[attractiveweb]

Chittick’s book is a translation with commentary and Shaykh Nuh gushed over Arberry’s translation when there exists many respected English translations by Muslims. In fact, translating the Quran is not simply translation is it? Considering the nature of Quranic Arabic and the skill it requires when rendering it into English( while attempting to maintain rhythmic flow), competence strikes me as a rather limited word to use in regards to Arberry. He is a respected Scholar of Islam and would be called Kuffar by many of you. Anyway, question: if someone like an Arberry helps to strengthen the Islam of many Muslims but is not a Muslim, is his fate the same as someone who is not sympathetic to Islam at all?

Fair enough, they are very skilled translators.

I don't want to speak about Arberry specifically, because I don't know his specific situation. So I'll make the following general statement instead.

Being sympathetic to Islam and helping Muslims is good, but being Muslim is the standard for eternal salvation. So a non-Muslim (assuming he or she received the message of Islam) who has a soft spot for Islam might have a less severe fate in the afterlife than someone who is an outright enemy to Islam, but the fate will still be very bad.

[AgindyMinnife]

Okay, here’s a scenario: Say you have someone like an Arberry who possibly walked through life with a believe in the Islamic concept of God, and because of his proximity to the values of Islam, internalized those values but had never pronounced the Shahada. This person may live his life as a Muslim in how he relates to nature, humanity and the Absolute. His actions may reflect Islam.

Without the reliance on prior authorities, but through your own instinct, do you think that God would recognize that which is in the heart even if it has not manifested in an outward declaration. There are Muslims in speech who are not and then there are those who are silent that may just be.

[ssiikmuz]

!!!

[JonnLeejsp]

Okay, here’s a scenario: Say you have someone like an Arberry who possibly walked through life with a believe in the Islamic concept of God, and because of his proximity to the values of Islam, internalized those values but had never pronounced the Shahada. This person may live his life as a Muslim in how he relates to nature, humanity and the Absolute. His actions may reflect Islam.

Without the reliance on prior authorities, but through your own instinct, do you think that God would recognize that which is in the heart even if it has not manifested in an outward declaration. There are Muslims in speech who are not and then there are those who are silent that may just be.

If a person truly accepts the shahada and all that it entails in his or her heart, then I guess it is possible that such a person might be saved in the next life; but I'm not completely sure to be honest. I do know that such a person wouldn't be considered a Muslim by the Muslim ummah while alive unless he or she uttered the shahada verbally. Allah can ultimately do what he wishes though, and faith in the heart is the most important thing.

Maybe someone else who knows a bit more about this can clarify things.

However, I find it highly unlikely that a person would sincerely believe in Islam and not at least utter the shahada. If the belief is sincere, it wouldn't make sense not to say it.

[exiceJetLip]

This is interesting, there was another thread where a member – I believe it was Marco – argued that Islam predates Buddhism because from the Islamic perspective Islam is the primordial religion, which in its simplest term means submission to the one God. Therefore Adam, Abraham and Moses are considered Muslims. Based on that, it strikes me as a little rich for modern day Muslims to retroactively designate pre-Islamic prophets Muslim with ease, so that some sort of pedigree can be maintained, and then at the same time be so restrictive on who is defined as a Muslim today.

It's not "a little rich" at all brother. The message of Islam is belief and submission to ONE God only and that is Allah. Christianity does not teach that. In fact it teaches polytheism. So just based on that, followers of the latter cannot be classed as muslims! I hope you understand that at least.

Muslims don't define who is classed as muslim, it's Allah SWT in the Quraan. If you read and understood the verses, some of which have been posted on this post, you'd realise that.

The word "Christian" doesn't even exist in the bible FYI so what are the followers of Jesus really called?? Have a think on that one...

Modern day Christians deny many commands of Christianity even though they are clear cut in the Bible. How can they be classed as "muslims" according to your rather vague criteria when they're not even Christians!

Modern day Jews deny many commands of Judaism and promote "Reformation Judaism" even though they are clear cut in their holy scriptures. How can they be classed as "muslims" according to your rather vague criteria when they're not even Jews!

Islam is not "primordial" brother it's universal and timeless. Prophet Isa (as) or Jesus did not live like a Christian does today. He lived and prayed like in many aspects (as shown in the Bible).....a muslim. Shock horror? Go and compare for your own satisfaction.

It's your understanding that's faulty brother, not Islam. The verses for muslims are quite clear, it's you and those that follow your religion that choose to ignore.

[Michmant]

Chittick’s book is a translation with commentary and Shaykh Nuh gushed over Arberry’s translation when there exists many respected English translations by Muslims. In fact, translating the Quran is not simply translation is it? Considering the nature of Quranic Arabic and the skill it requires when rendering it into English( while attempting to maintain rhythmic flow), competence strikes me as a rather limited word to use in regards to Arberry. He is a respected Scholar of Islam and would be called Kuffar by many of you. Anyway, question: if someone like an Arberry helps to strengthen the Islam of many Muslims but is not a Muslim, is his fate the same as someone who is not sympathetic to Islam at all?

One of the best helpers of the Prophet was his uncle abu talib,who helped Islam and the Muslims greatly in the earlier years but he died without iman. So although he will go in hell as he did not embrace Islam,we have been informed that the punishment he will get will be the least from all the inmates of hell.

By the way,if Shaykh Nuh has recommended a book even though its been written by a non Muslim,then I would have no hesitation in reading it. As a general rule,he states we should stay away from them,but there are odd ones which he does recommend or atleast does not mind his murids reading.

[ceagstuntee]

Okay, here’s a scenario: Say you have someone like an Arberry who possibly walked through life with a believe in the Islamic concept of God, and because of his proximity to the values of Islam, internalized those values but had never pronounced the Shahada. This person may live his life as a Muslim in how he relates to nature, humanity and the Absolute. His actions may reflect Islam.

Without the reliance on prior authorities, but through your own instinct, do you think that God would recognize that which is in the heart even if it has not manifested in an outward declaration. There are Muslims in speech who are not and then there are those who are silent that may just be.

I accept the fact that someone in the above scenario will be looked upon with mercy by Allah. The actual connection with belief is in the heart and not just the outward. Look at the hypocrites who outwardly professed Islam but their hearts had disbelief for which they will go to hell.

This is why its very dangerous to speak ill of the those who have died whose belief we don't know.

There are many reasons why a person may accept Islam in their heart but may not openly declare it.

[qd0vhq4f]

It's not "a little rich" at all brother. The message of Islam is belief and submission to ONE God only and that is Allah. Christianity does not teach that. In fact it teaches polytheism. So just based on that, followers of the latter cannot be classed as muslims! I hope you understand that at least.

Muslims don't define who is classed as muslim, it's Allah SWT in the Quraan. If you read and understood the verses, some of which have been posted on this post, you'd realise that.

The word "Christian" doesn't even exist in the bible FYI so what are the followers of Jesus really called?? Have a think on that one...

Modern day Christians deny many commands of Christianity even though they are clear cut in the Bible. How can they be classed as "muslims" according to your rather vague criteria when they're not even Christians!

Modern day Jews deny many commands of Judaism and promote "Reformation Judaism" even though they are clear cut in their holy scriptures. How can they be classed as "muslims" according to your rather vague criteria when they're not even Jews!

Islam is not "primordial" brother it's universal and timeless. Prophet Isa (as) or Jesus did not live like a Christian does today. He lived and prayed like in many aspects (as shown in the Bible).....a muslim. Shock horror? Go and compare for your own satisfaction.

It's your understanding that's faulty brother, not Islam. The verses for muslims are quite clear, it's you and those that follow your religion that choose to ignore.

The religion of all the Prophets is the same and that is Islaam. Their Shariahs vary but their Deen does not and that deen of the fitra (the primordial disposition) is Islam starting from the first man, Aadam alayhis salaam.

[erroxiainsona]

Bro Saad for your brief concise reply.

respected brother Al-Faruqi for your conscientiously detailed reply:

I know this misconception too, as far as I experienced it seems to be advocated by a certain group called "nur cemat" which has its origins in Turkey. So far, I heard it only from followers of this group.

They also misguide their followers into basically believing that shaving the beard is okay, they propagate a shi'a dua book, etc.. There is number of problems with this group.

(The above statements are based on the experiences which I have made with many of their followers in different cities in Germany. (It was not just one guy))

There is nothing wrong with stating the facts and realities:

• Someone who denies Islam or a part of it is a kafir - very clear.
• The Christians and Jews are kuffar.
• The Ahlu Kitab (above) are kuffar.
• The Quranites (Hadith rejectors) are kuffar.
• The Atheists, Communists etc. are kuffar.
• The Qadianis (Ahmadiyya) are kuffar.
• Those fighting against Islam are kuffar.
• Those fighting with the crusaders against Islam are kuffar.

Also read
http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?a...8dc21dda25cb7a
http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?a...36bbc8fd53d7a1
http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?a...3f0a07c9f6e967
http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?a...f94fe7a1dc3672

Sister kayra, I would advise you to buy a book called "The Reliance of the Traveler".
It is a Shafi'i fiqh book, but it contains many essentially useful texts/explanations/articles about topics which are common to all madhhabs and relevant for the common Muslim. (It is available on Amazon) The author, Shaykh Nuh Keller, is a reconvert to Islam who studied Islam and is now an internationally acknowledged scholar and shaykh of Tasawwuf. He follows the Shafi'i madhhab and Shadhili tariqa. May Allah protect him and reward his precious work done for this deen. Amin.

The belief of Ahlu-Sunnah wal Jama'ah concerning this issue is basically:
As long as the person does not deem it allowed (halal) to do a prohibited deed (e.g drink alcohol) he/she will still be a Muslim. But in this case he/she will be an open sinner (fasiq).

A Munafiq is someone with nifaq, i.e. someone who conceals his kufr.
A Mushrik is someone who does shirk, i.e. associating partners with Allah.

Kufr could be approximately translated as "covering the truth", i.e. it means denial
Kuffar is the plural of kafir.

May Allah Most High protect us from these evils and keep our Iman at safety. Amin.

And Allah knows best!



EDIT: Brother Taymullah from Eurabia made a good point.

Somehow or other I'm going to have to re-learn almost everything from scratch - for the second time!

Could it be that one of the reasons that people are so relaxed about the beard issue in Turkey is because they HAVE to be, because otherwise they are branded anti-Ataturk traitors - forget the fact that they can'T work for the state, and all imams and muftis are forbidden to have beards? I'm trying to make husnu-zan here (good assumptions!!).

Can the breakdown of one major Sunnah trigger the breakdown of many other Sunnah, Vajip and Fardh, like dominos? We see it indivivually - could it happen collectively as well, so that banning one Sunnah could trigger the abandoning and neglecting of many Sunnah and Fardh - even embarrassment about associating with people who say loudly "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim" frequently!!

It seems that I hear so many people say, in response to one of my "is so-and-so fardh/ haram/ halal" questions - "Well, look at ME, I only go to the mosque at Ramazan, it's a miracle that we even perform Salah nowadays, our Prophet predicted that these days would come, it's a sign of the times... May Allah forgive us *sigh*".... Like, "Hey, in an ideal world we'd all follow the Sunnah, but what can we do, this breakdown of Islam was pre-ordained, we're just victims!"

It's got to the point where I hardly dare open my mouth to ask or talk about Sunnah or Sharia, for fear of appearing to be criticizing the entire nation, their government, their revered dead leaders, their traditions, their families, their role models, etc.

As for perennialism - here it's called "ilm-i siyaset", as far as I can see. Intentional and wise diplomacy. Not antagonizing the non-Muslims, the liberal Muslims, the atheists, the potential Muslims. Not "scaring people off" by growing beards or wearing hijab, not "putting people off our religion", not "giving the impression that we're fanatics/ uneducated/ ignorant/ anti-Western/ whatever." On a personal interaction level, not "risking being the cause of the person's nafs to rebel by advising good or warning against bad".

So it seems that widespread perennialism results in a very strange, topsy-turvy kind of situation. Good is bad, religion is tolerated, Sunnah is old-fashioned and embarassing, Sharia is fanatical and extremist, and YOU ARE A POTENTIAL SINNER to outwardly support these things (because you might put other Muslims off Islam).

I'm not talking about rushing around waving a sword and screaming "Death to all kaffir!!" I'm talking about hesitatingly suggesting that maybe it might be a good thing to spend less time with drunken, foul-mouthed non-Muslims, for example.

Aaargh. May Allah grant me the wisdom, and wise friends, to help me sort out the extremists from the devout, the tolerant from the deviant. And to find role-models who please Him, and to be a good role-model myself eventually one day, Insh'Allah.

Sorry to rant so much. Feeling impotent, and pretty much a geographical minority of one person at the moment. It's hard to convince oneself that ones (new!) beliefs are correct when everybody around you condemns them. If it weren't for my SF family, I'd probably have concluded that humility demanded that I accept that other people around me are wiser than me (which they no doubt are, but maybe a little misguided??).

To summarize: should I conclude that the majority of Muslims around me (let's forget the non-Muslims for the moment) are not presenting a good example - with regards to perennialism, for instance? Wouldn't this be a judgmental and arrogant conclusion? And if all these "tolerant" Muslims are bad role models, who should a revert sister's role models be? The wives of our prophet , who lived and died so many centuries ago?

And -

How do you know the difference between tolerance/ good manners and perennialism?

[iqxdvjgmat]

much needed fatwa

quiet true, the way this fitnah has become so common ...

[MontyP@thon]

Assalamu alaykum

Bro Saad for your brief concise reply.

respected brother Al-Faruqi for your conscientiously detailed reply:



Somehow or other I'm going to have to re-learn almost everything from scratch - for the second time!

It is important to learn one's religion from authentic scholars and if there are no scholars available at least learn from their books. I once faced a similar situation where I had to re-evaluate the knowledge I got from "cultural Muslims" with the authentic knowledge from scholars, students of knowledge and their textual works. Don't despair by the will of Allah you will be learning much in a short time.

There are a few books in English out there who cover a great range of topics and are very beneficial for the common Muslim.

Beheshti Zewar by Hakimul Ummah Hadhrat Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (db)
Contains many many masail, explanations, examples in easy language covering all the topics the common Muslim needs to know from birth till death. (Hanafi)
There is a version for men (yellow cover) and a version for women (brown cover), the latter covers also a few subjects only relevant to the women back then in India. (The author died in 1943.)

(Check www.azharacademy.com to buy it)

The Reliance of the Traveller
Although a shafi'i fiqh book it covers many important topics for the common Muslims of our days (published 1991), just ignore the parts who are relevant only to followers of the Shafi'i madhhab.

The Creed of Imam Tahawi (Al-Aqidah al-Tahawiyya)
The agreed upon aqidah of the Ahlu-Sunnah, very beneficial. Even pseudo-salafis agree with it.

Read it online at central.mosque.com

Shamaail-Tirmidhi
Ahadiths with commentary/explanation by Shaikhul Hadith Zakariyya (db)
Download part 1 as pdf file
Download part 2 as pdf file


With these four books you will insha Allah incorporate a great amount of knowledge.

Could it be that one of the reasons that people are so relaxed about the beard issue in Turkey is because they HAVE to be, because otherwise they are branded anti-Ataturk traitors - forget the fact that they can'T work for the state, and all imams and muftis are forbidden to have beards? I'm trying to make husnu-zan here (good assumptions!!).

There is a lack of scholars upholding the truth and propagating deeni knowledge to the Muslim masses. Mustafa Kemal and his secularist followers have certainly a great share of responsibility in the current (religious) situation of the Turks as they executed many of the pious scholar of the Ottoman Khilafa.

Can the breakdown of one major Sunnah trigger the breakdown of many other Sunnah, Vajip and Fardh, like dominos? We see it indivivually - could it happen collectively as well, so that banning one Sunnah could trigger the abandoning and neglecting of many Sunnah and Fardh - even embarrassment about associating with people who say loudly "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim" frequently!!

I guess so, if the practice of sunna acts is constantly decreased until only fard/wajib is left, if the decrease continues no practice ('amal) is left at all.

It seems that I hear so many people say, in response to one of my "is so-and-so fardh/ haram/ halal" questions - "Well, look at ME, I only go to the mosque at Ramazan, it's a miracle that we even perform Salah nowadays, our Prophet predicted that these days would come, it's a sign of the times... May Allah forgive us *sigh*".... Like, "Hey, in an ideal world we'd all follow the Sunnah, but what can we do, this breakdown of Islam was pre-ordained, we're just victims!"

Again, it is very important to refer to knowledgeable Muslims for your questions. Although you may not have any scholars in your direct environment you have the Internet where you can write on Sunniforum or directly at the following websites:
www.askimam.org (Mufti Ebrahim Desai)
www.daruliftaa.com (Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari)
www.darulifta-deoband.com
www.alislam.co.za (Mufti A. Hoosen Elias)

etc..

It's got to the point where I hardly dare open my mouth to ask or talk about Sunnah or Sharia, for fear of appearing to be criticizing the entire nation, their government, their revered dead leaders, their traditions, their families, their role models, etc.

You should focus on protecting/educating yourself and your family first, after that if you still have time free you can still enlarge your activities. If every Muslim would focus to protect/educate himself and his family on Islam then this ummah would rise again in short time if Allah wills.

As for perennialism - here it's called "ilm-i siyaset", as far as I can see. Intentional and wise diplomacy. Not antagonizing the non-Muslims, the liberal Muslims, the atheists, the potential Muslims. Not "scaring people off" by growing beards or wearing hijab, not "putting people off our religion", not "giving the impression that we're fanatics/ uneducated/ ignorant/ anti-Western/ whatever." On a personal interaction level, not "risking being the cause of the person's nafs to rebel by advising good or warning against bad".

Isn't siyaset something like politics?

Practicing Islam doesn't mean we have to be unfriendly to the non-Muslims (kuffar), as long as they don't fight Islam and the Muslims we will treat them well as the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) did.

Nevertheless, the Muslims do not have a hidden agenda - we speak and practice the truth and we reject the unbelief of the non-Muslims openly. We don't alter or hide our religion to please the non-Muslims (kuffar), because they will never be satisfied with us until we completely leave Islam:


(Surat al-Baqara, 2:120)
And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
(Surat al-Baqara, 2:120)

So it seems that widespread perennialism results in a very strange, topsy-turvy kind of situation. Good is bad, religion is tolerated, Sunnah is old-fashioned and embarassing, Sharia is fanatical and extremist, and YOU ARE A POTENTIAL SINNER to outwardly support these things (because you might put other Muslims off Islam).

I'm not talking about rushing around waving a sword and screaming "Death to all kaffir!!" I'm talking about hesitatingly suggesting that maybe it might be a good thing to spend less time with drunken, foul-mouthed non-Muslims, for example.

The red marked argument is flawed.
Allah tells us that He has perfected this deen in Surat al-Maaida, 5:3:

Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

If one hides the real Islam in order to invite somebody to an (altered/fake) vesion of Islam, which in fact is not Islam anymore, then what's the use of doing this?

There is only one Islam, there is no "extremist" Islam nor is there a "modern" Islam or similar.

Islam in itself represents the middle way and the way of life which Allah has chosen for us.

If someone doesn't appreciate Islam or turns away from it because he doesn't like it then it is his own problem and not the fault of the practicing Muslim.

Aaargh. May Allah grant me the wisdom, and wise friends, to help me sort out the extremists from the devout, the tolerant from the deviant. And to find role-models who please Him, and to be a good role-model myself eventually one day, Insh'Allah.

The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) is our role-model. After him we have his family and his companions and those who follow them. (May Allah be pleased with them)

To summarize: should I conclude that the majority of Muslims around me (let's forget the non-Muslims for the moment) are not presenting a good example - with regards to perennialism, for instance? Wouldn't this be a judgmental and arrogant conclusion? And if all these "tolerant" Muslims are bad role models, who should a revert sister's role models be? The wives of our prophet , who lived and died so many centuries ago?

It is perfectly possible to be steadfast on Islam and still being friendly with those non-Muslims (kuffar) who do not fight us and Islam.

And -

How do you know the difference between tolerance/ good manners and perennialism?

Read the narrations (ahadith) about the adab and akhlaq of the Messenger of Allah in books like Shamaail Tirmidhi or Riyad as-Saliheen (by Imam Nawawi) or similar. (with commentary by a scholar)

And Allah knows best.

Wassalamu alaykum

[Reftsheette]

Nevertheless, the Muslims do not have a hidden agenda - we speak and practice the truth and we reject the unbelief of the non-Muslims openly. We don't alter or hide our religion to please the non-Muslims (kuffar), because they will never be satisfied with us until we completely leave Islam:

(...)

The red marked argument is flawed.
Allah tells us that He has perfected this deen in Surat al-Maaida, 5:3:

(...)

If one hides the real Islam in order to invite somebody to an (altered/fake) vesion of Islam, which in fact is not Islam anymore, then what's the use of doing this?

There is only one Islam, there is no "extremist" Islam nor is there a "modern" Islam or similar.

Islam in itself represents the middle way and the way of life which Allah has chosen for us.

If someone doesn't appreciate Islam or turns away from it because he doesn't like it then it is his own problem and not the fault of the practicing Muslim.

Completely agreed masha'Allah.

It's the inferiority complex and fear of those "modernist" Muslim the very main reason for both non-practising Muslims not to practise and for kuffar not to be interested in Islam.

They see those Muslims "afraid" and ashamed to show themselves as Muslims, they see them doing whatever possible to imitate kuffar, so they obviously think: "if they wanna be like us and are ashamed of their heritage, why should I be interested in Islam"?!

May Allah guide those "afraid Muslims" and put 'izzah in their hearts.

[2swasseneons]

www.alislam.co.za (Website of the Ameer of Sunniforum, Mufti Husain hafidhahullah)

Wait, wait, wait!!!!

Forgot a very important point:

Is this really Mufti Husain's website?!
Isn't it Mufti A Hoosen Elias's one?

[tofRobbroolve]

Wait, wait, wait!!!!

Forgot a very important point:

Is this really Mufti Husain's website?!
Isn't it Mufti A Hoosen Elias's one?

Oh, a misunderstanding. What's the correct website?

[joanasevilyboaz]

Oh, a misunderstanding. What's the correct website?

I didn't even know he owns an indipendent website; please fill me in as soon as you come to know the address,

[AnriXuinriZ]

However, I find it highly unlikely that a person would sincerely believe in Islam and not at least utter the shahada. If the belief is sincere, it wouldn't make sense not to say it. I don’t. One can believe that there is one God but Muhammad in not his Prophet or maybe one believes his prophecy was filtered through the prism of his own personality, circumstances and environment, making it a prophetic message, like all prophetic messages in my opinion, that have to be placed in context. To me the distinction between the Medina and the Mecca suras highlight this point. Or, maybe you fully stand behind the Shahada in your heart without compromise but external situations you relate to consciously and possibly unconsciously prevent you from declaring it.

It's your understanding that's faulty brother, not Islam. The verses for muslims are quite clear, it's you and those that follow your religion that choose to ignore. Like some people on this Board, Marco, I’ve noticed that you are both polite and presumptuous and maybe a little sarcastic. Anyway, I’m not a Christian.

One of the best helpers of the Prophet was his uncle abu talib,who helped Islam and the Muslims greatly in the earlier years but he died without iman. So although he will go in hell as he did not embrace Islam,we have been informed that the punishment he will get will be the least from all the inmates of hell.
So a Muslim that may have murdered many Muslims and created much conflict, as the historical record says Yazid did, is in a better position in the afterlife than Abu Talib. Is that just?

There are many reasons why a person may accept Islam in their heart but may not openly declare it. Then maybe Kuffar should not be tossed around so easily. And by tossed around, i dont mean physically tossing a Kuffar around, but the word being used, as I am sure that tossing Kuffar would be impolite even if it would satisfy some of the people on this site.

[Bxbhtjnr]

I don’t. One can believe that there is one God but Muhammad in not his Prophet or maybe one believes his prophecy was filtered through the prism of his own personality, circumstances and environment, making it a prophetic message, like all prophetic messages in my opinion, that have to be placed in context. To me the distinction between the Medina and the Mecca suras highlight this point. Or, maybe you fully stand behind the Shahada in your heart without compromise but external situations you relate to consciously and possibly unconsciously prevent you from declaring it.

"The Medina and the Mecca suras" obviously had a different context. In Makkah, Muslims were persecuted and living under the rule of the kuffar. In Madinah, Muslims had autonomy and shari'ah to govern them. I don't see the problem there because a lot of the revelation in the Qur'an is known to have been revealed upon the Prophet because of the situation - the circumstances of revelation known even to this day.

So a Muslim that may have murdered many Muslims and created much conflict, as the historical record says Yazid did, is in a better position in the afterlife than Abu Talib. Is that just? Yes, because Yazid still maintained his Islam. If he renounced it before he died or was working as a murtad, then his matter is with Allah alone because we have no right to be presumptuous of a person's intention and belief. Abu Talib did not accept Islam and the reason for that is only known to Allah as well.

A Muslim will also see hell so it isn't something that is restricted to non-Muslims.

Then maybe Kuffar should not be tossed around so easily. And by tossed around, i dont mean physically tossing a Kuffar around, but the word being used, as I am sure that tossing Kuffar would be impolite even if it would satisfy some of the people on this site. This is an illogical request. The word "kafir" or "kuffar" is used to refer to a disbeliever or disbelievers. The Qur'an calls non-Muslims as kuffar so why shouldn't we? Calling someone a kafir is the same as calling someone a disbeliever or a heathen. It is merely the opposite of Muslim.

[Lidawka]

Assalamu alaykum


It is important to learn one's religion from authentic scholars and if there are no scholars available at least learn from their books. I once faced a similar situation where I had to re-evaluate the knowledge I got from "cultural Muslims" with the authentic knowledge from scholars, students of knowledge and their textual works. Don't despair by the will of Allah you will be learning much in a short time.

There are a few books in English out there who cover a great range of topics and are very beneficial for the common Muslim.

Beheshti Zewar by Hakimul Ummah Hadhrat Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (db)
Contains many many masail, explanations, examples in easy language covering all the topics the common Muslim needs to know from birth till death. (Hanafi)
There is a version for men (yellow cover) and a version for women (brown cover), the latter covers also a few subjects only relevant to the women back then in India. (The author died in 1943.)

(Check www.azharacademy.com to buy it)

The Reliance of the Traveller
Although a shafi'i fiqh book it covers many important topics for the common Muslims of our days (published 1991), just ignore the parts who are relevant only to followers of the Shafi'i madhhab.

The Creed of Imam Tahawi (Al-Aqidah al-Tahawiyya)
The agreed upon aqidah of the Ahlu-Sunnah, very beneficial. Even pseudo-salafis agree with it.

Read it online at central.mosque.com

Shamaail-Tirmidhi
Ahadiths with commentary/explanation by Shaikhul Hadith Zakariyya (db)
Download part 1 as pdf file
Download part 2 as pdf file


With these four books you will insha Allah incorporate a great amount of knowledge.


There is a lack of scholars upholding the truth and propagating deeni knowledge to the Muslim masses. Mustafa Kemal and his secularist followers have certainly a great share of responsibility in the current (religious) situation of the Turks as they executed many of the pious scholar of the Ottoman Khilafa.


I guess so, if the practice of sunna acts is constantly decreased until only fard/wajib is left, if the decrease continues no practice ('amal) is left at all.


Again, it is very important to refer to knowledgeable Muslims for your questions. Although you may not have any scholars in your direct environment you have the Internet where you can write on Sunniforum or directly at the following websites:
www.askimam.org (Mufti Ebrahim Desai)
www.daruliftaa.com (Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari)
www.darulifta-deoband.com
www.alislam.co.za (Mufti A. Hoosen Elias)

etc..


You should focus on protecting/educating yourself and your family first, after that if you still have time free you can still enlarge your activities. If every Muslim would focus to protect/educate himself and his family on Islam then this ummah would rise again in short time if Allahs will.


Isn't siyaset something like politics?

Practicing Islam doesn't mean we have to be unfriendly to the non-Muslims (kuffar), as long as they don't fight Islam and the Muslims we will treat them well as the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) did.

Nevertheless, the Muslims do not have a hidden agenda - we speak and practice the truth and we reject the unbelief of the non-Muslims openly. We don't alter or hide our religion to please the non-Muslims (kuffar), because they will never be satisfied with us until we completely leave Islam:


(Surat al-Baqara, 2:120)
And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
(Surat al-Baqara, 2:120)


The red marked argument is flawed.
Allah tells us that He has perfected this deen in Surat al-Maaida, 5:3:

Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

If one hides the real Islam in order to invite somebody to an (altered/fake) vesion of Islam, which in fact is not Islam anymore, then what's the use of doing this?

There is only one Islam, there is no "extremist" Islam nor is there a "modern" Islam or similar.

Islam in itself represents the middle way and the way of life which Allah has chosen for us.

If someone doesn't appreciate Islam or turns away from it because he doesn't like it then it is his own problem and not the fault of the practicing Muslim.


The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) is our role-model. After him we have his family and his companions and those who follow them. (May Allah be pleased with them)


It is perfectly possible to be steadfast on Islam and still being friendly with those non-Muslims (kuffar) who do not fight us and Islam.


Read the narrations (ahadith) about the adab and akhlaq of the Messenger of Allah in books like Shamaail Tirmidhi or Riyad as-Saliheen (by Imam Nawawi) or similar. (with commentary by a scholar)

And Allah knows best.

Wassalamu alaykum

Jazakumullahu Khairan for all the replies, both brief and detailed. I thought I posted a short reply, but either the connection timed out or maybe it was deleted for some reason. Perhaps I should avoid mentioning certain political issues.

Brother Al-Faruqi, your conscientious advice and wisdom is always treasured. I've downloaded some of the documents you linked to, and have Insha'Allah taken your words on board. You are in my duaas.

Brother Umar, interesting perspective. But sadly I agree, especially about this weird inferiority complex. Such a paradox. Like the Kemalist (pro-Ataturk) Turk who wears the Turkish flag on his lapel but shuns Turkish coffee shops and drinks a cappuccino at Starbucks - really quite similar to the Muslim who swears his love for Allah and Allah's last Prophet but shuns the Sunnah. It's the embarassment that surprises me. You'd think that most people would get over that crippling fear of ridicule when they become adults. Anyway.

May Allah forgive us for all the sins we committed in ignorance, believing that He would be pleased with us for our misguided acts and beliefs.

[Natashasuw]

I was debating with a perrenialist once over this issue, and he presented the following:

Speaking of Ibn Taymiyya, it may be interesting to note that the perennialists opinions are no more heterodox than his, including Ibn Taymiyya's belief that the hellfire would come to an end, and yet he is still revered by many by the title of Shaykh al-Islam. A quote from Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's reflection on the passing of Dr. Lings may add some perspective these heterodox beliefs:

"While some of the views Dr. Lings has expressed in his insightful and brilliant writings are in contradistinction to what my own teachers taught me and what I believe, they are, however, rarified metaphysical considerations that are better pointed out as heterodoxies that fall into a category of opinion and interpretation that many of the great scholars of the past have held, including but not limited to Ibn ?Arabi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Rushd, al-Farabi, Imam az-Zamakhshari, and Ibn Sina".

He also later clarifies the opinion of the four madhabs. After stating that the opinions of the perennialists are based on highly nuanced interpretation he writes:

"And while the four schools of Sunni thought anathematise someone who does not adhere to this view, their position is based upon an outright rejection of the position and not those who use ta?wil to arrive at heterodox understandings without denying any meaning expressed in the Quran or the multiply-transmitted narrations of the Prophet, peace be upon him".

So according to this the perennialists would clearly not be charged with kufr and would at worst have entered into the arena of innovation. Islam is so much broader than we often think it to be.
.............................................

[but since that br. was a perrenialist himself, I'd reccomend that the quotes attributed to shaykh Hamza should be verified.

[xjNo4zvD]

Speaking of Ibn Taymiyya, it may be interesting to note that the perennialists opinions are no more heterodox than his, including Ibn Taymiyya's belief that the hellfire would come to an end, and yet he is still revered by many by the title of Shaykh al-Islam. .

What has Hafidh Ibn Taymiyya got to do with this? And where can we find this stance attributed to him? Is it mentioned in any of his books? Even his followers deny this opinion attributed to him.