[elektikakass]

thread deleted.

sorry folks,show times over.

[rozneesitcn]

Assalamu alaykum

The replies from persons who oppose the TJ work are:

Its perfectly fine saying TJ is not the only way do do dawah, but then what things do people do, to actually fulfill this responsibility in their own way. There is no responsibility on me.

As a crude example, lets say one is bayt to a shaykh. Now alhamdulillah,one is practising deen. but what do you do about those people in your locality who are not close to deen? Or do people not regard as making effort on people as that important? or do people believe its a responsibility of the scholars? Self comes first, first purify yourself then you can think of others.

The condition of the ummah is all before us. People are so far away from deen, and this is the Muslims im talking about. I meet people all the time who say TJ is not fardh/wajib etc etc but then I say to them, you're right, the methodology is not fardh/wajib etc but the responsibility of making effort is. No saheeh hadeeth or ayah to worry about that.

The condition of the ummah in terms of iman and a'mal are going down,fast. So if not via TJ, how do the people here, implement this responsibility of making effort/worry and concern for the ummah. The TJ has to correct itself first. I am better than TJ.

So my point is, yes, TJ methodology is not fardh etc but the actual responsibily is. Through the blessing and fadhal of Allah, this TJ effort allows the general person to actually fulfill this responsibility. TJ itself needs correction.

Finally.

All this I am telling because I am not directly affected. If it happens to my son or son-in-law or my nears and dears "I LOOK TOWARDS TJ"

SHUKRAN

[ArrereGarhync]

I respect what ENIGMA said. just like to add:
Today in me-yes-myself - tolerance, patience, cooperation, sincerity and sacred knowledge has reduced a lot. that's why when i see other's fault(s), i react too soon.
Every Muslim should help all other Muslims, be he in Dawah, Taleem or Tazkiah. Everyone (i address myself first- O Allah! reform me and all of us! Shower Blessings and Long life on our Pious Scholars - all who are in Dawah, Taleem and Tazkiah!) should see into his own deed first and while commenting everyone should see his position, place, time and person. I have to account to Allah Taala whatever i say. so i must fear Allah Taala when i utter something.
Everyone doing the work of Deen are good; even if someone is a Muslim not doing any work - apparently i might see he isn't doing anything, but actually he is doing - i don't know it! And what is he NOT doing - shouldn't be my headache.

Belittling a Muslim and dividing the Ummah is dangerous! For this reason, geebat, hasad, arragance are worst among sins. if one reads the final sermon of Hazratji Yusuf (R) he would become spellbound!

I request all in SF to listen to Mufti Taqi DB's Tafseer of Asr - 8 parts completed till now - available at: nooresunnat.com
Allahu Akbar, see how in majority we are lagging behind in Deeni Knowledge! so we talk against others.
May Allah Taala guide us all!

[neirty]

Height of irresponsibilty man ... !!!!

Assalamu alaykum

The replies from persons who oppose the TJ work are:



There is no responsibility on me.



Self comes first, first purify yourself then you can think of others.





No saheeh hadeeth or ayah to worry about that.



The TJ has to correct itself first. I am better than TJ.



TJ itself needs correction.

Finally.

All this I am telling because I am not directly affected. If it happens to my son or son-in-law or my nears and dears "I LOOK TOWARDS TJ"

SHUKRAN

[choollaBard]

I hear time and time again, that TJ effort is not the only way to do dawah which is of course correct.

Agreed. But those who say it don't seem to have any other way of doing da'wa.


No denying that. But I wanted to know from people on the forum, what practical steps they take,locally/nationally/internationally, to fulfill this responsibility on a daily basis in their lives.

None whatsoever. When they hear of Muslims becoming murtad in India and Africa they turn around and ask, "What is the TJ doing in that area? Why don't they send more Jamats there?"


Hajjimahjubi said something which got me thinking.

Thinking is very important. Most of our people spend their lives "thinking". That leaves them with no time for "doing".


Its perfectly fine saying TJ is not the only way do do dawah, but then what things do people do, to actually fulfill this responsibility in their own way.

Some do what they can do. Those who talk much, do little.


As a crude example, lets say one is bayt to a shaykh. Now alhamdulillah,one is practising deen.

Not necessarily.

but what do you do about those people in your locality who are not close to deen?

Who has time for them?


Or do people not regard as making effort on people as that important?

People attached to one or the other of the Jamats make efforts. Individuals make efforts. But nothing seems to work like the TJ. Zindagi mein Tsunami to sirf Jamaat ka kaam lata hai. Baaqi sab illa mashallah.


or do people believe its a responsibility of the scholars?

Many actually do.


The condition of the ummah is all before us. People are so far away from deen, and this is the Muslims im talking about. I meet people all the time who say TJ is not fardh/wajib etc etc but then I say to them, you're right, the methodology is not fardh/wajib etc but the responsibility of making effort is.

That is why the Umma is how it is.


The condition of the ummah in terms of iman and a'mal are going down,fast.

Subhanallah. True. And yet there is a great awakening among the youth because of the efforts of the ulama and TJ and to some extent the other Jamats.


So if not via TJ, how do the people here, implement this responsibility of making effort/worry and concern for the ummah.

Lets wait for their answers.


So my point is, yes, TJ methodology is not fardh etc but the actual responsibily is. Through the blessing and fadhal of Allah, this TJ effort allows the general person to actually fulfill this responsibility.

Beshak.

This is ONE of the reasons why people are requested to go in Jamaat,give time on a daily basis so that this responsibility can be fulfilled.

Yes.

The effort of TJ has been simplified for a reason and its in its simplicity, Allah has granted it so much goodness.

May Allah preserve it and expand it and accept it. Amin ya Rabb al 'Alamin.

[BartRonalds]

There is a significant problem with those of us who are involved in this work of 'not even understanding the work at all', in many cases after years of involvement......

Tabligh at its core is about self-rectification and the methods in the work serve this purpose only , until a person has progress to a certain level of acceptance in their sacrifice. Sheikh Saad states that for Allah to take work from you is a very high station thus do not think you are doing the work of 'tabligh' or that 'Allah is taking work from you' this station was given to Prophets and the companions and other notable figures.

Of course it is possible to be accepted by Allah and be eligible to be given the title of Di'e if you sacrifice enough. Also the nature and beauty of the work is that it has a two-fold effect that with the intention to using the 'muslim brother as a mirror to rectify yourself' they may get guidance.

That said anyone else's guidance is a bonus, out job is to do the work. Some prophets will be stood alone on the Day of Judgement as no one listened, but they had an obligation to full-fill and that was the extent of it.

The works of Sheikh Saad will show that he concentrates on the individual who is involved in the work mostly and in instances when there are those brothers who have sacrificed a lot and look progressive and accepted he will talk to them in light of their responsibility. But the focus is much more on the self, he knows [in my opinion I think he has firasat] what is going on with the individuals in the work and what it is they need to hear. I come to that conclusion since he came to UK 2000 and although he has mingled with a lot of foreigners for sure and still can not grasp how he could have such an understanding of what goes on in the different parts of the world with the workers and be able to address these in the talks he gives, it just baffles me.

So in conclusion, personally I would like to see this shift of the mindset of people to focus more on themselves then others via the effort of tabligh. Again in my observation and opinion it has been the downfall of the individual.....

An example is the 6 points I learnt which goes like this:

1. To develop the full yakeen and conviction that the Sahabah had.....
2. To develop the concentration and devotion that the Sahabaah had in their Salaah...
3. To develop the zeal and drive the Sahabaah had for knowledge.../To achieve the level of awareness of Allah that the Sahabaah achieved.....
4. To fullfil the rights of a muslim the same way that the Sahabah would fulfill the rights of others....
5. To achieve that purity of intention that the sahabah had achieved.....
6. To sacrifice your time, health and wealth for the sake of Allah the same way the Sahabah sacrificed their health, wealth and time.

In discussing these 6 points YOU WOULD only give examples from Hadith or lives of Sahabah. To achieve each quality you must ONLY give examples of Sahabah and The Prophet [Peace and blessing be upon him].

Example.....

For Salah you would narrate.....One person saw Abdullah ibn zubair in Sajdah and he opened the mushaf and started to read Quran and complete Surah Baqarah, Ale Imran, Maidah and Nisa and look towards him and saw that he was still in Sajdah.

So the above example is used for the second point of concentration and devotion in Salaah.

The evolutionary shift is from being Imaam and then Salaah then Ilm/dhikr to the above....however the irony is that Mehaji Mehrab [May Allah enlighten his grave] was the one who coined the most popular 6 points and he was a companion and Shura of Moulana Yusuf [May Allah enlighten his grave]. So this version of the 6 qualities has been around for 60 - 70 years and possibly longer.

Has the devil pulled a fast one? I think so....

Sheikh Saad mentions again and again that people should stop relaying stories of other jamaats and their 'miraculous' achievements and only refer to the prophet and his companions. Also in taleem only narrate Hadith and the commentary of the sheikh, why? you addition to it can not exceed a) the hadith [i.e. you can not state it better them him] b) give a better explantion then the sheikh.

Also the introduction of Munkthab Ahadith was due to peoples bayan and dawah was engrossed with their own interpretation of events/stories, etc and hadith is seldom used. He wants peoples dawah to be only from the words of the Prophets to have that inner effect and also on others, since nothing can exceed the blessings of the words of the Prophet of Allah [peace be upon him]

[wheettebott]

The TJ Tartib of Tabligh is a blessing masha'Allah and without doubt one of the best efforst going on right now.

But why do you people behave as if the specific TJ Tartib is the only possible way to do Tabligh?

I know of brothers who make da'wah and tabligh in a non-TJ Tartib (not anti-TJ, just non-TJ) and alhamdulillah they get good results and are able to make da'wah even without TJ tartib.
Yes, it's possible and happens, as it has always happened for 13 centuries before the specific TJ was set down.

Enough sectarism and "my way or no way"!

Said by a brother who loves Tabligh and sometimes makes khuruj, but cannot stand certain extremisms - and who already knows that he will regret of having written on such a thread.

[Rithlilky]

I agree with brother Gabriel that especially in Europe workers don't concentrate enough on their own Islah. I know of Hizbis and Salafis who do almost 10 hours of Dawah daily and also achieve great results, but the difference to the TJ tarteeb is that the latter is laid out in such a way that it's supposed to bring first and foremost a change in the worker himself. In my experience a Tablighi who abides by the usuls and primarily intends his own Islah will in a short time get much closer to Allah and progress much further than someone else doing 'just Dawah' for hours and hours. I hope I made sense.

[elektikakass]

Gabriel, I stand with you on what you posted yet I believe you have mis-interpreted my first post.

Umar, my first post should prove that I did not say nor imply that its TJ or no way.

you know what,forget it,its gonna go down the route I feared so deletion,here I come.

[saturninus.ribb]

I think we should stop discussing all this (a waste of time) and start doing something(I'm the 1st one referred here).

As Moulana S'ad sb says "Baaton se baatein pehelti hai aur 'amal se 'amal pehelta hai".["Talks spreads talks,deeds spreads deeds"]

[movlabs]

yes particularly when the op asks some question and he gets reply not even related to his question

[movlabs]

Gabriel, I stand with you on what you posted yet I believe you have mis-interpreted my first post.

I agree with you. this has happened last time aslo where bro gabriel completely misinterpreted what brother abulayl said. here

[vipBrooriErok]

I hear time and time again, that TJ effort is not the only way to do dawah which is of course correct. No denying that. But I wanted to know from people on the forum, what practical steps they take,locally/nationally/internationally, to fulfill this responsibility on a daily basis in their lives.

Hajjimahjubi said something which got me thinking.

Its perfectly fine saying TJ is not the only way do do dawah, but then what things do people do, to actually fulfill this responsibility in their own way.

As a crude example, lets say one is bayt to a shaykh. Now alhamdulillah,one is practising deen. but what do you do about those people in your locality who are not close to deen? Or do people not regard as making effort on people as that important? or do people believe its a responsibility of the scholars?

The condition of the ummah is all before us. People are so far away from deen, and this is the Muslims im talking about.

I meet people all the time who say TJ is not fardh/wajib etc etc but then I say to them, you're right, the methodology is not fardh/wajib etc but the responsibility of making effort is.

The condition of the ummah in terms of iman and a'mal are going down,fast. So if not via TJ, how do the people here, implement this responsibility of making effort/worry and concern for the ummah.

So my point is, yes, TJ methodology is not fardh etc but the actual responsibily is. Through the blessing and fadhal of Allah, this TJ effort allows the general person to actually fulfill this responsibility.

This is ONE of the reasons why people are requested to go in Jamaat,give time on a daily basis so that this responsibility can be fulfilled.

The effort of TJ has been simplified for a reason and its in its simplicity, Allah has granted it so much goodness.

Very pertinant issue. Although all that you have mentioned is just one thing from different angles, nontheless I feel we need to expound on it.

Before we continue, I would like to urge that the example of a sheikh and mureed was not well suited here, since it brought the unfortunate barrage of few replies you got. But the point is valid.. what other forms of Da'wah and Tableegh do we or can we do.

The obligation to the self is reformatory, so that is a seperate topic on its own. The issue of fikr for other is what is being highlighted. I feel there is one point being misunderstood however. i.e The duty of tableegh or da'wah is mutlaq (general) so even a small act of kindness with the intention of it being da'wah will fulfil the requirement and the duty. What TJ does is active form of reminder of deen and that too on a major part within muslims, and at certain measures towards non muslims.

Nontheless here is what I can think off.. on top of my head..

- a person teaches another how to recite basic surahs.
- a person say salam to his fellow brother (perhaps neighbour at home or at work) with the intention of it being a means of guidance.
- a qari teaching tajweed
- an imaam leading salah
- calling out adhaan
- wearing correct attire with intention of it being da'wah
- keeping beard to fulfil an obligation and adding the niyah of it being a da'iyyah (same with niqab)
- a woman restraining her self from talking excessively without need when out of home.
- helping out that old man carry some luggage, or give him a lift.
- saying to some one at the mall who you know is a muslim.
- send some food / or raw vegitables or anything to your neighbour with the message that we love you for sake of Allah
- help the person in your isle at the shop who is short of a couple of bobs (provided its not for alcohol)
- answer on sunniforum or other forums with correct intention and sincerity (giving reliable information from authentic sources)
- inviting fellow brothers/sisters for chai and talk about deeni issues instead of arsenal and manchester united.
- offer to help in local food and shelter program with an intention to help their souls as well.
- give out islamic material, pamphlets etc
- give money to organizations you know are working to call towards deen
- give time for your local masjid as a valet/carpark assistant for that program certain sheikh is conducting.
- if you are student of deen, then sit in your class! that is your da'wah
- visit hospitals or old people homes and talk casually with them with intention of da'wah toward haq. (ofcourse if you go like an evangilist, it will become your last visit)
- take the time out to visit that one friend who you got angry at and never spoke again.
- go out of the way to make something for that uncle who always causes fitna in your masjid.
- make food for TJ sathies even if you have no intention of going in khurooj
- ...

more are coming to mind but I think the idea is clear.. almost anything becomes a da'wah with the right intention, sincerity and mindset. After all hidaya is from Allah and it can come to that athiest who you gave food on the day he was hungry, even without any active intention of Da'wah.. Or that jews who saw your topi and started inquisition about it being yarmulk and finally being bewildered at the concept of covering head in islam.. May Allah give him hidaya towards deen. Ameen

[choollaBard]

Gabriel, I stand with you on what you posted yet I believe you have mis-interpreted my first post.

Umar, my first post should prove that I did not say nor imply that its TJ or no way.

you know what,forget it,its gonna go down the route I feared so deletion,here I come.

Why are you being so sensitive brother?
I think that bro Gabriel's post is Mufeed and should be paid attention to even if you believe that he has somewhat misunderstood the point that you are making, Chill. WS

[saturninus.ribb]

- a person teaches another how to recite basic surahs.
- a person say salam to his fellow brother (perhaps neighbour at home or at work) with the intention of it being a means of guidance.
- a qari teaching tajweed
- an imaam leading salah
- calling out adhaan
- wearing correct attire with intention of it being da'wah
- keeping beard to fulfil an obligation and adding the niyah of it being a da'iyyah (same with niqab)
- a woman restraining her self from talking excessively without need when out of home.
- helping out that old man carry some luggage, or give him a lift.
- saying to some one at the mall who you know is a muslim.
- send some food / or raw vegitables or anything to your neighbour with the message that we love you for sake of Allah
- help the person in your isle at the shop who is short of a couple of bobs (provided its not for alcohol)
- answer on sunniforum or other forums with correct intention and sincerity (giving reliable information from authentic sources)
- inviting fellow brothers/sisters for chai and talk about deeni issues instead of arsenal and manchester united.
- offer to help in local food and shelter program with an intention to help their souls as well.
- give out islamic material, pamphlets etc
- give money to organizations you know are working to call towards deen
- give time for your local masjid as a valet/carpark assistant for that program certain sheikh is conducting.
- if you are student of deen, then sit in your class! that is your da'wah
- visit hospitals or old people homes and talk casually with them with intention of da'wah toward haq. (ofcourse if you go like an evangilist, it will become your last visit)
- take the time out to visit that one friend who you got angry at and never spoke again.
- go out of the way to make something for that uncle who always causes fitna in your masjid.
- make food for TJ sathies even if you have no intention of going in khurooj
-

Exactly!!!This what I wanted to say in My last post all the acts above mentioned with intention of Dawah helps in spreading it like I Quoted Moulana S'ad sb before "Amal sey Amal pehelta hai".

So We must concentrate more on Amalii dawat and try to become Da'ees 24x7.

[BartRonalds]

Gabriel, I stand with you on what you posted yet I believe you have mis-interpreted my first post.

Umar, my first post should prove that I did not say nor imply that its TJ or no way.

you know what,forget it,its gonna go down the route I feared so deletion,here I come.

you are actually right LOL
sorry bro, should not have gone on my own rant

[GarryPaterson]

Not exactly relating to the topic but a beneficial lecture I listened to awhile back.

By Maulana Sulaiman ravat (presenter on Radio Islam)

http://www.mediafire.com/?a57rvzq4b98dev5

Shaykh talks about assisting and being of service to humanity.

[InvertPrete]

As Moulana S'ad sb says "Baaton se baatein pehelti hai aur 'amal se 'amal pehelta hai".["Talks spreads talks,deeds spreads deeds"]

statement of the month, for sharing.

[SigNeewfoew]

Very pertinant issue. Although all that you have mentioned is just one thing from different angles, nontheless I feel we need to expound on it.

Before we continue, I would like to urge that the example of a sheikh and mureed was not well suited here, since it brought the unfortunate barrage of few replies you got. But the point is valid.. what other forms of Da'wah and Tableegh do we or can we do.

The obligation to the self is reformatory, so that is a seperate topic on its own. The issue of fikr for other is what is being highlighted. I feel there is one point being misunderstood however. i.e The duty of tableegh or da'wah is mutlaq (general) so even a small act of kindness with the intention of it being da'wah will fulfil the requirement and the duty. What TJ does is active form of reminder of deen and that too on a major part within muslims, and at certain measures towards non muslims.

Nontheless here is what I can think off.. on top of my head..

- a person teaches another how to recite basic surahs.
- a person say salam to his fellow brother (perhaps neighbour at home or at work) with the intention of it being a means of guidance.
- a qari teaching tajweed
- an imaam leading salah
- calling out adhaan
- wearing correct attire with intention of it being da'wah
- keeping beard to fulfil an obligation and adding the niyah of it being a da'iyyah (same with niqab)
- a woman restraining her self from talking excessively without need when out of home.
- helping out that old man carry some luggage, or give him a lift.
- saying to some one at the mall who you know is a muslim.
- send some food / or raw vegitables or anything to your neighbour with the message that we love you for sake of Allah
- help the person in your isle at the shop who is short of a couple of bobs (provided its not for alcohol)
- answer on sunniforum or other forums with correct intention and sincerity (giving reliable information from authentic sources)
- inviting fellow brothers/sisters for chai and talk about deeni issues instead of arsenal and manchester united.
- offer to help in local food and shelter program with an intention to help their souls as well.
- give out islamic material, pamphlets etc
- give money to organizations you know are working to call towards deen
- give time for your local masjid as a valet/carpark assistant for that program certain sheikh is conducting.
- if you are student of deen, then sit in your class! that is your da'wah
- visit hospitals or old people homes and talk casually with them with intention of da'wah toward haq. (ofcourse if you go like an evangilist, it will become your last visit)
- take the time out to visit that one friend who you got angry at and never spoke again.
- go out of the way to make something for that uncle who always causes fitna in your masjid.
- make food for TJ sathies even if you have no intention of going in khurooj
- ...

more are coming to mind but I think the idea is clear.. almost anything becomes a da'wah with the right intention, sincerity and mindset. After all hidaya is from Allah and it can come to that athiest who you gave food on the day he was hungry, even without any active intention of Da'wah.. Or that jews who saw your topi and started inquisition about it being yarmulk and finally being bewildered at the concept of covering head in islam.. May Allah give him hidaya towards deen. Ameen

asak,

all other methods are great, a lot of these things mentioned should be part of aa muslims nature/daily life.

However as with everything in life certain things are carried out more effectively in certain ways. TJ has many problems as do many of its worker but there are 2 things that make it more effective than most other methods. the networking effect and anyone who does business can tell you all about the networking for success, and the fact it provides a quick and easily accesible training ground for future daees. future daees are up and about doing the practicals real quick, i.e calling people to the msjid, rather than sitting down for years learning the theory. these 2 things combined have given it such a ripple effect that it has pawned all other movements/methods of dawa in the last 100 years, and that is why the Tj method is such a great method, even though it of course has problems, the method is probably the best for effective dawa to muslims. The results speak for themselves.

[evarekataVame]

Salaam,

This is a good point being made.

Things that come to mind are going to those people who are often neglected, like for example, going to homeless shelters, hospitals, drug rehabilitation centers, half way houses, etc, and applying to be a "chaplain" and helping Muslims that are really messed up in serious ways get some help. Christians are doing it and it is swaying a lot of weak Muslims, just they get waswas that no one cares about them.

Also, volunteer to help new immigrants to your community, both Muslim and non-Muslim, as many Muslims that come to Western countries are overwhelmed and have difficulty getting on their feet and usually Christians are the ones that help them, and also non-Muslim immigrants sometimes have been abused by Muslims in their own countries, so if a Muslim is taking the time to help them in a new land, this would be a good form of da'wah.

When a someone becomes a Muslim, do ziyara with them of various Muslims in the neighborhood and introduce them to the community. Converts can feel isolated and overwhelmed, and can even leave the din if they are left alone and neglected. But if they meet as many Muslims as they can, tell them how they converted, etc, it will have a double effect; it will help the convert feel welcome and more part of the community, and it also gives the other Muslims a boost in iman to see this.

START A SOUP KITCHEN.

HAND OUT BLANKETS AND WARM CLOTHING TO HOMELESS PEOPLE.

Basically, HELP THE POOR.

Invite people to your house to have food, etc, Muslim and non-Muslim. If you work somewhere, invite every co member to your house to have tea and food (one at a time), and make friends with them. If you are a student, do the same with your classmates. There is this one professor from Kashmir, every month he cooks haleem and biryani for his class, and they love it.

Muslims can also organize speakers and functions to the whole community (non-muslim and muslim) if their masjid has the facility, and become a hub of community activity. Like, if there is an issue going in the community that is buzzing, Muslims should volunteer their facilities to have a "town meeting" kind of thing, and invite relevant people to speak about the issue and here people concerns. In this way the non-Muslims will realize that Muslims ARE a part of the community and care about what is going IN the community, not just things that are going on abroad. And after, feed everybody for free.

There are lots of things that individuals and groups can do.


.