[johnbeller]

Salamwalayykumm.
Bismillah.

TJS george, who?! Read on...
I won't bore you with the details and long posts.

1) I have been waiting since almost 2 weeks to start this thread, and wanted to start a little after Eid ul fitr, but bro mubarak's thread forced me to start it today.

Have been waiting to ask bro mubarak this question:

Its normal for anyone who crosses the speed limit to get a ticket, it happens all the time, but why is it when celebrities are ticketed, its all over the news?

Another question for brother mubarak:

Its always said that the Last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad suffered the most difficulties, faced hardships for the sake of Deen unlike any other Prophet [peace be upon them all] forget the ummah, why is that so when we all know many Prophets [peace be upon them all] and also Prophet Zakariyya [peace be upon him] was cut into two, and Prophet Yahya [peace be upon him] was beheaded, yet we say Prophet Muhammad's hardships outstrip them all.

Can brother mubarak tell me why so?

2) I said the above to explain that Scholars have a much bigger responsibility, anything they say or do carries much more connotations than what pluto does, because pluto is a layman.
2.1) I gave the Prophet [pbuh] example to illustrate the fact.
2.2) The reason the Prophet's [pbuh] hardships are counted and weighed more than any others is because of his personality - he is THAT big, he is Imam ul Ambiya [a.s], he is someone to whom the angel Jibra'il [a.s] came to 24,000 times !!!! why did he come so many times to only him and not to others? Because he is THAT big.

2.21)So even a scratch on his person [pbuh] would outweigh a trillion times a wali of Allah Subhanahu wa ta'la today getting killed in an air-crash.
2.22)He is the leader of the Prophets [peace be upon them all].
2.23)He is incomparable. So incomparable is he, that:
2.24)No other Prophet went as close to Allah SWT as the Last Prophet [pbuh] because he is THAT special.
2.25)So big is he that even Prophet Isa [a.s] is going to come as an ummati of the Last Prophet and follow the Last Prophet's shariah.
2.26)No other Prophet is going to enter Jannah until the Last Prophet [pbuh] sets foot in it.
2.27)No other Prophet will have the wherewithal to request Allah SWT to start judgment on judgment day.
2.28)Practicing upon just ONE SINGLE sunnah of the Last Prophet [pbuh] with steadfastness would get you rewards of a 100 martyrs - THAT's NOT BIG. THAT's HUMONGOUS. ONE HUNDRED MARTYR's.
2.29)Why was the Last Prophet [pbuh] sent last after all the Prophets [peace be upon them all] ? - Because the most important person always comes last [to a party for example].
2.30)So big is he that he [pbuh] gets to lead the prayer of the Prophets [peace be upon them all] in Miraaj.
2.31)Just imagine, Hadrath Adam, Nuh, Ibrahim, Dawood, Yusuf, Yunus, Ishaq, Isma'il, Musa, Isa [a.s] and every other Prophet, being lead in prayers by Prophet Muhammad [a.s] - it gives one a chill just reading that.

2.32)Why such maqaam granted by Allah SWT on the Last Prophet [pbuh] ?? Because he is THAT special, no, he is the personification of creme de la creme,

2.33)Personification of the word outstanding, personification of 'no words in the dictionary to really match his [pbuh] or explain his [pbuh] status before Allah SWT.

Leave all those things aside, and just concentrate on this:

His name is taken in the same sentence as that of............the creator, Lord of the Worlds, Lord of the Universe, Ultimate Owner of each and everything, Creator of:
a) The Phoenix galaxy which produces 740 brand new stars every year! You know what that means? Its producing 2 Stars, yeah baby, 2 stars EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! Here

Really, they should invent a new word to explain this sort of stuff.

b) Creator of a reservoir in space which houses the largest reservoir of water, how large? = to 140 trillion times all the water in the world's ocean !!! Okayyyy, lets put that in perspective, no lets not 'coz we can't.

And know what dear, there are billions of such stories just waiting to be discovered. Yeah.

Now for the sweet part: All of that means absolutely NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG, NOUGHT, NADA NADA NADA to...the ALMIGHTY ALLAH Subhanahu wa ta'la. All of that is NOT EVEN EQUIVALENT TO A WING OF A MOSQUITO.

And to think that Allah SWT has created a creature to eat all of these things in a single morsal. [I don't remember its name right now]

That... my boy, is just a small ultra minuscule example of...

Allahu Akbar!

Of the greatness of Allah SWT.

and for Him, the Last Prophet is special, very very special, so special that the word special is misnomer to really explain his [pbuh] value before the Almighty. In fact, there is no equivalent word to explain his [pbuh] status.

If for the Creator, the Almighty Allah himself, the Prophet [pbuh] is soooooooooooo beloved, imagine how must WE treat his [pbuh] personality. Just imagine.

and for Him, the Last Prophet [pbuh] is soooooooooooooooo dear, that until the day of Qiyamah, the kalimah will be incomplete without taking the Prophet's name [pbuh] - which means Allah's name and Prophet Muhammad's name is in the same line, in the same sentence. How beloved must be the Prophet [pbuh] to the Creator of the worlds can be understood from this fact alone.And HY comes and talks of dante in the same breadth he talks of the Prophet [pbuh].

I have been part of this dajjal dante's discussion before and it came or I recalled it about 2 weeks back when the Hamza Yusuf [HY] topic was again discussed and kept bumping up.

How have I been part of this? You see bhai, January 1st 2000 of the Indian Express newspaper carried that piece of **** that was written by dante 700 years ago, and was quoted by another dajjal - TJS George, one of India's senior columnist / journalist. Wiki him.

Where's the proof, son?

Here's the proof, daddy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cjesa/message/4316

Date sent: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:53:21 +0500
From: F

Newspaper article triggers violence in Bangalore
from India Abroad News Service

New Delhi, Jan 3 - Downtown Bangalore witnessed violent scenes as a large
group of Muslims laid siege to a newspaper office on Sunday, setting a
vehicle owned by the publication on fire to protest an allegedly
blasphemous article.

The Muslims were angered by an article that appeared in the Saturday
edition of The New Indian Express which, according to them, "insults" Islam
and Prophet Mohammed, press reports said. The article by veteran journalist
T.J.S. George quoted controversial observations on the Prophet in Dante's
famous work 'Inferno'.

The mob, which started gathering outside the office at about 2.00 p.m.,
set fire to a lorry carrying 72 rolls of newsprint and also burnt several
copies of The New Indian Express.

Prominent community leaders refused to accept an unqualified apology from
the paper, instead demanding George's arrest on charges of hurting Muslim
religious sentiments and spreading communal hatred. They also demanded a
personal apology from George.

Two photojournalists working for Kannada newspapers were reportedly
injured in the violence and their equipment was snatched from them. Police
had to use teargas shells and resort to a baton charge to disperse the
crowd. Reports from Bangalore gave a varied picture of the mob's strength,
ranging from 400 to 1,000.

The protesters also wanted a ban on Dante's 'Inferno' saying it insults
Prophet Mohammed, The Asian Age newspaper reported. Anees Ali Khan, an
advocate who participated in the protest, was quoted as saying: "We came to
know about Dante's book only after The New Indian Express published the
report. Since Dante's book speaks ill of the holy Prophet, we want a ban on
his book."

"Most of the protesters here do not know who Dante is and what book he has
written," Khan told the paper. "But we are angry with The New Indian
Express because it has carried comments objectionable to Muslim society,"
he added.

The unruly scenes took place despite the fact that the paper on Sunday
published a clarification after receiving protests from readers on
Saturday. Some of the demonstrators were incensed by the fact that such an
article was published during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Violence spilt over to other parts of the city when a group of Muslim
youths threw stones at stores in a bid to shut them down.

Police has reportedly ringed The New Indian Express office and will keep
vigil in the area till at least January 5 to prevent further violence.
--India Abroad News Service (Credit Mandatory) Who led the protests, you ask?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...n-Makkah-today

This scholar^ and others.
Note: Its a 12 year old incident, I searched the archives of I Express but they have removed it, but references are all over the net.

Note: Indian Express, the kuffar backed media, APOLOGIZED.
TJS GEORGE WENT UNDERGROUND.

Now I ask, if dante is quoted by [in sarcasm or not] a kuffar dajjal, we protest, we make a hue and cry about it.

But, if its quoted by a well known 'celebrity' Scholar who can influence thinking of people around him, we should have Husn e Zann, we should not condemn it, WHY, may I ask?

We ACTUALLY need to condemn this act of HY more, much much more - HOW could OUR man, a Scholar at that, say such a damn thing? Because, HY is not a pluto, he is not an XYZ, so how could HE do such a thing? How could a merits student FAIL SO BADLY? We think like that, don't we? Jaguars can, Rovers can, but HOW can a Toyota breakdown in the middle of the road?

Never in my life have I heard of a Scholar joking or using sarcasm regards to the Last Prophet [pbuh] - Inna Lillah, may Allah SWT guide us and keep us on guidance. Ameen.

Remember: The idea of making a joke about something is to make it socially acceptable in an enjoyable manner. So, the next thing we know - its OK with all of that - Inna Lillah Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon.

May Allah SWT keep us away from Fitnah, ameen. The way forward:

Is HY human?
Of-course he is.
So its human to make error [although strictly speaking, this is a huge error], the way forward for him is to apologize and move forward. My humble opinion.
Do I need to write about Harun Yahya after all this?
His scholarship on many matters nobody can deny.
Again he is looked up-to.
As a Scholar.
Have we made takfir of him?
No, we haven't.
We are only saying, his hobnobbing with women is wrong.
And because he is looked up-to as an 'Islamic' personality, his amal's will also be copied, if he is lax with regards to matters regarding women, then we too will be influenced sooner rather than later.

Lets hope we all are guided and kept on guidance for-ever, summa aameen.

Okay, here's a question for all of you.... - Why is it we are commanded to recite Surah Fatiha in every SINGLE NAMAZ, in every rakah? Whats the hikmah the top Ulamah say is behind this?

I couldn't keep the post any shorter, not with having to explain a little about the greatness of the Prophet [peace be upon him]

Humble suggestion: Ask Hamza Yusuf to read Hayatus Sahabah to deeply understand Dawah. How EVEN da'ees can go wrong, how the Sahabah [ra] approached the work of dawah and related matter - he may have already done it, but I'm only suggesting. Such a work has never been produced before and still has no match.

We all make mistakes, lets not take sides. The truth is clear from falsehood.

Harun Yahya is definitely one of us. We disagree with his actions, nothing else.
Peace.

Anything wrong I have said is from me, and all good is from the Almighty Allah SWT.
This small effort is for the sake of Allah SWT.

[phinno13]

[Seerseraxlils]

We ACTUALLY need to condone this act of HY more

I think you meant condemn, so you might want to change it.

[KahiroSamo]

I think you meant condemn, so you might want to change it.

Maybe he meant to write condemn but a rahmani wind took him and he actually typed condone?

[datingcrew]

I think you meant condemn, so you might want to change it.

Maybe he meant to write condemn but a rahmani wind took him and he actually typed condone?

its corrected.
If there was a rehmani wind, SunniSeeker wouldn't have read it and pointed it out, or even if he had read it, he wouldn't have noticed ;-)
I'm at peace.

[P3bWjm1j]

its corrected.
If there was a rehmani wind, SunniSeeker wouldn't have read it and pointed it out, or even if he had read it, he wouldn't have noticed ;-)
I'm at peace.

May I ask if someone has specifically asked Shaykh Hamza Yusuf to clarify his remarks on this subject?
Perhaps in that clarification, an apology may have been made. I'm just wondering if he is aware of the consternation his remarks have made.

[rolex-buy]

its corrected.
If there was a rehmani wind, SunniSeeker wouldn't have read it and pointed it out, or even if he had read it, he wouldn't have noticed ;-)
I'm at peace.

Assalamu alykum Brother Pluto

I thank Allah for brothers like you who are around to defend the TRuth and Haq. please keep up the good work. now if we can get bother Muadh back

[curcercanty]

brother pluto,can u give a link to these remarks ofthe sheikh ?

[SodeSceriobia]

May I ask if someone has specifically asked Shaykh Hamza Yusuf to clarify his remarks on this subject?
Perhaps in that clarification, an apology may have been made. I'm just wondering if he is aware of the consternation his remarks have made.

My post has more to do with people having husn e zann with regards to Hamza Yusuf even after he said those things, my post is in address to it.
Bigger the mistake, the apology has to be a public one too on a public platform, YouTube for example.
He didn't joke about pluto, did he? He joked about a personality [pbuh] in whose sadaqah pluto was created.
Honestly, I don't want to rub it in.
I don't want to create any more animosity, just wanted to show the grave-ness of the matter.

[JosephNF]

My post has more to do with people having husn e zann with regards to Hamza Yusuf even after he said those things, my post is in address to it.
Bigger the mistake, the apology has to be a public one too on a public platform, YouTube for example.
He didn't joke about pluto, did he? He joked about a personality [pbuh] in whose sadaqah pluto was created.
Honestly, I don't want to rub it in.
I don't want to create any more animosity, just wanted to show the grave-ness of the matter.

That's fine Pluto, but I'm just wondering if an apology has been specifically asked for.
For example, I may insult my mother, but I may not even realise I have insulted my mother until she tells me how and explains why. And then i'd apologise. That's all I'm asking. Has an apology been specifically asked for with the grounds for the apology established.

[zlopikanikanzax]

May I ask if someone has specifically asked Shaykh Hamza Yusuf to clarify his remarks on this subject?
Perhaps in that clarification, an apology may have been made. I'm just wondering if he is aware of the consternation his remarks have made.

He made a joke about how he thought about creating a ride like in Dante's poem. And somehow this has been implied that he meant something. Actions are by intentions, since we cannot open peoples hearts to see intentions we cannot imply. If we imply something it might be that we are projecting our own ideas. We are taught to judge by the apparent and the outward actions....outwardly he did not say anything either. And even then we should try to see the good. HY praises the rasul and displays great love for him ...but if we want to find fault we will not look at all of this, instead we will look at 'the joke' and make it stick. When a mufti makes a fatwa if wrong they gets one reward, if correct they get two rewards. But on the basis of the wrong fatwa we will condemn them.

People envy others, and this will lead them to find faults in them. Scholars are not above criticism...but please be fair, and honest with yourself first before criticising...make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.


Apart from that yes the Rasul is to be loved more than anything else other than Allah for eman to be perfect. This love is only known to Allah and we should not try to find fault with others eman.

Ibn Arabi (RA) tells a story of how he himself had enmity against a man who disliked Abu Madyan (RA) his sheikh. One night the Rasul came in Ibn Arabis dream to ask him why he disliked a man who had love of the Rasul and Allah? Ibn Arabi apologized and the next morning told the man he used to have enmity for about the dream, whereupon they made up.

[replicaypu]

Assalamu alykum Brother Pluto

I thank Allah for brothers like you who are around to defend the TRuth and Haq. please keep up the good work. now if we can get bother Muadh back

bhaijaan, please make a silent dua for me.

brother pluto,can u give a link to these remarks ofthe sheikh ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ZWl...endscreen&NR=1
Actually, its all over the net, type hamza yusuf dante

[JohnVK]

That's fine Pluto, but I'm just wondering if an apology has been specifically asked for.
For example, I may insult my mother, but I may not even realise I have insulted my mother until she tells me how and explains why. And then i'd apologise. That's all I'm asking. Has an apology been specifically asked for with the grounds for the apology established.

Bhai, this has to do with your siblings knowing fully well what you did was wrong and yet not condemning you because they think you are their cute little brother.

[Edqpdnuu]

Bhai, this has to do with your siblings knowing fully well what you did was wrong and yet not condemning you because they think you are their cute little brother.

I've seen and heard Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's voice quiver and cry when mentioning the RasoolulAllah such is his love and admiration for him. Perhaps he has erred, perhaps he has changed (I don't know that), but i doubt he is aware of the consternation his remarks have made. It's highly unrealistic brother for him to make a video'd apology without it being asked for. But Inshallah I am sure he would issue a clarification if asked to do so.

[SusanSazzios]

I do not accept HY as a scholar, unless the real scholars behind the fascade come forth and are actually accepted. I do not accept HY presented as AO or even the other way around, as a scholar(s).

There is way bigger issues at play with HY/AO than the women. May Allah forgive me and guide me to the Truth if I'm wrong and may He protect us from what I see, hear and sense in my heart as unmistakable offenses.

[Abnorttrano]

Knowing what I know about shaykh hamza yusuf-he would be very happy that you are attacking him,
as your attack insha'allah is purely a manifestation of the muhabbah of the blessed prophet(saw),
whose love poems shaykh hamza yusuf has popularised so that young lads who were going on jamaat like me and never knew
anything about love of the Prophet(saw) except the six points, now know to sing the Burdah also(which was inicidentally a desire of Mawlana Ilyas also (rahmatullahi Alayhi)

When Mawlana Tahanwi(ra) heard of the death of imam ahmad rida, he defeneded his attack on him saying he should have done it
as he did it out of perceived love for the Prophet(saw)
He didnt know that Mawlana Tahanwi (ra) was not a bay-adab- but possibly was functioning at a conceptual level not available to imam ahmad rida.
Something similar happens here.

[Zvssxstw]

Knowing what I know about shaykh hamza yusuf-he would be very happy that you are attacking him,
as your attack insha'allah is purely a manifestation of the muhabbah of the blessed prophet(saw),
whose love poems shaykh hamza yusuf has popularised so that young lads who were going on jamaat like me and never knew
anything about love of the Prophet(saw) except the six points, now know to sing the Burdah also(which was inicidentally a desire of Mawlana Ilyas also (rahmatullahi Alayhi)

When Mawlana Tahanwi(ra) heard of the death of imam ahmad rida, he defeneded his attack on him saying he should have done it
as he did it out of perceived love for the Prophet(saw)
He didnt know that Mawlana Tahanwi (ra) was not a bay-adab- but possibly was functioning at a conceptual level not available to imam ahmad rida.
Something similar happens here.

Don't use the jama't as a bait.
Even the barelvis have good in-fact great love poems.
The 'sweet madina' nasheed grows on you
I think I should listen to it now...
'6 -number- nahin hain, 6 samandar hain' - direct quote from markaz.
Fi Amanillah.

[Janarealiti]

I do not accept HY as a scholar, unless the real scholars behind the fascade come forth and are actually accepted. I do not accept HY presented as AO or even the other way around, as a scholar(s).

There is way bigger issues at play with HY/AO than the women. May Allah forgive me and guide me to the Truth if I'm wrong and may He protect us from what I see, hear and sense in my heart as unmistakable offenses.

Hmm... sis, you should let us know. I don't know him more than his 'general' books.
Do it if you have time, or when you have time, in parts maybe...

[Arr34ston]

Sorry for posting that nasheed - the matter at hand is clearly a very serious one.

@Abu Hamza, I have the exact link of the part of the lecture where he said that - but I don't want to paste the link, because even reading that is disgusting and please don't call him a shaykh in the same way you address Maulana Zulfiqar db as Shaykh Zulfiqar...

[Anteneprorid]

Allah forbid, if such a thing had been said by an Asian Scholar, this forum would be burning alive.
I see all this husn e zann is reserved for the....

You can take back South Asia from the British [Gora's - Whites], but you can't take back the adoration of the Gora-sahib's from the South Asians.

Wherever they live

Insecurity at work™