[luspikals]

isnt everyone getting sick of this

[Numbiydq]

we also dont call openly us as sunni muslim. but when people come, how to undersatnd quran, then we say we understand quran through the hadiths and sunnah of prophet mohammad(sw) . and in this case we are divided from those group who believe in quran , but interpate quran from themself. and those 72 group will appear cause of their own undersanding of quran.

You personally may not say "I'm a Sunni", but here in America where I live....this is how people distinguish themselves from sect to sect another. It goes something like this.

Brother One: Salam Alaikum brother how are you? Brother Two: Wa Salam brother I didn't know you were a Muslim!? Brother One: Yeah brother I am. Brother Two: Oh really, what are you? Brother One: Oh I'm a Sunni. Brother Two: Oh for real, Alhumdulillah me too, good to know...well Salams bro. Brother One: MaSalama

[Numbiydq]

isnt everyone getting sick of this

I just want answers, and not excuses.

[InvertPrete]

Brother One: Salam Alaikum brother how are you? Brother Two: Wa Salam brother I didn't know you were a Muslim!? Brother One: Yeah brother I am. Brother Two: Oh really, what are you? Brother One: Oh I'm a Sunni. Brother Two: Oh for real, Alhumdulillah me too, good to know...well Salams bro. Brother One: MaSalama

its nothing but madhkhali virus. ask them why they behave like that.

[Numbiydq]

Just out of curiosity, Sister Dhameera, how old are you?

I mentioned my age on another post in this forum, but I am 26.

[Numbiydq]

its nothing but madhkhali virus. ask them why they behave like that.

Brother I can't go to every Muslim Sunni, Shi'a Salafi etc, and ask why they tag themselves as such, it would be pointless. I'm just trying to find out why when Allah says NOT to do it, are people still doing it? I don't recall Allah giving any authority for this.

I myself am a Muslim. I follow no sect, but I do follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w.a). And in doing that, Insha'Allah Allah is pleased with me, and save me from the torment of the fire, Ameen.

And trust me I'm not here to point the finger, make people angry, argue or be arrogant (may Allah forgive me if I have done any of those things), I am just here to gain some understanding. Hence I am on a "Sunni Forum."

Please excuse any typos^^

[InvertPrete]

Brother I can't go to every Muslim Sunni, Shi'a Salafi etc, and ask why they tag themselves as such, it would be pointless. I'm just trying to find out why when Allah says NOT to do it, are people still doing it? I don't recall Allah giving any authority for this.

I myself am a Muslim. I follow no sect, but I do follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w.a). And in doing that, Insha'Allah Allah is pleased with me, and save me from the torment of the fire, Ameen.

And trust me I'm not here to point the finger, make people angry, argue or be arrogant (may Allah forgive me if I have done any of those things), I am just here to gain some understanding. Hence I am on a "Sunni Forum."

Please excuse any typos^^

jazakallah sister for ur words. may allah give us also understanding and stick with quran and sunnah.

[Numbiydq]

Sister,

I think we both can agree that Muslims have divided themselves into groups.

Then we can also agree that the Muslims among these groups have given themselves different names.

So far so good.

Can you tell me where in the Quran does it say that you cannot call your group by a particular name?

Surah Al Rum [B][30 So set you your face steadily and truly to the faith. It is Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which he has made mankind: no change let there be in the work of Allah: that is the standard religion: but most among mankind understand not.

31 Turn back in repentance to him, and fear him: establish regular prayers, and be not among those who join gods with Allah,

32 Those who split up their religion, and become sects, each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!B]

So not only do we establish that we aren't supposed to break the religion into sects, but we can say we definitely aren't supposed to name them either.

[InvertPrete]

So not only do we establish that we aren't supposed to break the religion into sects, but we can say we definitely aren't supposed to name them either.

well sister, now a days just by saying muslim somehow not sufficient. This would be a correct answer if we were in the very first times (of Islaam) before the sects had appeared and spread. But if we were to ask, now, any Muslim from any of these sects with which we differ on account of aqeedah, his answer would not be any different to this word. All of them – the Shi’ite Rafidi, the Khaariji, the Nusayri Alawi – would say, "I am a Muslim". Hence, this is not sufficient in these days.

and will you find any of those whom we have just mentioned by way of example saying, ‘I am a Muslim who is not upon the Book and the Sunnah’?" Who is the one who says, ‘I am not upon the Book and the Sunnah’?"

everybody claims that.we will call us with this titles if any body dug their aqeedah and discuss about it. otherwise normally its suffiecient to call muslim.

[Janny2006]

As Salamu Alaykum Sister,


May Allah guide all of us to what is correct, ameen. I think in order to understand the development of the different sects in Islam you would have to have some research in Islamic history. Now from your posts and the response from others, it seems you are trying to over-simplify a complex historical phenomenon.

First to correct your misconception about when the madhahib came about, it did not come about during the lifetime of the Prophet (salla llahu alayhi wa sallam). They were formulated later during the time of the Tabi'un and Tabi Tabi'un. They were created out of the necessity because usul al fiqh had to regulate how fiqh rulings are derived from the raw info of the Quran and Sunnah. Each school agreed on the four bases of shariah (Quran, Sunnah, Ijma, Qiyas) but differed in other usuli principles. The four madhhabs (hanafi, maliki, shafi'i, and hanbali) are the surviving schools of jurisprudence whereas others in history became defunct or extinct for various reasons.

Secondly, before we go further in this discussion, I need you to define to me what is the Sunnah. If you are defining it as primarily the authentic Hadith of the Prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam then it begs the question on what collections of hadith that you deem sound. For example, if you take the sihah sitta (the sound six collections of canonical hadith ie bukhari, muslim, abu dawud, tirmidhi, nasa'i, and ibn majah) then you would, like it or not be primarily Sunni because the Shia do not use our hadith collections, they have their own.

Thirdly, in the matter of legitimate sucessorship of the caliphate after the death of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, who in your view, was the first four caliphs who had legtimate rule in Islam? If you think Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali then you would be a Sunni.

I think its unfair to say that the Sunnis (which is short for Ahl Sunnah wal Jamaah or the People of the Prophetic Sunnah and Majority) purposely made a sect to cause chaos and amenity amongst other Muslims. If we study Islamic history, Ahl Sunnah wal Jamaah was coined as a necessity to distinguish between the deviant sects that came about. In order for the masses to not be confused with the chaos that had resulted in the splintering and deviation of other sects, the majority of the mainstream scholars of Islam began defining what it meant to be the people of the sunnah and majority.

Now can this be ultimately proven true that the Sunnis are the ones on the true path, no and Allah knows Best and His help is sought! But based on history and the methodology that Sunnis and their scholars have been using for over a millenia , we as Sunnis have a good argument in this case.

Of course the utopian view is to say " Alhamdulillah we are all Muslims , all the same let us not dabble into sects." The reality however, is that some who claim to be Muslims are in fact are not (ie the Nation of Islam, Submitters, Qadianis). Now how did we come to this conclusion? Mind you, Takfir is serious business and no laymen should do such a thing but our ulama have given us clear indications of what is mainstream Islamic belief and by denying these things that are known by necessity as being part of the religion, and what I mean by denying is without ambiguity or excuse (ie a new muslim convert who doesnt know better), then they would be out of the fold of Islam.

Of course Allah and his Messenger did not tell us to create names of sects or what not. Human nature is all about categorizing, naming , labeling, things. This train of thought or logic that you have suggested doesnt hold water. This reminds me of the extinct Dhahiri school which took the literalist approach to the sources and rejected in totality the usuli principle of Qiyas or Analogy. So using that kind of logic, since Cocaine is not found anywhere in the Quran or Sunnah (ie Allah and his Messenger did not explicitly made it unlawful) therefore it is permissible to use? Any sane Muslim would think that is absurd. How do we deem cocaine haram or unlawful? based on analogy or qiyas. the original ruling is wine, an intoxicant. Intoxicants are haram, therefore intoxicants like cocaine is also haram. So that sort of logic doesnt fit. Ahl Sunnah wal Jamaah was not created because we needed a pretty name or we wanted to create or sect to disobey Allah..aoothubillah!

It came about out of circumstance of the historical realities that were inflicting the ummah at that time.

So in conclusion, of course first and foremost we are Muslims. Ahl Sunnah wal Jamaah historically is the majority sect that has the unbroken chain of transmission of learning and knowledge back to the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam. If you need more info on this, I suggest you read books on this, even university textbooks on islamic history would suffice. Sects came about in a historical circumstance, for example the Shia came about at first as a political partisan group toward the Sayyiduna Ali ibn Abi Talib as the rightful Caliph after the prophet's passing. It later became a sort of messianic type group thinking only the Ahl Bayt had a monopoly on the spiritual and political leadership of the community.

Wal Llahu ta Ala Alim wa Hasbunallahu wa Ni'ma al Wakil.

[Numbiydq]

Walaikum Salam Brother,

May Allah guide all of us to what is correct, ameen. Ameen.


First to correct your misconception about when the madhahib came about, it did not come about during the lifetime of the Prophet (salla llahu alayhi wa sallam). Well let me just say I have no misconception on this matter. I asked when they came about, a brother posted a link on the history, I read gained knowledge (Alhumdulillah) and left it at that.

However, my response to that was the following: I now understand that the Madhabs are not sects, and are just stages in the life and time of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). and Maliki being the last stage (please correct me if I am wrong). Meaning that they came long after the Prophet to inform people of what he did at different intervals of his life..but alas someone informed me that that was incorrect.

Secondly, before we go further in this discussion, I need you to define to me what is the Sunnah. Well from what I know (May Allah guide me to the truth) the Sunnah are the doings and saying of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) according to the Hadith. However, for me the Quran has to back up the Hadith one way or another. So for me it's not a specific Hadith, just a hadith that back up his Sunnah with the Quran, as I look to the quran first.

Thirdly, in the matter of legitimate sucessorship of the caliphate after the death of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam, who in your view, was the first four caliphs who had legtimate rule in Islam? If you think Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali then you would be a Sunni. I know that Allah (s.w.t) made reference to Abu Bakr in Al Quran, but as far as the others go I would be lying if I said I agreed or disagreed, or for that matter cared. Because the truth of the matter is Allah made them follow in succession the way Allah wanted. No point in arguing over it...it was the Will of Allah who became what and how they came to be. Falling into disputes about trivial matters like who should have been the next Caliph will not help anyone get into jannah, and Allah warns us of such trivial things.

[QUOTE][I think its unfair to say that the Sunnis (which is short for Ahl Sunnah wal Jamaah or the People of the Prophetic Sunnah and Majority) purposely made a sect to cause chaos and amenity amongst other Muslims. /QUOTE]

Now brother when did I make that statement? Now that's a fabrication on what I said. I said that some Muslims used the Madhab to fall into sects, and I definitely did not say Sunni's created a sect to cause chaos amongst other Muslims, but what I did say was there was no need to make a distinction who is a believer or who isn't because Allah already made the distinction.

Allah gives many examples in Al Quran on who is a believer, and none of them is a title other than believer. Amongst other things a believer is one who hears and obeys. Meaning not just one who hears what Allah (s.w.t) says, but also puts it into action. This is how one makes a distinction on who is a believer or a disbeliever is through ones actions. Act upon the Quran and Sunnah, not give oneself a title and then say "I believe," Allah makes the believers not man, and surely not titles.

No matter what people feel they needed to do to in the past or now, what's wrong is wrong and what right is right. In the end we all have to answer to Allah for what we do, and what we did to propogate this religion.

Insha'Allah Allah guides us to what is correct and true Ameen.

well sister, now a days just by saying muslim somehow not sufficient. This would be a correct answer if we were in the very first times (of Islaam) before the sects had appeared and spread. The Quran and Sunnah is for all times, not just the past...so if Allah makes a direct injunction for us not to do something, we can't then say because of the time frame we have to do it another way.

Allah knows his creation, and that verse in surah Al Rum is what not to do..FOR ALL TIMES , not just for the past.

[EbrsaRynleot]

I myself am a Muslim. I follow no sect, but I do follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w.a). And in doing that, Insha'Allah Allah is pleased with me, and save me from the torment of the fire, Ameen.

Okay here's your problem sister. You say you're following nothing but the sunnah. Well, where did you get this sunnah from? Books of hadith?

News flash to everybody: the scholars whose teachings solidified into madhhabs also had access to hadith. They probably memorised more hadith than you will ever read. Now, how on earth do you have the arrogance to think that you can pick up Sahih al Bukhari, flick through it, read the superficial meanings of them largely out of context (with many of them on the surface contradicting each other, or at least hadith in other books).... and somehow you are going to salvage a Shariah out of that? Do you honestly think that your rendition, or Al-Albani's rendition, or whichever Salafi scholar's rendition is going to be closer to the Prophet's sunnah than that of the Imams who were sitting with the actual original Salaf community themselves?

No, don't think so? Then follow a madhhab. Don't take shaytan's way out, which is this arrogant "i'm better than the rest because i follow the pure stuff." Much like Iblis saying "i won't bow because 'm made on fire." Following a madhhab simply means you admit that you don't have the knowledge to devise rulings yourself. Until you do have that awesome level of knowledge, then just follow a madhhab and stop making noise about how they're sects and so on. It's not about sectarianism, it's about humility.

[Numbiydq]

Okay here's your problem sister. You say you're following nothing but the sunnah. Well, where did you get this sunnah from? Books of hadith?

News flash to everybody: the scholars whose teachings solidified into madhhabs also had access to hadith. They probably memorised more hadith than you will ever read. Now, how on earth do you have the arrogance to think that you can pick up Sahih al Bukhari, flick through it, read the superficial meanings of them largely out of context (with many of them on the surface contradicting each other, or at least hadith in other books).... and somehow you are going to salvage a Shariah out of that? Do you honestly think that your rendition, or Al-Albani's rendition, or whichever Salafi scholar's rendition is going to be closer to the Prophet's sunnah than that of the Imams who were sitting with the actual original Salaf community themselves?

No, don't think so? Then follow a madhhab. Don't take shaytan's way out, which is this arrogant "i'm better than the rest because i follow the pure stuff." Much like Iblis saying "i won't bow because 'm made on fire." Following a madhhab simply means you admit that you don't have the knowledge to devise rulings yourself. Until you do have that awesome level of knowledge, then just follow a madhhab and stop making noise about how they're sects and so on. It's not about sectarianism, it's about humility.

Brother excuse me but what the heck are you talking about???? I think we have established that a Madhab is NOT A SECT!!! A sect is a sect, exclusive from a Madhab. So in saying that, how is it that I am arrogant because I choose not to follow a sect?? I am a Muslim, not a Sunni Muslim, not a Shi'a Muslim, and defintely not a "SALAFI" as you insinuated. I came here to ask questions about why do people break off into these sects "rejoicing in intself", and it's obvious that people are making excuses for themselves and not folloing what Allah says in Quran. Fine so be it, like Allah says in Al Quran All questions goes back to him for answers, and he will tell us the truth of all that we did.

We all have to answer to Allah, and on the day of Resurrection Allah is not going to ask me about you, or you I. However, he will ask us what we did to propogate his religion.

So with that said, I'm done on this topic...no one gave me any real answers, and MAY Allah forgive if I game off as arrogant or disrespectful, or anything else not pleasing to him because that surely was not my intention.

Salam Alaikum.

[Numbiydq]

Originally Posted by Ma'ruf
Okay here's your problem sister. You say you're following nothing but the sunnah. Well, where did you get this sunnah from? Books of hadith? You took what I said out of context, but I'm not even going to go there...I'll leave it at Allah knows best.

[Numbiydq]

Nope. Doesn't work. I'll tell you why.

Let us imagine that the Muslims were all one, right after the death of the Prophet. They were the main body of Muslims. Over time people started breaking off from the main body of Muslims. So this main body of Muslims decided to call themselves something, in order to distinguish themselves from those groups who did break off. Let's say they called themselves, "The Original Muslims." Do you still think that calling themselves by this name is haram? If you think so, please provide a text from the Quran that says this. Keep in mind that this hypothetical group did not engage in "breaking off" or "dividing." They just stayed the way they were, but decided to call themselves by a particular name any way. Please provide a clear text from the Quran that says that such a naming is haram.

Another point is that the Quran merely says that breaking into sects is wrong. No where does it say that naming your sect by a particular name is wrong. You haven't provided a single quote from the Quran proving this. If there is such a quote, then please provide it. Unless you can provide a clear text of the Quran clearly prohibiting the naming of sects, then you have no right to accuse others of doing something impermissible.

The fact that you can say that when Allah gives us a direct injunction not to break off into sects, and you call it a "Mere Fact"....speaks loads in itself. I'll leave it at that. And Insha'Allah May Allah guide us all to what is true and pure..Ameen.

[InvertPrete]

The Quran and Sunnah is for all times, not just the past...so if Allah makes a direct injunction for us not to do something, we can't then say because of the time frame we have to do it another way.

Allah knows his creation, and that verse in surah Al Rum is what not to do..FOR ALL TIMES , not just for the past.

nobody denies it. people get those title cause they claim to follow quran and sunnah but actuelly they dont. the time of prophet mohammad(sw) the sahaba didn´t claim someting but did it. but after three generation people started to claim and not believe in reality.

[ketNavatutt]

The fact that you can say that when Allah gives us a direct injunction not to break off into sects, and you call it a "Mere Fact"....speaks loads in itself. I'll leave it at that. And Insha'Allah May Allah guide us all to what is true and pure..Ameen.

How many of the five articles that I posted links to on the first page of this thread did you happen to read?

[Janny2006]

As Salamu Alaykum Sister,


Jazakallahu khair for your reply to my post. However you haven't addressed all that I asked of you. In terms of the Sunnah, you defined it but didnt really tell me where you get or rather where you get knowledge of the sunnah from. As I listed in my first post, if you take the Sunnah from hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, etc then you would be predominantly Sunni in orientation. If you get your info on the Sunnah of the prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam from collections known in the Shia tradition, then you would be Shia. My point here being is that when you talk about Quran and Sunnah, in this sense Sunnah where are you taking the sunnah from?

It can even be argued that some more extreme Shia sects have changed portions of the Quran. So which begs the question on which Quran do you use? What I mean by that is not the translation or interpretation you read but which transmitted quran do you take from?

The Quran and Sunnah are not understood in a vacuum, there is historical and other considerations that need to be taken into account before something can be derived from it and what not. The issue of the sectarian divide amongst the Muslims is a tragic fact that all humanity has faced yet it did occur. To say that you would ignore all the sectarian issues and just be Muslim like I said, is a very utopian outlook and not realistic.

Human nature demarcates things and in Islam its clear where one stands based on what sort of knowledge is taken, how one prays, what one's view of the succession of the caliphate (which despite your assertion is an important fact. Because if one were to question the legitimacy of the caliphal succession during the early times would necessitate accusing the Sahaba of wrongdoing and deviance, thus be at odds in what Allah and his Messenger viewed the Sahaba.) Islamic governance or what they call as Siyasa ash-Shariyyah is part of Islamic law and simply cannot be ignored.


To respond to your rebuttal to my paraphrase of the totality of your posts regarding sectarianism, I didnt accuse you of actually saying it. If you took it that way I apologize that was not my intent, however what I did mean was from your tone of addressing the issue seems like the creation of sects like ahl sunnah wal jamaah which is simply a label to represent what the majority of Muslims are following and to distinguish from others, is the one creating the chaos and discord. The fact that you started this thread of why there are so many sects is an indication of that.

Like I said in my original post, you would have to look into Islamic history and see how these sects developed or came about. For example the more political version of Shia tul Ali came about around the time of Abu Bakr's caliphate (which you say is the first legitimate caliph. As far as I know there is no proofs from the quran or sunnah that explicitly stated that Abu bakr is the designated successor. the only indication is implicit when The prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam designated Abu Bakr as to lead the Salah during his illness and eventual death, Wa Llahu Alim). Now by you taking the stance that Abu Bakr is the first Caliph, which most sunnis agree and even Zaydi Shia (though they claim Ali had more right to the caliphate but accept abu bakr's regardless) you have alienated yourself from most hard line shia (who do not accept his caliphate as valid).

So like it or not you can call yourself just a plain Muslim and tell people that, but when you take stances like that, you have already, unknowingly demarcated yourself. By you saying you follow the quran and sunnah you have alienated from the Quran only sect called the Submittors who actually think they are the true Muslims. My point being here is whatever beliefs you hold ,what sources you follow, etc etc if you were to list them all down, I can guarantee you you would fit into one of the many sects of Islam out there whether you recognize them or not.

Most of us in this forum, not all, but most of us belong to what has been termed which is a neologism and fairly new term , a Traditional Sunni Muslim. Not to further complicate things, but this is defined as Muslims who follow the understanding of the Islamic sources in an unbroken chain of transmission and authentication from student to teacher all the way back to the Messenger of Allah (salla llahu alayhi wa sallam). This means following one of the four surviving schools of fiqh (that possess this unbroken chain of learning), the Ashari or Maturidi Schools of Aqida, and acknowledges and follows one of the paths of tasawwuf (the practical science to reach the level of ihsan).


For most of us, alhamdulillah, we can sleep a little better at night because what we understand of Islam is in an unbroken chain of learning and authentication. For example in the school of fiqh I follow which is the Shafi'i school, all my Shafii fiqh teachers have an unbroken chain of learning that leads back to the main recensioner of the school Imam Nawawi , in which he and his generation upgraded and reevaluated the school and took knowledge from the generation of Imam Rafii who took from the generation of Imam Ghazali, who took from the generation of Imam Juwayni, who took from the Generation of Imam Baghawi, who took from the generation of Imam Bayhaqi, who took from the generation of Imam Muzani, who took from Imam Shafi'i who learned from the Tabi'un in Makkah who learned from Ibn Abbas who learned directly from the Messenger of Allah salla llahu alayhi wa sallam. Another chain for Imam Shafii is he learned from Imam Malik who learned from (among others) Imam Nafi who learned from Abdullah ibn Umar who learned from the Prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam. Another chain of Imam Shafii is he learned from Imam Muhammad ash Shaybani who learned from Imam Abu Hanifa who learned from Ibrahim an Nakhai who learned from Ibn Masud who learned from the Prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam.

Now all this is done through learning the Islamic sciences and history. Now I didnt pick to be in Sunni Islam because I want to disobey Allah, aoothubillah. I chose Sunni Islam because it had this chain of transmission, it reassured me that what I am following is the Islam that the Prophet and his companions transmitted to the world.

This begs the question as to what "Islam" you follow. Its easy to say I'm just Muslim and I follow the Quran and sunnah but many say that. Some of our Salafi brothers and sisters are of the opinion that all you need is the Quran and sunnah and you dont need a qualified specialist to interpret. Basically the protestant approach or what they call in protestant christianity, sola scriptura (by scripture alone). This is an entirely other topic but this only presents many problems in regards to understanding, interpretation and what not.

From what I can assess from your posts sister is that you haven't done the necessary research on this issue. This can very well be a wrong assertion or more like assumption, but this is what I can gather.

As a person who defends the rights of Muslims in America as a profession, your assertions of sectarianism in Islam, madhhabs etc is similar to how many non muslims view Islam in general and sub categories like shariah, women's rights etc. At the many talks and presentations I give people ask questions that can easily be solved if they take the time to do the research with the proper sources. When I ask them how they arrived at their conclusions, they usually say the news both print and television. When I asked them how many books they have read from qualified muslims who can write on the topic they say none. So there is the problem.

The initial question of why there are so many sects in Islam can easily be answered by getting a book on Islamic history. Now books by themselves should be taken with a grain of salt, but even academic works on Islamic history is fair and gives indications of the sectarian origins. Like for example how did the Mu'tazila school of kalam (speculative theology) came about? The founder of the school was originally from the study circle of the great Tabi' Hasan al Basri. That student and his followers were heavily influenced by rationalist neo platonic philosophy and believed that should be more emphasized then the divine revelation in explaining the nature of Allah and other matters.

I didnt get this from sitting around watching tv and eating popcorn and drinking soda, this is from learning from qualified specialists, reading their texts, gaining understanding, learning, researching. Now I am not accusing you of doing that, of being a couch potato...I'm saying that this question can be solved by taking the time to research it. For me, who for some reason has this drive to know things, whenever I want to know about a particular topic, I would buy a book on it or take a class or study under a specialist on it. Before I knew it, my library alhamdulillah, is now over a 1000 books on various topics not just Islam. Maybe you dont have that same zeal to read like I do, but if this sectarian thing is really bothering you, the first step is to see the roots of how this all came about and why its relevant now.

[Numbiydq]

Well first let me say, all knowledge comes from Allah. So my knowledge of the Sunnah (however little it is) I got from Allah, through my mother, father, reading Hadiths, (that Al Quran-Karim back with authenticity no matter the hadith), and religious books
Alhumdulillah.

However with that said, I am done with this topic, arguing over the internet is like running is the Special Olympics "you run, and you may even win, but in the end you'll still be retarded." Basically there's no point.

So as I stated earlier no one gave me any new information or anything that would tell me the purpose of these sects. Or maybe I worded my inquirey wrong, maybe I meant why do so many people follow sects when Allah gives us a direct injunction not to.

[Janny2006]

As Salamu Alaykum Sister

I never insinuated that you watched tv or music. Reread my statement and it actually said that

I didnt get this from sitting around watching tv and eating popcorn and drinking soda, this is from learning from qualified specialists, reading their texts, gaining understanding, learning, researching. Now I am not accusing you of doing that, of being a couch potato...I'm saying that this question can be solved by taking the time to research it. For me, who for some reason has this drive to know things, whenever I want to know about a particular topic, I would buy a book on it or take a class or study under a specialist on it.

Also your answer isnt specific. I would like titles, hadith collections (ie Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, Arba'in an Nawawiyah, etc etc), religious book titles. Are they in English are they in Arabic?

I know this discussion is tiresome but I would like to know your background and books you read.