[freddyujnf]

A relevant fatwa on this issue of tasmiya: http://www.shafiifiqh.com/is-saying-...hafii-opinion/


Summary

• The official view of both Imām ash-Shāfi‘ī and his school considers the dhabihah of one who intentionally omits the tasmiyah as halal.

• The dhabihah of one who omits the tasmiyah istikhfāfan is haram.

• Tahāwun with the proffered meaning above will not be equated to istikhfāf in the Shāfi‘ī school. Thus the dhabihah of a Muslim who constantly omits the tasmiyah will be halal.

Proofs

قال في المجموع: (فرع) في مذاهب العلماء في التسمية على ذبح الأضحية وغيرها من الذبائح وعلى إرسال الكلب والسهم وغيرهما إلى الصيد، مذهبنا أنها سنة في جميع ذلك فان تركها سهوا أو عمدا حلت الذبيحة ولا إثم عليه، قال العبدري: وروي هذا عن ابن عباس وأبي هريرة وعطاء، وقال أبو حنيفة: التسمية شرط للاباحة مع الذكر دون النسيان وهذا مذهب جماهير العلماء، وعن أصحاب مالك قولان، أصحهما: كمذهب أبى حنيفة، والثاني: كمذهبنا، وعن أحمد ثلاث روايات، الصحيحة عندهم والمشهورة عنه أن التسمية شرط للاباحة فان تركها عمدا أو سهوا في صيد فهو ميتة، والثانية: كمذهب أبي حنيفة، والثالثة: إن تركها على إرسال السهم ناسيا أكل وان تركها على الكلب والفهد لم يؤكل، قال: وإن تركها في ذبيحة سهوا حلت وإن تركها عمدا فعنه روايتان، وقال ابن سيرين وأبو ثور وداود: لا تحل سواء تركها عمدا أو سهوا هذا نقل العبدري، وقال ابن المنذر عن الشعبي ونافع كمذهب ابن سيرين قال: وممن أباح أكل ما تركت التسمية عليه ابن عباس وأبو هريرة وسعيد بن المسيب وطاوس وعطاء والحسن البصري والنخعي وعبد الرحمن بن أبي ليلى وجعفر بن محمد والحكم وربيعة ومالك والثوري وأحمد وإسحاق وأبو حنيفة،

واحتج لمن شرط التسمية بقوله تعالى: ولا تأكلوا مما لم يذكر اسم الله عليه وانه لفسق وعن أنس أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: «إذا أرسلت كلبك المعلم فاذكر اسم الله وكل ما أمسك عليك» وفي رواية «فان خالطها كلاب من غيرها فلا تأكل فانما سميت على كلبك ولم تسم على غيره» وفي رواية «إذا ارسلت كلبك فاذكر اسم الله» وفي رواية «إذا رميت سهمك فاذكر الله» رواه البخاري ومسلم بهذه الروايات، وعن أبي ثعلبة الخشني رضى الله عنه ان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال له: «وما صدت بقوسك فذكرت اسم الله عليه فكل وما صدت بكلبك المعلم فذكرت اسم الله تعالى عليه فكل» وفى رواية «فما صدت بقوسك فاذكر اسم الله ثم كل وما صدت بكلبك المعلم فاذكر اسم الله ثم كل»

واحتج أصحابنا بقول الله تعالى حرمت عليكم الميتة والدم إلى قوله تعالى الا ما ذكيتم فأباح المذكَّى ولم يذكر التسمية، فان قيل: لا يكون مذكًّى إلا بالتسمية، قلنا: الذكاة في اللغة الشق والفتح وقد وجدا، وأيضا قوله تعالى: وطعام الذين أوتوا الكتاب حل لكم فأباح ذبائحهم ولم يشترط التسمية، وبحديث عائشة رضى الله عنها أنهم قالوا: يا رسول الله إن قومنا حديث عهد بالجاهلية يأتون بلحمان لا ندرى أذكروا اسم الله عليه أم لم يذكروا فنأكل منها فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: «سموا وكلوا» حديث صحيح رواه البخاري في صحيحه ورواه أبو داود والنسائي وابن ماجه بأسانيد صحيحة كلها، فإسناد النسائي وابن ماجه على شرط البخاري ومسلم وإسناد أبي داود على شرط البخاري، قال أصحابنا وقوله صلى الله عليه وسلم: «سموا وكلوا» هذه التسمية المستحبة عند أكل كل طعام وشرب كل شراب فهذا الحديث هو المعتمد في المسألة: وأحاديث أبي هريرة قال: جاء رجل إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال: يا رسول الله أرأيت الرجل يذبح وينسى أن يسمي فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: «اسم الله على كل مسلم» فهذا حديث منكر مجمع على ضعفه ذكره البيهقي وبين أنه منكر ولا يحتج به وهذا حديث الصلت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: «ذبيحة المسلم حلال ذكر اسم الله أو لم يذكر» فهذا حديث مرسل ذكره أبو داود في المراسيل والبيهقي، وأجاب أصحابنا عن الآية التي احتج بها الأولون أن المراد ما ذبح للأصنام كما قال تعالى في الآية الأخرى وما ذبح على النصب وما أهل به لغير الله ولهذا قال تعالى ولا تأكلوا مما لم يذكر اسم الله عليه وانه لفسق وقد أجمعت الأمة على أن من أكل متروك التسمية ليس بفاسق فوجب حملها على ما ذكرناه ويجمع بينها وبين الآيات السابقات مع حديث عائشة، وأجاب بعض أصحابنا بجواب آخر وهو حمل النهي على كراهة التنزيه جمعا بين الأدلة، والجواب عن حديثي علي وأبي ثعلبة أن ذكر التسمية للندب، وجواب آخر عن قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم: «فانما سميت على كلبك» أن المراد بالتسمية الإرسال، والله أعلم

[End of the Fatwa]

To add to this conclusive fatwa, we would like to share the commentary of Imam Taqiy-ud-Din Al-Hisni Al-Husayni from his Kifayat Al-Akhyar on the Ghayat At-Taqrib of Imam Abi Shuja’. Imam Abi Shuja’ states in his Ghayat At-Taqrib,

“There are five things that are recommended at the time of slaughter: 1) Tasmiyah (i.e. mentioning Allah’s name) 2) saying Salat upon the Prophet Muhammad 3) facing the animal towards the Qiblah at the time of slaughter 4) Takbir (i.e. saying Allahu Akbar) 5) making Du’aa for its acceptance.”

Imam Taqiy-ud-Din Al-Hisni says commenting,

“The tasmiyah is recommended due to Allah saying,

فَكُلُواْ مِمَّا ذُكِرَ ٱسْمُ ٱللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ

“So eat from that over which God’s Name has been invoked” [6:118]

and in the two Sahihs it states that the Prophet Muhammad would say Baasmallah at the time of ritual sacrifice and slaughtering. If one does not mention Allah’s name, then the meat is halal. That is due to the fact that Allah made the meat of the people of Book Halal, whereas generally they do not mention Allah’s name, and in the two Sahihs the people said to the Prophet Muhammad, ‘Oh Messenger of Allah! There is a people from the ‘Arab (the nomadic Arabs) who give us meat. We do not know if they pronounce the name of Allah upon it or not. The Prophet Muhammad said to them, “Say the name of Allah, and eat!” And this is proof that it is not obligatory [to recite the name of Allah upon the animal when slaughtering]. There are other proofs besides this.”

[End of Commentary from Kifayatul Akhyar]

[cestsennY]

Also, when discussing the topic at hand, aren't there different type of machines that are used for slaughtering together with different types of methods that are used when using such a machine? Depending on the type of machine and the way it used, it would render machine slaughter haram (or halal)?

[Fluivelip]

Please see here:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=2938&CATE=127

Does this only apply to the hanafi madhhab, or all other madhhabs as well?

Is there any madhhab who's official position from the mujtahideen of the salaf is that machine slaughtering (or such slaughtering) is permissible?

Please site fatwa by respective 'ulama of the madhhab to reference any claim.

[enentique]

Please see here:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=2938&CATE=127

Does this only apply to the hanafi madhhab, or all other madhhabs as well?

Is there any madhhab who's official position from the mujtahideen of the salaf is that machine slaughtering (or such slaughtering) is permissible?

Please site fatwa by respective 'ulama of the madhhab to reference any claim.

Salamu aleykum
Whit all due respect to allama mufti Taqyi al-Din Usmani what he mentions about Imam al-shafi'i is his understanding of the texts. When it comes to the shafi'i madh-hab the position is clear. Tasmiyya is not a condition and slaughter will be halal even if the tasmiyya was left out on purpose (if all other conditions are fulfilled).

I remember reading that Mufti Ali Jumua' said that machineslaughtered meat is halal, but i cant find the fatwa.

Im not a scholar but according to the little i know i does look like machine slaughter will be halal if the process was done by a muslim or someone who is really considered ahl al-kitab. Maybe someone could send the question to shaykh Amjad Rashid at sunnipath.

[Stivenslivakovishhhs]

Imam al-Shafi'iyys opinion is not the relied-upon position in the school. It's what Imam Nawawiyy and Imam Rafi'iyy agreed upon. So with all due respect what Mufti Taqiyy wrote does not hold much weight.

[nancywind]

Salamu aleykum
Whit all due respect to allama mufti Taqyi al-Din Usmani what he mentions about Imam al-shafi'i is his understanding of the texts. When it comes to the shafi'i madh-hab the position is clear. Tasmiyya is not a condition and slaughter will be halal even if the tasmiyya was left out on purpose (if all other conditions are fulfilled).

I remember reading that Mufti Ali Jumua' said that machineslaughtered meat is halal, but i cant find the fatwa.

Im not a scholar but according to the little i know i does look like machine slaughter will be halal if the process was done by a muslim or someone who is really considered ahl al-kitab. Maybe someone could send the question to shaykh Amjad Rashid at sunnipath.

I was told that machine slaughtered meat is HALAL according to the Shafi'i school, but only if the person who operates the machine is Muslim or Ahlul-kitab AND the operator of the machine acts upon the machine for each animal.

For example, if a person had a handheld motorized knife... the fact that the knife is a machine is insignificant. As long as the Muslim (or kitabi) uses it to cut the neck of every animal, they will each be Halal.

However, if the animals are on a conveyor belt and a giant machine slaughters each animal in turn, and the only thing that the operator has to do is press 'on' in the morning, and 'off' at night (while not actively operating the machine during the interim), then only the very first animal slaughtered each day is Halal and all the rest are Haram, because only the first slaughter was due to the Muslim (or kitabi) operating the machine. The rest were all automatic, and the Muslim (or kitabi) was not part of the process. For those animals, the slaughter was not done BY a Muslim (or kitabi), but was done BY the machine.

In short, there is difference between (a) a Muslim using a machine as a tool to DO the slaughtering, and (b) the machine itself doing the slaughtering.

[zbckFNlW]

Interesting.
Any clear statements from Imam Nawawi and ar-Rafi'i stating that the animal would be halal, even if the tasmiyah was left out, due to taking it lightly (istikhfafan)?

[Goalseexere]

I was told that machine slaughtered meat is HALAL according to the Shafi'i school, but only if the person who operates the machine is Muslim or Ahlul-kitab AND the operator of the machine acts upon the machine for each animal.

For example, if a person had a handheld motorized knife... the fact that the knife is a machine is insignificant. As long as the Muslim (or kitabi) uses it to cut the neck of every animal, they will each be Halal.

However, if the animals are on a conveyor belt and a giant machine slaughters each animal in turn, and the only thing that the operator has to do is press 'on' in the morning, and 'off' at night (while not actively operating the machine during the interim), then only the very first animal slaughtered each day is Halal and all the rest are Haram, because only the first slaughter was due to the Muslim (or kitabi) operating the machine. The rest were all automatic, and the Muslim (or kitabi) was not part of the process. For those animals, the slaughter was not done BY a Muslim (or kitabi), but was done BY the machine.

In short, there is difference between (a) a Muslim using a machine as a tool to DO the slaughtering, and (b) the machine itself doing the slaughtering.

This should be ok in the Hanafi madhb as well, as long as he takes the name of Allah each time.
However, I don't think any plant works this way.

[maxfieldj1]

This should be ok in the Hanafi madhb as well, as long as he takes the name of Allah each time.
However, I don't think any plant works this way.

But the point is that the operator must operate on the machine for each slaughter. So, for example, if there was big conveyor belt carrying animals through a plant. And there was a Muslim who had to push a button EACH TIME a new animal came so that the machine would cut the neck. Then, according to what I was told, the meat would be halal, even though the Muslim didn't even touch the knife. He pushed the button that made the knife cut the neck, so it would still be halal.

But if he only pushes the button once, and 100 slaughtered animals come out the other end, then only the first animal is Halal.

[attractiveweb]

Interesting.
Any clear statements from Imam Nawawi and ar-Rafi'i stating that the animal would be halal, even if the tasmiyah was left out, due to taking it lightly (istikhfafan)?

The question of istikhfaaf is a question that I haven't been taught. I would be concerned that belittling a sunnah would have more serious consequences than rendering the meat Haram.

[Gozmand]

Sidi Yahya

But even if he did push the button for every single animal, it would still be the work of the machine. He pushed the button for the machine to slaughter the animal. Even though I understand the reasoning behind your statement, it's not essentially true because it's still the machine. If you know what I mean.

Abdul-Hadi

[datingcrew]

But the point is that the operator must operate on the machine for each slaughter. So, for example, if there was big conveyor belt carrying animals through a plant. And there was a Muslim who had to push a button EACH TIME a new animal came so that the machine would cut the neck. Then, according to what I was told, the meat would be halal, even though the Muslim didn't even touch the knife. He pushed the button that made the knife cut the neck, so it would still be halal.

But if he only pushes the button once, and 100 slaughtered animals come out the other end, then only the first animal is Halal.

Yes, that is exactly what our Mufti's say as well, however there is a problem with this system too, ie.
It is close to impossible that the machine would be cutting the required veins of each animal. There will have to be someone ensuring that the correct veins have been cut of each chicken and if not, ensure that that chicken/s is removed from the line and slaughtered if not dead yet.
This would be very difficult to ensure.

[lizadax]

The question of istikhfaaf is a question that I haven't been taught. I would be concerned that belittling a sunnah would have more serious consequences than rendering the meat Haram.

By istikhfaf here, belittling isn't meant.
It refers to leaving it out, due to taking it lightly.

The ibarat of al-Umm states:
أن المسلم إن نسي إسم الله تعالى أكلت ذبيحته أو تركه استخفافا لم تؤكل ذبيحته

[Rithlilky]

Here is a Hanafi fatwa on this method of slaughter, from Dar al-Ulum Azadville:

ASSALAMU-ALAIKUM

RE: MACHINE SLAUGHTERING METHODS

We have received your letter wherein you queried the Shar'ie status of chickens that are slaughtered mechanically with the aid of modern machinery. Our response follows: -

The modern machine slaughtering technology usually entails multiple slaughtering of several birds at a time. For instance, there may be perhaps twenty blades in the slaughtering area and when twenty birds are transported to this area by means of the conveyor belt and positioned beneath the blades, the controller (who must be a Muslim) will recite Bismillah when pressing a button. Once the button is pressed, all twenty blades would drop simultaneously upon the necks of the birds, cutting the rudimentary veins of each bird. Fundamentally, on the basis of the ruling and guidelines expounded by the Fuqahaa (Jurists), this method should be permissible and such slaughtering would make the consuming of such birds to be Halaal; as can be borne out from the following text of Fataawa Aalamgiri: -

Translation: If a person puts one goat on top of another and, whilst reciting Tasmiyyah, slaughters both of them with one action (by letting the knife go through BOTH their necks at once), that one Tasmiyyah will suffice for making both goats Halaal. If a person gathers several birds in his hand and, reciting the Tasmiyyah once, slaughters them one after the other WITHOUT reciting Tasmiyyah on the subsequent birds, then ONLY the first bird will be Halaal and NOT the remaining ones (i.e. the first Tasmiyyah will suffice for ONLY the FIRST bird and NOT for ALL the birds). However, IF he passes the blade through ALL the birds with one stroke, then the one Tasmiyyah would suffice for making ALL the birds Halaal. [Fataawa Aalamgiri, Vol. 5, Pg. 289].

On the basis of the above textual reference, machine slaughtering SHOULD render the chickens to be Halaal for consumption, which is the view opted for by SOME Ulema, such as Hadhrat Mufti Muhammed Shafee' Saheb rahmatullahi alaih and Hadhrat Moulana Rasheed Saheb Ludhianwi (madda zillahu), (as also mentioned in a Fatwa of Darul Uloom Zakariyya). A senior Mufti of Darul-Uloom Deoband, Hadhrat Mufti Nizamud-deen Saheb (madda zillahu) has also sanctioned it but with some reservations. (Fataawa Nizamiyyah, Vol. 1, Pg. 410).

HOWEVER, it is evident that the example cited in the text of Fataawa Aalamgiri is, first and foremost, related to a very scaled down version of multiple slaughtering and, secondly, the multiple slaughtering has been done MANUALLY due to which it can be properly controlled and supervised. In such a case, the slaughterer will be able to gauge exactly whether the knife has correctly sliced through the required veins expelling all the birds' running blood ("Dam-e-Masfooh") and also whether the birds were alive at the time of the knife going through their necks.

In modern type mechanical slaughtering, it would be extremely difficult to keep proper track and control of the slaughtering. The controller's job is to recite Tasmiyyah and press the button for releasing the blades as each new batch of chickens are brought to the slaughtering area by the conveyor belts. Due to the speed of these machines, many factors could occur which render the chickens Haraam. First of all, there is always the possibility of the controller being distracted by something which causes him to omit reciting Tasmiyyah on a certain batch. Such omission would NOT be as a result of forgetfulness, but because of negligence. Secondly, there is also the strong possibility that one of the many chickens in the slaughtering area happens to swing out of position just prior to the blade dropping, which could result in the required veins NOT being cut. Thirdly, there is the possibility that one or more of the chickens - due to the trauma of being tied or swung up on the carrier cables and then whisked away speedily on the conveyor belts - die before they even reach the slaughtering area. This would result in such a chicken being Haraam and one would NOT be able to separate and distinguish them later from the Halaal ones. One sign of distinction could be to see whether adequate running blood ("Dame-Masfooh") has been expelled or not, but the chickens move past at such speeds that it is difficult to observe this and keep track of it.

Due to these complications and adverse factors, machine slaughtering would NOT be permissible in terms of Shar'iah.

Our advice would be to adhere to the tried and tested method of manual slaughtering and abstain from these new modern-age mechanical and automated methods that could create problems as far as Shar'ie requirements are concerned.

AND ALLAH TA'AALA KNOWS BEST

[Stovegeothnon]

Too many places machine slaughter now...this is defintely not a good thing in my opinion.

[StampNews]

Here is the Mufti of Egypts fatwa

Speaking on behalf of the Muslim community in Poland, we would like to inform you that we are facing difficulties as regards the issue of slaughtering cattle and poultry as well as the legality of the manner in which slaughter is executed in Poland. Fortunately, we have found a Polish firm that expresses its desire to cooperate with us in this regard. We would like to inquire: Is it sufficient to mention the Name of Allah, just for one time, at the beginning of skinning the slaughtered animal in the morning of each day for all slaughtered animal during that day? Furthermore, we would like to draw your attention to the fact that we have seen, with our own eyes, that the poultry return to life after being electrically shocked at the electrified basin. In order to assure Muslims about this matter, we would like the word "Halal" (Lawful) be written on the packaged meats, of course after receiving your legal Fatwa.

Answer:
In case it is medically and scientifically proved that a certain method of restraining the animal before slaughtering it causes that animal to depart stable state of living to death or make uncontrolled movements (of a slaughtered animal), which contradicts the stipulations of slaughtering stated in the Islamic Sharî`ah, then such a method is deemed impermissible. However, if the effects of such methods of slaughtering are limited to just weakening the animal's resistance or alleviating its pains during the slaughtering process, and provided that the animal returns to normal life when left without being slaughtered, then it is permissible to use such a method in restraining the animal prior to slaughtering it. The reason behind this is that such a method does not contradict the Shar`î rulings concerning animal slaughtering. As regards pronouncing the Name of Allah upon slaughtering the animal, it is an act of the Sunnah according to the Shâfi`î and Hanbalî Schools, and not a prerequisite for the validity of slaughtering. So, whether the one slaughtering the animal is a Muslim or one of the People of the Book (i.e. Christians and Jews), the slaughtering process shall still be valid even if the Name of Allah is not mentioned. The ruling of slaughtering an animal mechanically is similar to manual slaughtering as long as the animal is slaughtered by the cutting edge and not by any other means. As a result, it is necessary that the one operating the slaughtering machine is a Muslim or one from the People of the Book, and it is impermissible for such a person to be an atheist or one adopting any other religion. Thereupon, the answer to the question at hand is that the meat of an animal is lawful to eat if such an animal is slaughtered by the cutting edge of a device and not any other means; the device is operated by a Muslim or a person from the People of the Book; and the meat of the slaughtered animal is edible for Muslims. The lawfulness of the meat that fulfills these conditions cannot be questioned if the animal is slaughtered through an electric shock as long as it aims at only weakening the animal's resistance while keeping it consciously moving. As for pronouncing the Name of Allah when slaughtering the animal, it is an act of the Sunnah, ignoring which is not a sin, as stated by the Shâfi`î and Hanbalî Schools.

Allah, Exalted be He, Knows Best `Alî Jum`ah The Mufti of Egypt

Mufti AK Hoosen says

Assalaamu alaikum

I cannot agree with the fatwa due to the following:

1. Almighty Allah says in surah 6 verse 121: "And do not consume that on which Almighty Allahs name is not taken & it is a transgression". The vast majority of scholars state that it is a pre-requisite that the Bismillah must be read on each animal before slaughtering.

2. The electrical slaughter also would not be permissible if Bismillah is not read for each animal. The muslims in western countries should take a lesson from the Jews & see how the Rabbis slaughter their kosher animals.

AKH

[bs44MhUW]

By istikhfaf here, belittling isn't meant.
It refers to leaving it out, due to taking it lightly.

The ibarat of al-Umm states:
أن المسلم إن نسي إسم الله تعالى أكلت ذبيحته أو تركه استخفافا لم تؤكل ذبيحته

Salamu aleykum
This is actually what is said in al-Umm:
قال الشافعي ) رحمه الله : أحل الله طعام أهل الكتاب وكان طعامهم عند بعض من حفظت عنه من أهل التفسير ذبائحهم وكانت الآثار تدل على إحلال ذبائحهم فإن كانت ذبائحهم يسمونها لله تعالى فهي حلال وإن كان لهم ذبح آخر يسمون عليه غير اسم الله تعالى مثل اسم المسيح أو يذبحونه باسم دون الله تعالى لم يحل هذا من ذبائحهم ولا أثبت أن ذبائحهم هكذا فإن قال قائل وكيف زعمت أن ذبائحهم صنفان وقد أبيحت مطلقة ؟ قيل قد يباح الشيء مطلقا وإنما يراد بعضه دون بعض فإذا زعم زاعم أن المسلم إن نسي اسم الله تعالى أكلت ذبيحته وإن تركه استخفافا لم تؤكل ذبيحته وهو لا يدعه للشرك كان من يدعه على الشرك أولى أن تترك ذبيحته The passage of istikhfaf is not the opinion of Imam al-Shafi'i radiya Allahu anhu. He's using it as an example to make a point against someone asking how imam al-Shafi'i can claim that the meat from the people of the book can be divided into two categories (halal and haram) when the Quran says that it has been made halal without reservations.

If i understand it correctly the argument goes like this:

Imam Shafi'i: Meat from the people of the book can be halal (if the name of God is invoced) or haram (if the name of someone else is invoced).

Oponent: How can you divide the meat into two categories when the Quran states that their meat is halal for us?

Imam Shafi'i: Sometimes something is made halal without reservations, but, in reality only some parts are intended thereby (sorry for my poor english).

And now Imam al-Shafi'i gives an example to prove his point. He says: If someone claims that the dhabiha of a muslim who forgets to mention the name of God is halal, and that it wont be halal if he leaves it out istikhfafan, in spite of the fact that he doesnt omit the tasmiyya because of shirk, then what is youre opinion about someone omiting the tasmiyya because of shirk?

i.e. if some scholars say that the dhabiha of a muslim omiting the tasmiya istikhfafafan is not halal. What do you think about a christian slaughtering in the name of other than God?

Allahu A'lam

[abOfU9nJ]

Jazakallah, what you have mentioned does seem to be correct.

Mufti Taqi sahib seems to have understood Imam Shafi'i to be accepting these points, when it seems that Imam Shafi'i was just using them against one who holds that view, not accepting it himself.

That then fits in properly with the Shafi'i madhab's view of the tasmiyah being sunnah or mustahab, as leaving a mustahab out due to it being mustahab, shouldn't have any effect at all on the permissibility of the animal.

[Bugamerka]

Mufti Husain Sahab, could you kindly verify my understanding, and clarify few questions?

From what I understood, according to the Shafi'i and Hanbali madhhabs, it is okay to consume machine slaughtered meat where the tasmiyah/basmalah was read only in the beginning for all chickens, because it is considered to be sunnah/mustahab and not a requirement?

If that is so,
- what do you do when your parents do not know what madhhab they follow, and they buy machine slaughtered meat, and you as a adherant to the hanafi fiqh do not want to eat that meat?
- how do you explain this issue to them since they don't know what madhhabs are even, or the basis of differences among them?
- if parents do not follow a madhhab, and you fear it would be difficult/unwise to explain the madhhab issues to them (as they may not be able to grasp), would you let them continue to buy the meat, saying to yourself, that 'according to a valid islamic school of thought, this meat is permissible'?
- would you, as an adherant of the hanafi madhhab, be allowed to consume this meat offered to you buy your parents, or in some family gathering, or restaurant, etc?

JazaakAllaahu khairan.

[hablyShappY]

Mufti Husain Sahab, could you kindly verify my understanding, and clarify few questions?

From what I understood, according to the Shafi'i and Hanbali madhhabs, it is okay to consume machine slaughtered meat where the tasmiyah/basmalah was read only in the beginning for all chickens, because it is considered to be sunnah/mustahab and not a requirement?

No, it isn't.
Each chicken has to be slaughtered by a Muslim, with all the conditions of zabh adhered to.
However, the Shafi'i's don't take tasmiyah to be a condition.

Machine slaughter isn't permissible, accept if it fulfils strict conditions, as mentioned in a few posts above.
Normal machine slaughtered chickens are not halal.