[mymnduccete]

Generalization is the greatest mistake done by many people like you regarding Pakistan. This country contains different types of people and they are more vigorous than many other nations. Many great Ulama, Mujahideen and pious people always remain in this country. On the other hand great hypocrite, evil and oppressors also belong to this state.

Corrupt people are easily exploited by the Jewish banking cartel. Check this thread.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...or-the-Indians

Pakistan is NOT a MUSLIM state

Pakistan is a FAILED state

Pakistani Muslims are just failures since they elected those in power.

May Allah swt unite Pakistan and allow the true message of Islam enter the people's hearts

well, it could pperhaps be said that Islam was too big for Pakistan to keep as its private domain. The reality is Pakistan was unable to grab and hold Islam as though Islam and Pakistan were one and the same. To be sure, Pakistani leaders, for decades behaved as though Pakistan was Islam and Islam was Pakistan. Even before independence, Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan had called the flag of his political party, the Muslim League as the Flag of Islam and had said you cannot separate the Muslim League from Islam. A very popular slogan in Pakistan was, "Pakistan ka matlab kya, La ilahaillallah".

The slogan combines a few arabic words taken from the Quran (La ilaha illallah) -and attaches those words to Pakistan to make the meaning What does Pakistan mean there is no God but God - implying that Pakistan and Islam are one and the same.

But we all know this charade could only last a few years before the fallacies began to show. To me they are more confused as a nation than anyone else. Of course they tend to blame outsiders while we all know the problem lies within. Even the so called Ulemaa in Pakistan are just powerless. MashAllah I cant knock them down for their knowledge of Hadith etc but the reality is they are not as powerful as to scare off the politicians let alone guide the Muslim on who they should vote for.

To me they are not just a failed state (I cant call them a Muslim State), but also they are more like opportunistic country wich has Muslim inhabitants who are quite happy to elect SHIA'S and corrupt leaders in power

May Allah reward them for their deeds.

[MizzDaizzy]

Come on guys and girls, make my day, say some thing faith boosting.

[saumemeva]

Come on guys and girls, make my day, say some thing faith boosting.

"qul: islamtu lirabbil alamin"

[GinaGomesz]

Does anyone know how Pakistan can retain its sovereignty and possibly be a role model to other countries?

This is a vital priority topic: the very SOVEREIGNTY of Pakistan is in doubt!!!

Yes, 99% Muslim, over 150 million people- but the Muslim Ummah in Pakistan does NOT control it's own SOVEREIGNTY.

To RETAKE control, it MUST expel the occupiers. That means expelling America, closing it's bases, embassy, consulates, expelling all military officials, all military contractors, all CIA/DOD/Nato/UN officers, operatives, assets. (UN affiliated military officials are renowned as spies for America even if they are from countries other than America, such as Sweden, EU, etc.)

As for private Americans in Pakistan, they have to be closely scrutinized. Those with close ties to the government, such as corporate executives, work in proximity with US govt interests without direct govt authority or license. All US military contractors DO have close ties to the DOD, so must be expelled. Companies with sensitive interests, such as energy, electronics, finance, such all be put under scrutiny.

[What is it that Indonesia or Malaysia has that Pakistan doesn't?

Both of these countries have rich natural resources. Malaysia was granted a large share of natural resources for a small population, allowing for similar advantages that European countries like Norways enjoys: tiny population with vast resources.

As well, both countries were under military dictatorships which catered to American interests for decades while developing their economic infrastructure. Pakistan did not enjoy this. Rather, Pakistan's ruling establishment was more renowned for syphoning wealth from the country to Europe and America to serve their selfish, greedy ends (including serving their families, and their minority communities) rather than the greater good. We all know of rich Pakistani families in Britain and America who have enjoyed riches and power for years.
In contrast, Malays are not well known for their syphoning, elitism, etc. to the West. I'm sure it exists, but not the extent as in Pakistan. Rather, more has been reinvested in the two countries for their own profit and benefit, which has translated into benefit for their countries. Hence, mining in Indonesia results in billions for elites, but also jobs and some minor growth. Reinvestment by elites has fostered in Malaysia and Indonesia by ASEA and America in particular through economic liberalism.

[How influential is Pakistan around the world in terms of social political and economic matters? (outside the gulf and middle east)

Is it fair to say that Pakistan is just another failed state but this time a muslim majority failed state whose only gamble is nuclear bomb and that's it.

Pakistan is a failed nationalist enterprise, imho.
America is going about deconstructing it in order to reconstruct it in an image which serves its own regional interests, namely as a gateway for American and Indian access to Central Asia. One of the sayings of Neo Con imperialism in Washington DC is: from crisis/chaos comes opportunity. They image opportunity in destroying Pakistan. Thus, they induce chaos via controlled measures, such as black ops and full spectrum political strategies - not too dissimilar from how communist putschists implemented strategies in Eastern Europe in the early 1900s CE, except with full government coordination.

Pakistan as a nation state will likely NOT survive. Balochistan, Waziristan, Kashmir- are all likely for fragmentation. And the Pakistani political classes- Zardari and his ilk- all stand to ally with and capitulate to America's efforts, profit personally, and retain in power politically until America finds more suitable puppets, as they are expendible.

Unless Pakistan undergoes those drastic measures which I originally mentioned- total dissociation from America (even if it allows American companies to return, but under controlled circumstances)- Pakistan is on a course of its own deconstruction.

BTW, while American Neo Cons say: from crisis/chaos emerges opportunity, Will Durant, the famous Western historian claimed: "civilizations begin with order, grow with liberty, and die with chaos" .

And most certainly, Allah knows best.

[snislarne]

Shias who were voted in by majority Sunnis

aint that something?

I dont think there is anything wrong in voting for shias or ahmadis or any non muslim or a woman
While voting for anyone I am not endorsing his religious faith or doing a bayah for him/her

[ñàéäèíã]

brother Usama.

Pakistan has the bring home and eat mentality.
Government brings the American dole and then they have a party.
The citizen brings his meager number of petrodollars home and has a party - it is many times larger money then the local one sweating in the sun can muster.

This can not be, most certainly, the Islamic ideal. Even India did better in the sense that there was a vision to develop a science and technology establishment from day one. Nehru was a sort of inauguration champion - a dam here, a steel plant there, an institute of technology there, a laboratory of physics there, a laboratory of chemistry there. His daughter carried the mantle forward. The result is that by now India is in top world economies. India in a way put US in place. US was skimming the cream from India, China and Korea in the sense that many highly trained engineers and scientists will make their way to the US. But India kept churning them out. Now the US is saturated and everybody is finding it difficult to have a job - including US citizen.

The biggest block in throwing out US from Pakistan is the problem of self-sufficiency. Sooner or later they got to ponder over it. Bhuttos, Shariefs and Generals can not do that. It requires statesmen. I am not one of those who would believe that Pakistan is singularly unlucky in this aspect and is deprived by Lord Almighty, may He (SWT) forgive. But these saviours of Islamic spirit have to step forward. No Zardaris and Hina Rabbanis are not them. I'll use the anonymity of the interior of a paragraph to insert my view - our elders should allow Muslims to take the worldly affairs in their hands. It is Sunnah for till beloved Prophet (PBUH) was around every single temporal affair was under his supervision. To allow secular, liberal, corrupt or anti-Islam elements to run the temporal affairs is subversion of Islam and we got to wake up about this infirmity of ours. So go on your knees and beg in front of the elders - to allow you to take the temporal affairs in your hands. Of course there is a lacuna in this reasoning but I shall divulge that only after getting a hint that this has been read.

[Tusanoc]

Here are some articles i came across which highlight the state and situation of Pakistan pretty well:

Pakistan a failed nation:
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2011/12/03/pa...failed-nation/

The loss of moral and values in pakistan
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/02/17/th...s-in-pakistan/

disturbing realities about the founding fathers of pakistan
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/07/18/di...s-of-pakistan/

Pakistan's attempt at ethnic cleansing
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/03/24/pa...nic-cleansing/

interesting reads for those who want to know more about Pakistan and its on goings.

[dalnecymync]

Here are some articles i came across which highlight the state and situation of Pakistan pretty well:

Pakistan a failed nation:
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2011/12/03/pa...failed-nation/

The loss of moral and values in pakistan
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/02/17/th...s-in-pakistan/

disturbing realities about the founding fathers of pakistan
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/07/18/di...s-of-pakistan/

Pakistan's attempt at ethnic cleansing
http://mybeliefs.co.uk/2012/03/24/pa...nic-cleansing/

interesting reads for those who want to know more about Pakistan and its on goings.

is this your blog?

[Indinehon]

I dont think there is anything wrong in voting for shias or ahmadis or any non muslim or a woman
While voting for anyone I am not endorsing his religious faith or doing a bayah for him/her

you must be a lone ranger in this forum

[KaterinaNJq]

you must be a lone ranger in this forum

I live in india and have voted for non muslims in elections

[GalasaKoll]

Majority of Pakistanis are Muslims

The leadership in Pakistan was voted in after they won votes from the Muslim majority.

I'm very interested to know how you define a Muslim. If you recognize muslim by name only, it'll be the greatest mistake of this era. A true muslim is he, whose "Aqaid" are correct. Now have a look on Pakistan. There are Shi'ites who are not majority, but they are too strong to capture the supreme power of the country. There are Berelwis, strict secularists and moderate secularists who have muslim names. If you wish something different from them, how is it possible?

Moreover, democratic govt doesn't represent the whole nation. Because selection process is absurd and erroneous. If any party gets vote from 50.1% people, its the winner. But what about 49.9% people of opposition? They are nearly equal to the former percentage.

So we shouldn't generalize all the muslims of any country.

[Controller]

Dear Brother

The following are my views

1. The map which you have shown just now is incorrect. Jammu and Kashmir is the integral part of India and will be always the Integral part of India.
2. Muslims of India are far more religious and closer to deen than muslims of Pakistan. So instead of looking at Indonesia and Malaysia which is part away from them, they should look at Indian Muslims and try to learn from them.
3. Electing a Shias to helm of Power (Butto, Zardari, etc etc) will worsen the problem and not solve the problem.
4. Pakistan can never will be role model to any other country as probably one of the few islamic country where bombs are blasted in mosques
5. Pakistan is only a puppet of United States of America and the day will come very soon when USA will also desert Pakistan.
6. Nuclear Bomb will always lead to failure and really Pakistan is a failed state. The Best Nuclear Bomb in the World is "THE HOLY QURAN" and if you leave that then nobody can stop you from failures.....

The above posts are just my true views and not in any way to hurt the sentiments of my fellow brothers.

Interesting observations. I would just add that Pakistani leaders claimed that they, and Pakistan, were purely Islamic, and represented Islam. Islam was and still remains the ultimate excuse, the lever that is used in Pakistan to justify anything. For Pakistan, Islam has served as a tool to be used when convenient, to get aid, or to deflect blame or to accuse an adversary of misdeeds. As long as Pakistani leaders hid behind the Islam excuse for their actions, nobody could question them and this is why that country's airspace is often abused by foreign powers like a prostitute.

Also its worth adding that the conditions of life for a Pakistani depend on what class of society one belongs to and whether one lives in a rural or urban area.There are only two main classes of society in Pakistan, the very rich and the very poor and these classes comprise 90% of Pakistan's population.

There is a very small, very rich class of Pakistani. They are the Rich Anglophone Pakistani Elite, sometimes facetiously referred to by the acronym of that name. The acronym R.A.P.E. is perhaps an apt description of what some Pakistanis describe this class. They are the feudal lords, who may own thousands of acres of land.

They might be rich industrialists and businessmen, or they might be serving or retired army officers. The lifestyles of these people can be compared to that of the rich and famous anywhere. They live in fabulous mansions, maintained and supported by armies of servants. These are the beautiful people, the handsome men clad in lounge suits or traditional sherwanis, the mascara and lipstick adorned women in designer dresses, you know the types that would stay for 20 days at Hilton Makkah near by the mosque and pay $10,000 per night and No burkha (veil) for these women such as their current foreign minister.


Basically these elites are educated, often in the best schools and universities of the world. They travel, and are familiar with all the major cities that a man of this world should know about New York, London, Paris, Rome, Geneva. Just to add in London you will probably find them in Mayfair, Chelsea and Kensington if not Surrey Quays where the Bhuttos own swathes of land. You will never find this lot in East Ham, Ilford, Manorpark, Uptonpark or Barking areas. They are seen in parties and receptions attended by friends and diplomats, actors and society people. Their photographs appear in glossy magazines and on the Internet. These charmed people are the Pakistanis that we see and hear.

But the truth is 90 percent of Pakistanis are rarely seen or heard outside Pakistan. They are the servants, the sweepers, the waiters, the casual laborers and sharecroppers, the goatherds and the cleaners with their wives and their children. They can be seen on Pakistani streets and in the villages. The men wear crumpled and seemingly unwashed salwar suits. The women, if seen at all, are covered in burqas as expected of women in ''Islamic''Pakistan. The women do not work outside the home and may have four or more children to bring up.

More than half these people do not earn enough money for a decent life. Most earn less than the equivalent of US $1 per day. Even those who earn more than that often sink below poverty level at certain times of the year, or in times of illness or drought.

That said, I wonder how Pakistan will come out of this mess they are in. Sometimes I feel like maybe the Ulema might be a solution but then again, thats close to impossible if they've failed to wake up the mases for over 50 yrs since independence.

But then again like Bob Marley said, YOU CAN FOOL SOME PEOPLE SOME TIME BUT YOU CANT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. Who know maybe someday they might wake up and smell the coffee

[ZIDouglas]

That said, I wonder how Pakistan will come out of this mess they are in. Sometimes I feel like maybe the Ulema might be a solution but then again, thats close to impossible if they've failed to wake up the mases for over 50 yrs since independence.

what do you want them to do shave their beards and watch films full of cavorting bollywood sluts?

[pinawinekolad]

This is a vital priority topic: the very SOVEREIGNTY of Pakistan is in doubt!!!

Yes, 99% Muslim, over 150 million people- but the Muslim Ummah in Pakistan does NOT control it's own SOVEREIGNTY.

To RETAKE control, it MUST expel the occupiers. That means expelling America, closing it's bases, embassy, consulates, expelling all military officials, all military contractors, all CIA/DOD/Nato/UN officers, operatives, assets. (UN affiliated military officials are renowned as spies for America even if they are from countries other than America, such as Sweden, EU, etc.)

As for private Americans in Pakistan, they have to be closely scrutinized. Those with close ties to the government, such as corporate executives, work in proximity with US govt interests without direct govt authority or license. All US military contractors DO have close ties to the DOD, so must be expelled. Companies with sensitive interests, such as energy, electronics, finance, such all be put under scrutiny.



Both of these countries have rich natural resources. Malaysia was granted a large share of natural resources for a small population, allowing for similar advantages that European countries like Norways enjoys: tiny population with vast resources.

As well, both countries were under military dictatorships which catered to American interests for decades while developing their economic infrastructure. Pakistan did not enjoy this. Rather, Pakistan's ruling establishment was more renowned for syphoning wealth from the country to Europe and America to serve their selfish, greedy ends (including serving their families, and their minority communities) rather than the greater good. We all know of rich Pakistani families in Britain and America who have enjoyed riches and power for years.
In contrast, Malays are not well known for their syphoning, elitism, etc. to the West. I'm sure it exists, but not the extent as in Pakistan. Rather, more has been reinvested in the two countries for their own profit and benefit, which has translated into benefit for their countries. Hence, mining in Indonesia results in billions for elites, but also jobs and some minor growth. Reinvestment by elites has fostered in Malaysia and Indonesia by ASEA and America in particular through economic liberalism.





Pakistan is a failed nationalist enterprise, imho.
America is going about deconstructing it in order to reconstruct it in an image which serves its own regional interests, namely as a gateway for American and Indian access to Central Asia. One of the sayings of Neo Con imperialism in Washington DC is: from crisis/chaos comes opportunity. They image opportunity in destroying Pakistan. Thus, they induce chaos via controlled measures, such as black ops and full spectrum political strategies - not too dissimilar from how communist putschists implemented strategies in Eastern Europe in the early 1900s CE, except with full government coordination.

Pakistan as a nation state will likely NOT survive. Balochistan, Waziristan, Kashmir- are all likely for fragmentation. And the Pakistani political classes- Zardari and his ilk- all stand to ally with and capitulate to America's efforts, profit personally, and retain in power politically until America finds more suitable puppets, as they are expendible.

Unless Pakistan undergoes those drastic measures which I originally mentioned- total dissociation from America (even if it allows American companies to return, but under controlled circumstances)- Pakistan is on a course of its own deconstruction.

BTW, while American Neo Cons say: from crisis/chaos emerges opportunity, Will Durant, the famous Western historian claimed: "civilizations begin with order, grow with liberty, and die with chaos" .

And most certainly, Allah knows best.

some very interesting observations there brother.

[LarryRda]

Pakistan is a great Muslim nation with bright future inshaAllah.What has been said about Pakistan in this thread applies to almost all the Muslim countries without any exception.It is true that some nations are more rich than Pakistan,but that is not solely because of their own efforts,it is because of their natural resources and low population growth.

As for India,what is the comparison ? India is a huge Market, attracting business from everywhere,moreover as it is officially not a Muslim state,they don,t face the same negative feelings and propaganda compaign which is continuously going on against Pakistan.They are hot favourites as compared to Pakistan because no one feel threatened from a Hindu state or a benign Hindu religion which has no parallel programme for the betterment of humanity;The only thing they are good at is to offer the opium of yoga and meditation to the world.

Let me tell the poster from Bombay(h4honesty) that Kashmir is and never will be an integral part of India,if you don,t trust me,ask any Kashmiri in occupied Kashmir.Nehru cheated the whole international community by promising a plabecite which was never to come....typical Hindu mentality full of cheating and conspiracies.no one can control a state by putting more than half a million army there forever,let that half a million army go back and see the results.the hearts and minds of Kashmiri,s are not with you and you can not forcefully occupy them forever,the decision has been made by Kashmiri,s.they don,t want to be part of India and no one can force them to stay with India by killing and raping.India has already lost the war in Kashmir,they are no more than occupiers,and soon this occupation will come to an end too.

Yes,you are right.Pakistan is,or was,a puppet of America,but the new darlings of America,India,must learn from our experiences.America is dangerous for it's enemies,but Lethal for it's friends.Watch your steps,overwhelmed by your Anti- Pakistan sentiments ,you are fast heading towards the trape set by America.

Every one calls Pakistan a hubb of terrorism,was it our own choosing? Did we ask for it?.This war was imposed on Afghanistan by Russians,was a potential threat to Pakistan,and as a Muslim state it was our duty to help our Muslim Brothers defend themselves.Every one foregets now,that that war was supported by the whole world including America and Saudi Arabia.Jehadi,s from the whole Islamic world were encouraged to to go to Afghanistan via Pakistan and fight.Who knew that the 'mujahideen' of that time,who were honoured by reagon even in White house,would be declared terrorists of tomorrow ?.who knew that the same countries who sent those mujahideen would refuse to accept them back,and even cancel their nationalities,leaving no place for them to go except to stay either in Afghanistan or tribal area of Pakistan ? If it was a crime,the whole world is involved in that crime,why single out the poor Pakistan?
In fact Pakistan was the worst affected then and even now by the phenomena which started in late seventies.

And worst of all,after the Russian withdrawal,Pakistan was left alone by the entire international community to deal with the consequences of the war,a task much bigger and larger than the potential of Pakistan.

Then comes the question of Taliban.Who does not know that Taliban were created by the combined efforts of CIA and ISI,to help calm down the continuos bloody civil war in Afghanistan.Still,as a Pakistani, I genuinely feel ashamed by the role of Musharraf govt.against the same Taliban.

We voted XYZ to power ? Yes,but remember that the so called 'Arab spring' has happened many times in Pakistan.It was Pakistani nation who removed Ayub Khan from power after great sacrifices and blood shed....but the result was another Martial Law with the promise of a fair and free election,which ultimately led to the creation of Bangladesh.it was Pakistani masses who removed Bhutto from power through a prolonged and bloody agitation,but had to face another martial law as a result.then the chair game between the Benazir and Sharif thoroughly disappointed the people in the political future of Pakistan,as both were corrupt,both were selfish to the core,both were lazy,lousy and incapable,and both were interested in how to increase their own wealth rather than consolidate the national economy.Recently every one knows the the removal of Musharraf from power was a result of the movement for free judiciary.

So it is not that Pakistani people are doing nothing and just watching.we have tried our best but failed,because every mass movement only benefits the military.
But I must say,no one should under estimate the resolve of the Pakistani nation.Our governments might have failed,but Pskistani nation has not,and never will.we are a strong nation and we will pass through these difficult times,inshaAllah.

[id2008]

is this your blog?

no, as i said a million times before. This is not my blog. i subscribed to the blog a while ago and get regular updates from the author's posts.

[rbVmVlQ2]

no, as i said a million times before. This is not my blog. i subscribed to the blog a while ago and get regular updates from the author's posts.

i didn't know you said it before

[JasminBerkova]

Pakistan and Afghanistan together would make a much more sensible country than these two countries do apart.

If the evil Pakistani upper class disappears and the Americans leave Pakistan what are the chances of this happening?

[Rexaviennatutr]

If the evil Pakistani upper class disappears and the Americans leave Pakistan what are the chances of this happening?

bold part is in process. the normal part will in sha Allah happen after 2014.

one ummah one khilafah.

[THOUTHCAW]

bold part is in process. the normal part will in sha Allah happen after 2014.

one ummah one khilafah.

True,there are no Borders in Islam.