
But since Allah(SWT) is the One Who provides guidance, He says

Allah can make any that He wills to hear; (35:22)

that is to understand His Message.

Wouldn’t we be right then to say that the Holy Messenger(SAW) followed the same principle as his Raab, Allah(SWT). Similarly the Holy Messenger(SAW)'s mission is to bring the masses, and not only the elite, to Islam. Whatever he explains, he must necessarily ensure that his explanation is understood by one and all. Was it this very principle that made him say

'One who sends blessings to me near my grave I hear it, and one who sends blessings to me from far away place, Allah appoints an angel who conveys it to me, it will suffice him for his world and hereafter, I will intercede him on the Day of Judgment'.

Had he said that he hears anyone who sends blessings upon him, near his grave or from far, people would have doubted his words that he was human like them and / or he would probably have had to explain how dead he would be able to hear from far. Like his Raab, he spoke the language of Man, a language that people could understand. It was much easier for a man to understand that an angel had to bring the blessings to him. He himself said that the dead hears better than the living. We know that the living hears at a distance much greater than one metre . Consequently, since the dead hears better than the living, the dead hears from a distance greater than the distance from which the living hears. But up to what distance?

The question is: Who is right? Am I right or is the one who understands it in the literal sense right? It is clear that without knowledge of the Ghayb, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to know who is right or wrong. Our passion and bias take over although we have no perception whatsoever of the “astral” world. How easy it would have been if we could know HOW the dead hears? HOW the dead speaks with a voice that would cause a man to fall unconscious if man could hear that voice? We don’t, and yet we take firm stands – whether it be that the dead does not hear or the dead hears. Shrouded in ignorance, thus blind, we are nevertheless 100% certain that we are right and the others are wrong – to the extent that we slander others, we refuse to greet others or answer the greetings of others, and worse take over the prerogative of Allah(SWT) to declare others KAAFIR..

Haith Qudsi: Allah(SWT) Says:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.
When Allah(SWT) Says “When I love him”, He does not say whether during his living or even when he is dead; when Allah(SWT) Says “I am his hearing with which he hears”, Allah(SWT) does not say whether during his living only or even when he has made purdah with this world; when Allah(SWT) says “ his foot with which he walks”,

Allah(SWT) does not say whether during his living only or even after death. Do we have the necessary knowledge to say with certainty that Allah(SWT) refers to “during his living” ONLY. Based on what? Guesses?

And suppose that what Allah(SWT) Says in this Hadith Qudsi holds good even after His servant whom He loves has made purdah with this world. Would then the Holy Messenger(SAW), His Beloved, have retained the qualities that Allah(SWT) would have conferred upon him during his presence in this world? In the affirmative, the Holy Messenger(SAW) would hear anyone sending salaam upon him from anywhere, and he would be able to see a group sending salaam upon him as if he were present at the place at which the salaam is being sent or he could even be present at the place itself. Remember one day in the other world is 50,000 of our years. Who is right? Who is wrong? Knowledge of the Ghayb is essential. And we do not have this knowledge.

And if the Holy Messenger(SAW) has in fact been blessed with such qualities whether in this world or not, would that mean that he, as receptor of certain blessings from Allah(SWT), has All-Encompassing Knowledge? Is such a conclusion not too hasty and superficial? Allah(SWT) permitted Issa(AS) to make the blind see. Does that mean that Issa(AS) had All-Encompassing Knowledge? Allah(SWT) sent Musa (AS) to Khidr (AS) to acquire Knowledge. Does this mean that Khidr (AS) had All Encompassing Knowledge. Let us remember that Allah(SWT) Says: “The Earth and the Ocean cannot Encompass Me, but the Heart of My Servant Can.” Or is it simply favours that Allah(SWT) Bestows upon His Chosen Ones?
Would such favours be interpreted as conferring upon the Holy Messenger(SAW) (or for that matter an Awliya) the attributes of Allah(SWT) – the All Seeing, the All-Knowing, the All-Hearing, amongst others?

He who taught (the use of) The Pen(96:4)
Taught man that which he knew not (96:5)

Allah(SWT) TAUGHT, and ,no doubt, will continue to teach until the Last Day. The Knowledge He imparts to His Servants differs from one servant to another. Is it possible that the more Knowledge Allah(SWT) Imparts, the closer one moves towards His Attributes? Allah(SWT) Invited the Holy Messenger(SAW) to see His Signs. That was Allah(SWT) Imparting Knowledge to His Beloved. That Invitation and that SHARING of Knowledge were reserved but for His Beloved. How close did the Holy Messenger(SAW) moved towards the Attributes of Allah(SWT)? Is it given to the Servants of Allah(SWT) to question whatever Gift(s) He wishes to confer upon any of His Servant?

On the Night of the Holy Messenger(SAW)’s Ascension, the Holy Messenger(SAW) met several former Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them) of Allah(SWT) at the farthest Mosque in Jerusalem. The following questions arise:
(a) The Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them) are supposed to be in their Qabr. How did they know that the Holy Messenger(SAW) had been invited by Allah(SWT)? Allah(SWT) Informed them? In which language did He Inform them?
(b) How did they reach the farthest Mosque in Jerusalem?
(c) The Holy Messenger(SAW) led them in Salaah. In which language did the Holy Messenger (SAW) conducted the Salaah?
(d) When the Holy Messenger subsequently ascended to the Heavens, he met the various Prophets (May Peace and Blessings of Allah(SWT) Be Upon Them), each at his respective Station. How did they reach their respective Station before the Holy Messenger(SAW) did? The Holy Messenger was on The Buraq. What was the mode of travelling of the other Prophets of Allah(SWT)?
(e) In which language did the Holy Messenger(SAW) greet the others?
(f) In which language did the Holy Messenger(SAW) converse with Musa(AS)?

My dear brothers & sisters, we swim in a sea of possibilities and probabilities until Allah(SWT), out of His Pleasure for us, TEACHES us and CONFERS certain Gifts upon us. Till then, should we not end up with these words from the article of Mufti Taqi Usmani (May Allah(SWT) be pleased with him)
……” spoke about them with moderation and balance in which the hearts find rest and the chest finds relief”……..


Brotherly yours
farook

Brother Farook.


See the verse bellow open your eyes wide and your herat to Allah SWT words :


English Yusuf Ali: [25:47]And He it is Who makes the Night as a Robe for you, and Sleep as Repose, and makes the Day (as it were) a Resurrection.


For Allah SWT, you I do not know SLEEP = REPOSE, do you agree with Allah SWT ?


Can you tell me what do you understand in the verse 52 ?


English Yusuf Ali: [36:51]
The trumpet shall be sounded, when behold! from the sepulchres (men) will rush forth to their Lord!


English Yusuf Ali: [36:52]
They will say: "Ah! Woe unto us! Who hath raised us up from our beds of repose?"... (A voice will say "This is what (Allah) Most Gracious had promised. And true was the word of the messengers!"


In the verse 52, men say who raised up from our bed of repose, they did not say our grave of punishment no ?

why they did not say they were punished in the grave, tell me ?

you see that grave punishment only in Hadeeths, lies spread on our prophete mohamed SWS after his death.

Please tell me why they are saying in the verse 52, they were like sleeping and not punished, they were in state of repose and not suffering.



If for you sleeping is equal to be punished you do not understand Allah SWT ??????


Please give me your understanding.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Theariwinna]

Another thing very important that we can not be punish in the grave.

English Yusuf Ali: [18:19]Such (being their state), we raised them up (from sleep), that they might question each other. Said one of them, "How long have ye stayed (here)?" They said, "We have stayed (perhaps) a day, or part of a day." (At length) they (all) said, "Allah (alone) knows best how long ye have stayed here.... Now send ye then one of you with this money of yours to the town: let him find out which is the best food (to be had) and bring some to you, that (ye may) satisfy your hunger therewith: And let him behave with care and courtesy, and let him not inform any one about you.



What is the aim of a grave punishment which we feel happen only one or a part of a days length ? tell me ?

English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.


I have made a mistake I wanted to put this verse not the surah 18 verse 19.

I apologize, do not pay attention to my post 16.


Can you imagine a grave punishment of one hour ? what is the AIM , the goal ?

[bikersfan]

Assalam aleykoum brother Farook.


Its stephane again, but I changed my username.


I Will start with a verse in the Quran and tell me what do you understand.

Because my english is not quite good, if you understand french ? lol.

English Yusuf Ali: [18:49]And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.


Can you tell me whay personns are in great terror when they get their book ?

If they are terrified on that day, why they were not terrified in the grave ?


Verse 49 : and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror

Great terror how its possible ?


They were not informed in the grave following your beleif that they will go to hell, because in the grave they know if they go to hell or not ?


Do you know why they are terrified in great terror ? because before that day they have never known what will be their destination its the fisr time, nothing in the grave.

If you understand something else I will be glad to share with you for the truth.


Assalam aleykoum brother.


Once again, RAMADAN MOUBARAK to you sisters and brothers and all your family.

Dear Brother Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

Please excuse me for the long delay in replying. Not much time during Ramadhan.

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Because my english is not quite good, if you understand french ? lol.

Dear Brother, I read, speak and write French as I read, speak and write English. Alhamdulillah. However, for those of our brothers and sisters on SF who are interested with this thread, let us continue in English. Hope you don't mind.


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English Yusuf Ali: [18:49]And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.    Can you tell me whay personns are in great terror when they get their book ?  If they are terrified on that day, why they were not terrified in the grave ?

If we go to verse 18:48, we find that Allah(SWT) is referring to the Day of Judgment when each one will be presented with his record - the record of all his doings on Earth, good or bad. An atom of good will be shown; an atom of bad will be shown. No doubt, those who had doubted or those who did lead a sinful life will be terrified of seeing such a record, because then they will know that nothing was hidden from Allah(SWT).

They were not terrified in the grave (your second question) because it is on the Day of Judgment that the Book of Records is shown to each and every one. The Book is not shown in the grave.

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They were not informed in the grave following your beleif that they will go to hell, because in the grave they know if they go to hell or not ?

I don't have the exact reference now, but there is a hadith which states that the dead in the grave will be shown his place in the hereafter, hell or paradise, in the morning and at night. This hadith tells us that in the grave itself, a sinner is being tortured through his seeing what his final destination is going to be. Please note that the grave is but a transit to the final destination. Hope, Insh'Allah, that some brother or sister on SF gives the exact reference.

There are quite a few hadiths (please do a search with the word grave) in Sahih al-Bukhari that convey to us the message that there is punishment in the grave. They are from different narrators. Of course, a few could have been cooked as you say. All of them??? If yes, do you then reject the hadiths totally? Your reply to this question is important, dear brother. If your reply is in the affirmative, then please open a new thread entitled "The authenticity of the hadiths", and we will discuss this issue there so that we do not digress from the subject of this present thread.

Brotherly yours
farook

[Pashtet]

This thread is going no where. The belief of the Punishment of the Grave is absolute as it is part of the Qur'an:

"In front of the fire they will be brought morning and evening. And (the sentence will be) on the day that judgment will be established (it will be ordered) cast you the people of Pharaoh in the severest penalty." (Qur'an 40:46)

Punishment in the Grave followed by the Day of Judgement when they have the severest penalty worse than the grave. This is evidence of punishment before the Day of Judgement.

"...If you could but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death and the angels stretch forth their hands (saying): Yield up your souls. This day shall you receive your reward, a punishment of shame..." (Qur'an 6:93)

Once again punishment in the grave how so? It is because of the Angels when they "stretch forth their hands". As we see in another Ayah the meaning of that:

"If you could see when the angels take the souls of the unbelievers (at death), (how) they smite their faces and their backs (saying): �Taste the penalty of the blazing fire." (Qur'an 8:50)

In another Ayah we have proof of Allah punishing twice the Hypocrites, on in this world and one in the grave and thereafter on Judgement Day:

"Twice shall we punish them, and thereafter shall they be sent to a grievous penalty" (Qur'an 9:101)

Lastly is a whole Sur'ah:

"The mutual rivalry for piling up (the good things of this world) diverts you (from the more serious things), Until ye visit the graves. But nay, ye soon shall know (the reality). Again, ye soon shall know! Nay, were ye to know with certainty of mind, (ye would beware!) Ye shall certainly see Hell-Fire! Again, ye shall see it with certainty of sight! Then, shall ye be questioned that Day about the joy (ye indulged in!)." (Qur'an Sur'ah 102)

This is evident of the event of the Grave to the Day of Judgement.

As for the Ayah's mentioned earlier, we are talking about the Meeting in the Grave with the Angels versus the Meeting with the One who CREATED US ALLAH! How can one compare?

As far as Hadith's are concerned the ones about punishment of the grave are considered Mutawwatir

Allah knows best.

[Theariwinna]

Dear Brother Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

Please excuse me for the long delay in replying. Not much time during Ramadhan.

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Because my english is not quite good, if you understand french ? lol.

Dear Brother, I read, speak and write French as I read, speak and write English. Alhamdulillah. However, for those of our brothers and sisters on SF who are interested with this thread, let us continue in English. Hope you don't mind.


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English Yusuf Ali: [18:49]And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.    Can you tell me whay personns are in great terror when they get their book ?  If they are terrified on that day, why they were not terrified in the grave ?

If we go to verse 18:48, we find that Allah(SWT) is referring to the Day of Judgment when each one will be presented with his record - the record of all his doings on Earth, good or bad. An atom of good will be shown; an atom of bad will be shown. No doubt, those who had doubted or those who did lead a sinful life will be terrified of seeing such a record, because then they will know that nothing was hidden from Allah(SWT).

They were not terrified in the grave (your second question) because it is on the Day of Judgment that the Book of Records is shown to each and every one. The Book is not shown in the grave.

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They were not informed in the grave following your beleif that they will go to hell, because in the grave they know if they go to hell or not ?

I don't have the exact reference now, but there is a hadith which states that the dead in the grave will be shown his place in the hereafter, hell or paradise, in the morning and at night. This hadith tells us that in the grave itself, a sinner is being tortured through his seeing what his final destination is going to be. Please note that the grave is but a transit to the final destination. Hope, Insh'Allah, that some brother or sister on SF gives the exact reference.

There are quite a few hadiths (please do a search with the word grave) in Sahih al-Bukhari that convey to us the message that there is punishment in the grave. They are from different narrators. Of course, a few could have been cooked as you say. All of them??? If yes, do you then reject the hadiths totally? Your reply to this question is important, dear brother. If your reply is in the affirmative, then please open a new thread entitled "The authenticity of the hadiths", and we will discuss this issue there so that we do not digress from the subject of this present thread.

Brotherly yours
farook

Assalam aleykoum brother Farook,




Did you carefuly verses I puted ?

Did you read them carefully, I do not think you did ?????


I put you one verse and open your eyes please.


English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.


What is the Aim of grave punishment of one hour ?



Assalam aleykoum.

[bikersfan]

Assalam aleykoum brother Farook,




Did you carefuly verses I puted ?

Did you read them carefully, I do not think you did ?????


I put you one verse and open your eyes please.


English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.


What is the Aim of grave punishment of one hour ?



Assalam aleykoum.

My dear Brother Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

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English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: [B](It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day[/B]: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.

When we try to understand the meaning of a verse, we should not take the verse out of context and look for its meaning. The verse you have quoted above, follows a few other verses where, inter alia, Allah(SWT) is telling the Holy Messenger(SAW) that he cannot guide the deaf and the blind (figurative sense of course). After this, he reveals the verse you have quoted.

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One day He will gather them together

No doubt, this is the Day of Judgment, when ALL will be gathered together.

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(It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day

Tarried but an hour of a day - Tarried where? In the grave? NO. Allah(SWT) is here referring to the time spent by man in this world - albeit including the time spent in the grave. This hour of which Allah(SWT) is speaking, is not our hour. It is an hour in Allah's(SWT) world - the astral world where one day is equivalent to 50,000 of our years (Holy Qur'an). So, when Allah(SWT) Says "one hour", He is referring to His Time Scale. So, your obseravtion / question regarding punishment in the grave of duration one hour is WRONG.

Let us now go back to your post at #15, and to this verse that you quoted:

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English Yusuf Ali: [25:47]And He it is Who makes the Night as a Robe for you, and Sleep as Repose, and makes the Day (as it were) a Resurrection.

Here Allah(SWT) is referring to the night in this world of ours, night during which we sleep and take rest. Although we are sleeping, it is as if we are dead, and when we wake up in the morning when it is daylight, it is as if we have been ressurrected. Please note that when we sleep, the soul may leave the body but it is still attached to it, whereas when we die the soul is no longer attached to the body.
This verse has no direct relevance to our discussion regarding "Punishment in the graves". In fact, I would qualify it as being IRRELEVANT.

My dear Brother Stefane, I hope, Insh'Allah, that the above explanations will be of help. Please do also refer to the various quotations in the post of our brother fahid - in particular, that in which mention is made of more than one punishment - the last being the one to be inflicted on the Last Day. - that would be the ULTIMATE one.

Brotherly yours
farook